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Seismitoad (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SuperJOCKE, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Seismitoad

    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad is a rather unique Water-type Pokemon in that it can be played in a variety of different ways. Seismitoad can go on the offensive as a rain sweeper or go on a more defensive route with its good typing and set up Stealth Rock for its team. It is also a good check to several Water-types in the tier by utilizing Water Absorb and Substitute. Seismitoad's typing comes with several benefits: Seismitoad can't be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, so its rain sweep will not be ruined, and while on the defensive, it gives Seismitoad good resistances to some of the most common offensive types, such as Rock and Fire. However, a mediocre movepool and average stats bring Seismitoad down a bit. It doesn't hit super hard with its moves unless they're boosted by Life Orb and rain, while its coverage is limited to Sludge Wave and Grass Knot to hit Water- and Grass-types that resist Seismitoad's Water-type STAB. A lack of reliable recovery also makes it hard for Seismitoad to take repeated hits, while other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Slowking give it huge competition due to that reason. All in all, Seismitoad's unique assets in the roles it plays is definitely something to take into consideration.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 104 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad makes for a solid defensive Pokemon due to its impressive bulk and good typing. Its Water / Ground typing gives it several good resistances and two useful immunities in combination with Water Absorb, allowing Seismitoad to check various threats in the tier such as Kabutops and Entei, while even walling the likes of Magneton and Lanturn. This gives Seismitoad many good opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Scald is a great STAB for any defensive Water-type, as the high burn chance will greatly improve Seismitoad's survivability. Earth Power does not only provide a great secondary STAB move, allowing Seismitoad to hit Pokemon that resist Scald like Druddigon and Slowking harder, but is also crucial for its ability to deal with Lanturn so well. Toxic rounds out this set by giving Seismitoad a solid option for dealing with defensive threats such as Alomomola and the aforementioned Slowking a lot easier, as Earth Power will never be enough to beat them.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad's options are rather limited to what's already been mentioned. However, Knock Off can be useful to make Eviolite and Leftovers users easier to handle. Knock Off will be mostly used against Ferroseed and Tangrowth, but the occasional Misdreavus and Mandibuzz can be severely neutered by it. Protect can also be useful, as it can help Seismitoad recover more HP with Leftovers while it works great in tandem with Toxic when it comes to stalling the opponent. With the given spread, Seismitoad is able to outspeed Adamant Aggron with max Speed while it ties with Steel trapper Magneton that aim for the same Speed mark. Seismitoad can use a faster EV spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe to outspeed certain Pokemon so it can avoid taking an unnecessary hit before dealing one itself, while still retaining most of its bulk. 104 Speed EVs allows Seismitoad to outspeed neutral base 55 Speed Pokemon with max Speed, such as Modest Omastar, Adamant Bouffalant, and Adamant Crawdaunt. This is particularly useful for Pokemon like Omastar, as it means Seismitoad can KO or severely cripple them before they can set up. Seismitoad is also able to outspeed Qwilfish with no Speed investment, while hitting the same Speed as Qwilfish with 16 Speed EVs, as they aim to outspeed the same Pokemon. Seismitoad can also be specially defensive, but Grass is a commonly seen special attacking type meaning Seismitoad will be 2HKOed at worst by a number of Pokemon, so it's not recommended.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad's typing does bring a 4x weakness to Grass-type moves, so Pokemon that can deal with threats that use moves of this type make for great teammates. Fire-types, Emboar, Moltres, Entei, and Magmortar to be more specific, make for great answers to Grass-type Pokemon. They also pair well with Seismitoad as it can take care of most Water-types with ease, especially Kabutops, the most threatening one. Magmortar gets a special mention as it is immune to Spore and Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, making it the most effective answer to Grass-types like Amoonguss and Tangrowth. Adding a Grass-type to your team gives you a nice Fire / Water / Grass core; Amoonguss can become a good compliment defensively, while Lilligant gives you a more offensive option. Sap Sipper Pokemon, most notably Bouffalant and Miltank, can also help against Grass-types and other Pokemon using Grass-type moves. Miltank also compliments Seismitoad's physical defense with a specially defensive set. However, an offensive version of Miltank works just as well. Sawsbuck is another good candidate, especially since it can be a part of a Fire / Water / Grass core while being able to pass its Attack boosts with Baton Pass.</p>

    <p>While Seismitoad is bulky, there are a few Pokemon that can break through it with brute force. Gallade, Medicham, and Hitmonlee are Fighting-types that can do just that. This means Spiritomb pairs well with Seismitoad, especially a more specially defensive version, as it can break down these Fighting-types with relative ease. Spiritomb is also good at dealing with Slowking, and even Amoonguss if Spiritomb uses a RestTalk set, two Pokemon that can give Seismitoad a lot of trouble. Escavalier and Durant fall into this category as well. Again, Fire-types are the easiest solution, more specifically Choice Scarf Emboar. Choice Scarf Electric-types, in this case Manectric and Rotom-C who can run Fire-type moves, handle Durant as well. Using either of the three mentioned Pokemon makes Sceptile easier to deal with as well. When it comes to Pokemon that benefit from Seismitoad's support, it's pretty straightforward. Grass-types that fear the likes of Entei will greatly appreciate Seismitoad's typing. The same goes for physically frail Pokemon and Fire-types that fear Kabutops, and Steel- and Water-types that have trouble with Magneton and Lanturn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Sludge Wave
    move 4: Rain Dance / Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Seismitoad's best bet on the offensive. Seismitoad as a rain sweeper is pretty straightforward, but it has a key difference from other Swift Swimmers. Its Ground typing makes Seismitoad immune to Electric-type moves. Not only does it remove a weakness to the type, but also keeps Seismitoad from being paralyzed by Thunder Wave, something that would otherwise stop any Pokemon from sweeping through a team. Hydro Pump gives Seismitoad much-needed power, as Surf does not cut it. This is the move Seismitoad will most likely use the most in the rain, as it will OHKO nearly everything that doesn't resist it. Earth Power adds a secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use, and it will dent most things that resist Hydro Pump. Sludge Wave rounds out Seismitoad's coverage, as it allows Seismitoad to hit Grass-types that resist its STAB moves. Sludge Wave will OHKO every Grass-type bar Amoonguss; the chances of Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C surviving it are really slim. When it comes to Seismitoad's final move, it really depends on how the rest of the team is shaped, although it shouldn't matter much which move you pick. Rain Dance is the slightly more useful choice. Rain Dance allows Seismitoad to keep its sweep going without switching to another Pokemon; however, Grass Knot does allow Seismitoad to hit certain threats, such as Slowking and Poliwrath, slightly harder than with Earth Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf can be used over Hydro Pump for a more consistent move with more PP, but the power drop is noticeable as OHKOs against the likes of Escavalier are turned into 2HKOs, so keep that in mind. Focus Blast can be used as a faster way to take down Ferroseed, as it is immune to Sludge Wave. However, Ferroseed can't do much back to Seismitoad as Thunder Wave doesn't affect it and Seismitoad resists Gyro Ball, so Earth Power is usually enough to break through Ferroseed. When it comes to teammates, Seismitoad only needs help with a few things. The first are teammates that can set up rain. Uxie is one of the more consistent Pokemon to choose from, as it can usually set up rain twice or more thanks to its great bulk. On top of that, Uxie can also set up Stealth Rock. Rotom-C can also be effective in this role, as it helps in covering Seismitoad's Grass weakness while also taking care of Pokemon such as Poliwrath and Alomomola with little effort. Mesprit is a slightly less bulky version of Uxie, but brings a more offensive presence to the field with its higher attacking stats. Druddigon pairs well with Seismitoad as well, as its Dragon typing gives it a nice resistance to Grass-type moves while also having the ability to set up Stealth Rock that will help Seismitoad OHKO Escavalier with Hydro Pump in the rain. Druddigon can help in taking care of opposing Druddigon as well, as Seismitoad is only able to 2HKO them with Earth Power. Escavalier not only packs a nice Grass resistance, but has the ability to reliably take care of Slowking, one of the most problematic Pokemon for Seismitoad. Absol and Spiritomb are also good at this, but lack the same type synergy with Seismitoad. Other Electric-types besides Rotom-C, such as Manectric, Galvantula, and Rotom, make for good teammates as well, as they can easily deal with most Water-types in the tier, most notably Alomomola and Slowking.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Water Absorb and Seismitoad's good typing to make it a great check to Water-types, as well as a lure to Grass-types and other Pokemon that would naturally switch in on Seismitoad. Substitute allows Seismitoad to avoid any kind of status that might hinder it, while it also acts as a buffer against attacks that would KO it, giving Seismitoad a chance to potentially KO Pokemon such as Sceptile and Moltres. Setting up a Substitute isn't impossible either, as Seismitoad will cause a lot of switching against Pokemon like Lanturn, Magneton, and Kabutops. Earth Power will be Seismitoad's most useful STAB move, as with it Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops, Magneton, and Omastar, while dealing a good chunk of damage to Pokemon such as Lanturn. Surf provides a great secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use against Pokemon that resist Earth Power, and will hit Pokemon like Entei and Steelix a bit harder. Sludge Bomb gives Seismitoad something to hit Grass-types, mostly slower ones such as Tangrowth, but it can also help KO faster ones such as Lilligant and Sceptile if Seismitoad has a Substitute up. A 30% chance to poison the foe is really nice too, as it can make Pokemon like Slowking easier to deal with. However, Toxic is a better option if you want a more reliable way to deal with Pokemon such as Alomomola, Cryogonal, and the aforementioned Slowking. This does, however, make Seismitoad more susceptible to Grass-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydro Pump can be used over Surf for a more powerful STAB move, but beware of the lowered accuracy. In the same vein, Sludge Wave can be used over Sludge Bomb for slightly more power, but Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison the foe is preferred over Sludge Wave's 10% and five points higher Base Power. The EV spread and the Timid nature are used to allow Seismitoad to outspeed Adamant Kabutops by one point. This makes it so that Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops before taking any unnecessary damage. As this set is meant to be used as a way to deal with Water-types, Pokemon that have trouble with them should be paired with Seismitoad. Durant has serious trouble with Qwilfish as its Intimidate and Thunder Wave can severely cripple Durant. Seismitoad should have no trouble KOing Qwilfish with Earth Power, giving Durant a big opening for a sweep. Seismitoad can also take care of Steelix, another Pokemon that gives Durant trouble. Fire-types that have trouble with Kabutops and Lanturn, such as Entei and Moltres, appreciate Seismitoad's help. Seismitoad should be immune to or resist both Pokemon's commonly used moves, and can proceed to KO them with ease; Lanturn might be using Ice Beam at times. Slowking is also a common switch-in to Seismitoad, meaning that Seismitoad can either poison it with Toxic or switch to a teammate such as Spiritomb, Escavalier, or Absol with no worries and trap Slowking with Pursuit mindgames. Seismitoad will also lure out Grass-types, which could give Fire-types, Pokemon such as Druddigon and Escavalier, and Sap Sipper Pokemon like Sawsbuck a free switch in and an opportunity to set up. Grass-types such as Lilligant can also take advantage of this.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad's other options are rather limited, especially those that it can make good use of. Hidden Power Ice can also work to hit Druddigon and other Dragon-types for super effective damage while still covering Grass-types. However, the power difference between it and Sludge Wave is huge, and Hidden Power Ice doesn't hit Druddigon much harder than Earth Power. Icy Wind can also be used, but it's a better option for the Substitute and defensive sets, as it is more of a supportive move than an offensive one. Hidden Power Fire can help the physically defensive set by hitting Escavalier and Durant for super effective damage. However, fitting it onto Seismitoad can be quite hard, and if you forgo a specific move, a teammate must compensate for the loss of coverage or answers to certain threats. Venoshock can be a solid option if Seismitoad has Toxic Spikes support, as it will become significantly more powerful than Sludge Wave if the opponent is poisoned. However, this can become a huge gamble, and it makes it so that Rotom-C can easily revenge kill Seismitoad unless it has been poisoned by Toxic, as Rotom-C is immune to Toxic Spikes. To compensate for Seismitoad's lack of recovery, Rest and Sleep Talk can be used, but much like Hidden Power Fire, it can be hard fit these two moves onto the set without losing crucial options. Refresh can be easier to fit onto the defensive set, however, as it can remove any unwanted status from Seismitoad, increasing its longevity. Lastly, Seismitoad can go on a physically offensive route as well with its equally high base Attack. Seismitoad has a good variety of moves to choose from, such as Earthquake, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Bounce, and Rock Slide, but it has no physical Water-type STAB. This makes a physically oriented Swift Swimmer implausible, so its best bet is either a Choice Band or Life Orb set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Slowking is one of the best answers to Seismitoad. Even if Seismitoad uses Grass Knot it will have a hard time taking Slowking down. However, Slowking will have a harder time against the Substitute and defensive sets, as Toxic will quickly wear it down and it will most likely need Toxic itself to beat Seismitoad if Slowking doesn't run Psychic or Psyshock. Most Grass-types will more or less beat Seismitoad. The more offensively inclined Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C will have no trouble beating the slower sets with their super effective STABs, but will most likely lose to the Swift Swim sweeper. However, if the rain is stopped, all three will outspeed Seismitoad, so waiting out the rain can definitely help. Tangrowth can deal with the defensive version with relative ease, but it will most likely be hit by Toxic before taking Seismitoad down, severely crippling it. Amoonguss is a 100% guaranteed counter to any Seismitoad. Amoonguss's Poison typing makes it immune to Toxic so it can't be stalled out, while it is only hit super effectively by Hidden Power, making it near impossible to take down for Seismitoad. The same applies for Roselia, as it shares the same typing with Amoonguss and has great bulk thanks to Eviolite. Also, Pokemon that use Grass-type moves for coverage, such as Moltres and Manectric with Hidden Power Grass and Galvantula with Giga Drain, will easily OHKO Seismitoad. The only exception is Choice Scarf Manectric's Hidden Power Grass, as it will surprisingly only do 95% damage at most to defensive Seismitoad. Druddigon can be a real problem for Seismitoad, regardless of the set. Offensive Seismitoad can only hope to 2HKO Druddigon with Earth Power, while defensive Seismitoad can only hope for Scald burning Druddigon as it is easily 2HKOed by Outrage. Escavalier and Durant are very similar. They can 2HKO defensive Seismitoad, but they are both OHKOed by Hydro Pump in rain; however, Stealth Rock is needed for Escavalier. Other Pokemon that can use brute force to break through Seismitoad include, but are not limited to, Gallade, Medicham, Hitmonlee, and Bouffalant, if they can avoid being burned by Scald.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2013
  2. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Alright, Seismitoad.

    Regarding the EV spread for the defensive set. They both aim to outspeed key threats to take them out before they can hit you. I personally prefer the second one since allows Seismitoad to deal with more Pokémon more effectively.

    The 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe spread aims to outspeed all base 55 Speed Pokémon with max Speed and neutral nature (see Modest Omastar, Adamant Boufflant, and Adamant Crawdaunt). No Speed EVs Owilfish is outspeed too. Seimsitoad also ties with 16 Speed EVs Qwilfish since they aim for the same Speed stat.

    But if you want Seismitoad to be bulkier and take hits better, a 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
    spread is the most beneficial one. Seismitoad now outspeeds max Speed Aggron, meaning it can take it out before getting hit by EQ. Also ties with the Steel Trapper Magneton, who aim for the same Speed stat as well. The difference is 9 points, which is not huge.

    If that's still not good enough, 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe allows Seismitoad to outspeed max Speed Adamant Crustle.

    And as always, I might have forgotten teammates and checks & counters, so help with that is appreciated if you think I missed one or two.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  3. Hot N Cold

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    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe


    This set is the best Seismitoad set in my opinion, is an average between both sets, the RD one and the another defensive, this set have a good investment in SpA and Speed while have a little bulk / leftovers and Water Absorb that makes a good switch against another waters and checking this, since the Rain Dance is very powerful but is glass cannon, setupp Rain first, lost health because Life Orb. While, in the another hand, the bulky one after that you put Stealth Rock is more deadweight in terms of offense pressence and losing momentum, also too being more susceptible to be poison because lacks to Substitute. This set working, making a free Substitute in a lot of RU threats like: Kabutops, Qwilfish, Alomomola, Steelix, Aggron, Volt / tbolt Rotom-C or Rotom-N, Lanturn, Klinkang etc
    This work good because Seismitoad have a great type and a decent coverage to make this effective.

    Surf and Earth Power are both moves necessary same Substitute, and the last is to lure stuff like Tangrowth / Slowking / Sceptile / Cryogonal. The only really problem for this set are the same threats for any Seismitoad stuff like Roselia or Amoonguss.

    Probably i should to add for this set in AC: Hydro Pump like another option to Surf and Sludge Wave. But i think that is better 90 BP + 30% to poison than 95 BP + 10% to poison.

    What you think guys about this??
  4. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    I've already told you on IRC (but to everyone else), I'll try this out for a bit later and then I'll get back to you. Seems interesting to say the least.
  5. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I think hnc's set should get a spot in the analysis. I'm not really sure about the set order, but I don't think that the rain sweeper should get the first set because of how uncommon rain is and how you kinda need to use a rain team to use that set.
  6. Hot N Cold

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    [Other Options]
    On this section i just should quit Sleep Talk and Acua Ring i think that are a pretty bad options.
    Just move Surf like another possible option at RD set in AC, same with Protect to Physically defensive.

    This section should be more focused around:
    - Choice Specs
    - Icy Wind or Hidden Power Ice / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    - Refresh
    - Venoshock + Toxic Spikes mention
    - Physically oriented movepool: Earthquake, Ice Punch, Drain etc
  7. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    I personally think that the rain sweeper set is better than the above set, but since it needs a rain team, I guess it should be second at best.

    But I'm still unsure if this Substitute set is better than the SR set. It works well, but sometimes it does absolutely nothing for me. Think I need more time.

    Surf is not worth it. It's too weak.

    I also don't know what you're getting at with that list of options since all of those already in the skeleton, except Specs, Venoshock, and HP Fire. Focus Blast is in the AC of rain sweeper set already. Keeping SleepTalk for now as well; this is Other Options after all. Adding the other stuff though.
  8. Oglemi

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    Add HnC's Substitute set and consider this QC Approved 1/3
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Yeah just add HotnCold's Substitute set and this should be ready for writeup

    QC Approved 2/3
  10. SuperJOCKE

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    Done and done. Didn't add any bullet points to the set yet though, will do that later. I also went with the second EV spread on the physically defensive set, so I edited in both spreads into the post below the OP in case anyone wants the other one.

    Thanks guys.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  11. SuperJOCKE

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    Ok, a little bit later than I intially said, but stuff happen.

    Anyways, this is written and should be ready for the final QC check and then GP.
  12. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Modest Omastar and Adamant Crawdaunt are pretty rare nowadays compared to their Speed Boosting counterparts. I'd make the main EV spread the one that outspeeds Adamant Aggron (max speed is actually kind of common)

    Please mention the OHKOs that Seismitoad is getting with Stealth Rock up, as otherwise its useless info.

    Also, if a move is an alternative for a move in a particular set (Surf over Hydro Pump on Swift Swim) generally it goes under AC. It's mostly for organizational purposes, as that Set's alternatives will then be shown under the corresponding set. I believe that's what they meant when they talked about it.

    QC Approved 3/3 SuperJOCKE

    As a side note, I realize this is really late in the process to be suggesting this, but I think Physically Defensive belongs in the first slot. The ability to check Aggron, Kabutops, and other dangerous Pokemon while providing Stealth Rock support is really valuable and its something no other Pokemon can do off the top of my head other than Torterra who still takes plenty from +2 Waterfalls. Offensive relies on rain to be good, which holds it back a bit, and Substitute... I can't really say much about it since I've never used it. It has the advantage over the other sets by being much easier to fit into a team as well, as I can't think of any other Water-type with Stealth Rock in RU other than other Rock-types, rather than being (heavily) suggested to be run with a rain team and it has more of a focus than Substitute.
  13. SuperJOCKE

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    Ok, changed the spread for the defensive set. I also moved it to the top. I personally don't care which set is first, but Molk told me to put the rain sweeper first when I asked. If anyone disagree they can just speak up.
    I also mentioned the main OHKO Seismitoad gets with SR, must've slipped my mind when I wrote it.

    I've written my fair share of analyses in my days, and I don't think this is a rule carved in stone. I know it usually goes in the AC, but this is kind of a special case. If any of the mods has anything against it, I'll move it though, but Surf should either be in OO or just be removed entirely because it's not good enough for AC even. That's just my opinion based on calcs.

    Thanks for the check though.

    EDIT: I moved Surf to the AC of the rain sweeper set. Seems like the best compromise for the time being. Let me know if anyone of you want it changed; I can revert it if that's what you guys want.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  14. piikachuu

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    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad is a rather unique Water-type Pokemon in that it can be played in a variety of different ways. Seismitoad can go on the offensive as a rain sweeper, or go on a more defensive route with its good typing and set up Stealth Rock for its team. It is also a good check to several Water-types in the tier by utilizing Water Absorb and Substitute. Seismitoad's typing comes with several benefits;: Seismitoad can't be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, so its rain sweep will not be ruined, and while on the defensive, it gives Seismitoad good resistances to some of the most common offensive types, such as Rock and Fire (and it only has one weakness!). However, a mediocre movepool and average stats does bring Seismitoad down a bit. It doesn't hit super hard with its moves unless they're boosted by Life Orb and rain, while its coverage is limited to Sludge Wave and Grass Knot to hit Water- and Grass-types who resist Seismitoad's Water-type STAB. A lack of reliable recovery also makes it hard for Seismitoad to take repeated hits, while other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Slowking give it huge competition due to that reason. All in all, Seismitoad's unique assests in the roles it plays is definitely something to take into consideration.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 104 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad makes for a solid defensive Pokemon due to its impressive bulk and good typing. Its Water / Ground typing gives it several good resistances and two useful immunties in combination with Water Absorb, allowing Seismitoad to check various threats in the tier such as Kabutops and Entei, while even walling the likes of Magneton and Lanturn. This gives Seismitoad many good opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Scald is a great STAB for any defensive Water-type, as the high burn chance will greatly improve Seismitoad's survivability. Earth Power does not only provide a great secondary STAB move, allowing Seismitoad to hit Pokemon that resist Scald, such as Druddigon and Slowking, harder but is also crucial for its ability to deal with Lanturn so well. Toxic rounds out this set by giving Seismitoad a solid option for dealing with defensive threats such as Alomomola and the aforementioned Slowking a lot easier, as Earth Power will never be enough to beat them.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad's options are rather limited to what's already been mentioned. However, Knock Off can be useful to make Eviolite users easier to handle. Knock Off will be mostly used against Ferroseed, but the occasional Misdreavus and Piloswine can be severely neutered by it. Protect can also be useful, as it can help Seismitoad recover more HP with Leftovers while it works great in tandem with Toxic when it comes to stalling out the damage. With the given spread, Seismitoad is able to outspeed Adamant Aggron with max Speed while it ties with Steel Trapper Magneton that aim for the same Speed mark. Seismitoad can use a faster EV spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe to outspeed certain Pokemon so it can avoid taking an unnecessary hit before dealing one itself, while still retaining most of its bulk. 104 Speed EVs allows Seismitoad to outspeed neutral base 55 Speed Pokemon with max Speed, such as Modest Omastar, Adamant Bouffalant, and Adamant Crawdaunt. This is particularly useful for Pokemon like Omastar, as it means Seismitoad can KO or severely cripple them before they can set up. Seismitoad is also able to outspeed Qwilfish with no Speed investment, while hitting the same Speed as Qwilfish with 16 Speed EVs, as they aim to outspeed the same Pokemon. Seismitoad can also be specially defensive, but Grass is a commonly seen special attacking type meaning Seismitoad will be 2HKOed at worst by a number of Pokemon, so it's not recommended.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad's typing does bring a 4x weakness to Grass-type moves, so Pokemon that can deal with threats that uses moves of this type make for great teammates. Fire-types, Emboar, Moltres, Entei, and Magmortar to be more specific, make for great answers to Grass-type Pokemon. They also pair well with Seismitoad as it can take care of most Water-types with ease, especially Kabutops, the most threatening one. Magmortar gets a special mention as it is immune to Spore and Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, making it the most effective answer to Grass-types like Amoonguss and Tangrowth. Adding a Grass-type to your team gives you a nice Fire-Water-Grass core; Amoonguss can become a good compliment defensively, while Lilligant gives you a more offensive option. Sap Sipper Pokemon, most notably Bouffalant and Miltank, can also help against Grass-types and other Pokemon using Grass-type moves, notably Spore and Sleep Powder. Miltank also compliments Seismitoad's physical defense with a specially defensive set. However, an offensive version of Miltank works just as well. Sawsbuck is another good candidate, especially since it can be a part of a Fire-Water-Grass core while being able to pass its Attack boosts with Baton Pass.</p>

    <p>While Seismitoad is bulky, there are a few Pokemon that can break through it with brute force. Gallade, Medicham, and Hitmonlee are Fighting-types that can do just that. This means Spiritomb pairs well with Seismitoad, especially a more specially defensive version, as it can break down these Fighting-types with relative ease. Spiritomb is also good at dealing with Slowking, and even Amoonguss if it uses a RestTalk set, two Pokemon that can give Seismitoad a lot of trouble. Escavalier and Durant fall into this category as well. Again, Fire-types are the easiest solution, more specifically Choice Scarf Emboar. Choice Scarf using Electric-types, in this case Manectric and Rotom-C who can run Fire-type moves, handles Durant as well. Using either of the three mentioned Pokemon makes Sceptile easier to deal with as well. When it comes to Pokemon that benefit from Seismitoad's support, it's pretty straightforward. Grass-types that fear the likes of Entei will greatly appreciate Seismitoad's typing. The same goes for physically frail Pokemon and Fire-types that fear Kabutops, and Steel- and Water-types that have trouble with Magneton and Lanturn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Sludge Wave
    move 4: Rain Dance / Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Seismitoad's best bet on the offensive. Seismitoad as a rain sweeper is pretty straightforward, but it has a key difference from other Swift Swimmers. Its Ground typing makes Seismitoad immune Electric-type moves. Not only does it remove a weakness to the type, but also keeps Seismitoad from being paralyzed by Thunder Wave, something that would otherwise stop any Pokemon from sweeping through a team. Hydro Pump gives Seismitoad much needed power, as Surf would does not cut it. This is the move Seismitoad will most likely use the most in the rain, as it will OHKO nearly everything that doesn't resist it. Earth Power adds a secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use, and it will dent most things that resist Hydro Pump. Sludge Wave rounds out Seismitoad's coverage, as it allows Seismitoad to hit Grass-types that resist its STAB moves. Sludge Wave will OHKO every Grass-type bar Amoonguss; the chances of Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C to survive surviving it are really slim. When it comes to Seismitoad's final move, it really depends on how the rest of the team is shaped;, although it shouldn't matter much which move you pick. Rain Dance is the slightly more useful choice. Rain Dance allows Seismitoad to keep its sweep going without switching to another Pokemon; however, Grass Knot does allow Seismitoad to hit certain threats, such as Slowking and Poliwrath, slightly harder than with Earth Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf can be used over Hydro Pump for a more consistent move with more PP, but the power drop is noticable as OHKOs against the likes of Escavalier are turned into 2HKOs,(AC) so keep that in mind. Focus Blast can be used as a faster way to take down Ferroseed, as it is immune to Sludge Wave. However, Ferroseed can't do much back to Seismitoad as Thunder Wave doesn't affect it and Seismitoad resists Gyro Ball (however, Seed Bomb is on Ferroseed's RU analysis), so Earth Power is usually enough to break through Ferroseed. When it comes to teammates, Seismitoad only need help with a few things. The first are teammates that can set up rain. Uxie is one of the more consistent Pokemon to choose from, as it can usually set up rain twice or more thanks to its great bulk. On top of that, Uxie can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Seismitoad gain some OHKOs. Rotom-C can also be effective in this role, as it helps in covering Seismitoad's Grass weakness while also taking care of Pokemon such as Poliwrath and Alomomola with little effort. Mesprit is a slightly less bulky version of Uxie, but brings a more offensive presence to the field withs higher attacking stats. Druddigon pairs well with Seismitoad as well, as its Dragon typing gives it a nice resistance to Grass-type moves while also having the ability to set up Stealth Rock that will help Seismitoad OHKO Escavalier with Hydro Pump in the rain. Druddigon can help in taking care of opposing Druddigon as well, as Seismitoad is only able to 2HKO them with Earth Power. Escavalier also packs a nice Grass resistance, but and has the ability to reliably take care of Slowking, one of the most problematic Pokemon for Seismitoad. Absol and Spiritomb are also good at this, but lacks the same type synergy with Seismitoad. Other Electric-types besides Rotom-C, such as Manectric, Galvantula, and Rotom, make for good teammates as well, as they can easily deal with most Water-types in the tier, most notably Alomomola and Slowking.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Water Absorb and Seismitoad's good typing to make it a great check to Water-types, as well as a lure to Grass-types and other Pokemon that would naturally switch in on Seismitoad. Substitute allows Seismitoad to avoid any kind of status that might hinder it, while it also act as a buffer against attacks that would KO it, giving Seismitoad a chance to potentially KO Pokemon such as Sceptile and Moltres. Setting up a Substitute isn't impossible either, as Seismitoad will cause a lot of switching against Pokemon such as Lanturn, Magneton, and Kabutops. Earth Power will be Seismitoad's most useful STAB move, as with it Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops, Magneton, and Omastar, while dealing a good chunk of damage to Pokemon such as Lanturn. Surf provides a great secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use against Pokemon that resist Earth Power, and will hit Pokemon like Entei and Steelix a bit harder. Sludge Bomb gives Seismitoad something to hit Grass-types, mostly slower ones such as Tangrowth, but it can also help KO faster ones such as Lilligant and Sceptile if Seismitoad has a Substitute up. A 30% chance to poison the foe is really nice too, as it can make Pokemon like Slowking easier to deal with. However, Toxic is a better option if you want a more reliable way to deal with Pokemon such as Alomomola, Cryogonal, and the aforementioned Slowking. This does, however, make Seismitoad more susceptible to Grass-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydro Pump can be used over Surf for a more powerful STAB move, but beware of the lowered accuracy. In the same vein, Sludge Wave can be used over Sludge Bomb for slightly more power, but Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison the foe is preferred over Sludge Wave's 10% and five points barely higher Base Power. The EV spread and the Timid nature are used to allow Seismitoad to outspeed Adamant Kabutops by one point. This makes it so that Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops before taking any unnecessary damage. As this set is meant to be used as a way to deal with Water-types, Pokemon that have trouble with them should be paired with Seismitoad. Durant have has serious trouble with Qwilfish as its Intimidate and Thunder Wave can severely cripple Durant. Seismitoad should have no trouble KOing Qwilfish Earth Power, giving Durant a big opening for a sweep. Seismitoad can also take care of Steelix, another Pokemon that gives Durant trouble. Fire-types that have trouble with Kabutops and Lanturn, such as Entei and Moltres, appreciate Seismitoad's help. Seismitoad should be immune to or resist both Pokemon's commonly used moves, and can proceed to KO them with ease; Lanturn might be using Ice Beam at times (unless this is significant; however, I don't see it). Slowking is also a common switch-in to Seismitoad, meaning that Seismitoad can either poison it with Toxic, or switch to a teammates such as Spiritomb, Escavalier, or Absol with no worries and trap Slowking with Pursuit mindgames. Seismitoad will also lure out Grass-types, which could give Fire-types, Pokemon such as Druddigon and Escavalier, and Sap Sipper Pokemon like Sawsbuck a free switch in and an opportunity to set up. Grass-types such as Lilligant can also take advantage of this.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad's other options is are rather limited, especially those that it can make good use of. Hidden Power Ice can also work on this set to hit Druddigon and other Dragon-types for super effective damage, while still covering Grass-types. However, the power difference between it and Sludge Wave is huge, and Hidden Power Ice doesn't hit Druddigon much harder than Earth Power. Icy Wind can also be used, but it's a better option for the Substitute and defensive sets, as it is more of a supportive move than an offensive one. Hidden Power Fire can help the physically defensive set by hitting Escavalier and Durant for super effective damage. However, fitting it onto Seismitoad can be quite hard, and if you forgo a specific move, a teammate moust compensate for the loss of coverage or answers to certain threats. Venoshock can be a solid option if Seismitoad has Toxic Spikes support, as it will become significally more powerful than Sludge Wave if the opponent is poisoned. However, this can become a huge gamble, and it makes it so that Rotom-C can easily revenge kill Seismitoad unless it has been poisoned by Toxic, as Rotom-C is immune to Toxic Spikes. To compensate for Seismitoad's lack of recovery, Rest and Sleep Talk can be used. B , but much like Hidden Power Fire, it can be hard fit these two moves onto the set without losing crucial options. Refresh can be easier to fit onto the defensive set, however, as it can remove any unwanted status from Seismitoad, increasing its longevity. Lastly, Seismitoad can go on a physically offensive route as well with its equally high base Attack. Seismitoad has a good variety of moves to choose from, such as Earthquake, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Bounce, and Rock Slide, but it has no physical Water-type STAB. This makes a physically oriented Swift Swimmer implausible, so its best bet is either a Choice Band or Life Orb set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Slowking is one of the best answers to Seismitoad. Even if Seismitoad uses Grass Knot it will have a hard time taking Slowking down. However, Slowking will have a harder time against the Substitute and defensive sets, as Toxic will quickly wear it down and it will most likely need Toxic itself to beat Seismitoad if Slowking doesn't run Psychic or Psyshock. Most Grass-types will more or less beat Seismitoad. The more offensively inclined Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C will have no trouble beating the slower sets with their super effective STABs, but will most likely lose to the Swift Swim Sweeper. However, if the rain is down, all three will outspeed Seismitoad, so waiting out the rain can definitely help. Tangrowth can deal with the defensive version with relative ease, but it will most likely be hit by Toxic before taking Seismitoad down, severely crippling Tangrowth. Amoonguss is a 100% guaranteed counter to any Seismitoad. Amoonguss's , as its Poison typing makes it immune to Toxic so it can't be stalled out, while it is only hit super effectively by Hidden Power, making it near impossible to take down for Seismitoad. The same applies for Roselia, as it shares the same typing with Amoonguss, and has great bulk thanks to Eviolite. Also, Pokemon that uses Grass-type move for coverage, such as Moltres and Manectric with Hidden Power Grass, and Galvantula with Giga Drain, will easily OHKO Seismitoad. The only exception is Choice Scarf Manectric's Hidden Power Grass, as it will surprisingly only do 95% damage at most to specially defensive Seismitoad. Druddigon can be a real problem for Seismitoad, regardless of the set. Offensive Seismitoad can only hope to 2HKO Druddigon with Earth Power, while defensive Seismitoad can only hope for Scald burning Druddigon as it is easily 2HKOed by Outrage. Escavalier and Durant are very similar. They can 2HKO defensive Seismitoad, but they are both OHKOed by Hydro Pump in rain; however, Stealth Rock is needed for Escavalier. Other Pokemon that can use brute force to break through Seismitoad include, but are not limited to, Gallade, Medicham, Hitmonlee, and Bouffalant, if they can avoid being burnt by Scald.</p>


    1/2
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  15. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Thanks for the check, it has been implmented.

    Also, welcome to the team and all that.
  16. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    after looking over s/g standards, apparently the term is Fire / Water / Grass core instead of Fire-Water-Grass core

    and thanks c:
  17. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad is a rather unique Water-type Pokemon in that it can be played in a variety of different ways. Seismitoad can go on the offensive as a rain sweeper, or go on a more defensive route with its good typing and set up Stealth Rock for its team. It is also a good check to several Water-types in the tier by utilizing Water Absorb and Substitute(to avoid status?). Seismitoad's typing comes with several benefits: Seismitoad can't be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, so its rain sweep will not be ruined, and while on the defensive, it gives Seismitoad good resistances to some of the most common offensive types, such as Rock and Fire. However, a mediocre movepool and average stats does bring Seismitoad down a bit. It doesn't hit super hard with its moves unless they're boosted by Life Orb and rain, while its coverage is limited to Sludge Wave and Grass Knot to hit Water- and Grass-types who resist Seismitoad's Water-type STAB. A lack of reliable recovery also makes it hard for Seismitoad to take repeated hits, while other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Slowking give it huge competition due to that reason. All in all, Seismitoad's unique assets in the roles it plays is definitely something to take into consideration.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 104 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad makes for a solid defensive Pokemon due to its impressive bulk and good typing. Its Water / Ground typing gives it several good resistances and two useful immunties in combination with Water Absorb, allowing Seismitoad to check various threats in the tier such as Kabutops and Entei, while even walling the likes of Magneton and Lanturn. This gives Seismitoad many good opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Scald is a great STAB for any defensive Water-type, as the high burn chance allows Seismitoad to cripple physical attackers will greatly improve Seismitoad's survivability(it isn't made clear). Earth Power does not only provide a great secondary STAB move, allowing Seismitoad to hit Pokemon that resist Scald,(RC) such as Druddigon and Slowking,(RC) harder,(AC) but is also crucial for its ability to deal with Lanturn so well. Toxic rounds out this set by giving Seismitoad a solid option for dealing with defensive threats such as Alomomola and the aforementioned Slowking a lot easier, as Earth Power will never be enough to beat them.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad's options are rather limited to what's already been mentioned. However, Knock Off can be useful to make Eviolite users easier to handle. Knock Off will be mostly used useful against Ferroseed, but the occasional Misdreavus and Piloswine can be severely neutered by it. Protect can also be useful, as it can help Seismitoad recover more HP with Leftovers while it works working great in tandem with Toxic when it comes to stalling out the damage. With the given spread, Seismitoad is able to outspeed Adamant Aggron with max Speed while it ties tying with Steel Trapper Magneton that aim for the same Speed mark. Seismitoad can use a faster EV spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe to outspeed certain Pokemon so it can avoid taking an unnecessary hit before dealing one itself, while still retaining most of its bulk. 104 Speed EVs allows Seismitoad to outspeed neutral base 55 Speed Pokemon with max Speed, such as Modest Omastar, Adamant Bouffalant, and Adamant Crawdaunt. This is particularly useful for Pokemon like such as Omastar, as it means Seismitoad can KO or severely cripple them before they can set up. Seismitoad is also able to outspeed Qwilfish with no Speed investment, while hitting the same Speed as Qwilfish with 16 Speed EVs, as they aim to outspeed the same Pokemon. Seismitoad can also be specially defensive, but Grass-type is a commonly seen specially attacking type,(AC) meaning Seismitoad will be 2HKOed at worst by a number of Pokemon, so it's not recommended.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad's typing does bring a 4x weakness to Grass-type moves, so Pokemon that can deal with threats that use moves of this type make for great teammates. Fire-types, such as Emboar, Moltres, Entei, and Magmortar to be more specific, make for great answers to Grass-type Pokemon. They also pair well with Seismitoad,(AC) as it can take care of most Water-types with ease, especially Kabutops, the most threatening one. Magmortar gets a special mention as it is immune to Spore and Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, making it the most effective answer to Grass-types like such as Amoonguss and Tangrowth. Adding a Grass-type to your team gives you a nice Fire- / Water- / Grass core; Amoonguss can become a good compliment defensively, while Lilligant gives you a more offensive option. Sap Sipper Pokemon, most notably Bouffalant and Miltank, can also help against Grass-types and other Pokemon using Grass-type moves. Miltank also compliments Seismitoad's physical defense bulk with a specially defensive set. However, an offensive version variant of Miltank works just as well. Sawsbuck is another good candidate, especially since it can be a part of a Fire / Water / Grass core while being able to pass its Attack boosts with Baton Pass.</p>

    <p>While Seismitoad is bulky, there are a few Pokemon that can break through it with brute force. Gallade, Medicham, and Hitmonlee are Fighting-types that can do just that. This means Spiritomb pairs well with Seismitoad, especially a more specially defensive version variant, as it can break down these Fighting-types with relative ease. Spiritomb is also good at dealing with Slowking, and even Amoonguss if it uses a RestTalk set, two Pokemon that can give Seismitoad a lot of trouble. Escavalier and Durant fall into this category as well. Again, Fire-types are the easiest solution, more specifically most notably Choice Scarf Emboar. Choice Scarf using Electric-types with a Choice Scarf, in this case such as Manectric and Rotom-C who can run Fire-type moves, handle Durant as well. Using either of the three aforementioned Pokemon makes Sceptile easier to deal with as well. When it comes to Pokemon that benefit from Seismitoad's support, it's pretty straightforward. Grass-types that fear the likes of Entei will greatly appreciate Seismitoad's typing. The same goes for physically frail Pokemon and Fire-types that fear Kabutops, and Steel- and Water-types that have trouble with Magneton and Lanturn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Sludge Wave
    move 4: Rain Dance / Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Seismitoad's best bet on the offensive. Seismitoad as a rain sweeper is pretty straightforward, but it has a key difference from other Swift Swimmers sweepers. Its secondary Ground typing makes Seismitoad immune Electric-type moves. Not only does it remove a weakness to the Electric-type attacks, but it also keeps Seismitoad from being paralyzed by Thunder Wave, something that would otherwise stop any Pokemon from sweeping through a team. Hydro Pump gives Seismitoad much-needed power, as Surf does not cut it. This is the move Seismitoad will most likely use the most in the rain, as it will OHKO nearly everything that doesn't resist it. Earth Power adds a secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use, and it will dent most things that resist Hydro Pump. Sludge Wave rounds out Seismitoad's coverage, as it allows Seismitoad to hit Grass-types that resist its STAB moves. Sludge Wave will OHKO every Grass-type bar Amoonguss; the chances of Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C surviving it are really slim. When it comes to Seismitoad's final move, it really depends on how the rest of the team is shaped;, although it shouldn't matter much which move you pick. Rain Dance is the slightly more useful choice., as Rain Dance it allows Seismitoad to keep its sweep going without switching to another Pokemon; however, Grass Knot does allow Seismitoad to hit certain threats, such as Slowking and Poliwrath, slightly harder than with Earth Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf can be used over Hydro Pump for a more consistent move with more PP, but the power drop is noticeable as OHKOs against the likes of Escavalier are turned into 2HKOs, so keep that in mind. Focus Blast can be used as a faster way to take down Ferroseed, as it is immune to Sludge Wave. However, Ferroseed can't do much back to Seismitoad as Thunder Wave doesn't affect it and Seismitoad resists Gyro Ball, so Earth Power is usually enough to break through Ferroseed. When it comes to teammates, Seismitoad only needs help with a few things. The first are teammates that can set up rain. Uxie is one of the more consistent Pokemon to choose from, as it can usually set up rain twice or more thanks to its great bulk. On top of that, Uxie can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Seismitoad gain some OHKOs. Rotom-C can also be effective in this role, as it helps in covering Seismitoad's Grass-type weakness while also taking care of Pokemon such as Poliwrath and Alomomola with little effort. Mesprit is a slightly less bulky version of Uxie, but brings a more offensive presence to the field with its higher attacking stats. Druddigon pairs well with Seismitoad as well, as its Dragon typing gives it a nice resistance to Grass-type moves while and it also having has the ability to set up Stealth Rock, which that will help Seismitoad OHKO Escavalier with Hydro Pump in the rain. Druddigon can help in taking care of opposing Druddigon as well, as Seismitoad is only able to 2HKO them with Earth Power. Escavalier also packs a nice Grass-type resistance, but has the ability to reliably take care of Slowking, one of the most problematic Pokemon for Seismitoad. Absol and Spiritomb are also good at this, but lack the same type synergy with Seismitoad. Other Electric-types besides Rotom-C, such as Manectric, Galvantula, and Rotom, make for good teammates as well, as they can easily deal with most Water-types in the tier, most notably Alomomola and Slowking.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Water Absorb and Seismitoad's good typing to make it a great check to Water-types, as well as a lure to Grass-types and other Pokemon that would naturally switch in on Seismitoad. Substitute allows Seismitoad to avoid any kind of status that might hinder it, while it also act as a buffer against attacks that would KO it, giving Seismitoad a chance to potentially KO Pokemon such as Sceptile and Moltres. Setting up a Substitute isn't impossible either, as Seismitoad will cause a lot of switching against Pokemon such as Lanturn, Magneton, and Kabutops. Earth Power will be is Seismitoad's most useful STAB move, as with it Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops, Magneton, and Omastar, while dealing a good chunk of damage to Pokemon such as Lanturn. Surf provides a great secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use against Pokemon that resist Earth Power, and will hit Pokemon like such as Entei and Steelix a bit harder. Sludge Bomb gives allows Seismitoad something to hit Grass-types, mostly slower ones such as Tangrowth, but it can also help KO faster ones such as Lilligant and Sceptile if Seismitoad has a Substitute up. A 30% chance to poison the foe is really nice too, as it can make Pokemon like Slowking easier to deal with. However, Toxic is a better option if you want a more reliable way to deal with Pokemon such as Alomomola, Cryogonal, and the aforementioned Slowking. This does, however, make Seismitoad more susceptible to Grass-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydro Pump can be used over Surf for a more powerful STAB move, but beware of the lowered accuracy. In the same vein, Sludge Wave can be used over Sludge Bomb for slightly more power, but Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison the foe is preferred over Sludge Wave's 10% and five points higher Base Power. The EV spread and the Timid nature are used to allow Seismitoad to outspeed Adamant Kabutops by one point. This makes it so that Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops before taking any unnecessary damage. As this set is meant to be used as a way to deal with Water-types, Pokemon that have trouble with them should be paired with Seismitoad. Durant has serious trouble with Qwilfish, (AC) as its Intimidate and Thunder Wave can severely cripple Durant. Seismitoad should have has no trouble KOing Qwilfish with Earth Power, giving Durant a big opening for a sweep. Seismitoad can also take care of Steelix, another Pokemon that gives Durant trouble. Fire-types that have trouble with Kabutops and Lanturn, such as Entei and Moltres, appreciate Seismitoad's help. Seismitoad should be is immune to or resists commonly carried moves by both Pokemon's commonly used moves, and can proceed to KO them with ease; Lanturn might be using Ice Beam at times(it doesn't do much though, so i don't see any point in mentioning it). Slowking is also a common switch-in to Seismitoad, meaning that Seismitoad can either poison it with Toxic, or switch to a teammate such as Spiritomb, Escavalier, or Absol with no worries and trap Slowking with Pursuit mindgames. Seismitoad will also lure out Grass-types, which could give Fire-types, Pokemon such as Druddigon and Escavalier, and Sap Sipper Pokemon like Sawsbuck a free switch in and an opportunity to set up. Grass-types such as Lilligant can also take advantage of this.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad's other options are rather limited, especially those that it can make good use of. Hidden Power Ice can also work to hit Druddigon and other Dragon-types for super effective damage, while still covering Grass-types. However, the power difference between it and Sludge Wave is huge, and Hidden Power Ice doesn't hit Druddigon much harder than Earth Power. Icy Wind can also be used, but it's a better option for the Substitute and defensive sets, as it is more of a supportive move than an offensive one. Hidden Power Fire can help the physically defensive set by hitting Escavalier and Durant for super effective damage. However, fitting it onto Seismitoad can be quite hard, and if you forgo a specific move, a teammate must compensate for the loss of coverage or answers to certain threats. Venoshock can be a solid option if Seismitoad has Toxic Spikes support, as it will become significally significantly more powerful than Sludge Wave if the opponent is poisoned. However, this can become a huge gamble, and it makes it so that Rotom-C can easily revenge kill Seismitoad unless it has been poisoned by Toxic, as Rotom-C is immune to Toxic Spikes. To compensate for Seismitoad's lack of recovery, Rest and Sleep (no spaces)Talk can be used, but much like Hidden Power Fire, it can be hard fit these two moves onto the set without losing crucial options. Refresh can be easier to fit onto the defensive set, however, as it can remove any unwanted status from Seismitoad, increasing its longevity. Lastly, Seismitoad can go on a physically offensive route as well with its equally high base Attack. Seismitoad has a good variety of moves to choose from, such as Earthquake, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Bounce, and Rock Slide, but it has no physical Water-type STAB. This makes a physically oriented Swift Swimmer sweeper implausible, so its best bet is either a Choice Band or Life Orb set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Slowking is one of the best answers to Seismitoad. Even if Seismitoad uses Grass Knot, (AC) it will have a hard time taking Slowking down. However, Slowking will have a harder time against the Substitute and defensive sets, as Toxic will quickly wear it down and it will most likely need Toxic itself to beat Seismitoad if Slowking doesn't run Psychic or Psyshock. Most Grass-types will more or less beat Seismitoad. The more offensively inclined Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C will have no trouble beating the slower sets with their super effective STABs, but will most likely lose to the Swift Swim Sweeper. However, if the rain is down, all three will outspeed Seismitoad, so waiting out the rain can definitely help. Tangrowth can deal with the defensive version with relative ease, but it will most likely be hit by Toxic before taking Seismitoad down, severely crippling Tangrowth. Amoonguss is a 100% guaranteed counter to any Seismitoad. Amoonguss's Poison typing makes it immune to Toxic so it can't be stalled out, while it is only hit super effectively by Hidden Power, making it near impossible to take down for Seismitoad. The same applies for Roselia, as it shares the same typing with Amoonguss, and has great bulk thanks to Eviolite. Also, Pokemon that uses Grass-type move for coverage, such as Moltres and Manectric with Hidden Power Grass, and Galvantula with Giga Drain, will easily OHKO Seismitoad. The only exception is Choice Scarf Manectric's Hidden Power Grass, as it will surprisingly only do 95% damage at most to defensive Seismitoad. Druddigon can be a real problem for Seismitoad, regardless of the set. Offensive Seismitoad can only hope to 2HKO Druddigon with Earth Power, while defensive Seismitoad can only hope for Scald burning Druddigon as it is easily 2HKOed by Outrage. Escavalier and Durant are very similar. They can 2HKO defensive Seismitoad, but they are both OHKOed by Hydro Pump in rain; however, Stealth Rock is needed for Escavalier. Other Pokemon that can use brute force to break through Seismitoad include, but are not limited to, Gallade, Medicham, Hitmonlee, and Bouffalant, if they can avoid being burnt by Scald.</p>

    Just skimmed over c&c, but covered everything else imo
  18. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad is a rather unique Water-type Pokemon in that it can be played in a variety of different ways. Seismitoad can go on the offensive as a rain sweeper, (RC) or go on a more defensive route with its good typing and set up Stealth Rock for its team. It is also a good check to several Water-types in the tier by utilizing Water Absorb and Substitute. Seismitoad's typing comes with several benefits: Seismitoad can't be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, so its rain sweep will not be ruined, and while on the defensive, it gives Seismitoad good resistances to some of the most common offensive types, such as Rock and Fire. However, a mediocre movepool and average stats does bring Seismitoad down a bit. It doesn't hit super hard with its moves unless they're boosted by Life Orb and rain, while its coverage is limited to Sludge Wave and Grass Knot to hit Water- and Grass-types who that resist Seismitoad's Water-type STAB. A lack of reliable recovery also makes it hard for Seismitoad to take repeated hits, while other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Slowking give it huge competition due to that reason. All in all, Seismitoad's unique assets in the roles it plays is definitely something to take into consideration.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 104 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad makes for a solid defensive Pokemon due to its impressive bulk and good typing. Its Water / Ground typing gives it several good resistances and two useful immunities in combination with Water Absorb, allowing Seismitoad to check various threats in the tier such as Kabutops and Entei, while even walling the likes of Magneton and Lanturn. This gives Seismitoad many good opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Scald is a great STAB for any defensive Water-type, as the high burn chance will greatly improve Seismitoad's survivability. Earth Power does not only provide a great secondary STAB move, allowing Seismitoad to hit Pokemon that resist Scald, such as Druddigon and Slowking, harder but is also crucial for its ability to deal with Lanturn so well. Toxic rounds out this set by giving Seismitoad a solid option for dealing with defensive threats such as Alomomola and the aforementioned Slowking a lot easier, as Earth Power will never be enough to beat them.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Seismitoad's options are rather limited to what's already been mentioned. However, Knock Off can be useful to make Eviolite users easier to handle. Knock Off will be mostly used against Ferroseed, but the occasional Misdreavus and Piloswine can be severely neutered by it. Protect can also be useful, as it can help Seismitoad recover more HP with Leftovers while it works great in tandem with Toxic when it comes to stalling out opponents the damage. With the given spread, Seismitoad is able to outspeed Adamant Aggron with max Speed while it ties with steel trapper Magneton that aim for the same Speed mark. Seismitoad can use a faster EV spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe to outspeed certain Pokemon so it can avoid taking an unnecessary hit before dealing one itself, while still retaining most of its bulk. 104 Speed EVs allows Seismitoad to outspeed neutral base 55 Speed Pokemon with max Speed, such as Modest Omastar, Adamant Bouffalant, and Adamant Crawdaunt. This is particularly useful for dealing with Pokemon like Omastar, as it means Seismitoad can KO or severely cripple them before they can set up. Seismitoad is also able to outspeed Qwilfish with no Speed investment, while hitting the same Speed as Qwilfish with 16 Speed EVs, as they aim to outspeed the same Pokemon. Seismitoad can also be specially defensive, but Grass is a commonly seen special attacking type, (AC) meaning Seismitoad will be 2HKOed at worst by a number of Pokemon, so it's not recommended.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad's typing does bring a 4x weakness to Grass-type moves, so Pokemon that can deal with threats that use moves of this type make for great teammates. Fire-types, Emboar, Moltres, Entei, and Magmortar to be more specific, make for great answers to Grass-type Pokemon. They also pair well with Seismitoad as it can take care of most Water-types with ease, especially Kabutops, the most threatening one. Magmortar gets a special mention as it is immune to Spore and Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, making it the most effective answer to Grass-types like Amoonguss and Tangrowth. Adding a Grass-type to your team gives you a nice Fire / Water / Grass core; Amoonguss can become a good compliment defensively, while Lilligant gives you a more offensive option. Sap Sipper Pokemon, most notably Bouffalant and Miltank, can also help against Grass-types and other Pokemon using Grass-type moves. Miltank also compliments Seismitoad's physical defense with a specially defensive set. However, an offensive version of Miltank works just as well. Sawsbuck is another good candidate, especially since it can be a part of a Fire / Water / Grass core while being able to pass its Attack boosts with Baton Pass.</p>

    <p>While Seismitoad is bulky, there are a few Pokemon that can break through it with brute force. Gallade, Medicham, and Hitmonlee are Fighting-types that can do just that. This means Spiritomb pairs well with Seismitoad, especially a more specially defensive version, as it can break down these Fighting-types with relative ease. Spiritomb is also good at dealing with Slowking, and even Amoonguss if it uses a RestTalk set, two Pokemon that can give Seismitoad a lot of trouble. Escavalier and Durant fall into this category as well. Again, Fire-types are the easiest solution, more specifically Choice Scarf Emboar. Choice Scarf using Electric-types, in this case Manectric and Rotom-C, which who can run Fire-type moves, handle Durant as well. Using either of the three mentioned Pokemon makes Sceptile easier to deal with as well. When it comes to Pokemon that benefit from Seismitoad's support, it's pretty straightforward. Grass-types that fear the likes of Entei will greatly appreciate Seismitoad's typing. The same goes for physically frail Pokemon and Fire-types that fear Kabutops, and Steel- and Water-types that have trouble with Magneton and Lanturn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Sludge Wave
    move 4: Rain Dance / Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Seismitoad's best bet on the offensive. Seismitoad as a rain sweeper is pretty straightforward, but it has a key difference from other Swift Swimmers. Its Ground typing makes Seismitoad immune Electric-type moves. Not only does it remove a weakness to the type, but also keeps Seismitoad from being paralyzed by Thunder Wave, something that would otherwise stop any Pokemon from sweeping through a team. Hydro Pump gives Seismitoad much-needed power, as Surf does not cut it. This is the move Seismitoad will most likely use the most in the rain, as it will OHKO nearly everything that doesn't resist it. Earth Power adds a secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use, and it will dent most things that resist Hydro Pump. Sludge Wave rounds out Seismitoad's coverage, as it allows Seismitoad to hit Grass-types that resist its STAB moves. Sludge Wave will OHKO every Grass-type bar Amoonguss; the chances of Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C surviving it are really slim. When it comes to Seismitoad's final move, it really depends on how the rest of the team is shaped;, although it shouldn't matter much which move you pick. Rain Dance is the slightly more useful choice. Rain Dance allows Seismitoad to keep its sweep going without switching to another Pokemon; however, Grass Knot does allows Seismitoad to hit certain threats, such as Slowking and Poliwrath, slightly harder than with Earth Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf can be used over Hydro Pump for a more consistent move with more PP, but the power drop is noticeable, as OHKOs against the likes of Escavalier are turned into 2HKOs, so keep that in mind. Focus Blast can be used as a faster way to take down Ferroseed, as it is immune to Sludge Wave. However, Ferroseed can't do much back to Seismitoad as Thunder Wave doesn't affect it and Seismitoad resists Gyro Ball, so Earth Power is usually enough to break through Ferroseed. When it comes to teammates, Seismitoad only needs help with a few things. The first are teammates that can set up rain. Uxie is one of the more consistent Pokemon to choose from, as it can usually set up rain twice or more thanks to its great bulk. On top of that, Uxie can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Seismitoad gain some OHKOs. Rotom-C can also be effective in this role, as it helps in covering Seismitoad's Grass weakness while also taking care of Pokemon such as Poliwrath and Alomomola with little effort. Mesprit is a slightly less bulky version of Uxie, but brings a more offensive presence to the field with its higher attacking stats. Druddigon pairs well with Seismitoad as well, as its Dragon typing gives it a nice resistance to Grass-type moves while also having the ability to set up Stealth Rock that will help Seismitoad OHKO Escavalier with Hydro Pump in the rain. Druddigon can help in taking care of opposing Druddigon as well, as Seismitoad is only able to 2HKO them with Earth Power. Escavalier also not only packs a nice Grass resistance, but has the ability to reliably take care of Slowking, one of the most problematic Pokemon for Seismitoad. Absol and Spiritomb are also good at this, but lack the same type synergy with Seismitoad. Other Electric-types besides Rotom-C, such as Manectric, Galvantula, and Rotom, make for good teammates as well, as they can easily deal with most Water-types in the tier, most notably Alomomola and Slowking.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Water Absorb and Seismitoad's good typing to make it a great check to Water-types, as well as a lure to Grass-types and other Pokemon that would naturally switch in on Seismitoad. Substitute allows Seismitoad to avoid any kind of status that might hinder it, while it also act as a buffer against attacks that would KO it, giving Seismitoad a chance to potentially KO Pokemon such as Sceptile and Moltres. Setting up a Substitute isn't impossible either, as Seismitoad will cause a lot of switching against Pokemon such as like This might be the first time I've ever put like as a replacement in any check Lanturn, Magneton, and Kabutops. Earth Power will be Seismitoad's most useful STAB move, as with it Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops, Magneton, and Omastar, while dealing a good chunk of damage to Pokemon such as Lanturn. Surf provides a great secondary STAB move for Seismitoad to use against Pokemon that resist Earth Power, and will hit Pokemon like Entei and Steelix a bit harder. Sludge Bomb gives Seismitoad something to hit Grass-types, mostly slower ones such as Tangrowth, but it can also help KO faster ones such as Lilligant and Sceptile if Seismitoad has a Substitute up. A 30% chance to poison the foe is really nice too, as it can make Pokemon like Slowking easier to deal with. However, Toxic is a better option if you want a more reliable way to deal with Pokemon such as Alomomola, Cryogonal, and the aforementioned Slowking. This does, however, make Seismitoad more susceptible to Grass-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydro Pump can be used over Surf for a more powerful STAB move, but beware of the lowered accuracy. In the same vein, Sludge Wave can be used over Sludge Bomb for slightly more power, but Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison the foe is preferred over Sludge Wave's 10% and five points only marginally higher Base Power. The EV spread and the Timid nature are used to allow Seismitoad to outspeed Adamant Kabutops by one point. This makes it so that Seismitoad can OHKO Kabutops before taking any unnecessary damage. As this set is meant to be used as a way to deal with Water-types, Pokemon that have trouble with them should be paired with Seismitoad. Durant has serious trouble with Qwilfish as its Intimidate and Thunder Wave can severely cripple Durant. Seismitoad should have no trouble KOing Qwilfish Earth Power, giving Durant a big opening for a sweep. Seismitoad can also take care of Steelix, another Pokemon that gives Durant trouble. Fire-types that have trouble with Kabutops and Lanturn, such as Entei and Moltres, appreciate Seismitoad's help. Seismitoad should be immune to or resist both Pokemon's commonly used moves, and can proceed to KO them with ease; keep in mind Lanturn might be using Ice Beam at times. Slowking is also a common switch-in to Seismitoad, meaning that Seismitoad can either poison it with Toxic, (RC) or switch to a teammate such as Spiritomb, Escavalier, or Absol with no worries and trap Slowking with Pursuit mindgames. Seismitoad will also lure out Grass-types, which could give Fire-types, Pokemon such as Druddigon and Escavalier, and Sap Sipper Pokemon like Sawsbuck a free switch in and an opportunity to set up. Grass-types such as Lilligant can also take advantage of this.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad's other options are rather limited, especially those that it can make good use of. Hidden Power Ice can also work to hit Druddigon and other Dragon-types for super effective damage, (RC) while still covering Grass-types. However, the power difference between it and Sludge Wave is huge, and Hidden Power Ice doesn't hit Druddigon much harder than Earth Power. Icy Wind can also be used, but it's a better option for the Substitute and defensive sets, as it is more of a supportive move than an offensive one. Hidden Power Fire can help the physically defensive set by hitting Escavalier and Durant for super effective damage. However, fitting it onto Seismitoad can be quite hard, and if you forgo a specific move, a teammate must compensate for the loss of coverage or answers to certain threats. Venoshock can be a solid option if Seismitoad has Toxic Spikes support, as it will become significally more powerful than Sludge Wave if the opponent is poisoned. However, this can become a huge gamble, and it makes it so that Rotom-C can easily revenge kill Seismitoad unless it has been poisoned by Toxic, as Rotom-C is immune to Toxic Spikes. To compensate for Seismitoad's lack of recovery, Rest and Sleep Talk can be used, but much like Hidden Power Fire, it can be hard fit these two moves onto the set without losing crucial options. Refresh can be easier to fit onto the defensive set, however, as it can remove any unwanted status from Seismitoad, increasing its longevity. Lastly, Seismitoad can go on a physically offensive route as well with its equally high base Attack. Seismitoad has a good variety of moves to choose from, such as Earthquake, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Bounce, and Rock Slide, but it has no physical Water-type STAB. This makes a physically oriented Swift Swimmer implausible, so its best bet is either a Choice Band or Life Orb set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Slowking is one of the best answers to Seismitoad. Even if Seismitoad uses Grass Knot, (AC) it will have a hard time taking Slowking down. However, Slowking will have a harder time against the Substitute and defensive sets, as Toxic will quickly wear it down and it will most likely need Toxic itself to beat Seismitoad if Slowking doesn't run Psychic or Psyshock. Most Grass-types will more or less beat Seismitoad. The more offensively inclined Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C will have no trouble beating the slower sets with their super effective STABs, but will most likely lose to the Swift Swim sweeper. However, if the rain is down, all three will outspeed Seismitoad, so waiting out the rain can definitely help. Tangrowth can deal with the defensive version with relative ease, but it will most likely be hit by Toxic before taking Seismitoad down, severely crippling Tangrowth. Amoonguss is a 100% guaranteed counter to any Seismitoad. Amoonguss's Poison typing makes it immune to Toxic so it can't be stalled out, (RC) while it is only hit super effectively by Hidden Power, making it near impossible to take down for Seismitoad. The same applies for Roselia, as it shares the same typing with Amoonguss, (RC) and has great bulk thanks to Eviolite. Also, Pokemon that uses Grass-type move for coverage, such as Moltres and Manectric with Hidden Power Grass, (RC) and Galvantula with Giga Drain, will easily OHKO Seismitoad. The only exception is Choice Scarf Manectric's Hidden Power Grass, as it will surprisingly only do 95% damage at most to defensive Seismitoad. Druddigon can be a real problem for Seismitoad, regardless of the set. Offensive Seismitoad can only hope to 2HKO Druddigon with Earth Power, while defensive Seismitoad can only hope for Scald burning Druddigon as it is easily 2HKOed by Outrage. Escavalier and Durant are very similar. They can 2HKO defensive Seismitoad, but they are both OHKOed by Hydro Pump in rain; however, Stealth Rock is needed for Escavalier. Other Pokemon that can use brute force to break through Seismitoad include, but are not limited to, Gallade, Medicham, Hitmonlee, and Bouffalant, if they can avoid being burnt by Scald.</p>

    2/2
    Sorry for not doing it sooner >_<
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  19. SuperJOCKE

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  20. Oglemi

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