1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Quality Control Serperior QC (0/3)

Discussion in 'Dream World Analyses' started by V0x, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    [pimg]525[/pimg]

    [Overview]

    <p>Serperior boasts one of the most incredible offensive abilities, Contrary. A Pokemon like Latios would kill for a free Nasty Plot with every Draco Meteor, and it seems like a shame for such a great ability to be wasted on such a mediocre movepool. However, Serperior has just enough to be a dangerous threat, under not uncommon circumstances. If one needs a stellar rain check, or a devastating supporting sweeper, single in on the Serperior option.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Contrary
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite an unfortunate movepool for an amazing ability, Serperior can pull half offensive half defensive set rather well. Leaf Storm is required, not only as a 140 Base Power STAB move, but also as a free +2 in Special Attack with each use. The next slot is about as much coverage as Serperior is going to get. Hidden Power Fire hurts Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, especially after Serperior gets a few Special Attack boosts. However, Hidden Power Ice deals with Dragon-types that would otherwise utterly wall even a +6 Serperior. Substitute is a good move on Serperior, easing prediction and giving it a layer of defense against the notorious Genesect. Leech Seed complements Substitute well, providing Serperior with an increased number of Substitutes and providing overall healing. It is even possible to stall out some Pokemon to the Leaf Storm KO range, giving Serperior a Substitute and +2 Attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers is a helpful item since it provides Serperior with passive recovery to offset the HP lost by Substitute. However, this leaves it prone to Chandelure's Shadow Tag, so Shed Shell is also an option. The EV spread is standard for a special sweeper--Serperior doesn't really have the bulk for a move defensive spread. Furthermore, Serperior needs as much Special Attack as possible to maximize Leaf Storm's boosts. However, 4 EVs are placed in Defense: if Serperior doesn't have a Substitute and Genesect switches in, it doesn't matter what the bug uses. If you want a Serperior left, you will switch. Therefore, 4 Defense EVs provides a Special Attack boost, lessening the overall damage of U-turn.</p>

    • Dragon Pulse provides good neutral coverage, but not good SE coverage, so most useful at higher boosts. Can replace and HP or Sub or Seed

    <p>Serperior is most appreciative of trappers such as Magnezone, Dugtrio, and Chandelure. Magnezone and Chandelure in particular can remove Steel-types that utterly wall Serperior, if the snake carries Hidden Power Ice. Opposing Chandelure can trap Serperior, so you can pack Tyranitar to re-trap it with Pursuit. Heatran basically always walls Serperior, so powerful Water-, Ground-, or Fighting-type attacks are good to have. For example, Keldeo can force Heatran out and has decent synergy with Serperior. Genesect is also a problem, so having a Heatran of your own can reduce the damage it does.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Giga Drain / Taunt / Glare
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Contrary
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>
    • Free Nasty Plots with STAB powerful damage
    • HP Fire hits Steels since Leaf Storm and Dragon Pulse can't
    • HP Ground also hits Steels and Fire-types resisting Leaf Storm
    • Dragon Pulse hits Dragons (HP Ice not needed at high boosts)
    • Giga Drain gives healing after boosts, Taunt stops Ferro from setting up hazards, and others, Glare for switch ins even para's Garchomp
    </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>
    • Life Orb power Giga Drain heals some
    • 4 HP for SpA boost so Genesect U-turn doesn't hurt the rest of your team
    • Timid needed to outspeed and hit Keldeo Lati@s positive-natured 101s and such (what was the actual #)
    • Tornadus-T outspeeds now so special wall, weather changer, or flying resist good partner
    • Hazards like always
    • works great against rain teams though Ferro still hard to take down
    • Chandelure and Magnezone to trap that sucker
    </p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Serperior has a very sparse offensive movepool. Giga Drain provides some amount of recovery but it better be run alongside Leaf Storm. Serperior has a few other Hidden Power options: Rock gives it good neutral coverage, but then it can't get past Steel-types or Dragon-type without a secondary Flying-typing. Hidden Power Ground hits Heatran and Chandelure, which can be useful except Heatran usually has Air Balloon, and Chandelure usually outspeeds with Choice Scarf. Support-wise, Serperior has access to Glare to paralyze checks and switch ins, which has 90% accuracy and even affects Ground- and Ghost-types.

    • and Thundurus-T

    Unfortunately, Serperior can't always defeat its check. It also has access to dual screens, but doesn't have the support movepool like a Pokemon such as Latios or Latias does. Choice Scarf is an option for Serperior, giving it the speed necessary to outspeed Chandelure and Genesect and the capability to clean up rain teams singlehandedly.
    -Taunt stops stuff like Ferro from setting up, but Gyro Ball will hurt and you need boosted HP Fire to do anything, even worse in rain</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unfortunately, all Grass-types like Serperior have a slew of counters. The first that comes to mind is Genesect, which 4x resists Leaf Storm and typically outspeeds due to Choice Scarf. The only thing it needs to worry about is switching in to Hidden Power Fire, which Serperior doesn't even always have. Without Hidden Power Fire, basically all Steel-types wall Serperior. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress all 4x resist Leaf Storm and take a pittance from Hidden Power Ice. Heatran and Chandelure virtually always beat Chandelure, resisting or being immune to Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Ice, in addition to Leaf Storm. Latias and it's immense Special bulk can generally set up enough to KO Serperior.</p>


    • Tornadus-T outspeeds and hits SE

    <p>Without Hidden Power Ice, the majority of Dragon-types wall Serperior. Salamence and Dragonite 4x resist Leaf Storm and take nothing from Hidden Power Fire. Similarly, Latios and Latios are basically unaffected.</p>
  2. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,499
    You could name the set SubSeed.
  3. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,224
    Serperior also has a few other options it could be running:

    - Choice - I personally don't like Choiced Serperior, but I can see the appeal behind it. It should at least get an OO mention, IMO.
    - HP Rock needs to mention how it defeats Volcarona one-on-one, which without it, pretty much hard counters you.

    This set:

    [SET]
    name: Amazing (you can replace the name, although "Parashuffler" sounds silly, IMO)
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Glare
    move 4: Dragon Tail
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Contrary
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Get some hazards up and this thing is a monster. Glare is not that useless, especially the best way for offensive teams to take down Serperior is through revenge killing it with Genesect or Chandelure, and to paralyse them would mean you just eliminated a check. You can paralyse things on the switch-in (or just set up a Sub, then paralyse), then you Sub down until you get a full paralysis (or if you can kill with Leaf Storm straight away safely, do it). With hazards down, if you can't beat anything, just Dragon Tail it out and make it eat hazard damage.
  4. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,172
    Choice Scarf needs to be OO, it destroys Rain teams singlehandedly. It also outspeeds the main counters you listed Genesect and Chandelure (Genesect needs prior damage but Chandelure can lose if SR is up). Other than that I think this is good, there's no movepool to cover outside of what you listed. Thank god you didn't mention Twister.

    Also take out Calm Mind because it drops your stats with Contrary. Or just mention that you need Overgrow if you want to use it. CM is not a terrible set...in standard NU. It doesn't deserve any more than one sentence, let alone serious consideration for a DW analysis.
  5. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    Taken into consideration. I removed Calm Mind LOL I forgot it drops your stats with Contrary and why would you ever want to use it with Overgrow. Scarf got the OO, thanks!

    This is nothing against you, shrang, and you have some amazing sets that I love playing with (lol Tentacruel), but I am absolutely horrible at using parashuffling of any kind. I don't think I could properly test the set and write it up, so if you have time could you post it as a separate set. I just cannot correctly use parashuffling at all. ty~~ :)
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,994
    I took this from Birkal's old thread of Counter that Pokemon. HP Fire is just as viable as HP Ice in the third slot, since it lets you beat the myriad of 4x weak Pokemon, like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and stuff like Skarmory, meaning that this Serpeior is a really nifty stallbreaker as well (not like Stall's common but whatever). Consider testing it?
  7. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693

    This is intriguing, I'll try giving it a shot after partying for !_!
  8. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    765
    Glare is definitely OO material at least. A 90% accurate move that paralyzes everything besides Limber mons, including Ground- and Ghost-types? Sign me up. It doesn't even need a set based around it, although Shrang's set is definitely very annoying. My problem with it is Serperior's 4MSS and how it can't fit it easily over Leech Seed or Substitute, but it's still a really underrated move, especially with its huge Speed.
  9. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    Glare is in OO already
  10. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    765
    I missed that one sentence out of the whole paragraph, of course. Guess the fast reading I use to check analyses isn't very good for comprehension.
  11. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    dw, I added the part about accuracy and being able to paralyze Ground-types since that's a nice perk.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,994
    Well, this will obviously have to be revamped with a Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/HP Fire/ (Giga Drain/Taunt) set
  13. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    I guess this is ready for QC checks? there wasn't too big of changes Dragon Pulse in AC
  14. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,530
    Needs an offensive set, especially now with Dragon Pulse available. Something like:

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Giga Drain / Taunt / Glare
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Contrary
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  15. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,693
    donezo?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)