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Serperior

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by New World Order, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    With a stat spread that makes the Los Angeles Clippers look competent, and a movepool about as shallow as Brad Pitt's personality, you would think that Serperior would be doomed in the powerhouse filled DW OU. You would be so wrong. Its ability, Contrary, reverses its stat changes. Combine this with Leaf Storm, and you have yourself a Pokemon that can pose a threat with mono-type coverage, and Grass mono-type coverage notwithstanding. It also has decent Speed as well, so don't think you can just pounce on it after it attacks either.

    [​IMG]
    Base Stats:
    HP: 75
    Atk: 75
    Def: 90
    SpA: 75
    SpD: 90
    Spe: 113

    Leaf Storm, Leaf Storm, Leaf Storm. You may as well carry that as your only move, because in many games, that's all you click. In all seriousness though, Serperior doesn't need much offense besides Leaf Storm, and can run various deadly sets.

    Serperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed / Glare
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock / Dragon Tail

    This is that set that has made Serperior an infamous assasin in DW OU. Contrary Leaf Storm, of course, is one of the most fearsome Attacks in the tier. Unless a Pokemon has a x4 resistance to it, they're bound to take hefty damage. Those that can take a Leaf Storm could potentially be overwhelmed by SubSeed spam, while others are crippled by Glare. Sadly, Serperior's boons end there, as its pathetic movepool means it can only use a Hidden Power for coverage or Dragon Tail to get out of a corner.

    Serperior @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock
    - Toxic / Glare

    Now, what's the only thing scarier than a +6 Leaf Storm from Serperior? A Specs boosted +6 Leaf Storm or a +1 Speed +6 Leaf Storm from Serperior! Of course, that's about all this set has to offer, because all it has after that are horrendously weak Giga Drain and Hidden Powers. The fact that it must run a support move in the last slot just shows how sad Serperior is.

    Serperior @ Life Orb
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock
    - Giga Drain
    - Taunt / Substitute

    Offensive Serperior, see Subseed set, except it now uses more Attacks. Move along, nothing to see here.

    Serperior @ Light Clay
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Taunt
    - Leaf Storm

    A pretty lame use of Serperior. Blahblah Dual Screens+Taunt to support the team. Sadly, Serperior's movepool is so shallow that you actually don't miss out on much coverage... Still, this is generally a misuse of Serperior and should only be used if you want a back-up screener.

    Counters:

    Heatran: Can obviously wall all non HP Ground Serperior and destroy them with a Fire STAB. However, beware of the Subseed set, which can actually overwhelm Heatran if the user is not careful

    Scizor: A x4 Grass resist is pretty much a must if you want a Pokemon to check Serperior. Scizor is one of these Pokemon, although Hidden Power Fire is just annoying. Scizor can screw over Serperior pretty badly with Bullet Punch or U-turn as well, so as long as that green snake doesn't carry you know what, you should be fine.

    Genesect: see Scizor

    Dragonite: Can tank any one of Serperior's Attacks thanks to Multi Scale, although do be aware that a +2 HP Ice will KO if Multi Scale is not active. Dragonite can use this opportunity to either set up and go on a sweep of its own, or go for the outright KO.

    Salamence: see Dragonite without Multi Scale

    Volcarona: Pretty much the same dealeo as the guys before it. x4 Grass resist, can either threaten Serperior with a powerful STAB or set up Quiver Dances. Stealth Rock is freaking gay though, and Offensive versions of Volcarona can be overwhelmed by Subseed if not careful.

    Discuss
  2. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    Once Serperior gets released into the real world it's going to get a quickban from NU, the tier it currently resides in. Serperior has a unique niche in NU, nothing like what it's Dreamworld counterpart will be using. The realworld Serperior uses subseed or dualscreens in a futile attempt to survive, while also being able to outspeed key mons in NU and prevent them from setting up, laying hazards or statusing it via taunt. Its dreamworld counterpart however is a key pivot in some matches, coming in, placing a substitute and leech seeding its opponent or setting up screens; and spamming leaf storm maniacally only to become stronger and stronger after every use, leaving the opponent in a very tight situation as he/she has to end this monster's rampage before it kills their team. The only thing we'll have to admit now is that this will be the only fully-evolved starter pokemon besides Infernape that is fit to play with the behemoths of the future OU metagame.
  3. BattleStar

    BattleStar

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    Serperior has an awesome niche ability. Howeve it's Special movepull is pitifully shallow. It basically has to make use with Leaf Storm and just a hidden power.
    However it can become a sort of offensive tank/staller with leech seed and substitute thrown in.
  4. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Don't forget about Blaziken Steamroll ;)
  5. Vein

    Vein

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    I'm currently running this set in DW OU:

    Serperior @ Light Clay
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - HP Rock / Fire / Ice
    - Leaf Storm

    He was my replacement for Deo-S to run screens for my HO. and boy, this set is godly. Don't need to invest on SpA due to Contrary and the screens and 252 HP EVs makes sure he survives some hits.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I heard Lee (I believe) mentioning Glare as a viable option on the primary set. A 90% non-electric paralyzing move does seem pretty appealing, and paralysis always goes well with Substitute. However, Sub Leech is obviously a very effective strategy that is very hard to pass up.
  7. HardCore

    HardCore

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    Choice Specs and Choice scarf are also sets that could go with some mention. They have great impact late game and have a power that is un ignorable. Once Specs gets the special attack boost late game you can call it quits unless you are ready to out speed that thing/ revenge with ease, which of course isn't too hard in many cases but the power of specs shouldn't be overlooked in my opinion. Like many sweepers once you have a few entry hazards you get an easy sweep with this Pokemon.
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    I used this:

    Serperior @ Life Orb
    Contrary / Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Leaf Storm
    - Giga Drain
    - HP Ice / Fire
    - Taunt

    Excellent stallbreaker, sweeper, (tank?), and can easily break defensive cores. Leaf Storm spam at the beginning, as with every Serperior, and then once you encounter some pressure users, Giga Drain has its appeal, since its also ridiculously powerful after a couple of Leaf Storms. Furthermore, the recovery allows Serperior to run Life Orb, making its attacks even more powerful. The HP is obvious, Fire brutally massacres the 4x Grass resists like Scizor, Genesect, Ferrorthorn, Forretress, Skarmory, etc, while HP Ice is for Dragons. HP Ice with Magnezone/Chandy support is also a highly effective strategy

    I swear this is my absolute favourite Pokemon to use in DW...
  9. HardCore

    HardCore

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    This is another example of how powerful Serperior can be. Not only that but Offenseive Serperior is one of the fast checks/ counters to Manaphy. He can come in why Manaphy is using TailGlow then completely take over the battle. Although Manaphy might not be staying for long this is a great attribute and a great reason to use Choice Serperior
  10. Vein

    Vein

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    I also like this set. But you need to put HP Rock there to make sure you beat Shadow Tag Chandelure (your no. 1 check!) which happily switches in whenever he see Serperior expecting you carry HP Fire/Ice.
  11. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    I also think it'll deserve a quick ban from NU and possibly RU too, but I think you're exaggerating a little. Leaf Storm only has 8 PP and as the OP mentions, it's still a Grass-type move. It'll hardly be sweeping teams with one move but it will make some giant dents.

    And its counters depend mostly on what Hidden Power you run. HP Fire leaves you vulnerable to Lati@s, Heatran, Chandelure, Dragonite...and HP Ice makes you weak to Steel-types in general.
  12. Vein

    Vein

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    That's why HP Rock is a move of choice for this guy...but again walled by some steel types in OU. The only problem is movepool, but won't a +4 attack fix that? just wondering....
  13. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    The SpAtk boosts help, but you have to remember that your opponent is trying to stop you as well. You don't just start spamming Leaf Storms in a vacuum. The first Leaf Storm is always going to be insanely weak, even failing to OHKO things weak to Serp's STAB. If you're used to OU mons then you will be surprised at how piss-poor Serperior's SpAtk stat is without multiple boosts. That's basically a free turn for something to come in to resist. At that point, you better hope you have the right Hidden Power or else you're going to get forced out and lose those boosts before you do anything. Serperior's defenses and typing are not nearly good enough to just sit there until you're at +6 and keep firing away.

    Plus, Serperior is destroyed by some of the most common DW-legal pokemon. Excadrill outspeeds in Sand and almost always has X-Scissor...Genesect is almost always scarfed and has U-Turn/Bug Buzz...ScarfChomp is legal...Blaziken can Protect for a Speed Boost, or take a hit while it uses Swords Dance...

    Just sitting there spamming mindlessly is not a winning strategy for Serperior, you *need* to play wisely with Substitutes to get anywhere with it.
  14. Vein

    Vein

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    Again just wondering, can he pull a +6 off under screens?

    EDIT: I know it's a dumb question coz you really need to play carefully, but again...
  15. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    There's no definite answer, so "it depends". Generally it's tough to get to that point, but depending on the Hidden Power it's possible. You still have to play wisely because of how many common pokemon there are that can tank a hit and OHKO back, under screens those are only turned into 2HKOs.
  16. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I'm currently using the SubSeed set on my DW team and I must say that it's been amazing. It can come in on many Water-types and set up a Sub, thanks to a lot of them only carrying Scald and non-attacking moves. Then it can easily take them out with Leaf Storm and keep its Sub up to get a hit on/Leech Seed one of its counters.

    Also, things like Heatran, Dragonite, and Lati@s can be shaky counters to SubSeed Serperior, even if it's carrying HP Fire. If they come in while Serperior has a Sub up, it can often simply hit them with Leech Seed and then spam Substitute until they're within KO range of Leaf Storm. Heatran really needs Flame Charge or Choice Scarf and Dragonite really needs Dragon Dance, so they can then outspeed Serperior and KO it before it can put the Sub back up.

    Also, a minor correction to the sets. Any set running Leftovers (and possibly any set) should run 4 SpDef instead of 4 HP. 4 HP makes Serperior's HP divisible by 4, while not making it divisible by 16. This means that if Serperior uses Substitute or takes damage from 3 layers of Spikes and gets 4 turns of Leftovers Recovery, it will end up with 1 less HP than it started with. Also, putting 4 EVs in SpDef ensures that Genesect will get an Atk boost when it comes in, which I've found to make it much less potent than if it gets a SpAtk boost.
  17. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    +2 and +4 Leaf Storm with SR on the field will be a pretty huge deterrent for Chandelure to come in. People exaggerate Chandelure's bulkyness, it has the defenses of a wet bag most of the time. I'm sure it's no surprise to everyone though that Serperior is for sure one of the most amazing pokemon in DW. Just one opportunity to set up (I run a Scarf set) is instant GG.
  18. kuja20

    kuja20

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    Yeah, on a Chandelure without any HP or SpD investment, Leaf Storm is a 2HKO (assuming Serp has max SpA with a neutral SpA nature).

    Unless Chandy is scarfed, it isn't going to be switching in on a Leaf Storm.
  19. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Steamroll, forgotten that Venusaur has also made his way back to OU :P
  20. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Yeah, I think it'll come down to just how good 113 Spe is in this metagame. If I were to use this set in Standard, I'd certainly go with Leech Seed because he already outspeeds just about everything. However, if DW ends up having a slightly higher speed tier then I'd opt for Glare. It's very difficult to switch a slower Pokemon into Serperior and still come out on top as you'll likely have to eat a Leaf Storm followed by a +2 Leaf Storm or you'll just get Leech Seeded to death so it's often better to switch in a faster Pokemon if you have one - Glare is priceless in those situations.
  21. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    huh, I just realized that the counters section I added in were never saved, lol, time to edit OP.
  22. HardCore

    HardCore

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    Glare Serperior is really the best set in my opinion. Leech seed doesn't help nearly as much as glare helps make Serperior that much faster than the rest of the opponents team. Also with the 50/50 para chance Serperior is more likely to get +4 and sweep a team as long as the hidden power chosen is good enough. I recently faced one and was only hoping it had leech seed because that would be of no real disadvantage to my team. Hidden power rock probably gets the best coverage out of all the options too. Hp Rock hits major counters like Volcarona and Dragonite. Boosted it also does decent damage to Heatran and Genesect, who will more than likely be paralyzed.
  23. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    You should also move the 4 EVs out of HP on the SubSeed set so its HP isn't divisible by 4.

    I've found that HP Ice works best on the SubSeed set when paired with Chandelure, or it's at least better than HP Fire. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress can take your attacks if you don't run HP Fire but Chandelure can trap and KO them easily if they don't run Shed Shell. Scizor and Genesect would also be troublesome, but the former is almost never OHKO'd by HP Fire after SR damage and the latter will outspeed you with a Choice Scarf. Both will then use U-turn to break your Sub and go to something that can outspeed you and take your attack.

    Dragonite and Salamence are obvious targets of HP Ice, but Latios is another important target for it. Latios will never be 2HKO'd by Leaf Storm after SR damage (although, LO recoil will probably push it over) while +2 HP Ice will always OHKO it after SR and Leaf Storm damage. HP Ice is also useful for other Serperior, as it allows you to at least Speed tie any of them because you can run a Speed IV of 31.

    Heatran doesn't care whether you run HP Ice or Fire and Volcarona can be checked by Chandelure. Although, Glare could be very useful in this instance to cripple Volcarona.
  24. Vemane

    Vemane

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    One of my favorites is a simple scarf/specs variant

    Shove in lead to leave holes orbring in mid game to sweep

    Haveno clue what ya'll are talking about in terms of itbeing hard toget to +6...

    1. Leafstorm on switch/fodder
    2. Leafstorm on whatever comes in
    3. Leafstorm
    4. They all die
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Another option for Serperior, that noone has mentioned yet is Twister. Yeah you heard well. With SR in play it 2hkoes Salamence if it comes in on Leaf Storm. It can also deal ~54% to offensive Dragonite at +2 and with a LO, which is not bad, considering the fact that it allows you to carry a HP different than ice to deal with other threats.

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