Setsuna's Round 3 QC Assignments (Tentacruel, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Cresselia)

[Setsuna]

Hello! As most of you have seen by now this is the new system that we, the Quality Control team, will be using for discussing what to do with the current on-site analyses that need a revision. As for me, in this thread is where I'll be discussing my ideas regarding the Pokemon Tentacruel, Umbreon, Vaporeon, and Cresselia. What I have in mind for now:

Tentacruel
- Test the Sleep Talk Support set. I haven't used or seen this set more than a few times when playing in SU, and it kind of looks promising for the current metagame. So I really want to check this set out entirely and perhaps improve it if needed / possible.

- Test the Swords Dancer set. It is pretty uncommon to find someone using this set of Tentacruel, and I obviously mean in a truly competitive way or team. At the end if it ends up convincing the QC team, there will be then a few things that are going to be reworded such as the mention of "2HKOing physically defensive Pokemon like Skarmory and Forretress" since nowadays many players use these two with a specially defensive orientation and hence the 2HKO with Hydro Pump + LO is not achieved.

Umbreon
- Test the Curse set. I've always doubted about this set's effectiveness. There are two reasons why people don't use Curse Tyranitar instead, and these are: 1) Umbreon has access to Wish | 2) Tyranitar adds three problems to his weaknesses' prospect (Steel-, Ground- and Water-types). Umbreon and Tyranitar are two really different Pokemon, but when it comes to comparing these two sets in particular, we get then that Tyranitar has an HP base stat slightly higher than Umbreon's, a much more interesting Attack BP, and reaches a partially better number of Special Defense when being under SS. On the other hand, while Umbreon can pass Wish to his teammates and such, it cannot live against Toxic Spikes or poison in general; however, CurseTar uses Rest which solves the aforementioned problem -- Umbreon can obviously do the same thing, but then it looses one of his "charismatic" details: Wish. Lastly, the most worrying point when comparing these two guys is the rest of weaknesses that Tyranitar has to deal with, though maybe this particular detail isn't entirely relevant as Tyranitar offers some other things that Umbreon can't accomplish, like that monstrous Attack BP, SS, coverage against other types, and so. Anyways, at the end of the round there will be a consensus as for this set's permanence. In the meantime I'll concentrate on getting a better idea of all this. If anyone feels like weighing in on this aspect in general, don't hesitate to do so.

- Test the Support set, as it looks like Blissey would be a better candidate for using most of those moves.

Vaporeon
- This thread will receive an update in the next few days with proper commentary, new EVs listing, and some stuff written from zero.

Cresselia
- She looks fine overall, but obviously every set needs to be tested and functionally checked.

 

[Zystral]

I was thinking of starting a Tentacruel update, so I'll await your results before I begin. =)

Remove SD altogether imo. it's a gimmick. and not even the surprise value makes up for it. You lose a lot of bulky potential, you lose valuable TSpikes/Spin support and you don't even do anything amazing with it, since you only 2HKO at +2 (with Waterfall), It doesn't have that great power and is actually very easy to stop.
RestTalk Tentacruel's EVs need tweaking, but the set has potential.

 

[Philip7086]

If someone's considering using SD Tenta, their team obviously isn't prioritizing spinning, and probably doesn't benefit from Toxic Spikes support, so mentioning that the set doesn't allow Tentacruel to use those is pretty moot. I personally thing the set has some potential, because fast Pokemon (bast 100 here) with natural bulk can usually pull the surprise sweep off pretty easily. Also, having a STAB combination that's unresisted bar Empoleon is really sweet. Who knows, the set could be surprisingly good. Please test and report back Setsuna :P

 

[Setsuna]

Update!

Tentacruel
Sleep Talk Support: As I thought, this set performs really really well. I have to say that I am enormously pleased with its effectiveness. I have been using three different spreads for this set, which I'll list below:

Spread #1: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD | Calm nature (listed in the analysis on-site)
Spread #2: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD | Calm nature
Spread #3: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD | Calm nature (spread from the Toxic Spiker set)

Each one of these spreads work well, but there are slight differences that I noticed when testing. The first spread tanks special attacks surprisingly well (i.e. makes the likes of LO Starmie, Rotom-A, LO Heatran to 3HKO Tentacruel and no less); however, I felt that I could use a bit more of Defense in order to do a more comfortable job against both Infernape's and Lucario's Close Combat, as well as against physical attacks in general. So that's when I came up with the second spread (which I happened to tune myself). This spread makes Tentacruel hit 212 points of Defense and 323 of Special Defense, meaning that physically-based MixApe's Close Combat will deal an average damage of the 35% instead of 42%, which was the result when making calcs in the past with the listed spread in the current analysis. On the other hand, by still having a stat of 323 SpD, Tentacruel is able to take special hits fairly well, per example: CS Heatran's Earth Power will always be a 3HKO factoring in SR; 0 SpA Rotom-A deals around (42.86% - 51.10%) of damage with Thunderbolt, meaning that Rotom will always fail the 2HKO when there's no SR in the field (note: even with SR down there is a small chance of not accomplishing the 2HKO); LO Starmie on the other hand deals around (45.05% - 53.30%) to Tentacruel, which puts it in almost the same situation as Rotom, though Starmie will always manage the 2HKO if SR is taken into account, otherwise T-bolt is a 3HKO. While Tentacruel can't return the damage to most of these opponents, it can either set up a layer of Toxic Spikes or Rapid Spin away opposing hazards. The spread of the Toxic Spiker set works pretty well too. It makes Tentacruel have a bit less of Defense compared to the spread #2 (from 212 to 196) but a slightly better Special Defense (from 323 to 341). However, the differences between each stat of SpD in the spreads #2 and #3 aren't major, as the only real accomplished detail when using the latter is securing the 3HKO against most of the aforementioned Pokémon. In short, I've found the second spread to be the best one, at least for now because I still want to test it out some more.
Apart from this, if it's worth it, the name of this set should be changed to something like "RestTalk Support" IMO, since Rest is probably the most important move of the set.

Right now I'm giving the Swords Dancer set a hard test period, so I still don't want to weigh in on it.

Vaporeon: I've given a few updates to the thread listed in the OP, mainly EVs changes, calcs and some rewording. Although I haven't finished it yet and I'm not done with the Baton Pass set either, you can take a look at it and weigh in if you wish as well.

That's all for now.

 

[MetaNite]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71790

Here is the Umbreon set I proposed. It's OU so it is irrelevant that it is better in UU. I'm pretty sure every Pokemon should have an analysis focused on the tier it is currently in, and as it is, Umbreon doesn't have one from this year... And now the Curse and Support sets are being removed. While you're at it, why don't you just remove Gallade's analysis because Lucario is better?? Come on, at least the Swords Dance set. Maybe Heracross' too....

And I wasn't able to respond to you guys since you locked the set before I got a chance to see it, but that Umbreon is very good with Blissey as a partner rather than a competitor. Guess Blissey doesn't have to worry about Calm Mind Latias now though, lucky her. Too bad she doesn't have that 110 base Defense.

 

[Setsuna]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71790

And now the Curse and Support sets are being removed. While you're at it, why don't you just remove Gallade's analysis because Lucario is better?? Come on, at least the Swords Dance set. Maybe Heracross' too....

I fail to see and comprehend the necessity of saying this. QC decisions are taken in group and tested if needed as well, this is not a one-man work in any case. In regard to the set of Umbreon that we rejected, the decision was general and detailed. If you remained perturbed and hence with some things to ask/add due to the fact that you couldn't answer to the posts in question, you should have PMed us, otherwise you have an opportunity now to do so in this thread. However, I believe the set you proposed is quite similar to the Support Umbreon that's already on-site. So what I see possible is the one on-site being updated, at best. But this is something we'll see later after having tested the set sufficiently.

On the other hand, there is no set being removed for the time being. If at the end of this round one/two/three sets get removed, it'll be after we reach a general consensus between the personnel of Quality Control.

This thread remains open for all those users who would like to add something relevant and useful in reference to one or some of the Pokémon that are being tested.

 

[Sir Azelf]

SD Cruel isnt a gimmick. It still 2hko's Impish Sp.Def Skarm with SR up with H-Pump and also 2HKO's it with SD LO Waterfall.

Speaking of which id emphasize how good a stall breaker it is via including calcs.

252 Att / 80 S.Att / 176 Speed @ Lonely vs Common stall pokes.

Hydro Pump Vs 252 HP / 0 SDef Neutral Hippowdon 87.1% - 102.9%
Hydro Pump Vs 252 hp / 252 SDef Neutral Forretress 46.9% - 55.4%
Hydro Pump Vs 252 HP/0 SDef Neutral Skarmory 61.4% - 72.8%
+2 LO Waterfall Vs Max HP/Max Def Bold Blissey 63.0% - 74.1%
+2 LO Poison Jab Vs Max HP / Max Def Bold Celebi 88.1% - 104.5%
Hydro Pump Vs Max Hp/ 0 SDef Neutral Swampert 41.6% - 49.0%
Hydro Pump Vs 252 HP / 80 SDef Neutral Rotom-A 44.41% - 52.30%
+2 LO Poison Jab Vs Max HP / Max Def Impish Gyarados 52.5% - 61.9%
+2 LO Poison Jab Vs Max HP / Max Def Suicune 40.1% - 47.5
+2 LO Waterfall Vs 252 HP / 120 Def foe Tentacruel 40.9% - 48.4%

Stealth Rock guarantees alot of these ohko's and 2hko's so id mention its importance in supporting this set.

I also have a log, its not the best but it shows what it can do. Ill post it if you want.

 

[Setsuna]

These calcs look really promising. I've been a couple of hours playing with SD Tentacruel, analyzing the spread and everything in general, and it doesn't really seem to me like a "gimmicky set". And yeah, any feedback is welcome ;)

 

[Blue Kirby]

Just a thought - it may be worthwhile for Tentacruel to run 285 Speed instead of 280 for its SD set. That makes sure you outrun max +Spe base 80 Pokemon (in OU, notably Mamoswine and perhaps somewhat Togekiss and Dragonite). Losing 5 points from Attack doesn't really seem to be too much of a hindrance based on the calculations posted by Sir Azelf.

 

[RaikouLover]

I almost think 288 should be the new OU benchmark, at least for Tentacruel. Jolly Gyarados with Earthquake are becoming more common (fucking Jolteon), so you can at least finish one off if you have to...

 

[Zystral]

Regarding Speed, I prefer 285 as opposed to 288. Even if they are not Dragon Dancing, you aren't doing much to Gyarados outside of Poison Jab, so it forces you out regardless.

I also take back what I said about SD Tentacruel, but as per BK's comment, an EV spread of 232 Atk / 80 SpA / 196 Spe would be more efficient.

And again, on the subject of EV spreads, I'm still not sold on 252 HP on Tentacruel. If you see my thread for the Update, I fine-tuned an EV spread which made is bulky enough to be able to survive, while using the EVs more efficiently. If you could at least try 232 HP / 196 Def / 80 SpD, since that takes some EVs out of HP in order to beef up the defences a little more. This makes a lot of difference in the higher end, especially if you choose to run Accupressure over Toxic Spikes, since the stat's boost makes it somewhat larger.
Speaking of Accupressure, I did my own testing, and while a standard attacker worked well, RestTalk/Accupressure/1 Attack wasn't as bad as I feared, since you can boost defences to become a solid tank while still developing power on your attack of choice.

Accupressure would just go into AC of RestTalk though, I don't think it's worth a set.

 

[Setsuna]

Final update!

And again, on the subject of EV spreads, I'm still not sold on 252 HP on Tentacruel. If you see my thread for the Update, I fine-tuned an EV spread which made is bulky enough to be able to survive, while using the EVs more efficiently. If you could at least try 232 HP / 196 Def / 80 SpD, since that takes some EVs out of HP in order to beef up the defences a little more. This makes a lot of difference in the higher end, especially if you choose to run Accupressure over Toxic Spikes, since the stat's boost makes it somewhat larger.
Speaking of Accupressure, I did my own testing, and while a standard attacker worked well, RestTalk/Accupressure/1 Attack wasn't as bad as I feared, since you can boost defences to become a solid tank while still developing power on your attack of choice.

Accupressure would just go into AC of RestTalk though, I don't think it's worth a set.

I would like to encourage you to run some calculations using the spread you have in your thread and the one I decided to use after my tests. Compare the differences in damage, and everything else; I think you'll get then to a solid conclusion. In my opinion, RestTalk Tentacruel is a Pokemon whose role is to serve as a sponge of both physical and special attacks, when permitted. This means that Tentacruel should not only focus on countering Infernape but should also be able to threaten other Pokemon such as Heatran. Additionally, it should effectively take hits from both sides of the spectrum as well. Below I'll list the number of HP, Defense, and Special Defense Tentacruel reaches when using both spreads, respectively:

Spread: 232 HP / 196 Def / 80 SpD | Bold nature
HP: 359
Defense: 215
Special Defense: 296

Spread: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD | Calm nature
HP: 364
Defense: 212
Special Defense: 323

As you can see, without needing to show calculations, the difference in terms of performance between each spread is quite notable.

On the subject of Accupressure, I don't think it should be even mentioned in AC, as it is quite a poor move by itself; it gets to be even worse when used on this particular set of Tentacruel who only attacks with Surf. From my experience when testing RestTalk Tentacruel, Toxic Spikes is almost a must, as they don't only hurt some important Pokemon such as Infernape and Starmie, but also prevent Vaporeon, Blissey, and SubSeed Shaymin (the first two being non-cleric variants) to wall you all the way out. So yeah, this is what I think about all this.

Continuing with my QC notes, this is what I've decided (and in some cases debated with other QCers):

Tentacruel
- Sleep Talk Support: My decisions remain without changes. I'd also like to see this set named "RestTalk" or "RestTalk Support".

- Swords Dancer

• New spread to be used (thanks to Blue Kirby for the respective input): 232 Atk / 80 SpA / 196 Spe.
• The slash of Adamant as an optional nature to use should be removed, as if it's used Tentacruel won't be able to utilize Hydro Pump properly.
• A Hasty nature and a spread of: 212 Atk / 80 SpA / 216 Spe should be mentioned in AC. The spread allows Tentacruel to outrun max Spe Gliscor (a huge threat to Tentacruel) and OHKO it with Hydro Pump. The lose of power should be mentioned as well; perhaps showing some of the calcs that I put in my post below this one would be the appropriated thing to do.
• Reword a couple of sentences that refer to Hydro Pump vs. Skarmory, Hippowdon, etc.
• Emphasize on the threat that Pokémon such as Flygon and Gliscor pose to this set, and therefore the importance of having teammates who can eliminate them in order to make Tentacruel's sweeping much easier. The current analysis only mentions Metagross and Swampert as threats.

Umbreon

• Remove the Curse set. CurseTyranitar does this much better. *More info regarding this conclusion can be found in the OP of this thread*.
• Remove the Support set. Blissey can use Wish, can use Toxic, can use Protect, Blissey doesn't fear U-turn as much as Umbreon does, Blissey can switch in on Gengar's Focus Blast while Umbreon can't (even using Careful 252 HP / 252 SpD Focus Blast from LO Timid Gengar is a secure 2HKO 100% of the time) and most of special attacks in general. In short, Blissey is a better supporter.
• The Trap Passer set is quite outdated. The only purpose for using all those Spe EVs is to concretely outspeed Taunt Skarmory, the rest of Taunters (Gliscor, Aerodactyl, Gyarados...) are faster anyways. So I think these EVs should just be removed. Finally, there are three aspects that have to be written: how to use the set / explanation of the spread / Pokémon that pose a threat to the set.

Cresselia

• Remove Calm Mind set. I believe Suicune does a more fine job at using Calm Mind for several reasons, being the following the main one: Suicune is not weak to either Scizor's U-turn or Tyranitar's Crunch, two important Pokémon of the OU metagame that happen to prevent Cresselia from using CM effectively. Cresselia also has to rely on Moonlight for recovering health, and this is probably the most unreliable self-recovery move of the game, and it also has a low PP number. Cresselia's CM movepool is fairly limited as well, as it needs HP Fighting to prevent Tyranitar and Heatran from walling her, but she also needs HP Fire in order not to get walled by Scizor. Finally, people can argue Rest can be used instead of Moonlight, but this opens a great opportunity to other sweepers to set up and attempt to destroy your team. In short, this set should be removed.
• The rest of Cresselia is fine.

Vaporeon

• Fake Tears set removed. Mention Fake Tears in OC, and also mention Haze.
• I've already finished all calc notes regarding the Wish Support set, and the Baton Pass set is being re-written.

So yeah, these are my final results for my QC Pokemon. I look forward to hearing what the other QCers have to say in regard to what has been removed / improved. Obviously, any other user willing to weigh in his thoughts is also welcome.

 

[Zystral]

Okay, I believe what you say, and I did a little more playing, and I now do agree in the Calm Nature Spread for Tentacruel.

As for Accupressure, I still believe it has its uses, while in gimmick situations, it has worked for me a small number of times. I believe that is enough to warrant Other Options?

Thanks a lot Setsuna, if you could summarize and post your thoughts about Tentacruel into the thread I have in QC atm (for reference) then that would be brilliant.
here

 

[RaikouLover]

On the subject of Accupressure, I don't think it should be even mentioned in AC, as it is quite a poor move by itself; it gets to be even more bad when used on this particular set of Tentacruel who only attacks with Surf. From my experience when testing RestTalk Tentacruel, Toxic Spikes is almost a must, as they don't only hurt some important Pokemon such as Infernape and Starmie, but also prevent Vaporeon, Blissey, and SubSeed Shaymin (the first two being non-cleric variants) to wall you all the way out. So yeah, this is what I think about all this.

Toxic Spikes becomes a useless move after used twice. Then your stuck with a 1/3 chance of doing something productive move while sleeping. Accupressure definately deserves a slash or AC mention because Tentacruel really has nothing else to do. I thought it was agreed that RestTalk sets with no boosting move on pokemon with weak offenses is absolutely disguistingly horrible in this metagame.

 

[Warped Worlds]

Maybe mention a Spe+ nature with the Swords Dancing Tentacruel in other options, or additional comments? It may prove useful to outrun stuff like Gliscor.

 

[Setsuna]

Toxic Spikes becomes a useless move after used twice. Then your stuck with a 1/3 chance of doing something productive move while sleeping. Accupressure definately deserves a slash or AC mention because Tentacruel really has nothing else to do. I thought it was agreed that RestTalk sets with no boosting move on pokemon with weak offenses is absolutely disguistingly horrible in this metagame.

I personally would rather mention Rapid Spin. However, don't worry, for situations like this one is why I would like other QCers to weigh in.

Maybe mention a Spe+ nature with the Swords Dancing Tentacruel in other options, or additional comments? It may prove useful to outrun stuff like Gliscor.

Not really. By doing this Tentacruel would lose some important power (for instance the ability to OHKO max Def Celebi with SR down) and that is rather important in my opinion. Teammates that can remove the likes of Gliscor and Flygon is the way to go.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I don't agree with removing Umbreon's support set. It has specific advantages over Blissey.

It has the advantage of being able to take on a select few Pokemon that can set up on/eventually beat Blissey (Rotom, SubSplit Gengar, etc). It has much, much better physical defense (for reference 252/92 Careful Umbreon stands a decent chance of tanking +1 Outrage from DD Mence, although it won't be very happy about doing so). Importantly, it can tank Draco Meteor -> Outrage from MixMence most of the time if Sandstorm is up (and has a tiny tiny chance of doing so even if sand is up) while also being able to tank 2 Outrages from the same MixMence if you fuck up your prediction. You mention U-Turn from Scizor, but Blissey is nearly as vunerable to it (0/252 Calm takes 80-93% from CB Scizor's U-Turn) and much more vulnerable to Pursuit from Scizor and Tyranitar, which is definitely at least as important. Umbreon also has Synchronize, which is arguably better than Natural Cure on any set that carries Heal Bell.

Blissey obviously has important advantages (access to thunderwave, access to seismic toss, being fatter and pinker, etc) but I certainly would not say that Umbreon is outclassed in the support area.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

You do realize that Umbreon's support set has already been rejected, right?

Umbreon is stunningly bad in OU. It can't take on Gengar because it gets cleanly 2HKOed by LO Focus Blast, and beating Rotom-A is not especially special because any Blissey with a special attack beats Rotom-A.

Also note that 0/252 Calm is not the spread for Blissey- 252 HP / 252 Def takes something stupid like 53-63% from Scizor U-turn, which is significantly better than the "no chance of survival" that Umbreon has.

Also what is Umbreon doing when it survives that +1 Outrage? Unlike Blissey, it can't ever threaten Salamence due to its general lack of status attacks, move coverage, or anything ever.

Umbreon simply doesn't work as an OU supporter. Trust me, I've tried.

 

[Epic Cherubi]

Not really. By doing this Tentacruel would lose some important power (for instance the ability to OHKO max Def Celebi with SR down) and that is rather important in my opinion. Teammates that can remove the likes of Gliscor and Flygon is the way to go.

Celebi can't do much back to you and unless it runs max/max at full health its going to die to +2 Poison Jab regardless.

Gliscor can OHKO you and easily counter unless you have perfect prediction with Hydro Pump. It can revenge kill anyway. If you run Jolly and preferably max speed you can wipe it out instantly.

Jolly outruns most Zapdos, Celebi, all Suicune, Lucario (not important) and doesn't lose out on all that much power.

+2 Jolly LO Poison Jab

252/252 Bold Blissey: 62.75% - 73.95%
252/80 Timid Celebi: 103.96% - 122.28%
252/224 Bold Celebi: 83.17% - 98.02%
252/80 Timid Zapdos: 61.72% - 72.92%
4/0 Gyarados: 83.38% - 98.19%
252/176 Gyarados: 56.60% - 67.01%
4/0 Salamence: 81.87% - 96.98%
252/252 Vaporeon: 47.84% - 56.47%
252/252 Porygon 2: 46.52% - 54.81%
252/252 Suicune: 36.63% - 43.32%
4/0 Timid Suicune: 58.94% - 69.50%
168/120 Careful Snorlax: 53.88% - 63.82%
4/0 Starmie: 98.85% - 116.79%
136/156 Starmie: 74.24% - 87.46%

+2 Jolly LO Waterfall

252/4 Tyranitar: 102.48% - 120.79%
252/4 Careful Skarmory: 50.60% - 59.58%
252/4 Sassy Forretress: 47.74% - 56.21%
252/4 Spiritomb: 69.41% - 81.91%
4/0 Rotom: 88.43% - 104.55%
252/252 Rotom: 51.32% - 60.53%
252/80 Sassy Bronzong: 55.03% - 64.79%
12/12 Empoleon: 39.74% - 47.12%
4/0 Jirachi: 66.67% - 78.36%
4/0 Lucario: 107.80% - 126.95%
252/4 Machamp: 70.57% - 83.59%
252/0 Scizor: 66.28% - 77.91%

Tentacruel has to deal more with its frailty then damage. It can run Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes in the last slot for support. Even Safeguard.

Edit:

Jolly LO Hydro Pump

252/4 Impish Skarmory: 58.38% - 69.16%
252/4 Relaxed Forretress: 62.71% - 74.01%
252/4 Hippowdon: 91.90% - 108.57%
252/4 Gliscor: 105.08% - 123.73%
4/0 Timid Heatran: 86.07% - 102.17%
252/0 Rotom: 45.72% - 54.28%
4/0 Lucario: 69.15% - 81.91%
252/0 Scizor: 51.45% - 60.47%
252/0 Metagross: 43.96% - 52.20%

As for the Swords Dance calcs, Tentacruel doesn't gain much by running Adamant besides a guarentee to OHKO Celebi after rocks, which in most cases it will do when Jolly anyhow. Also who switches Celebi into Tentacruel, since it commonly runs Sludge Bomb and can lay Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin against it with ease. A small amount more damage to an uncommon opponent isn't worth totally sacrificing any ability to tangle with faster Zapdos, Celebi or Gliscors. You at worst speed tie with Salamence when Jolly too.

 

[RaikouLover]

Was messin around with Tentacruel today.

Calm - 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpDef is the way to go. 364 HP / 216 Def / 319 SpDef. Thats a bonus point, and most efficient IMO. Shit survived a Rhyperior Life Orb earthquake I was like wtfffffffff

 

[Conflict]

Theres no way a Tentacruel can survive a Earthquake from LO-Rhyperior without a Shuca Berry (or beforehand reduced ATk of that Rhyperior).

Maybe you intimitated Rhyperior beforehand?

Even though your statement was not entirely true the spread looks promising.
With this spread Tentacruel is able to counter every set of Infernape aside from the odd SD-Set with Thunderpunch.

 

[shrang]

Umbreon simply doesn't work as an OU supporter. Trust me, I've tried.

While I agree with this, it's probably the only option that it has without running something gimmicky like Mean Look-Pass or something like that. With all the noobs abusing Umbreon in OU (For what reason, I have absolutely no idea), it's going to need something in its OU analysis.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

ML-Pass is the only fairly unique thing it has in its repertoire, so that's probably going to be the extent of its OU analysis.

 

[cim]

Chokehold Umbreon (Mean Look / Yawn / Protect / Baton Pass) is the only thing I could ever get to work decently in OU. It can basically survive any one attack and other than Scizor it's hard to stop. Everything else with it is terrible.

 

[Setsuna]

@Epic Cherubi: Apart from the fact that some of those spreads that you listed are not the ones people use the most, the calculations are also wrong, at least until the ones I've checked now. The first thing to note when changing Tentacruel's nature to Hasty is that you're not only doing this, but moving a few EVs from Attack into Speed in order to reach a stat of 319 as well, which is what Tentacruel needs to outspeed max Spe Gliscor. The drop of Attack is important, from 262 to 229, and it marks some differences. Let me provide you with some stats:

Neutral Attack Poison Jab & Neutral Attack Waterfall | 212 Atk EVs:

• +2 Jolly Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 252 / 220 Bold Celebi: (79.21% - 93.56%) --> 46% of being an OHKO with SR / SR+SS.
• +2 Jolly Poison Jab/Waterfall (+LO) vs. 4 HP / 252 Bold Blissey: (60.28% - 71.01%) [Note: with the spread that you listed the damage scored was something between 55~62%.]
• +2 Jolly Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 156 / 96 Adamant Gyarados: (63.51% - 74.86%) --> Will never be an OHKO even with SR+SS.
• +2 Jolly Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 0 / 4 Adamant Gyarados: (88.22% - 104.23%)
• +2 Jolly Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 188 / 252 Bold Vaporeon: (47.77% - 56.47%) --> Not a secure 2HKO without SR.
• +2 Jolly Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 0 / 4 Timid Starmie: (94.64% - 111.88%)
  ---
• +2 Jolly Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 Careful Skarmory: (48.50% - 57.49%)
• +2 Jolly Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 Impish Skarmory: (44.31% - 52.40%)
• +2 Jolly Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 176 Impish Skarmory: (38.62% - 45.81%) --> At risk of failing the OHKO even with SR.
• +2 Jolly Waterfall (+LO) vs. 0 / 4 Timid Rotom-A: (84.65% - 100.00%) --> Can fail the OHKO even with SR.
• +2 Jolly Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 252 Bold Rotom-A: (49.34% - 58.22%) --> Without SR, it could be a 3HKO.

(+)Attack Poison Jab & (+)Attack Waterfall | 232 Atk EVs:

• +2 Lonely Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 252 / 220 Bold Celebi: (88.12% - 104.46%) --> This is a secure OHKO with SR down.
• +2 Lonely Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 156 / 96 Adamant Gyarados: (71.35% - 84.32%) -- major chance to OHKO factoring in SR damage.
• +2 Lonely Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 188 / 252 Bold Vaporeon: (53.12% - 62.95%) --> Unavoidable 2HKO with SR.
• +2 Lonely Poison Jab (+LO) vs. 0 / 4 Timid Starmie: (106.13% - 125.29%)
  ---
• +2 Lonely Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 Careful Skarmory: (51.69% - 61.02%)
• +2 Lonely Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 Impish Skarmory: (46.89% - 55.37%)
• +2 Lonely Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 176 Impish Skarmory: (40.96% - 48.59%) --> 2HKO with SR.
• +2 Lonely Waterfall (+LO) vs. 0 / 4 Timid Rotom-A: (95.02% - 112.03%) --> Pretty much an OHKO.
• +2 Lonely Waterfall (+LO) vs. 252 / 252 Bold Rotom-A: (55.26% - 65.13%) --> 2HKO with SR.

As for the calculations with Hydro Pump, I'll assume you have taken a Jolly nature and 80 SpA EVs, otherwise the damages shown are way far from the real ones.

(-)Special Attack Hydro Pump:

• Jolly Hydro Pump (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 Impish Skarmory: (55.69% - 65.57%)
• Jolly Hydro Pump (+LO) vs. 252 / 252 Impish Skarmory: (40.42% - 47.90%) --> Not doing much here, you are probably better using Waterfall instead.
• Jolly Hydro Pump (+LO) vs. 252 / 88 Impish Hippowdon: (76.19% - 90.48%) --> What a disillusion. (Note: (84.76% - 100.48%) is the damage scored when using a neutral nature)
• Jolly Hydro Pump (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 neutral Rotom-A: (43.42% - 51.32%) --> Better off using Waterfall.
• Jolly Hydro Pump (+LO) vs. 252 / 0 neutral Metagross: (41.48% - 48.90%) --> Can fail to accomplish the 2HKO with SR. (Note: (46.15% - 54.40%) is the damage scored when using a neutral nature)

In short, Jolly is not such a great idea and I'm not planning on adding it to the analysis. However, I see perfectly viable mentioning an optional spread in AC, one that makes reference to the possibility of outspeeding Gliscor and OHKO it with Hydro Pump in exchange for some power.

Was messin around with Tentacruel today.

Calm - 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpDef is the way to go. 364 HP / 216 Def / 319 SpDef. Thats a bonus point, and most efficient IMO.

This is kind of pointless in my opinion. You're doing pretty much anything by using 16 Def EVs extra and 16 SpD EVs less... I believe you are just damaging yourself.