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Shades of Red

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Nubagator, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Shades of Red

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    INTRODUCTION

    About 3 weeks ago, I began playing NU. OU had become really stale after all the tier shifts, and I was looking for a vacation if you will. I'd spent some time playing Ubers before, UU didn't seem that fun at the time, additionally I had no idea what I was doing in RU. After reading Goodbye, by Zebraiken, I decided to give NU a try, and boy am I glad I did. Contrary to popular belief NU is actually a very strategic, very interesting tier with lots of unexplored possibilities. The following team sort of came about after a lot of trial and error, but all in all it was a fun learning process, and I really hope this tier gets the attention it deserves!

    When I started Nu I was sort of flailing about, not knowing what I was doing. My original team was pretty much offensive threats that had the most hype + things that counter them. While this was actually fairly successful, the team changed a lot as I grew more knowledgable. I began to take proper precautions against the wide variety of threats in the tier, and ultimately became a better player. While the bottom of the ladder sort of turned me off to the tier as a whole, once I managed to weasel my way up I started losing a lot more, and that was a very good thing. Losing to stuff gave me insight on how to combat it, and how to be a better NU player in general. I must have lost to Amarillo at least 20 times :S, but it improved me, and I started experimenting with more stuff. I played with NU stall a bit, and saw a new aspect of the tier, which really helped develop this team. This is the finalized product of my 3 weeks in NU, and I'd like to share my first real NU team since the RMT section is sort of Lacking. This has been a blast to play with, and somewhat successful peaking at #5 with 1361 points. I'm also gunna count this as commemorating 100 posts :] , and a send off to Faladran :[ . In any case I give you Shades Of Red, and I hope you enjoy this RMT nearly as much as I have enjoyed this team :D


    TEAMBUILDING

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    I began with Jynx, Regirock, Cacturne, Camerupt, Jumpluff, and Quagsire. This team was somewhat defensive, and used Hazards along with Jumpluff and Jynx to force switches. Occasionally Jynx or Cacturne would checkmate people, but there were some serious issues with this team. Cacturne in most cases wasn't able to check threats effectively, and set up spikes. And I seriously struggled with full on stall.

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    I replaced Cacturne with Swords Dance Absol, and never looked back. Absol is always valuable, and with his decent speed, gargantuan attack, and priority sucker punch he always contributes. It also aided me a bit against stall, since there's no hard defensive counter to a +2 LO Absol Amomolola comes close, but it struggles to do too much back. While this was a significant improvement I was still a little bit troubled.

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    Regirock had very little offensive presence, and despite being able to take hits well on both sides of the spectrum he was really underwhelming. I'd played people using Golem to great success and I gave him a try over Regirock. His Stab EQ, and Sucker Punch are both helpful, and with a fairly offensive spread I was impressed by his performance.

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    Lastly Toxic spikes were wearing my team down with ease, and on top of that Jumpluff, despite being incredibly annoying, just wasn't that helpful. It would Sleep something first turn, and then just sort of waste time. In the end I decided to try Vileplume over the Cutemon, and have been very satisfied with the results. Reliable recovery, Aromatherapy support, and a solid offensive presence has cemented it as a key poke on my team.

    IN DEPTH

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    Golem (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch
    - Toxic


    Golem is a really underrated option for combating birds and the like. He can take on Swellow, Altaria, Braviary, Dodrio, and random normal types better than anything else, and I find use for him in every match, whether it be as a defensive pivot, or as a an improv check to something. Max Hp and max attack may seem a bit odd, but he manages to outpace stuff like Camerupt, and Quagisre without any investment, and I find that the increased bulk is pretty helpful. Full investment in attack let's him deal some hefty damage and keeps random stuff from getting a free switch in. The move-set is fairly standard, and the only real change I'm considering is swapping out toxic for Stealth Rocks, and then Placing Stone Edge on Camerupt to improve my odds against Cryogonal, who happens to be a major annoyance. Rock Blast seems rather questionable in place of say rock slide or stone edge, but it's very handy against random users of substitute, granted Golem should generally be getting out of the way of most sub users, so I could see Stone Edge having more use here. Currently Toxic is valuable for catching things like Mesprit or Quagsire on the switch, but other than that it doesn't see too much if any use.

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    Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 236 HP / 56 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Lovely Kiss


    I love, love, love SubCM Jynx. I think it is insanely unappreciated, and should definitely be seen as something to be both fear and loved. This Jynx has found a place on almost all of my teams, because of it's ability to pose a massive threat late game, and Check Goreybyss like nothing else. With 236 Hp EVs, I'm able to take Hp grasses, much better than the Standard NP Jynx. Hp grass is always a 4HKO from modest LO gorebyss, and is NEVER a 2HKO after rocks. Alternativly NP Jynx is ALWAYS 2HKO'd. Granted both variants will out-speed, but still I prefer the slight increase in durability. The Speed EV's allow me to outpace all boosting nature base 90s, and the 56 Satk EVs were just nabbed off of some Analysis.

    I will generally lead Jynx, to try to sleep something and get an early burst of momentum unless I know I'll need Jynx for sure, and have no room for error, or I feel confident that they're lead will be able to handle her. The move-set is fairly standard, I've considered running Psycho shock over Lovely kiss, but the coverage isn't really improved much, and despite smashing Cryo, I think Lovely Kiss is a more reliable move over all (except when it misses which is all the time.) CM may seem underwhelming with little offensive investment, but her outstanding base 115 Satk, coupled with her solid Sdef , and Substitute blocking status makes it more than just a viable option imo. Ice Beam is the only attacking move, but with stab and it being fairly unresisted in the tier, it's really the only attack she needs. Amomolola can't possibly touch you behind a sub, Torkoal and Magmortar are still hit fairly hard, making Probopass or Cryogonal with haze probably the best hard stop to Jynx. Jynx generally either serves as a Gorey pivot, or it sweeps late game. It actually has a pretty wide range of things that it can set up on, and can turn itself into a massive offensive threat after 1-2 Cms

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    Absol (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Night Slash


    Absol's main selling point is Sucker Punch coming off of a massive 394 attack with a life orb boost. Proper prediction allows you to revenge essentially anything in the tier. Absol can clean up my messes, and still pose a large threat with swords dance and an average speed stat. Sucker Punch play mind games with potential revengers such as Rotom-S, and superpower absolutely destroys things like Regirock that vainly hope to wall it. I'm running adamant because while I could see the reasoning for Jolly, I find more often than not I can't out-speed offensive threats with the investment, and I already outpace slower ones without it. Absol is never my initial answer to really anything, since he doesn't have the bulk to switch in on stuff, and it's generally safer to bring him in after something goes down or is put to sleep. The move-set is very self explanatory, and I'm not really considering switching it for anything. No pokemon can really do what Absol does for this team, and I definitely recommend trying him out if you haven't.

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    Vileplume (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Effect Spore
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 144 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Moonlight
    - Aromatherapy


    <3 <3 <3 Vileplume sees essentially no usage since it can't spike like some other Grass and Poison types in the tier, it's the middleman. While it doesn't have much to set it apart, it's typing, relative bulk, and ability to support the team have made it a much better poke than I had expected it to be. Vileplume serves as my go-to-switch-in for Sawk, and with the EV spread it can tank close combats relatively well. The remaining EVs went into Special Attack, allowing VilePlume to OHKO Gorebyss after rocks and keep a fair offensive presence. the last 4 EVs obviously went into speed because I speed creep on everything. Vile can switch into lots of Water and Grass types in the tier with essentially nothing to fear, and is an incredibly useful pivot. Vile was initially put in as a Jumpluff replacement since It can absorb toxic spikes which previously destroyed my team.

    Aromatherapy is really, really handy, allowing me to heal off an unlucky freeze on Quagsire, or a frozen Camerupt. Moonlight provides reliable 50% recovery, unless rain is up, which doesn't see a ton of usage. Giga Drain and Sludge bomb are obligatory stab moves, and coming off a base 100 Satk, with some investment they can actually, come in handy. Effect spore is also pretty cool adding the chance for random stating. Vile can switch into lots of defensive threats, and come out relatively unscathed thanks to it's typing and general bulk making her a solid final addition to the team.

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    Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spd
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Toxic


    Quag Quag. This derby mudfish thing is very, very capable despite his looks. this defensive set and unaware let's him wall a considerable amount of the tier, and even if he is always prepared for he still manages to clutch wins fairly often. Having a water type stab is really nice considering the dependancy on rock types in the tier, and the relative lack of solid grass types outside of Cacturne (and Vileplume :] ) This is a set everyone should be familiar with so I won't bother explaining it in too great of detail. Basically he provides a solid backbone for the team, and has a pretty cool ability in unaware, allowing him to stop stuff like Carracosta and the mighty Samurott. Toxic is for essentially any and all bulky annoyances, whom I don't really mind trading toxics with thanks to Vile. Between EQ and Scald I can at least hit most things for decent damage, and keep on trucking. I'm kind of lost on what to really say about him, he's a badass, counters loads of stuff, has instant recovery, and he doesn't afraid of anything.

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    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar


    Camerupt is a strong Mon, despite losing some viability with the recent tier shifts. He's now holding down the fort as a check to Magmortar, Elektross, and other random Pokes he can handle. While he may be one of my favorite pokes aesthetically he doesn't preform all that well. His typing is sort of crummy, and with low speed and average defenses he can be pretty easy to power through some times. That said he almost always get's up rocks and makes himself at least somewhat useful. Lava Plume and Earth power actually hit pretty hard despite the lack of investment, and he often finds himself whittling down stuff like Misdreavus. On top of rocks and pretty cool dual stabs he's probably the least useful member of the team overall, despite holding off Magmortar, and Co. He can handle random stuff Like Baton Pass with roar, as well as phaze out random stuff attempting to boost up on him, which while helpful is often a bit risky.


    CONCLUSION

    NU is an awesome tier, and I'm glad I gave it a shot. while a lot of users may just see it as a screw-around-with-random-stuff tier, it definitely has a very competitive aspect. This team isn't the best in the world, and I'm not that great of a player, but I've had a blast with these guys down here, and couldn't not preserve this team in RMT form. This is also going to commemorate roughly 100 posts on smogon despite being a member for almost 2 years and lurking for 3 and a half >_>. Lastly RIP Faladran. I spent/spend a lot of time on his site, am a mod on the chat, and I even wrote some on-site content. It simply won't be the same without him. Adios you extremely ambitious, pony-loving, RMT mod.
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    THREAT LIST
    NU is chalk full of pokes, here's a very short segment dedicated to a few of the things I have the most trouble with:

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    Cryogonal: I HATE this thing. With it's massive Spdef I'm left with very few options. Absol and golem can both take it out thanks to it's pitiful base defense, however should they be out of action my only really chance is to Toxic it with Quaggy. Jynx can sort of combat defense variants not running Haze, but seriously this thing sucks balls.

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    Butterfree: I know, I know Butterfree? Trust me I've been crushed by QD butterfree with less resistance than any other threat. It's pretty damn uncommon, but god I hate it. QD/Sleep powder/Bug Buzz/Sub with tinted lens has legitimately 6-0'd me before :S

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    Cinccino: why this thing doesn't have more usage is beyond me. Fast as hell, and with loads of power, it can tear through me with bullet seed, sweep slap, and whatever else it wants to run. it has trouble coming in, and can be best combatted by Vileplume. While not a threat I have a set answer for, it's not too too hard to beat.

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    Exeggutor: ahhhhh specs leaf storm ahhhhhhh. No reliable switch in, chances are something will die. I have a x4 grass resist and a psychic immunity, but come on it's specs executor, something will die.

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    Absol: This is a bit tricky to play around and nothing really likes combatting it. Jynx can win prediction games, and Vileplume can take it on if unbolted. Quaggy's a decent answer but having him on low health can be a real pain if I need to deal with something else.

    DEFINITE CHANGES AFTER RATES

    -Golem swapped out rock blast for stone edge
    -Golem traded with Camerupt SR for toxic
  2. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    i like this team A LOT. It uses some good Pokemon in really effective ways, and I must say Vileplume impresses me (where as SubCN Jynx just SCARES ME AAAAHHHH ban this please). Just some quick stuff, since I think the synergy is really tight and that changing members is a bad idea.

    First of all, please for the love of god use Stone edge on Golem. Yes, breaking subs is nice, but most of the pokemon that use substitute (Jynx, Mesprit, etc.) are not things that Golem needs to stay in on anyway. Plus, its rock blast. Come on. Secondly, you might consider throwing some special defense EVs at Vileplume. I know that Jynx counters Gorebyss to hell and back again, but it's SR weak and using substitute with some frequency, so if it's at around 50% and you see a Life Orb Gorebyss, you won't survive the encounter. I'd also be concerned with Exeggutor, who can basically spam Leaf Storm and do a lot of damage to the team. I think you might be able to survive a Psychic, with some investment. I'm not sure what the physical defense is for, since Quagsire does a jolly good job of stopping Samurott, Sawk and the like.

    You might also consider swapping toxic and stealth rock on golem and camerupt. Firstly, I think Golem is a lot easier to get in than Camerupt, since everybody is packing a bird or a normal or just a physical sweeper! Secondly, i think Camerupt can make better use of Toxic, since the kind of things you'd want to toxic (mismagius, mesprit, other bulky shit) are better handled by Camerupt. The other thing is if you try to toxic a bulky mon and it uses substitute, with golem you're boned whereas with Camerupt you can just phaze it out.

    In conclusion; rip fally :'( Oh and I saw Butterfree on the threats list and said to myself, wow he really has played amarillo 20+ times XD GL man!
  3. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,476
    Amarillo sucksssss xD
    Yeah his team is so annoying lol.

    On to the team, i really like it, i saw you battling once with that vileplume and it seem like a very unortodox, yet effective, mon. Btw, you are kind of weak to CBSawk (especially with spikes support) since basically it 2HKOes quagsire and vileplume with enough layers (and you don't have spinner) and it OHKOes the rest of the team. Also your team is slow as balls so it makes it even worse. Maybe having a bit more of deffense on vileplume will help at checking him better.

    Oh, and why do you run max def on quagsire? I mean, it could be beneficial to split it up a bit, to take on things like mix carracosta better or something.

    Gl with the team ^^
  4. VN.

    VN. HiGHE$T Kn0vvN B0DY CouNT
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    988
    Hey man, really cool team! I want to say I've fought it on ladder, but that might have been another Vileplume team.

    Anyhow, it seems like this team would really love a revenge killer for stuff like Cinccino and Absol, like you mentioned. Ironically enough, scarfing your own Absol is an excellent answer to opposing Absol since it gets Superpower and resists Sucker Punch and can also afford to run Pursuit in order to trap Cryogonal, can allow you to eliminate it quickly so that you can keep SR up. Scarf Absol remains powerful and has a good [by NU Standards] speed tier to abuse with a Scarf, while Sucker Punch can cover most threats it doesn't outspeed.

    Absol Set:

    Show Hide
    Absol (M) @ Choice Scarf
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    Trait: Super Luck [or Justified, but Night Slash is illegal w/ it]
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Night Slash
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch/Psycho Cut


    On Golem, you could try a Lum Berry over Leftovers, since you could shake off Butterfree's Sleep Powder and then KO it with Rock Blast. I imagine this would definitely be useful in that it surprises most opponents but also eliminates the threat of Butterfree sweeping.

    I thought this rate was longer, but hopefully it helped. Good luck with the team and have fun playing NU!
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,080
    To be honest I wouldn't scarf your Absol, since an opposing Absol's Sucker Punch will still KO despite the resist if boosted. You also need to keep Absol the way it is to revenge kill Cinccino. You could attempt a Jolly nature, since most run Adamant... However, as you said, the benefits of an Adamant nature tend to outweigh those of a Jolly nature. Quagsire should generally be enough to beat opposing Absols though. A Curse set may be interesting in order to screw over even the most powerful of physical attackers.

    Damn this is a nice team. Sorry for the lack of suggestions, but this seems incredibly solid the way it is. How high on the ladder are you? And damn, where do you get those lovely pics?
  6. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Choice Banded Sawk is a monstttteeeerrrrr. Luckily for me it's fairly uncommon, as scarf sawk tends to be the predominate set. Sadly here's really no way I can patch up that weakness without a Misdreavus or defensive Mesprit. I can kind of combat it as jynx is faster, but other than that I guess it's a tricky mon to play against. I run Max def on Quaggy, because I just do. I suppose a more Spdef bulky set could be helpful, but his physical bulk is one of his reasons for being on the team. If there is a superior EV spread that I'm unaware of (lol), I'd love to see it. Thanks for the rate bro! Maybe my next Team will envolve CB Sawk...

    Man, I don't care about the length, as long as you read it and actually took the time to rate:D. Scarf Absol is a pretty interesting idea, and i may give it a shot, but the pretty big drop in power, and the inability to threaten Stall seems like a pretty big turn off.
    Lum berry on Golem might be pretty cool, I'm a bit concerned about the lack of recovery on switch-ins and healing off BBs, but I'll be sure to give it a shot.

    Thanks, I think I'm in the teens or twenties atm. I went on a losing streak because of my idiocy, Hax, and updating my PO, which I only later realized had reset my abilities. (that awkward moment when Jynx takes loads of damage from surf.) Haven't been for a bit thanks to school :S The pics are from Qbone: http://qbone.org/images/dex/art/ though judging by your Avy you may have already found them.


    Smith, sucks. I'm taking all of your suggestions aside from the Vileplume spread, which I feel is fine as is. Vile already has the natural bulk to Take at least one of almost any hit, and I really feel that the defense and Spatck are more important. It might be cool for stalling out Misdreavus 1 v. 1 or just taking random hits in general but idk. Thanks for the awesome rate!

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