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Shaymin (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Endorfins, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier that is filled with noxious Poison-types, industrial Steel-types, and suffocating Fire-types, the nature-loving Shaymin has its work cut out for it. As a Grass-type, Shaymin is forced to compete against the immensely popular Roserade, who has access to Sleep Powder, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. However, Shaymin has many advantages over its competition and indeed the whole tier. Its signature move Seed Flare has no nasty side effect such as the Special Attack drop associated with Leaf Storm. In fact, Seed Flare has a wonderful side effect of cutting your opponent's Special Defense in half, and has a large chance of doing so. Another way Shaymin differentiates itself from its competition is its access to numerous high-powered special moves such as Psychic and Earth Power. Shaymin also boasts a base 100 stat spread across the board allowing it to take even some super effective hits. However, Shaymin's Grass typing leaves it exposed to common attacking types such as Flying-, Bug-, and Fire-type attacks. Shaymin also has trouble getting past Pokemon that resist its STAB moves, especially since its coverage moves are not amazingly strong. While Shaymin may not have access to Sleep Powder or Spikes like its fellow Grass-type Roserade, its excellent coverage and base 100 stats all-round make it a major contender in the UU arena.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Life Orb set makes the most of Shaymin's unique coverage and powerful STAB attack. Although its base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, it is more than adequate, especially with such a powerful signature move. With its resistances to common Water-, Ground-, and Grass-type attacks, Shaymin finds many opportunities to switch in and unleash its powerful attacks. Seed Flare is Shaymin's STAB move of choice; not only does it have the same base power as moves such as Hydro Pump and Thunder, it also comes with a secondary effect that sends shivers down the spines of walls. The 40% chance to halve your opponent's Special Defense lets Shaymin get past even the bulkiest of walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon. Earth Power allows Shaymin to hit the Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types that resist Seed Flare; otherwise excellent Shaymin switch-ins such as Victini and Cobalion are swiftly removed with correct prediction. Psychic patches up Shaymin's coverage, especially against threats such as Crobat and Heracross who both resist or are immune to Seed Flare and Earth Power. Psychic is also the strongest move Shaymin has to hit the omnipresent Roserade. However, Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit Flying- and Dragon-types such as Zapdos, Togekiss, and Flygon super effectively; while Air Slash deals with Grass-types such as opposing Shaymin and has a chance to flinch the opponent. As Shaymin can already hit most of UU with just three moves, it can opt to use a support move in the last slot. Synthesis and Rest both provide Shaymin with a means of restoring HP lost to entry hazards, Life Orb, and stray hits Shaymin is forced to take. Synthesis is a reliable recovery move that grants Shaymin 50% of its HP back with every use, but Rest is a viable alternative as it fully restores Shaymin's HP and removes status. Open switching out, Shaymin can remove its sleep condition thanks to Natural Cure. Although this Shaymin is being used in an offensive manner, keep in mind that it still has excellent 100 / 100 / 100 defenses which let it take even weak super-effective hits if need be, and retaliate with its powerful Life Orb-boosted assaults.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin's Speed is maximized and a Timid nature is used to ensure that Shaymin can at least Speed tie with other Pokemon with base 100 Speed such as Victini. Special Attack is also maximized to allow Shaymin to hit as hard as possible. Even with maximum investment, base 100 Special Attack can only go so far in a tier where attacking stats over 140 are commonplace; to help boost Shaymin's power, a Life Orb should always be used as the item. Although the health gained back from an item such as Leftovers is appealing, without a power boost, Shaymin is too weak to be a threat to most teams. Although the listed moves give Shaymin the best coverage, there are other move options that are viable. Hidden Power Fire incinerates Escavalier and does excellent damage to Bronzong, especially after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare. It also obtains coverage on Bug and Grass-types which resist Seed Flare. Leech Seed can act as a more offensive way for Shaymin to regain health, and is especially useful against bulky walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon who normally have high HP stats for Shaymin to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>As Shaymin is a Grass-type, it fits in well on standard Fire / Water / Grass cores, where its teammates can cover its weaknesses. Water- and Fire-types such as Slowbro and Chandelure can take Fire-, Ice-, and Bug-type attacks for Shaymin. In return, Shaymin sponges Water- and Grass-type assaults. A Rock- or Steel-type such as Rhyperior and Registeel can take Flying-type attacks for Shaymin, and they can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Shaymin against Pokemon such as Togekiss and Zapdos.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Seed Flare
    move 3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Substitute / Protect
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin can also use a classic strategy in SubSeed to continuously weaken the opponent and restore Shaymin's health. However, Shaymin's excellent offensive presence compared to Pokemon such as Whimsicott means that it can run a viable offensive Leech Seed set. While most SubSeed users are dependent on Leech Seed to do damage, Shaymin wields a powerful Seed Flare that can slice through most of the metagame and forces numerous switches for Shaymin to take advantage of. Leech Seed saps the HP from common walls such as Snorlax who often switch into Shaymin; their high HP stats mean that Shaymin and its teammates can potentially recover a lot of health. As Grass-types wall the SubSeed combination as well as resisting Seed Flare, Shaymin must use a coverage move to prevent itself from being walled. Psychic hits the most common Grass-type hard, Roserade, while also taking down common switch-ins to Shaymin such as Crobat. Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice allow Shaymin to still hit Roserade without being totally helpless against opposing Shaymin. Protect can be used instead of Substitute as it helps Shaymin safely steal more of the opponent's health with Leech Seed, as well as make prediction against Choice item users significantly easier. However, be careful when using Protect, as it gives your opponent an opportunity to set up a Substitute or use boosting moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this Shaymin works by using Leech Seed followed Protect or Substitute, it still invests fully in offenses. Shaymin's excellent base 100 Special Attack and Speed stats distinguish it from other SubSeed users such as Whimsicott and Tangrowth who don't hit as hard. However, an alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe keeps Shaymin's Speed while maximizing bulk. A Timid nature lets Shaymin keep up with the important base 100 Speed tier which includes dangerous threats such as Flygon and Victini. The choice of item on this set largely depends on how you want to use Shaymin; Leftovers lets Shaymin stall almost infinitely with Leech Seed and Substitute, gradually sapping away the opponents health. On the other hand, Life Orb is more useful if you want Shaymin to be more offensive and instead use Leech Seed recovery to offset Life Orb recoil.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for Shaymin are those that can cover its numerous weaknesses. A Water- and Fire-type are great teammates for Shaymin as they have excellent synergy together. Pokemon such as Empoleon, Slowbro, Chandelure, and Arcanine are all noteworthy options. Entry hazards also benefit Shaymin greatly, as Leech Seed forces many switches. Registeel and Gligar can both set up Stealth Rock, while Qwilfish can set up Spikes. Toxic Spikes are also useful as they help Shaymin stall. Leech Seed and poison damage will quickly take its toll on the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shaymin's coverage moves and base 100 stat spread mean that it can effectively use a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs. With a Choice Scarf equipped, Shaymin becomes an excellent revenge killer, being able to outspeed common threats such as Dragon Dance Kingdra and Choice Scarf Chandelure. However, Shaymin's base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, and its lack of power really shows when Shaymin isn't using a boosting item. However, Choice Specs boosts Shaymin's attacks to terrifying levels, allowing Shaymin to wipe out walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon. Unfortunately, Grass-type attacks are resisted by a whopping 7 types, while Shaymin's main coverage move, Earth Power, has no effect on Flying-types and Levitate users. As Rotom-H, Zapdos, and Venomoth are all big threats to Shaymin, Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit them hard. While it doesn't OHKO them, Shaymin can easily weaken them enough for a teammate to sweep. Shaymin's base 100 Attack stat is just as high as its Special Attack stat, and it can be further boosted with Swords Dance. Unfortunately, a physical attacking Shaymin isn't helped by its meager physical movepool that consists of only Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, and Return as viable options. While it is not quite a supporter, Shaymin can be useful to its team in ways besides attacking. With Aromatherapy, Shaymin can heal its teammates from untimely switch-ins to status attacks (stray Thunder Waves and Scald burns come to mind). Healing Wish augments this function by allowing Shaymin to fully heal a chosen teammate's HP and status ailments at the cost of its own life. This is useful once Shaymin depletes Seed Flare's PP or is otherwise no longer useful in battle. Do keep in mind that Healing Wish takes effect before the incoming teammate suffers damage from entry hazards; this gives dangerous Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon such as Darmanitan a second chance to rip the enemy team apart!</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Although Shaymin can cover almost every UU threat with its expansive special movepool, it cannot run all its coverage moves at once. Depending on what coverage moves it runs, there are different Pokemon that can counter Shaymin. If Shaymin runs Psychic, Pokemon such as Honchkrow can check Shaymin, only fearing repeated Seed Flares. If Hidden Power Ice is used, then Bronzong, Escavalier, and Heracross become excellent switch-ins to Shaymin. The latter two are especially dangerous as they can impale Shaymin with a powerful STAB Megahorn. Using Air Slash leaves Shaymin open to bulky Flying-types such as Zapdos and Togekiss who can either set up on Shaymin or just annihilate it with a super effective attack. The biggest counters to Shaymin are Specially Defensive Zapdos, Togekiss, and Rotom-H as they can sponge even super effective Hidden Powers and hit Shaymin super effectively. However, all three of these counters are weak to Stealth Rock, so their ability to wall Shaymin will be extremely restricted after numerous switch ins. Popular special walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon are also good checks to Shaymin by virtue of their immense special bulk. However, they are shaky counters at best as they lose if Shaymin achieves a Special Defense drop with Seed Flare. They are both also very susceptible to the SubSeed set as their large HP stats provide ample recovery for Shaymin and its teammates. Another way to beat Shaymin is to revenge kill it and prey on its numerous weaknesses to common attacking types. Choice Scarf users such as Victini, Darmanitan, and Chandelure can all outspeed and OHKO Shaymin with powerful STAB attacks, however, they will be severely weakened if not OHKOed if they switch into Earth Power. Yanmega fears Hidden Power Ice and Air Slash, but can outspeed Shaymin after Speed Boost activates and OHKOes with a Life Orb-boosted Bug Buzz. Although Shaymin normally views Suicune, Slowbro, and Rhyperior as excellent switch in opportunities, they can also deal heavy damage to Shaymin with Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Megahorn respectively.</p>
  2. Nas

    Nas real
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    First off, not sure if subseed is even viable with so much voltturn and Roserade being the number one used mon. HP Ice does pitiful damage with no SpAtk investment, even against offensive Roserade. (37.54 - 44.44% to offensive, 21.6 - 25.92% to Spikes) Personally, I haven't used it, so maybe some other QC members will want to weigh in on that.

    This should be the life orb set:

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Rest
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    Psychic OHKOes Crobat with rocks unless they're some dumb max HP set, and it does a lot to Heracross and Roserade. (KO's if it's their second time taking SR) Specially defensive Roserade is also 2HKOed by Psychic after SR but not by HP Ice or Air Slash. The 4 SpD EVs give an Attack boost to Download Porygon.
  3. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Granted I tested SubSeed when I wrote the first updated, and haven't since then, I don't think things have changed for it. I still think it should be pretty underwhelming, mostly because of Roserade.

    I also remembered PK saying something about another factor was that there were not many Pokémon in the tier Shaymin can take advantage of either, especially since Chansey is gone. I think it was something along those lines, and Mienshao and Scrafty are the only new additions.
  4. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Offensive subseed is the only good subseed set. And it definitely needs a strong Psychic slash, which actually 2hkos defensive roserade. Subseed lets you take advantage of bronzong, snorlax (whatever it phazes in will get a nice little HP boost, and snorlax will slowly get worn down), porygon2 (lack of lefties and weak ice beam really hurts it), togekiss, etc.
  5. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    So should I keep Sub seed and change the ev spread to offensive?
  6. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    weird as fuck, but I've actually had success with a physical Shaymin set.

    I used:

    Shaymin
    Jolly
    @Life Orb / Leftovers
    252 ATK / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Seed Bomb
    -Return
    -Zen Head Butt
    -Leech Seed

    All I have to say is:

    Life Orb Zen Headbutt v. 252 HP Roserade: 94.4% - 111.1%

    Leech Seed against anything, Rosy will switch in. Unlike aiming for a 2hko with Psychic, Roserade won't run away from this conflict. Works like a charm I might add. 100% accurate attacks are also nice. Shaymin can do surprisingly well, even without seed flare, once the enemy Roserade is gone.

    Not saying the set deserves an analysis, but maybe an OO mention. It's a nice set for teams that hate Roserade.
  7. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    @RT. - The standard Crobat is max HP, you fool. Still, yes, Psychic is the best coverage move in the current metagame and I agree it should be the main slash due to hitting all three of Shaymin's primary offensive switch-ins hard as fuck (Heracross, Roserade, and Crobat).

    Anyway, concerning the Leech Seed set. Yes, it should definitely be included, and yes, it should definitely run an offensive spread and Psychic for coverage. However, I want to see Protect slashed after Substitute, as it is really, really good and helps in dealing with all the VoltTurn that RT was referring to.

    So the sets should look like this:

    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 4: Psychic / Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    and

    name: Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Seed Flare
    move 3: Psychic / Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Substitute / Protect
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    Physical sets are OO meterial, at best, please.

    Anyway, once these changes are made I'll be ready to approve this.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Agreeing with koko & flare; Psychic should be slashed first since it deals the most damage against Roserade (who is everywhere) and is effective against Crobat (kind of a pain for Shaymin). I'd also wager that the SubSeed set is viable by virtue of being a little more reliable defensively than the standard LO set (checking water / ground types eventually takes a toll on shaymin) and being able to bypass Roserade.
  9. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Implemented the set changes!
  10. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    QC Approved 1/3
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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  12. Nas

    Nas real
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  13. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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  14. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    Shit there's one thing I messed up in my previous post: Leftovers should be slashed before Life Orb on the Leech Seed set, as it works better with Substitute and LO works better with Protect (although both still work with either move, just not as well).

    Also, your write-up currently states that Psychic deals with common U-turn users such as Crobat, but it's main use is really just hitting Shaymin's three most common switch-ins--Roserade, Crobat, Heracross.

    Hidden Power Ice should also be slashed before Air Slash on both sets, tbh, it has far more utility when facing Togekiss and Zapdos while still retaining coverage on Crobat and Roserade.

    Sorry about this, I should have definitely pointed this out before you wrote it up :(
  15. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Healing Wish is missing. Shaymin is easily the most viable user of the move in the tier, and becomes pretty useless once Seed Flare runs out of PP. At that point, you can have it do something like have it restore Darmanitan so it can go nuts for the entire rest of the battle.

    This is also a good tactic to pair alongside bulky sweepers without recovery, allowing you to rejuvenate, say, Raikou or Snorlax for a second round of sweeping.
  16. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    @Koko
    No problem!

    @SJ
    I gave it a mention in OO but I'm not sure how much you want it to be emphasized. Personally, I don't think its that useful as Shaymin already needs its four moveslots.
  17. SJCrew

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    A bit of misinformation here. You don't have to use Healing Wish on a supporting set, and there's no explanation on what it does. Remove that entire bit and try paraphrasing what I said:

    into:

  18. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Okay, I used the paragraph you made
    Also, Healing Wish does not restore PP, only Lunar Dance does
  19. complete legitimacy

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    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier that is filled with noxious Poison-types, industrial Steel-types, and suffocating Fire-types, the nature-loving Shaymin has its work cut out for it. As a Grass-type, Shaymin is forced to compete against the immensely popular Roserade, who has access to Sleep Powder, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. However, Shaymin has many advantages over its competition and indeed the whole tier. Its signature move Seed Flare has no nasty side effect such as the Special Attack drop associated with Leaf Storm. In fact, Seed Flare has a wonderful side effect of cutting your opponent's Special Defense in half, and has a large chance of doing so. Another way Shaymin differentiates itself from its competition is its access to numerous high-powered special moves such as Psychic and Earth Power. Shaymin also boasts a base 100 stat spread across the board allowing it to take even some super effective hits. However, Shaymin's Grass typing leaves it exposed to common attacking types such as Flying-, Bug-, and Fire-type attacks. Shaymin also has trouble getting past Pokemon that resist its STAB moves, especially since its coverage moves are not amazingly strong. While Shaymin may not have access to Sleep Powder or Spikes like its fellow Grass-type Roserade, its excellent coverage and base 100 stats all-round make it a major contender in the UU arena.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Life Orb set makes the most of Shaymin's unique coverage and powerful STAB attack. Although its base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, it is more than adequate, especially with such a powerful signature move. With its resistances to common Water-, Ground-, and Grass-type attacks, Shaymin finds many opportunities to switch in and unleash its powerful attacks. Seed Flare is Shaymin's STAB move of choice; not only does it have the same base power as moves such as Hydro Pump and Thunder, it also comes with a secondary effect that sends shivers down the spines of walls. The 40% chance to halve your opponent's Special Defense lets Shaymin get past even the bulkiest of walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon. Earth Power allows Shaymin to hit the Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types that resist Seed Flare; otherwise excellent Shaymin switch-ins such as Victini and Cobalion are swiftly removed with correct prediction. Psychic patches up Shaymin's coverage, especially against threats such as Crobat and Heracross who both resist or are immune to Seed Flare and Earth Power. Psychic is also the strongest move Shaymin has to hit the omnipresent Roserade. However, Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit Flying- and Dragon-types such as Zapdos, Togekiss, and Flygon super effectively; while Air Slash deals with Grass-types such as opposing Shaymin and has a chance to flinch the opponent. As Shaymin can already hit most of UU with just three moves, it can opt to use a support move in the last slot. Synthesis and Rest both provide Shaymin with a means of restoring HP lost to entry hazards, Life Orb, and stray hits Shaymin is forced to take. Synthesis is a reliable recovery move that grants Shaymin 50% of its HP back with every use, but Rest is a viable alternative as it fully restores Shaymin's HP and removes status. Open switching out, Shaymin can remove its sleep condition thanks to Natural Cure. Although this Shaymin is being used in an offensive manner, keep in mind that it still has excellent 100 / 100 / 100 defenses which let it take even weak super-effective hits if need be, and retaliate with its powerful Life Orb-boosted assaults.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin's Speed is maximized and a Timid nature is used to ensure that Shaymin can at least Speed tie with other Pokemon with base 100 Speed such as Victini. Special Attack is also maximized to allow Shaymin to hit as hard as possible. Even with maximum investment, base 100 Special Attack can only go so far in a tier where attacking stats over 140 are commonplace; to help boost Shaymin's power, a Life Orb should always be used as the item. Although the health gained back from an item such as Leftovers is appealing, without a power boost, Shaymin is too weak to be a threat to most teams. Although the listed moves give Shaymin the best coverage, there are other move options that are viable. Hidden Power Fire incinerates Escavalier and does excellent damage to Bronzong, especially after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare. It also obtains coverage on Bug and Grass-types which resist Seed Flare. Leech Seed can act as a more offensive way for Shaymin to regain health, and is especially useful against bulky walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon who normally have high HP stats for Shaymin to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>As Shaymin is a Grass-type, it fits in well on standard Fire / Water / Grass cores, where its teammates can cover its weaknesses. Water- and Fire-types such as Slowbro and Chandelure can take Fire-, Ice-, and Bug-type attacks for Shaymin. In return, Shaymin sponges Water- and Grass-type assaults. A Rock- or Steel-type such as Rhyperior and Registeel can take Flying-type attacks for Shaymin, and they can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Shaymin against Pokemon such as Togekiss and Zapdos.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Seed Flare
    move 3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Substitute / Protect
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin can also use a classic strategy in SubSeed to continuously weaken the opponent and restore Shaymin's health. However, Shaymin's excellent offensive presence compared to Pokemon such as Whimsicott means that it can run a viable offensive Leech Seed set. While most SubSeed users are dependent on Leech Seed to do damage, Shaymin wields a powerful Seed Flare that can slice through most of the metagame and forces numerous switches for Shaymin to take advantage of. Leech Seed saps the HP from common walls such as Snorlax who often switch into Shaymin; their high HP stats mean that Shaymin and its teammates can potentially recover a lot of health. As Grass-types wall the SubSeed combination as well as resisting Seed Flare, Shaymin must use a coverage move to prevent itself from being walled. Psychic hits the most common Grass-type hard, Roserade, while also taking down common switch-ins to Shaymin such as Crobat. Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice allow Shaymin to still hit Roserade without being totally helpless against opposing Shaymin. Protect can be used instead of Substitute as it helps Shaymin safely steal more of the opponent's health with Leech Seed, as well as make prediction against Choice item users significantly easier. However, be careful when using Protect, as it gives your opponent an opportunity to set up a Substitute or use boosting moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this Shaymin works by using Leech Seed followed Protect or Substitute, it still invests fully in offenses. Shaymin's excellent base 100 Special Attack and Speed stats distinguish it from other SubSeed users such as Whimsicott and Tangrowth who don't hit as hard. However, an alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe keeps Shaymin's Speed while maximizing bulk. A Timid nature lets Shaymin keep up with the important base 100 Speed tier which includes dangerous threats such as Flygon and Victini. The choice of item on this set largely depends on how you want to use Shaymin; Leftovers lets Shaymin stall almost infinitely with Leech Seed and Substitute, gradually sapping away the opponents health. On the other hand, Life Orb is more useful if you want Shaymin to be more offensive and instead use Leech Seed recovery to offset Life Orb recoil.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for Shaymin are those that can cover its numerous weaknesses. A Water- and Fire-type are great teammates for Shaymin as they have excellent synergy together. Pokemon such as Empoleon, Slowbro, Chandelure, and Arcanine are all noteworthy options. Entry hazards also benefit Shaymin greatly, as Leech Seed forces many switches. Registeel and Gligar can both set up Stealth Rock, while Qwilfish can set up Spikes. Toxic Spikes are also useful as they help Shaymin stall. Leech Seed and poison damage will quickly take its toll on the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shaymin's coverage moves and base 100 stat spread mean that it can effectively use a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs. With a Choice Scarf equipped, Shaymin becomes an excellent revenge killer, being able to outspeed common threats such as Dragon Dance Kingdra and Choice Scarf Chandelure. However, Shaymin's base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, and its lack of power really shows when Shaymin isn't using a boosting item. However, Choice Specs boosts Shaymin's attacks to terrifying levels, allowing Shaymin to wipe out walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon. Unfortunately, Grass-type attacks are resisted by a whopping 7 types, while Shaymin's main coverage move, Earth Power, has no effect on Flying-types and Levitate users. As Rotom-H, Zapdos, and Venomoth are all big threats to Shaymin, Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit them hard. While it doesn't OHKO them, Shaymin can easily weaken them enough for a teammate to sweep. Shaymin's base 100 Attack stat is just as high as its Special Attack stat, and it can be further boosted with Swords Dance. Unfortunately, a physical attacking Shaymin isn't helped by its meager physical movepool that consists of only Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, and Return as viable options. While it is not quite a supporter, Shaymin can be useful to its team in ways besides attacking. With Aromatherapy, Shaymin can heal its teammates from untimely switch-ins to status attacks (stray Thunder Waves and Scald burns come to mind). Healing Wish augments this function by allowing Shaymin to fully heal a chosen teammate's HP and status ailments at the cost of its own life. This is useful once Shaymin depletes Seed Flare's PP or is otherwise no longer useful in battle. Do keep in mind that Healing Wish takes effect before the incoming teammate suffers damage from entry hazards; this gives dangerous Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon such as Darmanitan a second chance to rip the enemy team apart!</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Although Shaymin can cover almost every UU threat with its expansive special movepool, it cannot run all its coverage moves at once. Depending on what coverage moves it runs, there are different Pokemon that can counter Shaymin. If Shaymin runs Psychic, Pokemon such as Honchkrow can check Shaymin, only fearing repeated Seed Flares. If Hidden Power Ice is used, then Bronzong, Escavalier, and Heracross become excellent switch-ins to Shaymin. The latter two are especially dangerous as they can impale Shaymin with a powerful STAB Megahorn. Using Air Slash leaves Shaymin open to bulky Flying-types such as Zapdos and Togekiss who can either set up on Shaymin or just annihilate it with a super effective attack. The biggest counters to Shaymin are Specially Defensive Zapdos, Togekiss, and Rotom-H as they can sponge even super effective Hidden Powers and hit Shaymin super effectively. However, all three of these counters are weak to Stealth Rock, so their ability to wall Shaymin will be extremely restricted after numerous switch ins. Popular special walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon are also good checks to Shaymin by virtue of their immense special bulk. However, they are shaky counters at best as they lose if Shaymin achieves a Special Defense drop with Seed Flare. They are both also very susceptible to the SubSeed set as their large HP stats provide ample recovery for Shaymin and its teammates. Another way to beat Shaymin is to revenge kill it and prey on its numerous weaknesses to common attacking types. Choice Scarf users such as Victini, Darmanitan, and Chandelure can all outspeed and OHKO Shaymin with powerful STAB attacks, however, they will be severely weakened if not OHKOed if they switch into Earth Power. Yanmega fears Hidden Power Ice and Air Slash, but can outspeed Shaymin after Speed Boost activates and OHKOes with a Life Orb-boosted Bug Buzz. Although Shaymin normally views Suicune, Slowbro, and Rhyperior as excellent switch in opportunities, they can also deal heavy damage to Shaymin with Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Megahorn respectively.</p>


    [GP]1/2[/GP]

    "setup" is the noun, "set up" is the verb
  20. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Thanks C_l, ready for check number 2!
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier that is filled with noxious Poison-types, industrial Steel-types, and suffocating Fire-types, the nature-loving Shaymin has its work cut out for it. As a Grass-type, Shaymin is forced to compete against the immensely popular Roserade, who has access to Sleep Powder, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. However, Shaymin has many advantages over its competition and indeed the whole tier. Its signature move Seed Flare has no nasty side effect such as the Special Attack drop associated with Leaf Storm. In fact, Seed Flare has a wonderful side effect of cutting your opponent's Special Defense in half, and has a large chance of doing so. Another way Shaymin differentiates itself from its competition is its access to numerous high-powered special moves such as Psychic and Earth Power. Shaymin also boasts a base 100 stat spread across the board allowing it to take even some super effective hits. However, Shaymin's Grass typing leaves it exposed to common attacking types such as Flying-, Bug-, and Fire-type attacks. Shaymin also has trouble getting past Pokemon that resist its STAB moves, especially since its coverage moves are not amazingly strong. While Shaymin may not have access to Sleep Powder or Spikes like its fellow Grass-type Roserade, its excellent coverage and straight base 100 stats all-round make it a major contender in the UU arena.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Life Orb set makes the most of Shaymin's unique coverage and powerful STAB attack. Although its base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, it is more than adequate, especially with such a powerful signature move. With its resistances to common Water-, Ground-, and Grass-type attacks, Shaymin finds many opportunities to switch in and unleash its powerful attacks. Seed Flare is Shaymin's STAB move of choice; not only does it have the same Base Power as moves such as Hydro Pump and Thunder, it also comes with a secondary effect that sends shivers down the spines of walls. The 40% chance to halve your opponent's Special Defense lets Shaymin get past even the bulkiest of walls like Snorlax and Umbreon. Earth Power allows Shaymin to hit the Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types that resist Seed Flare; otherwise, excellent Shaymin switch-ins such as Victini and Cobalion are swiftly removed with correct prediction. Psychic patches up Shaymin's coverage, especially against threats like Crobat and Heracross who both resist or are immune to Seed Flare and Earth Power. Psychic is also the strongest move Shaymin has to hit the omnipresent Roserade. However, Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit Flying- and Dragon-types, such as Zapdos, Togekiss, and Flygon, super effectively; while Air Slash deals with Grass-types, such as opposing Shaymin, and has a chance to flinch the opponent. As Shaymin can already hit most of UU with just three moves, it can opt to use a support move in the last slot. Synthesis and Rest both provide Shaymin with a means of restoring HP lost to entry hazards, Life Orb, and stray hits Shaymin is forced to take. Synthesis is a reliable recovery move that grants Shaymin 50% of its HP back with every use, but Rest is a viable alternative as it fully restores Shaymin's HP and removes status. Upon switching out, Shaymin can remove its sleep condition thanks to Natural Cure. Although this Shaymin is being used in an offensive manner, keep in mind that it still has excellent 100 / 100 / 100 defenses which let it take even weak super effective hits if need be, and retaliate with its powerful Life Orb-boosted assaults.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin's Speed is maximized and a Timid nature is used to ensure that Shaymin can at least Speed tie with other Pokemon with base 100 Speed such as Victini. Special Attack is also maximized to allow Shaymin to hit as hard as possible. Even with maximum investment, base 100 Special Attack can only go so far in a tier where attacking stats over 140 are commonplace; to help boost Shaymin's power, a Life Orb should always be used as the item. Although the health gained back from an item such as Leftovers is appealing, without a power boost, Shaymin is too weak to be a threat to most teams. Although the listed moves give Shaymin the best coverage, there are other move options that are viable. Hidden Power Fire incinerates Escavalier and does excellent damage to Bronzong, especially after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare. It also obtains coverage on Bug- and Grass-types which resist Seed Flare. Leech Seed can act as a more offensive way for Shaymin to regain health, and is especially useful against bulky walls, such as Snorlax and Umbreon, who normally have high HP stats for Shaymin to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>As Shaymin is a Grass-type, it fits in well on standard Fire / Water / Grass cores, where its teammates can cover its weaknesses. Water- and Fire-types like Slowbro and Chandelure can take Fire-, Ice-, and Bug-type attacks for Shaymin. In return, Shaymin sponges Water- and Grass-type assaults. A Rock- or Steel-type, such as Rhyperior and Registeel, can take Flying-type attacks for Shaymin, and they can also set up Stealth Rock, which helps Shaymin against Pokemon such as Togekiss and Zapdos.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Seed Flare
    move 3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Air Slash
    move 4: Substitute / Protect
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin can also use a classic strategy in SubSeed to continuously weaken the opponent and restore Shaymin's health. However, Shaymin's excellent offensive presence compared to Pokemon like Whimsicott means that it can run a viable offensive Leech Seed set. While most SubSeed users are dependent on Leech Seed to do damage, Shaymin wields a powerful Seed Flare that can slice through most of the metagame and forces numerous switches for Shaymin to take advantage of. Leech Seed saps the HP from common walls such as Snorlax who often switch into Shaymin; their high HP stats mean that Shaymin and its teammates can potentially recover a lot of health. As Grass-types wall the SubSeed combination as well as resist Seed Flare, Shaymin must use a coverage move to prevent itself from being walled. Psychic hits the most common Grass-type, Roserade, hard, while also taking down common switch-ins to Shaymin, such as Crobat. Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice allow Shaymin to still hit Roserade without being totally helpless against opposing Shaymin. Protect can be used instead of Substitute as it helps Shaymin safely steal more of the opponent's health with Leech Seed, as well as make proper predictions against Choice item users significantly easier. However, be careful when using Protect, as it gives your opponent an opportunity to set up a Substitute or use boosting moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this Shaymin works by using Leech Seed followed Protect or Substitute, it still invests fully in offenses. Shaymin's excellent base 100 Special Attack and Speed stats distinguish it from other SubSeed users, such as Whimsicott and Tangrowth, who don't hit as hard. However, an alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe keeps Shaymin's Speed while maximizing bulk. A Timid nature lets Shaymin keep up with the important base 100 Speed tier which includes dangerous threats such as Flygon and Victini. The choice of item on this set largely depends on how you want to use Shaymin; Leftovers lets Shaymin stall almost infinitely with Leech Seed and Substitute, gradually sapping away the opponent's health. On the other hand, Life Orb is more useful if you want Shaymin to be more offensive and instead use Leech Seed recovery to offset Life Orb recoil.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for Shaymin are those that can cover its numerous weaknesses. A Water- and Fire-type are great teammates for Shaymin as they have excellent synergy together. Pokemon such as Empoleon, Slowbro, Chandelure, and Arcanine are all noteworthy options. Entry hazards also benefit Shaymin greatly, as Leech Seed forces many switches. Registeel and Gligar can both set up Stealth Rock, while Qwilfish can set up Spikes. Toxic Spikes are also useful as they help Shaymin stall. Leech Seed and poison damage will quickly take its toll on the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shaymin's coverage moves and base 100 stat spread mean that it can effectively use a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs. With a Choice Scarf equipped, Shaymin becomes an excellent revenge killer, being able to outspeed common threats such as Dragon Dance Kingdra and Choice Scarf Chandelure. However, Shaymin's base 100 Special Attack isn't amazing, and its lack of power really shows when Shaymin isn't using a boosting item. However, Choice Specs boosts Shaymin's attacks to terrifying levels, allowing Shaymin to wipe out walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon. Unfortunately, Grass-type attacks are resisted by a whopping 7 types, while Shaymin's main coverage move, Earth Power, has no effect on Flying-types and Levitate users. As Rotom-H, Zapdos, and Venomoth are all big threats to Shaymin, Hidden Power Rock can be used to hit them hard. While it doesn't OHKO them, Shaymin can easily weaken them enough for a teammate to sweep. Shaymin's base 100 Attack stat is just as high as its Special Attack stat, and it can be further boosted with Swords Dance. Unfortunately, a physical attacking Shaymin isn't helped by its meager physical movepool that consists of only Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, and Return as viable options. While it is not quite a supporter, Shaymin can be useful to its team in ways besides attacking. With Aromatherapy, Shaymin can heal its teammates from untimely switch-ins to status attacks (stray Thunder Waves and Scald burns come to mind). Healing Wish augments this function by allowing Shaymin to fully heal a chosen teammate's HP and status ailments at the cost of its own life. This is useful once Shaymin depletes Seed Flare's PP or is otherwise no longer useful in battle. Do keep in mind that Healing Wish takes effect before the incoming teammate suffers damage from entry hazards; this gives dangerous Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, such as Darmanitan, a second chance to rip the enemy team apart!</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Although Shaymin can cover almost every UU threat with its expansive special movepool, it cannot run all its coverage moves at once. Depending on what coverage moves it runs, there are different Pokemon that can counter Shaymin. If Shaymin runs Psychic, Pokemon like Honchkrow can check Shaymin, only fearing repeated Seed Flares. If Hidden Power Ice is used, then Bronzong, Escavalier, and Heracross become excellent switch-ins to Shaymin. The latter two are especially dangerous as they can impale Shaymin with a powerful STAB Megahorn. Using Air Slash leaves Shaymin open to bulky Flying-types, such as Zapdos and Togekiss, who can either set up on Shaymin or just annihilate it with a super effective attack. The biggest counters to Shaymin are specially defensive Zapdos, Togekiss, and Rotom-H as they can sponge even super effective Hidden Powers and hit Shaymin super effectively. However, all three of these counters are weak to Stealth Rock, so their ability to wall Shaymin will be extremely restricted after numerous switch ins. Popular special walls, such as Snorlax and Umbreon, are also good checks to Shaymin by virtue of their immense special bulk. However, they are shaky counters at best as they lose if Shaymin achieves a Special Defense drop with Seed Flare. They are both also very susceptible to the SubSeed set as their large HP stats provide ample recovery for Shaymin and its teammates. Another way to beat Shaymin is to revenge kill it and prey on its numerous weaknesses to common attacking types. Choice Scarf users such as Victini, Darmanitan, and Chandelure can all outspeed and OHKO Shaymin with powerful STAB attacks; however, they will be severely weakened if not OHKOed if they switch into Earth Power. Yanmega fears Hidden Power Ice and Air Slash, but can outspeed Shaymin after Speed Boost activates and OHKOes with a Life Orb-boosted Bug Buzz. Although Shaymin normally views Suicune, Slowbro, and Rhyperior as excellent switch in opportunities, they can also deal heavy damage to Shaymin with Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Megahorn, respectively.</p>


    Use "like" when you're using generic, non-specific examples, otherwise use "such as" preceded by a comma to list specific examples. "Like" denotes similarity and inspecificity, while "such as" notes concrete examples. We generally use "such as" in most cases because we generally give concrete examples. When using "such as" though you have to separate the clause by commas: 'Grass-types, such as Shaymin and Roserade, are blah blah.' The exception to using a comma with "such as" is when there isn't a sufficient clause following or preceding the listed examples. So for example, if you're ending the sentence with examples: 'Shaymin hates enemy Grass-types such as Roserade.'

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  22. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    UU Leader

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    Messages:
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    i'm impatient so i uploaded this with oglemi's changes befire giving you the chance to implement them, sorry!

    well done everyone.

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