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Shaymin Revamp

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by alexwolf, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    [​IMG]
    Pursuit my ass...

    [Overview]

    <p>Shaymin is a Pokemon designed to take on the omnipresent Water-types of OU. Its great all-around stats, useful ability, reliable recovery, and strong STAB all allow Shaymin to do this job effectively throughout the game. Its good coverage means that walling Shaymin is not the easiest task if the opponent lacks a dedicated special wall. While at first glance, Shaymin seems outclassed by the other Grass-type pixie of OU, Celebi, Shaymin has its perks. The lack of a Pursuit weakness allows Shaymin to play with less fear than Celebi when Tyranitar and Scizor are lurking in the shadows. Shaymin also has a powerful STAB attack with an amazing secondary effect, which sometimes enables it to get past would-be counters such as Latias and Ferrothorn in rain. Finally, Shaymin fares better against VoltTurn teams, as its lack of a double Bug weakness makes it able to tank some weak U-turns from the likes of Landorus and Jirachi, while also not fearing Gengar as much as Celebi does.</p>

    <p>While all those traits prevent Shaymin from being outclassed, they don't make it an unequivocally better choice. Shaymin faces stiff competition from Celebi for a team slot, and due to its overall better typing and larger movepool, Celebi usually wins. Shaymin is also not so hard to switch into, as Latios, Latias, and special walls such as Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey all wall it with relative ease. Depending on the Hidden Power it carries, Steel- or Dragon-types will wall Shaymin. Furthermore, because Shaymin relies on Hidden Power Fire to hurt Steel-types, the prevalence of rain often leaves it unable to effectively damage them. To top it off, mono-Grass typing is lackluster in OU, with a lot of weaknesses and poor STAB, leaving Shaymin very dependent on its coverage moves to do any real damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin serves as a full counter to most Water-type Pokemon, excluding Life Orb Starmie and some Keldeo variants. Upon switching into most Water-types, Shaymin forces them out and tries to do as much damage to the opposition as possible with its coverage moves. Seed Flare is a powerful STAB move with a handy secondary effect that drops the opponent's Special Defense by two stages, occasionally letting Shaymin get past some of its checks and counters. Earth Power provides coverage against Fire- and Steel-type Pokemon, namely Heatran, Ninetales, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice gives Shaymin a way to hit the threatening Dragon-type Pokemon of OU, while Hidden Power Fire dents Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory. Rest in tandem with Natural Cure provides reliable recovery, and makes sure that Shaymin will stick around long enough to prevent opposing Water-types from becoming a threat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Shaymin to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are thrown into HP. If using Hidden Power Fire, use a spread of 172 HP / 140 SpA / 196 Spe with a Modest nature. This spread allows Shaymin to OHKO 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, putting the leftover EVs in HP. Leftovers is the better item overall, aiding in its role as pivot and lessening the need to Rest, but Life Orb greatly improves Shaymin's power and shortens the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into Shaymin. An all out offensive or defensive spread can be used depending on your team's needs, but Shaymin works better as a tank due to its mediocrity as an all out attacker or wall. Air Slash is an option for coverage that hits Grass-types a little bit harder than Hidden Power while having a good flinch chance; it also allows Shaymin to hit Volcarona hard on the switch and OHKOes most Breloom.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Tyranitar is a fantastic partner for Shaymin; it traps and weakens or OHKOs several obstacles to Shaymin, such as Latios, Latias, Chansey, and Blissey, while Shaymin easily takes on most Water- and Ground-types that threaten Tyranitar. Scizor can do the same jobs as Tyranitar, but has more difficulty coming in against Latios and Latias; however, it has the added benefit of being able to revenge kill slightly weakened Dragon-types with Bullet Punch. Make sure to pack a strong answer to Volcarona if you use Scizor, as it easily sets up on both Shaymin and Scizor. Any Terrakion variant is an effective way to deal with Chansey, Blissey, and Volcarona, while also taking care of Ferrothorn in rain, which Shaymin cannot break through. Heatran has excellent synergy with Shaymin, defending it from Steel-, Dragon-, and Fire-types, while Shaymin easily takes the Water- and Ground-type attacks that Heatran attracts. Another useful teammate is Gyarados. The offensive sets can switch into Scizor, Jirachi, Volcarona, Blissey, and Chansey and proceed to set up, while the defensive set checks most of Shaymin's switch-ins such as Latias, Volcarona, physical Dragon-types, and Scizor. Last but not least, a Rapid Spinner is always appeciated as a teammate, because Shaymin tends to get set up on by popular hazard setters. Tentacruel is the best option for rain teams, while Starmie is superior for sand and weatherless teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are a few more options that Shaymin can utilize. Aromatherapy, Tailwind, Healing Wish, Substitute, and Toxic are all viable moves that Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest, and each has its value. Aromatherapy is appreciated in any balanced team that has problems with status, Tailwind is good if Shaymin has partners that hit hard but lack Speed, Healing Wish can give a sweeper a second chance to sweep, Substitute makes good use of the switches that Shaymin forces, and Toxic cripples some of Shaymin's usual switch-ins such as Latios, Latias, Kyurem-B, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Shaymin can pull off a set with Leech Seed and Substitute, but this strategy is subpar in OU, and is done better by other Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Venusaur; these Pokemon can hit opposing Grass-types harder, the first due to STAB-boosted Blizzard, and the latter due to sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Shaymin, as they are the only Pokemon that remain relatively safe even if Seed Flare's secondary effect activates. Latias, Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and specially defensive Jirachi are also good counters, as they completely wall Shaymin without a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, and can either hurt it badly or set up on it. Latios is one the best checks to Shaymin, as the only way that Shaymin can do any significant damage to it is with Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb, and Latios is able to either OHKO Shaymin or force it to use Rest. Volcarona is a very good switch-in as well, provided Stealth Rock is off the field, as it takes little to nothing from any of Shaymin's attacks and procceeds to set up. Likewise, Ninetales is a pretty safe switch-in to Shaymin, as long as Stealth Rock is off the field and it avoids Earth Power. Sun teams in general are problematic for Shaymin, as they are filled with Fire-, Grass-, and Dragon-type Pokemon that can hurt Shaymin greatly and easily take its attacks, while outspeeding it most of the time. The rest of the checks to Shaymin depend on the type of Hidden Power that it runs. If Hidden Power Ice is used, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong wall it, while with Hidden Power Fire most Dragon-types shut Shaymin down. Skarmory, Broznong, and Ferrothorn don't even mind Hidden Power Fire if rain is in play, making it even harder for Shaymin to get past them. Of course, each of those checks can be beaten if Seed Flare lowers their Special Defense. Lastly, Shaymin is revenge killed by any faster Pokemon that can hit it very hard or OHKO it, such as Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Terrakion, Tornadus, and Victini.</p>
  2. Deglas

    Deglas

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    I've been using Shaymin in OU lately, so I'll throw in my two cents. An all out offensive spread isn't a good idea usually, as one of Shaymin's selling points is its longevity between bulk and Natural Cure Rest. An all out defensive spread can work, but Shaymin typically needs investment to hit hard enough (unless you want to rely on Seed Flare hax). The main reasons to use Shaymin over Celebi are lack of a secondary Psychic type and associated weaknesses, and Seed Flare. Also, Aromatherapy proabably deserves a mention in OO.

    The main checks and counters to Shaymin depend on the HP chosen. HP Ice means Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, as well as Bug types in general can wall Shaymin, and HP Fire leaves Shaymin disadvantaged against Flying and Dragon types. Celebi is ironically also a good choice against Shaymin, resisting Seed Flare and Earth Power, and being able to tank HP using its good defenses and Recover. Everything needs to watch out for Seed Flare's SpD drop, however.
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Ok guys this is now ready for QC checks if no other set needs to be added.
  4. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    For me HP Ice > HP Fire on Shaymin. Unlike Celebi, with its access to Psychic and Thunderwave, Shaymin can do virtually nothing to dragons and flying types without HP Ice, even if it gets an SpD drop. While fighting Scizor and Ferrothorn is definitely a losing proposition with HP Ice, Shaymin isn't nearly as helpless against them as it is against dragons (nor is it as helpless as Celebi is against scizor in general). You can feasibly wear scizor down with earth power, and if running LO you might even threaten to KO after a SpD drop. Ferrothorn can't actually do much back to shaymin except set up hazards.

    So yeah, HP Ice primary slash please.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah i agree with you jc, so slashed HP Ice first. Changed the EV spread accordingly to OHKO Dnite after SR with HP Ice, while mentioned in the AC the spread that allows Shaymin to OHKO CB Scizor after SR.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Be sure to modify the teammates according to the change from Hidden Power Ice.
  7. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Good

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  8. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yes

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved (2/3)
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Will do, no worries AG! Thx for the approvals guys will get this done asap!
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Written and ready for final QC check and all the stuff that follow...
  11. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Cool, alright. Just add Substitute to the list of moves "Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest," since it's bound to cause quite a few switches here and there. Oh, and while you're at it, you might also want to mention Heatran as a potential teammates since Shaymin can soak up Ground- and Water-type hits aimed at Heatran, while Heatran (ideally Sunny Day or Specially Defensive variants) counters quite a few things such as sun-based sweepers, Ferrothorn, and several Dragon-types.

    [​IMG]

    3/3
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Sure will do thx AG!
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    You might want to change the tag to "Copyediting," since this is now technically in the GP stage.

    Oh and add Substitute and Heatran, dang it :v
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I haven't put it in Copyediting because this isn't finished, aka i haven't added what you said AG(i will, just not now).
  15. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Nitpicking but Shaymin can hit other grass types via Air Slash (which apparently it gets) and HP Fire (which is what Venusaur usually uses anyway). Perhapes mention that Venusaur does it better due to greater speed and sleep powder since your current reason is a tiny bit misleading.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Ginga most Grass-types don't care at all about Air Slash or HP Fire. Ferrothorn in rain doesn't give a shit about anything, and Celebi and Amoonguss wall you anyway (as SubSeed lacks the power to get past them). Venusaur can get past them because it has a 105 BP HP Fire, a team that can keep sun up and therefore prevent Ferrothorn from walling you because of rain, better Speed, typing, and Sleep Powder.

    But anyway, write me the description about the SubSeed set however you want, and i will add it ok?

    Btw this is rdy for GP checks!
  17. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    I know you mention Kyurem-B, but Kyurem-N needs to be mentioned in C&C somewhere; it's just as good as if not better than its more powerful forme at countering Shaymin.
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Thx pokemon0078, Kyurem is mentioned!
  19. tehy

    tehy

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    Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, all the way out from California, for one night only, the stupendous, the splendiferous, the overly adjective'd... AMCHECK!!

    Show Hide

    [Overview]¶

    <p>Shaymin is a Pokemon designed to take on the omnipresent Water-types. It's great all-around stats, usefull ability, reliable recovery, and strong STAB all allow Shaymin to do this job effectively throughout the game. Its good coverage means that walling Shaymin is not the easiest task if the opponent lacks a dedicated special wall. While at first glance Shaymin seems outclassed by the other Grass-type pixie of OU, Celebi, Shaymin has its perks over it. The lack of a Pursuit weakness allows Shaymin to play more carefree than Celebi when Tyranitar and Scizor are lurking in the corner., and Shaymin also has a powerfull STAB with an amazing secondary effect, which sometimes enables it to get past would-be counters such as Latias and Ferrothorn in rain. Finally, Shaymin fares better against Volt-turn teams, as its lack of a double Bug weakness makes it able to tank some weak U-turns from the likes of Landorus and Jirachi, while also not fearing Gengar as much as Celebi.</p>¶

    <p>While all those traits prevent Shaymin from being outclassed, thisey doesn't makean that it is usually the better choice. Shaymin faces stiff competition from Celebi for a team slot, and Celebi usually wins, due to its overall better typing and larger movepool, Celebi usually wins. Shaymin is also not aso hard to switch into, as Latios, Latias, and special walls such as Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey all wall it with relative ease. Depnding on the Hidden Power it carries, Steel- or Dragon-types will wall it. What's more is that, because Shaymin relies ton Hidden Power Fire to hurt the ubiquitous Steel-types, the prevelance of rain often leaves it unable to properly damage them. To top it off, mono-Grass typing is a luckluster typing in OU, with a lot of weaknesses and bad STAB, leaving Shaymin very dependaent on its coverage moves to do any real
    damage.</p>

    ¶[SET]¶
    name: Bulky Attacker¶
    move 1: Seed Flare¶
    move 2: Earth Power¶
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire¶
    move 4: Rest¶
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb¶
    nature: Timid / Modest¶
    evs: 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe¶

    [SET COMMENTS]¶

    <p>Shaymin serves as a full counter to most Water-type Pokemon, except for Life Orb Starmie and some Keldeo variants. It gets most of its switch-in opportunites against those Water types, forces them out, and tries to do as much damage to the opposition with its coverage moves. Seed Flare is a powerful STAB move with a handy secondary effect tohat drops the opponent's Special Defense by two stages, occasionally letting it get past some of its checks and counters. Earth Power provides coverage against Fire- and Steel-type Pokemon, namely Heatran, Ninetales, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice gives Shaymin a way to hit the threatening Dragon-type Pokemon of OU, while Hidden Power Fire dents Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory. Rest in tandem with Natural Cure provides reliable recovery, and makes sure that Shyamin will stick around long enough to prevent opposing Water-types from becoming a threat.</p>¶

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]¶

    <p>The EVs enable Shaymin to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are thrown into HP. If using Hidden Power Fire, use a spread of 172 HP / 140 SpA / 196 Spe with a Modest nature. This spread allows Shaymin to OHKO 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and anythe leftovers EVs go to HP. Leftovers is the better item overall, improvaiding in its role as a pivot and lessening the need to Rest, but Life Orb greatly improves Shaymin's power and shortens the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into Shaymin. An all-out offensive or defensive spread can be used depending on your team's needs, but Shaymin works better as a tank due to its mediocrity as an all-out attacker or wall. Air Slash is an option for coverage, and that hits Grass-types a little bit harder than Hidden Power, while having a good flinch chance too; it also allows Shaymin to hit Volcarona hard on the switch, and OHKO most Breloom.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Tyranitar is a fantastic partner for Shaymin; ithe former traps and weakens or OHKOes several obstacles to Shaymin, such as Latios, Latias, Chansey, and Blissey, while the latterShaymin easily takes on most Water- and Ground-types that threaten Tyranitar. Scizor can do the same jobs as Tyranitar, but has more difficultiesy coming in against Latios and Latias; however, it has the added benefit of being able to revenge kill slightly weakened Dragon-types with Bullet Punch. Just mMake sure that if you use Scizor you willto pack a strong answer to Volcarona if you use Scizor, whichsince it easily sets up on both Shaymin and Scizor. Any Terrakion variant is an effective way to deal with Chansey, Blissey, and Volcarona, while also taking care of Ferrothorn in rain, which Shaymin cannot break through. Heatran has excellent synergy with Shaymin, defending it from Steel-, Dragon-, and Fire-types, while Shaymin gladly takes the Water and Ground attacks that Heatran attracts. Another useful teammate is Gyarados, which deals with most of Shaymin's problems. The offensive sets can switch into Scizor, Jirachi, Volcarona, Blissey, and Chansey, and proceed to set up, and the defensive set checks most of Shaymin's enemiesswitch-ins, such as Latias, Volcarona, physical Dragon-types, and Scizor. Last but not least, a Rapid Spinner is always appeciated as a teammate, because Shaymin tends to get setup on by popular hazard setters. Tentacruel is the best option for rain teams, and Starmie for sand and weatherless teams.</p>

    [Other Options]¶

    <p>There are a few more options that Shaymin can utilize. Aromatherapy, Tailwind, Healing Wish, Substitute, and Toxic are all viable moves that Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest, and each has its value. Aromatherapy is appreciated in any balanced team that has problem with status, Tailwind is good if Shaymin has partners that hit hard but lack Speed, Healing Wish can give to a sweeper a second lifchance, Substitute makes good use of the switches that Shaymin forces, and Toxic cripples some of Shaymin's usual switch-ins, such as Latios, Latias, Kyurem-B, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Shaymin is also able tocan pull off a set with Leech Seed and Substitute, but this strategy is only subpar in OU, and is done better by other Pokemon anyway, such as Abomasnow and Venusaur, which can hit hard opposing Grass-types. hard</p>¶

    [Checks and Counters]¶

    <p>Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Shaymin, as they are the only Pokemon that are not screwed if Seed Flare's secondary effect activates. Latias, Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and specially defensive Jirachi are also good counters, and ons they completely fearwall Shaymin without a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, as otherwise they completely wall Shaymin, and can either hurt it badly, or set up on it. Latios is one the best checks to Shaymin, as the only way that Shaymin can do any significant damage to it is with Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb, and Latios is able to either OHKO Shaymin or force it to use Rest. Volcarona is a very good switch-in as well, provided Stealth Rock is off the field, as it takes little to nothing from any of Shaymin's attacks and procceeds to set up. Likewise, Ninetales is a pretty safe switch-in to Shaymin, as long as Stealth Rock is off the field and it avoids Earth Power. Sun teams in general are problematic for Shaymin, as they are filled with Fire-, Grass-, and Dragon-types Pokemon that can hurt Shaymin greatly and can easily take its attacks, while outspeeding it most of the time. The rest of the checks to Shaymin depend on the type of Hidden Power that it runs. If using Hidden Power Ice thenis used, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong wall it, while with Hidden Power Fire most Dragon-types shut Shaymin off. Skarmory, Broznong, and Ferrothorn don't even mind Hidden Power Fire if rain is in play, making it even harder for Shaymin to get past them. Of 'course, each of those checks can be beaten if Seed Flare lowers their Special Defense. Lastly, Shaymin is revenge killed by any faster Pokemon that can hit it very hard or OHKO it, such as Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Terrakion, Tornadus, and Victini.</p> ¶


    Comments:
    I cut out the first sentence of Other Options-I don't feel it's necessary to say "Shaymin has some more options". If it is, keep it
    I don't feel the former and the latter should be used for CBtar and shaymin like that. If someone says it's fine go ahead anyhow
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Thx tehy, implemented!
  21. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Shaymin is a Pokemon designed to take on the omnipresent Water-types of OU. It's great all around stats, useful ability, reliable recovery, and strong STAB all allow Shaymin to do this job effectively throughout the game. Its good coverage means that walling Shaymin is not the easiest task if the opponent lacks a dedicated special wall. While at first glance, Shaymin seems outclassed by the other Grass-type pixie of OU, Celebi, Shaymin has its perks. The lack of a Pursuit weakness allows Shaymin to play more cwith less fearefree than Celebi when Tyranitar and Scizor are lurking in the cornershadows. Shaymin also has a powerful STAB attack with an amazing secondary effect, which sometimes enables it to get past would-be counters such as Latias and Ferrothorn in rain. Finally, Shaymin fares better against Volt-tTurn teams, as its lack of a double Bug weakness makes it able to tank some weak U-turns from the likes of Landorus and Jirachi, while also not fearing Gengar as much as Celebi does.</p>

    <p>While all those traits prevent Shaymin from being outclassed, they don't make it thean unequivocally better choice. Shaymin faces stiff competition from Celebi for a team slot, and due to its overall better typing and larger movepool, Celebi usually wins. Shaymin is also not so hard to switch into, as Latios, Latias, and special walls such as Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey all wall it with relative ease. Depnding on the Hidden Power it carries, Steel- or Dragon-types will wall it. What's Shaymin. Furthermore, because Shaymin relies on Hidden Power Fire to hurt the ubiquitous Steel-types, the prevalelance of rain often leaves it unable to propereffectively damage them. To top it off, mono-Grass typing is la luckluster typing in OU, with a lot of weaknesses and badpoor STAB, leaving Shaymin very dependent on its coverage moves to do any real damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin serves as a full counter to most Water-type Pokemon, except forluding Life Orb Starmie and some Keldeo variants. It gets most of itsUpon switch-ing opportunites against thoseto most Water -types, Shaymin forces them out, and tries to do as much damage to the opposition as possible with its coverage moves. Seed Flare is a powerful STAB move with a handy secondary effect that drops the opponent's Special Defense by two stages, occasionally letting it get past some of its checks and counters. Earth Power provides coverage against Fire- and Steel-type Pokemon, namely Heatran, Ninetales, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice gives Shaymin a way to hit the threatening Dragon-type Pokemon of OU, while Hidden Power Fire dents Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory. Rest in tandem with Natural Cure provides reliable recovery, and makes sure that Shyaymin will stick around long enough to prevent opposing Water-types from becoming a threat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Shaymin to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are thrown into HP. If using Hidden Power Fire, use a spread of 172 HP / 140 SpA / 196 Spe with a Modest nature. This spread allows Shaymin to OHKO 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, andputting the leftover EVs go toin HP. Leftovers is the better item overall, aiding in its role as pivot and lessening the need to Rest, but Life Orb greatly improves Shaymin's power and shortens the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into Shaymin. An all out offensive or defensive spread can be used depending on your team's needs, but Shaymin works better as a tank due to its mediocrity as an all out attacker or wall. Air Slash is an option for coverage that hits Grass-types a little bit harder than Hidden Power while having a good flinch chance; it also allows Shaymin to hit Volcarona hard on the switch, and OHKOes most Breloom.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Tyranitar is a fantastic partner for Shaymin; it traps and weakens or OHKOes several obstacles to Shaymin, such as Latios, Latias, Chansey, and Blissey, while Shaymin easily takes on most Water- and Ground-types that threaten Tyranitar. Scizor can do the same jobs as Tyranitar, but has more difficulty coming in against Latios and Latias; however, it has the added benefit of being able to revenge kill slightly weakened Dragon-types with Bullet Punch. Make sure to pack a strong answer to Volcarona if you use Scizor, as it easily sets up on both Shaymin and Scizor. Any Terrakion variant is an effective way to deal with Chansey, Blissey, and Volcarona, while also taking care of Ferrothorn in rain, which Shaymin cannot break through. Heatran has excellent synergy with Shaymin, defending it from Steel-, Dragon-, and Fire-types, while Shaymin gladeasily takes the Water- and Ground-type attacks that Heatran attracts. Another useful teammate is Gyarados, which deals with most of Shaymin's problems. The offensive sets can switch into Scizor, Jirachi, Volcarona, Blissey, and Chansey, and proceed to set up, and the defensive set checks most of Shaymin's switch-ins such as Latias, Volcarona, physical Dragon-types, and Scizor. Last but not least, a Rapid Spinner is always appeciated as a teammate, because Shaymin tends to get set up on by popular hazard setters. Tentacruel is the best option for rain teams, andwhile Starmie is superior for sand and weatherless teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are a few more options that Shaymin can utilize. Aromatherapy, Tailwind, Healing Wish, Substitute, and Toxic are all viable moves that Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest, and each has its value. Aromatherapy is appreciated in any balanced team that has problems with status, Tailwind is good if Shaymin has partners that hit hard but lack Speed, Healing Wish can give a sweeper a second chance to sweep, Substitute makes good use of the switches that Shaymin forces, and Toxic cripples some of Shaymin's usual switch-ins such as Latios, Latias, Kyurem-B, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Shaymin can pull off a set with Leech Seed and Substitute, but this strategy is only subpar in OU, and is done better by other Pokemon anyway, such as Abomasnow and Venusaur, which; these Pokemon can hit opposing Grass-types harder, the first due to STAB-boosted Blizzard, and the latter due to sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Shaymin, as they are the only Pokemon that are not screwedmain relatively safe even if Seed Flare's secondary effect activates. Latias, Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and specially defensive Jirachi are also good counters, as they completely wall Shaymin without a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, and can either hurt it badly or set up on it. Latios is one the best checks to Shaymin, as the only way that Shaymin can do any significant damage to it is with Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb, and Latios is able to either OHKO Shaymin or force it to use Rest. Volcarona is a very good switch-in as well, provided Stealth Rock is off the field, as it takes little to nothing from any of Shaymin's attacks and procceeds to set up. Likewise, Ninetales is a pretty safe switch-in to Shaymin, as long as Stealth Rock is off the field and it avoids Earth Power. Sun teams in general are problematic for Shaymin, as they are filled with Fire-, Grass-, and Dragon-type Pokemon that can hurt Shaymin greatly and easily take its attacks, while outspeeding it most of the time. The rest of the checks to Shaymin depend on the type of Hidden Power that it runs. If Hidden Power Ice is used, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong wall it, while with Hidden Power Fire most Dragon-types shut Shaymin offdown. Skarmory, Broznong, and Ferrothorn don't even mind Hidden Power Fire if rain is in play, making it even harder for Shaymin to get past them. Of 'course, each of those checks can be beaten if Seed Flare lowers their Special Defense. Lastly, Shaymin is revenge killed by any faster Pokemon that can hit it very hard or OHKO it, such as Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Terrakion, Tornadus, and Victini.</p>

    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Shaymin is a Pokemon designed to take on the omnipresent Water-types of OU. Its great all around stats, useful ability, reliable recovery, and strong STAB all allow Shaymin to do this job effectively throughout the game. Its good coverage means that walling Shaymin is not the easiest task if the opponent lacks a dedicated special wall. While at first glance, Shaymin seems outclassed by the other Grass-type pixie of OU, Celebi, Shaymin has its perks. The lack of a Pursuit weakness allows Shaymin to play with less fear than Celebi when Tyranitar and Scizor are lurking in the shadows. Shaymin also has a powerful STAB attack with an amazing secondary effect, which sometimes enables it to get past would-be counters such as Latias and Ferrothorn in rain. Finally, Shaymin fares better against Volt-Turn teams, as its lack of a double Bug weakness makes it able to tank some weak U-turns from the likes of Landorus and Jirachi, while also not fearing Gengar as much as Celebi does.</p>

    <p>While all those traits prevent Shaymin from being outclassed, they don't make it an unequivocally better choice. Shaymin faces stiff competition from Celebi for a team slot, and due to its overall better typing and larger movepool, Celebi usually wins. Shaymin is also not so hard to switch into, as Latios, Latias, and special walls such as Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey all wall it with relative ease. Depnding on the Hidden Power it carries, Steel- or Dragon-types will wall Shaymin. Furthermore, because Shaymin relies on Hidden Power Fire to hurt Steel-types, the prevalence of rain often leaves it unable to effectively damage them. To top it off, mono-Grass typing is lackluster in OU, with a lot of weaknesses and poor STAB, leaving Shaymin very dependent on its coverage moves to do any real damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin serves as a full counter to most Water-type Pokemon, excluding Life Orb Starmie and some Keldeo variants. Upon switching into most Water-types, Shaymin forces them out and tries to do as much damage to the opposition as possible with its coverage moves. Seed Flare is a powerful STAB move with a handy secondary effect that drops the opponent's Special Defense by two stages, occasionally letting it get past some of its checks and counters. Earth Power provides coverage against Fire- and Steel-type Pokemon, namely Heatran, Ninetales, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice gives Shaymin a way to hit the threatening Dragon-type Pokemon of OU, while Hidden Power Fire dents Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory. Rest in tandem with Natural Cure provides reliable recovery, and makes sure that Shaymin will stick around long enough to prevent opposing Water-types from becoming a threat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Shaymin to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are thrown into HP. If using Hidden Power Fire, use a spread of 172 HP / 140 SpA / 196 Spe with a Modest nature. This spread allows Shaymin to OHKO 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, putting the leftover EVs in HP. Leftovers is the better item overall, aiding in its role as pivot and lessening the need to Rest, but Life Orb greatly improves Shaymin's power and shortens the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into Shaymin. An all out offensive or defensive spread can be used depending on your team's needs, but Shaymin works better as a tank due to its mediocrity as an all out attacker or wall. Air Slash is an option for coverage that hits Grass-types a little bit harder than Hidden Power while having a good flinch chance; it also allows Shaymin to hit Volcarona hard on the switch, and OHKOes most Breloom.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Tyranitar is a fantastic partner for Shaymin; it traps and weakens or OHKOes several obstacles to Shaymin, such as Latios, Latias, Chansey, and Blissey, while Shaymin easily takes on most Water- and Ground-types that threaten Tyranitar. Scizor can do the same jobs as Tyranitar, but has more difficulty coming in against Latios and Latias; however, it has the added benefit of being able to revenge kill slightly weakened Dragon-types with Bullet Punch. Make sure to pack a strong answer to Volcarona if you use Scizor, as it easily sets up on both Shaymin and Scizor. Any Terrakion variant is an effective way to deal with Chansey, Blissey, and Volcarona, while also taking care of Ferrothorn in rain, which Shaymin cannot break through. Heatran has excellent synergy with Shaymin, defending it from Steel-, Dragon-, and Fire-types, while Shaymin easily takes the Water- and Ground-type attacks that Heatran attracts. Another useful teammate is Gyarados. The offensive sets can switch into Scizor, Jirachi, Volcarona, Blissey, and Chansey, and proceed to set up, and the defensive set checks most of Shaymin's switch-ins such as Latias, Volcarona, physical Dragon-types, and Scizor. Last but not least, a Rapid Spinner is always appeciated as a teammate, because Shaymin tends to get set up on by popular hazard setters. Tentacruel is the best option for rain teams, while Starmie is superior for sand and weatherless teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are a few more options that Shaymin can utilize. Aromatherapy, Tailwind, Healing Wish, Substitute, and Toxic are all viable moves that Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest, and each has its value. Aromatherapy is appreciated in any balanced team that has problems with status, Tailwind is good if Shaymin has partners that hit hard but lack Speed, Healing Wish can give a sweeper a second chance to sweep, Substitute makes good use of the switches that Shaymin forces, and Toxic cripples some of Shaymin's usual switch-ins such as Latios, Latias, Kyurem-B, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Shaymin can pull off a set with Leech Seed and Substitute, but this strategy is subpar in OU, and is done better by other Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Venusaur; these Pokemon can hit opposing Grass-types harder, the first due to STAB-boosted Blizzard, and the latter due to sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Shaymin, as they are the only Pokemon that remain relatively safe even if Seed Flare's secondary effect activates. Latias, Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and specially defensive Jirachi are also good counters, as they completely wall Shaymin without a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, and can either hurt it badly or set up on it. Latios is one the best checks to Shaymin, as the only way that Shaymin can do any significant damage to it is with Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb, and Latios is able to either OHKO Shaymin or force it to use Rest. Volcarona is a very good switch-in as well, provided Stealth Rock is off the field, as it takes little to nothing from any of Shaymin's attacks and procceeds to set up. Likewise, Ninetales is a pretty safe switch-in to Shaymin, as long as Stealth Rock is off the field and it avoids Earth Power. Sun teams in general are problematic for Shaymin, as they are filled with Fire-, Grass-, and Dragon-type Pokemon that can hurt Shaymin greatly and easily take its attacks, while outspeeding it most of the time. The rest of the checks to Shaymin depend on the type of Hidden Power that it runs. If Hidden Power Ice is used, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong wall it, while with Hidden Power Fire most Dragon-types shut Shaymin down. Skarmory, Broznong, and Ferrothorn don't even mind Hidden Power Fire if rain is in play, making it even harder for Shaymin to get past them. Of course, each of those checks can be beaten if Seed Flare lowers their Special Defense. Lastly, Shaymin is revenge killed by any faster Pokemon that can hit it very hard or OHKO it, such as Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Terrakion, Tornadus, and Victini.</p>

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/2
  22. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,152
    Oh, and apparently it's "VoltTurn", not "Volt-Turn", so please replace any instance of that in the analysis as well.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,535
    Love you Woddchuck the c/p gp check is very handy! One more to go...
  24. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego I'm not ready 4 freddy
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,884
    YOU KNOW THEDRILL

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Shaymin is a Pokemon designed to take on the omnipresent Water-types of OU. Its great all-around stats, useful ability, reliable recovery, and strong STAB all allow Shaymin to do this job effectively throughout the game. Its good coverage means that walling Shaymin is not the easiest task if the opponent lacks a dedicated special wall. While at first glance, Shaymin seems outclassed by the other Grass-type pixie of OU, Celebi, Shaymin has its perks. The lack of a Pursuit weakness allows Shaymin to play with less fear than Celebi when Tyranitar and Scizor are lurking in the shadows. Shaymin also has a powerful STAB attack with an amazing secondary effect, which sometimes enables it to get past would-be counters such as Latias and Ferrothorn in rain. Finally, Shaymin fares better against VoltTurn teams, as its lack of a double Bug weakness makes it able to tank some weak U-turns from the likes of Landorus and Jirachi, while also not fearing Gengar as much as Celebi does.</p>

    <p>While all those traits prevent Shaymin from being outclassed, they don't make it an unequivocally better choice. Shaymin faces stiff competition from Celebi for a team slot, and due to its overall better typing and larger movepool, Celebi usually wins. Shaymin is also not so hard to switch into, as Latios, Latias, and special walls such as Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey all wall it with relative ease. Depnding on the Hidden Power it carries, Steel- or Dragon-types will wall Shaymin. Furthermore, because Shaymin relies on Hidden Power Fire to hurt Steel-types, the prevalence of rain often leaves it unable to effectively damage them. To top it off, mono-Grass typing is lackluster in OU, with a lot of weaknesses and poor STAB, leaving Shaymin very dependent on its coverage moves to do any real damage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Seed Flare
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shaymin serves as a full counter to most Water-type Pokemon, excluding Life Orb Starmie and some Keldeo variants. Upon switching into most Water-types, Shaymin forces them out and tries to do as much damage to the opposition as possible with its coverage moves. Seed Flare is a powerful STAB move with a handy secondary effect that drops the opponent's Special Defense by two stages, occasionally letting Shaymin it get past some of its checks and counters. Earth Power provides coverage against Fire- and Steel-type Pokemon, namely Heatran, Ninetales, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice gives Shaymin a way to hit the threatening Dragon-type Pokemon of OU, while Hidden Power Fire dents Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory. Rest in tandem with Natural Cure provides reliable recovery, and makes sure that Shaymin will stick around long enough to prevent opposing Water-types from becoming a threat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Shaymin to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and the rest are thrown into HP. If using Hidden Power Fire, use a spread of 172 HP / 140 SpA / 196 Spe with a Modest nature. This spread allows Shaymin to OHKO 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock and outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, putting the leftover EVs in HP. Leftovers is the better item overall, aiding in its role as pivot and lessening the need to Rest, but Life Orb greatly improves Shaymin's power and shortens the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into Shaymin. An all out offensive or defensive spread can be used depending on your team's needs, but Shaymin works better as a tank due to its mediocrity as an all out attacker or wall. Air Slash is an option for coverage that hits Grass-types a little bit harder than Hidden Power while having a good flinch chance; it also allows Shaymin to hit Volcarona hard on the switch, (RC) and OHKOes most Breloom.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Tyranitar is a fantastic partner for Shaymin; it traps and weakens or OHKOes several obstacles to Shaymin, such as Latios, Latias, Chansey, and Blissey, while Shaymin easily takes on most Water- and Ground-types that threaten Tyranitar. Scizor can do the same jobs as Tyranitar, but has more difficulty coming in against Latios and Latias; however, it has the added benefit of being able to revenge kill slightly weakened Dragon-types with Bullet Punch. Make sure to pack a strong answer to Volcarona if you use Scizor, as it easily sets up on both Shaymin and Scizor. Any Terrakion variant is an effective way to deal with Chansey, Blissey, and Volcarona, while also taking care of Ferrothorn in rain, which Shaymin cannot break through. Heatran has excellent synergy with Shaymin, defending it from Steel-, Dragon-, and Fire-types, while Shaymin easily takes the Water- and Ground-type attacks that Heatran attracts. Another useful teammate is Gyarados. The offensive sets can switch into Scizor, Jirachi, Volcarona, Blissey, and Chansey, (RC) and proceed to set up, and while the defensive set checks most of Shaymin's switch-ins such as Latias, Volcarona, physical Dragon-types, and Scizor. Last but not least, a Rapid Spinner is always appeciated as a teammate, because Shaymin tends to get set up on by popular hazard setters. Tentacruel is the best option for rain teams, while Starmie is superior for sand and weatherless teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are a few more options that Shaymin can utilize. Aromatherapy, Tailwind, Healing Wish, Substitute, and Toxic are all viable moves that Shaymin can use over a coverage move or Rest, and each has its value. Aromatherapy is appreciated in any balanced team that has problems with status, Tailwind is good if Shaymin has partners that hit hard but lack Speed, Healing Wish can give a sweeper a second chance to sweep, Substitute makes good use of the switches that Shaymin forces, and Toxic cripples some of Shaymin's usual switch-ins such as Latios, Latias, Kyurem-B, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Shaymin can pull off a set with Leech Seed and Substitute, but this strategy is subpar in OU, and is done better by other Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Venusaur; these Pokemon can hit opposing Grass-types harder, the first due to STAB-boosted Blizzard, and the latter due to sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Shaymin, as they are the only Pokemon that remain relatively safe even if Seed Flare's secondary effect activates. Latias, Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and specially defensive Jirachi are also good counters, as they completely wall Shaymin without a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, and can either hurt it badly or set up on it. Latios is one the best checks to Shaymin, as the only way that Shaymin can do any significant damage to it is with Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb, and Latios is able to either OHKO Shaymin or force it to use Rest. Volcarona is a very good switch-in as well, provided Stealth Rock is off the field, as it takes little to nothing from any of Shaymin's attacks and procceeds to set up. Likewise, Ninetales is a pretty safe switch-in to Shaymin, as long as Stealth Rock is off the field and it avoids Earth Power. Sun teams in general are problematic for Shaymin, as they are filled with Fire-, Grass-, and Dragon-type Pokemon that can hurt Shaymin greatly and easily take its attacks, while outspeeding it most of the time. The rest of the checks to Shaymin depend on the type of Hidden Power that it runs. If Hidden Power Ice is used, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong wall it, while with Hidden Power Fire most Dragon-types shut Shaymin down. Skarmory, Broznong, and Ferrothorn don't even mind Hidden Power Fire if rain is in play, making it even harder for Shaymin to get past them. Of course, each of those checks can be beaten if Seed Flare lowers their Special Defense. Lastly, Shaymin is revenge killed by any faster Pokemon that can hit it very hard or OHKO it, such as Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Terrakion, Tornadus, and Victini.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Joined:
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    Thx GatoDelFuego! This is done!

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