1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Shaymin-S Vote

Discussion in 'Suspect Test Voting Site' started by Aeolus, Dec 1, 2008.

?

Shaymin-S

  1. OU

    49.6%
  2. Uber

    50.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,268
  2. Syberia

    Syberia [custom user title]
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,040
    Would you support a ban of Rotom (normal and appliance forms) as well, because they are banned from Nintendo tournaments?
  3. Darth Chicken

    Darth Chicken

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4
  4. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    I voted OU.
  5. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    I agree that you gain a better understanding of a Poke through personal usage. However, I think that in some cases, such as this one, the factors pointing to Ubers are obvious enough without personal testing, and can be seen by just facing it on the ladder alone. Of course, this is just my opinion on the subject.

    I still maintain that in the future, suspect ladders should be enforced again, with decently challenging voting criteria factored in. You are claiming that I'm biased because I haven't made a team with it yet, but I can say the same vice versa for many of the voters who qualified. They could have easily just spammed Skymin on the ladder to meet voting criteria, making them love the pokemon and want to keep their Skymin team. I'm talking about people who have not seen success battling until Skymin was introduced. This is why a ladder in which the pokemon in question is banned should be utilized, because then only people who are good regardless of the the suspect will be allowed to vote, and hopefully will make an unbiased decision.
  6. EeveeTrainer

    EeveeTrainer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    764
    What?
  7. Casty

    Casty

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Grass as the main STAB? Stealth Rock weakness? Hax-dependent? OU for me.
  8. lati0s

    lati0s

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,492
    voted uber because from my experience it can easily sweep through teams with just a little bit of luck
  9. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
    Having used Skymin on numerous occasions before, I seriously found it to be underwhelming. The insane luck required to use it both effectively and consistently means that in the end there are many better pokemon for the slot.

    With so many perfect counters in OU I really don't understand why people consider it to be Uber. In every previous instance, we banned something that had very few or zero proper counters: Garchomp was universally hailed as 'uncounterable', Wobbuffet had literally no counters because of its trapping ability, and Deoxys-E could set up screens and SR to its leisure by outspeeding and Taunting anything coming in to stop it.

    Look at the top 4 pokemon: Heatran, Scizor, Zapdos, Blissey. Each one of them can deal with Shaymin effectively. There also exist so many other pokemon that can not only switch in with impunity, but also threaten Skymin enough to force it out. The very definition of paper counter.

    Anyway, I know where my vote lies. Shaymin-S is OU.

    LR.
  10. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,745
    Actually you're missing my point (EDIT- @Philip). Don't predispose it to be Uber, not use it, and then expect everybody to vote it Uber. For one, you're weighing down usage statistics (which would help your case out a bit more), and two, you could use the team to prove to *some* people you battle that it actually IS Uber.

    I'm not making any generalizations about the requirement process. I have nothing to say on it, because I can't think of a viable alternative.

    Regardless, this is a voting topic, not a discussion topic. I am done.
  11. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    I'm done as well. Time to eat an awesome chicken bake. When this thing gets voted OU, I will proceed to rape you all ^_^
  12. Jsaok3

    Jsaok3

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    149
    Voted uber.
  13. Duskie

    Duskie Boats n Hoes

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    446
    Rape is a serious crime,sir.
  14. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,325
    voted uber lol
  15. Kier

    Kier

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,020
    voted OU
  16. Eternal

    Eternal
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,536

    I voted Uber. I don't care what anyone says Skymin leads you to use certain Pokemons like Zapdos or Crobat or Dragonite. Which decentralizes and I don't like that. Sure Skymin's Seed Flare can be stopped by things like Zapdos, (but keep in mind of SR damage and the 80% of lowering sp.def by 2 stages). It can easily destroy anything that comes in its path. Plus the 60% flinch rate is insane. You cannot compare something like Togekiss to Skymin. Never.
  17. scorchedsky

    scorchedsky

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    262
    OU, drawing a line between Togekiss/Jirachi and Skymin is lol arbitrary, "eliminating luck" is a bogus reason because you need to have an arbitrary line of "too much luck," slippery slope etc haven't all the "Skymin is UBER!" arguments been smashed into the ground already?
  18. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    860

    Name 5 counters that can switch into seed flare, and either live and outspeed or not be KOed next turn with spec def drop
  19. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,828
    Why are 5 counters needed? Are you seriously telling me that Lucario has 5 counters? Or Salamence? Or maybe you consider them uber too.

    For the record, '... counters that can switch into Seed Flare, and either live and outspeed or not be KOed next turn with spec def drop':

    Crobat
    Blissey
    Regice
    Registeel
    Dragonite
    Heatran
    Zapdos
    Scizor
    Bronzong
    Skarmory
  20. Eternal

    Eternal
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,536
    Luck is something you DON'T use effectively. Luck happens. There is no strategic way to use luck. When you use Air Slash hoping for flinch you know your circumstances if it doesn't flinch. Same thing can be said to a Paralyzed Pokemon. Why would you use Agility with Metagross hoping for 25% Paralysis hault from Paralyzed Heatran when you know the circumstances.


    I laugh at this statement.

    Heatran is unable to counter Skymin as it gets totally ruined by the common Earth Power. You may be able to revenge kill Skymin with Scarf and atleast 260 speed. But notice, revenge killing is not countering.

    Scizor as counter? Skymin's uses Seed Flare, you switch into Scizor. 80% chance of lowering your Sp.Def by TWO STAGES. Air Slash, you're done. Scizor is no way a Skymin counter.

    Zapdos as a Skymin counter? Notice Steath Rock does 25% damage on Zapdos. Which Stealth Rock is very common. If you do calculations Specs Seed Flare on Zapdos switch lowers Sp.def by TWO STAGES and does serious damage. While Another Seed Flare ruins Zapdos. Even without that a Seed Flare on Zapdos then HP Ice ruins Zapdos. Zapdos is no way a "perfect OU counter"

    Blissey gets raped by Subseeder Skymin. Simply Substitute and Leech Seed. While it leaves Blissey to have Ice Beam as a must in order to counter Skymin. Forcing something like Ice Beam on Blissey while some other moves may be more viable to your team if forcing decentralizing.

    If those are your "perfect OU counters" then I wonder what your others are...
  21. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    860
    Nah, just couldn't think of any and needed one for my team =] thanks
  22. RBG

    RBG Got a long list of ex-lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Facebook Manager

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,369
    Blissey, Skarmory, Heatran, Regice, Registeel, Bronzong, Shedinja

    Edit, Oh, and Seed flare only has a 68% chance of lowering SpD two levels (.85 * .8)
  23. Bogmire

    Bogmire

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,085
    Voted Uber
  24. scorchedsky

    scorchedsky

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    262
    Regice and Registeel can't get their Sp. Def dropped, neither can Tentacruel w/ clear body. For everyone else, the sp. def drop only happens 68% of the time, but if it does, then Zapdos, Scarf Heatran, and that makes 5 right? Skarmory really doesn't care much, Bronzong 2HKO's with Gyro Ball, and we'll toss in Scarf Gengar to make 8, which is Seed Flare's pitiful PP.
  25. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    860
    Lol, I realized i sorta sounded like i was challanging him, but to clarify, I really only wanted counters. I assume its staying, and I never bothered to build a counter to it.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)