Doubles Shaymin-S

[Empress]

Shaymin-S
QC: 3/3 (srk1214, Arcticblast, Stratos)
GP: 2/2 (fleurdyleurse, P Squared)

Overview
########

Shaymin-S's high Special Attack and Speed make it an offensive powerhouse in Doubles OU. Its Speed tier is extremely important, allowing Shaymin-S to beat many of the ORAS Mega Evolutions, particularly Diancie. Shaymin-S also gets the typing advantage over several new Mega Evolutions, particularly Diancie. Serene Grace makes Seed Flare and Air Slash very annoying to face, whether Shaymin-S is wearing down special walls for its teammates or constantly causing the foe to flinch. Shaymin-S's Grass typing prevents Spore and Rage Powder from hindering it; its typing is also great offensively, granting Shaymin-S a niche as the best offensive Grass-type in the metagame, while access to Earth Power allows it to KO Steel-types, which otherwise wall Shaymin-S. However, Shaymin-S is quite frail and has a a poor defensive typing. It also relies heavily on its Speed; as such, opposing speed control heavily cripples it.

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Protect
ability: Serene Grace
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Seed Flare is a powerful STAB attack that has an 80% chance to halve the foe's Special Defense. Air Slash is used as a secondary STAB attack; Shaymin-S's high Speed means it can easily take advantage of the move's 60% flinch rate. Earth Power is important to prevent Steel-types from walling this set. Protect is used to allow Shaymin-S to scout, avoid damaging moves, and stall out opposing speed control.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Speed and Special Attack make Shaymin-S as fast and powerful as possible. Life Orb significantly boosts Shaymin-S's damage output. At a crucial moment, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to stay in on a Pokemon it would normally lose to. It also works as a safeguard if its Air Slash fails to cause the foe to flinch. A Timid nature helps Shaymin-S outspeed Thundurus, Darkrai, Weavile, and Greninja.

Usage Tips
========

Spam Seed Flare to land Special Defense drops unless you need to use one of Shaymin-S's other moves. Air Slash and Earth Power are for coverage or, in Air Slash's case, for when you need a foe to flinch. Due to Shaymin-S's frailty, you should keep offensive pressure on the opponent and use free switches to bring it into the battlefield whenever possible. It can be switched in on weaker attacks such as Rotom-W's Thunderbolt, but even so, you cannot afford to mispredict. You can safely switch Shaymin-S into Spore thanks to its Grass typing, which allows it to heavily damage Pokemon that rely on Rage Powder support. When in doubt, scout with Protect in order to give Shaymin-S's partner a chance to remove an opposing threat, and to stall out the speed controlling field effects of Tailwind and Trick Room; most importantly, avoid opposing speed control at all costs.

Team Options
========

Fire-types, such as Heatran and Rotom-H, have great offensive synergy with Shaymin-S, as Shaymin-S super effectively hits the Ground-, Rock- and Water-types that threaten them with Seed Flare, while Fire-types cover the Steel-types that wall its STAB attacks. Nearly any fast offensive Pokemon works well alongside Shaymin-S, including Keldeo, Latios, and Mega Diancie. Shaymin-S excels in 1v1 matchups but needs a partner to take down the remaining foe. Choice Scarf Landorus-T is a good offensive partner, being able to force out Fire- and Steel-types with its STAB Earthquake. It can also Intimidate priority attackers and use Rock Slide against airborne Fire- and Electric-types, in addition to using the move alongside Air Slash to increase the chance of making the foe flinch. Quick Guard users such as Terrakion prevent super effective priority attacks such as Ice Shard or Talonflame's Brave Bird from OHKOing Shaymin-S before it has a chance to attack.

Other Options
########

Tailwind can be used over Earth Power to support Shaymin-S's teammates, but Shaymin-S lacks room for the move and is fast already, so it is better off using its STAB attacks. Substitute can be used in place of Earth Power to absorb status-inducing moves. A Modest nature with Life Orb allows Seed Flare to always OHKO standard Landorus-T, but Timid is almost always the better choice.

Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: All forms of speed control are devastating to Shaymin-S because it needs its Speed in order to be effective. If it cannot outspeed its foes, it is mostly useless. In particular, Thundurus has priority on Thunder Wave due to Prankster and resists all of Shaymin-S's moves, making it easy for Thundurus to cut Shaymin-S's Speed.

**Speed**: Priority attackers with super effective STAB attacks, such as Weavile, Mamoswine, and Talonflame, force Shaymin-S out. Neutral priority can pick it off when it is weakened, particularly from Bisharp, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Mawile. Naturally faster Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Mega Manectric and Choice Scarf users such as Landorus-T and Victini can outspeed Shaymin-S and seriously damage it. When weather is on the battlefield, weather sweepers such as Venusaur, Ludicolo, Mega Swampert, and Excadrill can outspeed Shaymin-S.

**Typing Advantage**: Anything offensive that can take a hit from Shaymin-S threatens it. Rotom-H, Thundurus, Kyurem-B, and Zapdos can tank Shaymin-S's attacks and deal serious damage in return. However, none of them can switch into Shaymin-S's Seed Flare, as they risk having their Special Defense cut in half.

**Miscellaneous**: If Shaymin-S gets frozen, it will revert to regular Shaymin for the rest of the battle. This is a rare occurrence, but it is highly detrimental. Also, Sand and Hail damage will break Shaymin-S's Focus Sash, lessening its longevity.

 

[Empress]

Finally finished the skeleton. Ready for QC!

 

[Electrolyte]

Some suggestions from someone that uses Skymin on almost all of his Doubles teams:

OVERVIEW:
- Blatantly showcase Skymin's unique offensive typing, one that grants it a niche as literally the top offensive Grass-type in the tier. The only thing that even comes close to its Seed Flare is the slower Breloom which doesn't have nearly as much offensive prowess.
- Air Slash and Seed Flare in the movepool help Skymin's partners as well- opportunities to attack and help to break through bulky special walls
- One dimensional isn't always a bad thing, especially because nobody actively prepares for Skymin in today's metagame- in Skymin's case, being one dimensional rarely works against it, and having pretty much one set makes Skymin really easy to synergize with. I'd take this out or rehash it as a positive trait.
- Weak to speed control and prio


SET:
I really don't like the Focus Sash. You're so fast you'll always go first anyway, so if you get double targetted the item is pretty much useless. Also, Skymin is a pretty black-and-white kind of Pokemon that won't be able to beat a whole lot of new targets if given just one extra turn; add that onto the fact that no LO means weak af and Air Slash saves your butt already with flinch == no focus sash. I can't think of any situation where it would help - barely against Kyu-B and not really against Zard Y. And you should have other Pokemon to handle them anyway


MOVES:
- EPower hits Electric- and Fire-types too


SET DETAILS:
- Life Orb being required to OHKO Rotom-W is false; non LO 252+ Skymin always OHKOs standard 252 / 120+ Rotom-W and can even OHKO 252 / 252+ Rotom-W most of the time. Just say that it adds a significant boost to Skymin's already very powerful attacks.


USAGE TIPS:
- Seed Flare if you can OHKO, Air Slash if you can't, EPower for coverage
- Shaymin's going to be dealing a lot of damage to no matter what it targets, so its playstyle should actually be dependent on that of its partner. Shaymin excels best in a pair, not independently - so its Protects and attacks have to be timed to suit the offensive strategy of its partner. I would not advise being too reckless early game because a healthy shaymin late game is very dangerous.
- Stress how important Protect is. Use it not only when in doubt but also to draw in attacks to buy a turn, give your partner a chance to remove a threat, or to stall out Speed related field effects such as TR and Tailwind. Switching is really annoying for Shaymin because it lacks opportunities to come back in; Protect and counter attacking is the better option when facing threats.
- Mention how Shaymin shouldn't be switched into any move that is not Grass- or Ground-type because even resisted attacks deal a lot of damage. Even things like weak Scald should be avoided because the burn + LO will wear you down very quickly
- AVOID STATUS, AVOID SPEED CONTROL


TEAM OPTIONS:
- First things first: put all of the offensive partners before the support partners. Shaymin-S appreciates Pokemon that can hit hard with it a lot more than it needs things like Wide Guard or Follow Me. Slow things with little offensive presence actually slow Skymin down.
- Literally anything fast and offensive works well with Shaymin-S because its offensive coverage is so unique. Grass / Flying STAB pairs well with any coverage based combination.
-- Fast, powerful partners to help completely Shaymin-S's offensive coverage: powerhouses like Talonflame, Mega Swampert, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Deoxys-A, Keldeo, Latios, Terrakion, Mega Kang, and p much any setup sweeper. You're looking for things faster than 100 Spe with coverage that can hit hard with at least two types.
- then after you talk about offensive support, talk about defensive support. Mention Scarf Lando as an Ice and Fire check with Intim and strong EQ to bait in Water- and Grass-types. Also mention status healers because things like paralysis and burns really hinder Skymin
- TAUNT- no TR / Tailwind / status funny business


OTHER OPTIONS:
Actually, it has a lot of other options, which include:
- Giga Drain if you want more reliability over Seed Flare (no EBall cuz if you want power, just go with Seed Flare)
- TAILWIND
- Substitute + 3 Attacks
- Take away HP Rock because it's so weak and barely 2HKOes those Pokemon listed
- TIMID NATURE FOR SUPER SPEED


CHECKS AND COUNTERS:
Speed Control: add Thundurus with priority TWave and remove Tornadus because it's a bad Pokemon that noone should use. Add Rotom-H Electroweb

Speed: move Talonflame, Mamoswine, and Weavile here because they're prio. Add Bisharp Sucker Punch and MKang- Sucker Punch and Fake Out KOes. Remove Gengar and Manectric mentions because if they face you ofc they'll Protect before they Evo. Add Landorus to Scarfers. Add weather boosted sweepers- Venusaur, Ludicolo, Swampert, and Excadrill.

"Offensive Typing Advantage": the tag is actually now just called "Typing Advantage". It's actually hard to fall into this category because Skymin hits almost everything at least neutrally. This part is mainly just levitating Fire- and Electric-types. Zard Y, Rotom-H, Zapdos, Thundurus-I & -T, etc.



Good work

 

[Stratos]

sash is good on skymin :{|}

 

[Empress]

Some suggestions from someone that uses Skymin on almost all of his Doubles teams:

OVERVIEW:
- Blatantly showcase Skymin's unique offensive typing, one that grants it a niche as literally the top offensive Grass-type in the tier. The only thing that even comes close to its Seed Flare is the slower Breloom which doesn't have nearly as much offensive prowess.
- Air Slash and Seed Flare in the movepool help Skymin's partners as well- opportunities to attack and help to break through bulky special walls
- One dimensional isn't always a bad thing, especially because nobody actively prepares for Skymin in today's metagame- in Skymin's case, being one dimensional rarely works against it, and having pretty much one set makes Skymin really easy to synergize with. I'd take this out or rehash it as a positive trait.
- Weak to speed control and prio


SET:
I really don't like the Focus Sash. You're so fast you'll always go first anyway, so if you get double targetted the item is pretty much useless. Also, Skymin is a pretty black-and-white kind of Pokemon that won't be able to beat a whole lot of new targets if given just one extra turn; add that onto the fact that no LO means weak af and Air Slash saves your butt already with flinch == no focus sash. I can't think of any situation where it would help - barely against Kyu-B and not really against Zard Y. And you should have other Pokemon to handle them anyway


MOVES:
- EPower hits Electric- and Fire-types too


SET DETAILS:
- Life Orb being required to OHKO Rotom-W is false; non LO 252+ Skymin always OHKOs standard 252 / 120+ Rotom-W and can even OHKO 252 / 252+ Rotom-W most of the time. Just say that it adds a significant boost to Skymin's already very powerful attacks.


USAGE TIPS:
- Seed Flare if you can OHKO, Air Slash if you can't, EPower for coverage
- Shaymin's going to be dealing a lot of damage to no matter what it targets, so its playstyle should actually be dependent on that of its partner. Shaymin excels best in a pair, not independently - so its Protects and attacks have to be timed to suit the offensive strategy of its partner. I would not advise being too reckless early game because a healthy shaymin late game is very dangerous.
- Stress how important Protect is. Use it not only when in doubt but also to draw in attacks to buy a turn, give your partner a chance to remove a threat, or to stall out Speed related field effects such as TR and Tailwind. Switching is really annoying for Shaymin because it lacks opportunities to come back in; Protect and counter attacking is the better option when facing threats.
- Mention how Shaymin shouldn't be switched into any move that is not Grass- or Ground-type because even resisted attacks deal a lot of damage. Even things like weak Scald should be avoided because the burn + LO will wear you down very quickly
- AVOID STATUS, AVOID SPEED CONTROL


TEAM OPTIONS:
- First things first: put all of the offensive partners before the support partners. Shaymin-S appreciates Pokemon that can hit hard with it a lot more than it needs things like Wide Guard or Follow Me. Slow things with little offensive presence actually slow Skymin down.
- Literally anything fast and offensive works well with Shaymin-S because its offensive coverage is so unique. Grass / Flying STAB pairs well with any coverage based combination.
-- Fast, powerful partners to help completely Shaymin-S's offensive coverage: powerhouses like Talonflame, Mega Swampert, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Deoxys-A, Keldeo, Latios, Terrakion, Mega Kang, and p much any setup sweeper. You're looking for things faster than 100 Spe with coverage that can hit hard with at least two types.
- then after you talk about offensive support, talk about defensive support. Mention Scarf Lando as an Ice and Fire check with Intim and strong EQ to bait in Water- and Grass-types. Also mention status healers because things like paralysis and burns really hinder Skymin
- TAUNT- no TR / Tailwind / status funny business


OTHER OPTIONS:
Actually, it has a lot of other options, which include:
- Giga Drain if you want more reliability over Seed Flare (no EBall cuz if you want power, just go with Seed Flare)
- TAILWIND
- Substitute + 3 Attacks
- Take away HP Rock because it's so weak and barely 2HKOes those Pokemon listed
- TIMID NATURE FOR SUPER SPEED


CHECKS AND COUNTERS:
Speed Control: add Thundurus with priority TWave and remove Tornadus because it's a bad Pokemon that noone should use. Add Rotom-H Electroweb

Speed: move Talonflame, Mamoswine, and Weavile here because they're prio. Add Bisharp Sucker Punch and MKang- Sucker Punch and Fake Out KOes. Remove Gengar and Manectric mentions because if they face you ofc they'll Protect before they Evo. Add Landorus to Scarfers. Add weather boosted sweepers- Venusaur, Ludicolo, Swampert, and Excadrill.

"Offensive Typing Advantage": the tag is actually now just called "Typing Advantage". It's actually hard to fall into this category because Skymin hits almost everything at least neutrally. This part is mainly just levitating Fire- and Electric-types. Zard Y, Rotom-H, Zapdos, Thundurus-I & -T, etc.



Good work

Holy shit that's a lot of edits. All changes implemented :P

 

[Empress]

sash is good on skymin :{|}

I'll leave it in OO for the time being

EDIT: Whoops, sorry about the double post.

 

[Haruno]

Preliminary QC or whatnot.

Set Details
========

- I'd mention focus sash as a usable item since being able to take a hit guaranteed is pretty useful for skymin since it might not be able to take a hit otherwise and allows it to beat mons it'd normally lose to.

Usage Tips
========

- Shaymin works best independantly.
- Don't switch in skymin on anything really unless you manage to make a hard predict since it kinda can't afford any misprediction
- Mention how skymin is heavily reliant on flinchhax to neuter foes.
- I wouldn't mention anything like save x mon for x time since you're supposed to use your mons at the given time whenever that may be.
- Status doesn't bother skymin bar paralysis. Speed control means auto fucked though.

Team Options
========

- Don't suggest physical ground types since stacking quad ice weak mons is a terrible idea.
- I dislike the mention of anything involving requires more speed alongside skymin due to the fact that you essentially lose all momentum if any form of speed control
- Agreed with follow me support, don't suggest rachi especially for the reason "good defensive synergy", both being weak to fire is pretty awful in addition to the fact that most/all fire types generally run heat wave.
- Not sold on wide guard being good support for skymin since any type of non resisted attacks bop it really hard.
- I'm so confused on the lando-t suggestion since it literally does none of what you mentioned (ice types don't exist, ice beam is everywhere though, there are also no phys fire types worth mentioning, not to mention that lando-t doesn't really lure in water or grass types) bar the earthquake fires i suppose. I'd just outright remove this.
- don't suggest clerics period. They're bad.


Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: I'd just mention that all speed control is devastating to skymin since speed is its only redeeming asset and if it can't outspeed then it's essentially useless.

**Speed**: Literally nothing commonly used (or worth mentioning) outspeeds skymin. If anything I'd just change the whole thing to priority fucks it.

**Typing Advantage**: I'd really just sum it up as anything that can take a hit threatens skymin immensely.

 

[Empress]

Preliminary QC or whatnot.

Set Details
========

- I'd mention focus sash as a usable item since being able to take a hit guaranteed is pretty useful for skymin since it might not be able to take a hit otherwise and allows it to beat mons it'd normally lose to.

Usage Tips
========

- Shaymin works best independantly.
- Don't switch in skymin on anything really unless you manage to make a hard predict since it kinda can't afford any misprediction
- Mention how skymin is heavily reliant on flinchhax to neuter foes.
- I wouldn't mention anything like save x mon for x time since you're supposed to use your mons at the given time whenever that may be.
- Status doesn't bother skymin bar paralysis. Speed control means auto fucked though.

Team Options
========

- Don't suggest physical ground types since stacking quad ice weak mons is a terrible idea.
- I dislike the mention of anything involving requires more speed alongside skymin due to the fact that you essentially lose all momentum if any form of speed control
- Agreed with follow me support, don't suggest rachi especially for the reason "good defensive synergy", both being weak to fire is pretty awful in addition to the fact that most/all fire types generally run heat wave.
- Not sold on wide guard being good support for skymin since any type of non resisted attacks bop it really hard.
- I'm so confused on the lando-t suggestion since it literally does none of what you mentioned (ice types don't exist, ice beam is everywhere though, there are also no phys fire types worth mentioning, not to mention that lando-t doesn't really lure in water or grass types) bar the earthquake fires i suppose. I'd just outright remove this.
- don't suggest clerics period. They're bad.


Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: I'd just mention that all speed control is devastating to skymin since speed is its only redeeming asset and if it can't outspeed then it's essentially useless.

**Speed**: Literally nothing commonly used (or worth mentioning) outspeeds skymin. If anything I'd just change the whole thing to priority fucks it.

**Typing Advantage**: I'd really just sum it up as anything that can take a hit threatens skymin immensely.

All changes implemented.

 

[Electrolyte]

Well there is no "priority" tag- both priority and having a high Speed stat fall under "Speed" so you'll have to change it back :s

My comments on Haruno's post

Preliminary QC or whatnot.

Set Details
========

- I'd mention focus sash as a usable item since being able to take a hit guaranteed is pretty useful for skymin since it might not be able to take a hit otherwise and allows it to beat mons it'd normally lose to.

I'm still unconvinced about this. What exactly does Sash accomplish?? Air Slash and high Speed already make Skymin nigh untouchable and things that outspeed Shaymin can survive a single attack anyway.


Usage Tips
========

- Shaymin works best independantly.
I disagree with this; it was even mentioned in Overview that Skymin requires a lot of support, which is definitely true

- Don't switch in skymin on anything really unless you manage to make a hard predict since it kinda can't afford any misprediction
- Mention how skymin is heavily reliant on flinchhax to neuter foes.
- I wouldn't mention anything like save x mon for x time since you're supposed to use your mons at the given time whenever that may be.
- Status doesn't bother skymin bar paralysis. Speed control means auto fucked though.
Burns are annoying though, burn at least halves the amount of times Skymin can attack and its effects can be intensified with Protect stalling, making Skymin even weaker to priority.


Team Options
========

- Don't suggest physical ground types since stacking quad ice weak mons is a terrible idea.
- I dislike the mention of anything involving requires more speed alongside skymin due to the fact that you essentially lose all momentum if any form of speed control
The point of this is to overwhelm the opponent so much that Speed control is no longer viable. Shaymin-S excels in 1 v 1 matchups, but it needs a partner to take down the remaining opponent. Speed control is threatening but powerful attacks are even more so.

- Agreed with follow me support, don't suggest rachi especially for the reason "good defensive synergy", both being weak to fire is pretty awful in addition to the fact that most/all fire types generally run heat wave.
- Not sold on wide guard being good support for skymin since any type of non resisted attacks bop it really hard.
- I'm so confused on the lando-t suggestion since it literally does none of what you mentioned (ice types don't exist, ice beam is everywhere though, there are also no phys fire types worth mentioning, not to mention that lando-t doesn't really lure in water or grass types) bar the earthquake fires i suppose. I'd just outright remove this.
Scarf Lando + Skymin is a powerful offensive combination. Its very powerful steady EQ keeps Fires and Steels out so Skymin can focus on its STABs. Intim helps against prio users, too.

And Ice type coverage isn't really threatening because it's usually only carried on Water-types, most of which Skymin can outspeed and OHKO. Only Ice types are really threatening, such as Mamo / Weavile. Lando helps a bit with Kyu-B (go for the extreme RSlide + ASlash flinchhax)

- don't suggest clerics period. They're bad.


Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: I'd just mention that all speed control is devastating to skymin since speed is its only redeeming asset and if it can't outspeed then it's essentially useless.

**Speed**: Literally nothing commonly used (or worth mentioning) outspeeds skymin. If anything I'd just change the whole thing to priority fucks it.
Agree, but see above

**Typing Advantage**: I'd really just sum it up as anything that can take a hit threatens skymin immensely.

 

[Empress]

Haruno and Electrolyte
Oh, dear. I've implemented as many of your changes as I could without conflicting your viewpoints on this. Is it looking okay?

 

[Electrolyte]

Alright this has been sitting around for a while and I haven't had the time to talk it over personally with Haruno so for the sake of letting it actually get finished I'll just swallow my comments since obviously QC > not QC. They're small things anyway, not worth dwelling on. Implement everything that doesn't clash and when it does listen to Haruno, wh0sy0urpapa.

Only thing though I have to stay adamant about is the Speed tag - there are plenty of Pokemon that outspeed and beat Skymin, especially since the main set is Modest. Things like Mega Manectric and Mega Gengar easily outspeed it naturally. And don't forget about Scarfers - Genesect and Landorus-T can both tank a hit and KO. Weather boosted sweepers like Venusaur, Ludicolo, and Mega Swampert work as well. The only extra thing you have to mention is for players to be wary of possible Timid Skymins but most of these Pokemon can outspeed even Timid Skymin too anyway. Probably even more reliable than most priority users anyway because even though Skymin is frail you're going to have a hard time KOing a near-full health Skymin with even a LO STAB Sucker Punch from something like Bisharp, and that's one of the strongest priority attacks in the meta

 

[Stratos]

skymin should absolutely have sash slashed and anyone who disagrees can fight me irl, i also think it should be timid but that ones not worth raising a stink over probably

 

[Arcticblast]

I'll raise a stink over it.

The main nature for Skymin is Modest but the main set for Mega Sceptile is Timid, um??? I'll concede to the point that Modest Mega Sceptile doesn't get any particularly notable 1/2HKOs that Timid doesn't, but doesn't the exact same argument apply for Skymin? Timid Skymin might lose a tiny bit of power (for example Air Slash maxes at 83.1% instead of 90.9% against Amoonguss, although that's with the x2 modifier so the actual difference is somewhat lower), but the ability to outspeed everything and not have to risk a Speed tie with max Torn/Thund (who admittedly beat you anyway) seems much better than an extra bit of power. In fact, Skymin's blistering Speed is a major point against the viability of Greninja and Darkrai - not only does Skymin's Speed and superflinch allow it to outrun these threats, but if you just need a fast LO attacker, why use those two when you could use something that hits harder and moves faster?*
*yes I know team needs blah blah I'd use Darkrai if I already had a Grass or Greninja if I needed super coverage etc.

also Modest Skymin is very rare (under 15%), this is probably for a good reason

1695 stats:
Timid:0/0/0/252/4/252 61.535% | Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 17.869% | Modest:0/0/0/252/4/252 14.689% | Timid:0/0/4/252/0/252 1.968% | Other 3.939%
1825 stats:
Timid:0/0/0/252/4/252 57.673% | Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 23.958% | Modest:0/0/0/252/4/252 13.595% | Other 4.773%

tl;dr I'm not QC but I strongly question the selection of Modest over Timid

Also mention Sash, but also mention that Sash exposes Skymin to being frozen by Ice Beam, which will cause it to change to Land Forme. (The freeze itself can be healed off by Shaymin's Natural Cure, but you lose your amazing Speed and flinch machine.)

 

[Bughouse]

Timid is better. Period. Maaaaaaybe Modest LO is important for some particular things (can't think of too much off the top of my head). But Timid Sash should absolutely be the primary options.

 

[Stratos]

252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 320-376 (100 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

only reason i can find for modest LO

 

[Empress]

Ok; Timid nature it is. Sash is slashed as well. I think I've implemented enough edits from Haruno and Electrolyte to make this thing not clash. Does this still look alright?

 

[Bughouse]

Don't even mention Giga Drain in OO
The OO mention now should be modest not timid, as timid is on the main set, and you can mention the niche modest has of doing extra dmg that sometimes (rarely) matters. Stratos's example of Landorus-T could work.
Specify that, if used, Tailwind would be instead of Earth Power, but then you need strong team options to deal with Steels, particularly Aegislash and Heatran.
Substitute also would be used over Earth Power not over Protect, and Toxic is not used in dubs.

In Checks and Counters, specify T-Wave coming from Thundurus, who has Prankster and resists all of Skymin's moves. Jirachi is also a good user of T-Wave.
Give examples in Typing Advantage. Rotom-H, Thundurus, Zapdos, Kyurem-B are some bulky mons that can take hits from Skymin easily and retaliate, off the top of my head.



Personally I'd rather see Focus Sash as the primary slash, but both items are viable so I won't raise a stink about this unless the rest of QC also want it switched.



Overall, p good start to the analysis. Fix the stuff at the top and 1/3

 

[Empress]

Don't even mention Giga Drain in OO
The OO mention now should be modest not timid, as timid is on the main set, and you can mention the niche modest has of doing extra dmg that sometimes (rarely) matters. Stratos's example of Landorus-T could work.
Specify that, if used, Tailwind would be instead of Earth Power, but then you need strong team options to deal with Steels, particularly Aegislash and Heatran.
Substitute also would be used over Earth Power not over Protect, and Toxic is not used in dubs.

In Checks and Counters, specify T-Wave coming from Thundurus, who has Prankster and resists all of Skymin's moves. Jirachi is also a good user of T-Wave.
Give examples in Typing Advantage. Rotom-H, Thundurus, Zapdos, Kyurem-B are some bulky mons that can take hits from Skymin easily and retaliate, off the top of my head.



Personally I'd rather see Focus Sash as the primary slash, but both items are viable so I won't raise a stink about this unless the rest of QC also want it switched.



Overall, p good start to the analysis. Fix the stuff at the top and 1/3

Thank you- finally did these. Onto QC #2

 

[Arcticblast]

This is honestly a lot of semantics but whatever

Overview
########

+ Very high Special Attack and Speed
+ Gets the Speed jump on many of the new ORAS megas
+ Also gets the typing advantage on several new megas, particularly Diancie, Sceptile, and Swampert
+ Serene Grace makes Seed Flare and Air Slash very annoying to face. Seed Flare also helps its teammates beat special walls more easily
+ Being part Grass-type prevents Spore and Rage Powder from crippling it
+ Grass and Flying are a very unique offensive typing, granting Shaymin-S a niche as the best offensive Grass-type in the metagame
+ Access to Earth Power allows it to brush by the Steel-types that wall it otherwise
- Fairly frail, with a poor defensive typing on top of it
- Opposing speed control cripples it badly
- Overly reliant on flinch hax to do its job
- Needs a lot of team support to survive on the battlefield

Wording really, but Rage Powder doesn't really cripple anything - hinder would be a better word. Take out the bit about relying on flinch hax though, Life Orb base 120 SpA Seed Flare doesn't need flinches to succeed ;)

Usage Tips
========

- Due to Shaymin-S's frailty, keep offensive pressure on the opponent, and use free switches to bring it into the battlefield whenever possible
- In fact, don't switch Shaymin-S into anything besides a Ground- or Grass-type move, as even resisted hits will deal significant damage to it. As such, you cannot afford to mispredict
- You can safely switch Shaymin-S into a Spore due to its Grass-typing, and it will also punch holes in Pokemon that rely on Rage Powder
- When in doubt, scout with Protect in order to give your partner a chance to remove an opposing threat, and to stall out the speed controlling field effects of Tailwind and Trick Room
- Before finishing an opponent off with Seed Flare, you should use Air Slash to flinch it and wear it down, or Earth Power for coverage
- Avoid speed control at all costs!

- you can totally switch in on Rotom-W, you just have to be really careful with other switchins - 136 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 145-172 (42.5 - 50.4%)
- Avoid opposing speed control at all costs! Icy Wind or TW support is good for shit like Scarf Lando-T
- Rage Powder support

Other Options
########

- Tailwind is an option over Earth Power to support Shaymin-S's teammates, but it lacks room for the move, is fast already, and typically is the one that needs support itself. Moreover, your team will need to pack strong checks to Steel-types, particularly Aegislash and Heatran
- Substitute can be used in place of Earth Power to absorb status-inducing moves

Mention Modest here solely for getting the OHKO on standard Landorus-T

Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: All forms of speed control are devastating to Shaymin-S because its high Speed is its main selling point. If it cannot outspeed its foes, it really can't do anything. In particular, Thundurus has priority on Thunder Wave due to Prankster and resists all of Shaymin-S's moves, making it easy for Thundurus to cut Shaymin-S's Speed.

**Speed**: Priority attackers with super effective STAB attacks, such as Weavile, Mamoswine, and Talonflame force it out. Neutral priority can pick it off when it is weakened, particularly from Bisharp, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Mawile. Naturally faster Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Mega Manectric and Choice Scarf users such as Landorus-T and Genesect can outspeed Shaymin-S and deal serious damage to it. When weather is on the battlefield, weather sweepers such as Venusaur, Ludicolo, Mega Swampert, and Excadrill also bypass Shaymin-S's great Speed.

**Typing Advantage**: Anything offensive that can take a hit from Shaymin-S will threaten it back immediately. Rotom-H, Thundurus, Kyurem-B, and Zapdos can tank Shaymin-S's attacks and deal serious damage in return.

Mention freeze status here. While Shaymin-S will rarely (if ever) actually get frozen, it turns it into regular Shaymin for the rest of the battle. This is bad. You do not want this.

Do these and:
QC 2/3

 

[Empress]

This is honestly a lot of semantics but whatever
Wording really, but Rage Powder doesn't really cripple anything - hinder would be a better word. Take out the bit about relying on flinch hax though, Life Orb base 120 SpA Seed Flare doesn't need flinches to succeed ;)

- you can totally switch in on Rotom-W, you just have to be really careful with other switchins - 136 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin-S: 145-172 (42.5 - 50.4%)
- Avoid opposing speed control at all costs! Icy Wind or TW support is good for shit like Scarf Lando-T
- Rage Powder support

Mention Modest here solely for getting the OHKO on standard Landorus-T

Mention freeze status here. While Shaymin-S will rarely (if ever) actually get frozen, it turns it into regular Shaymin for the rest of the battle. This is bad. You do not want this.

Do these and:
QC 2/3

Thanks- will write this up soon.
Edit: Written up.

 

[Stratos]

overview:
sceptiles not relevant, swampert carries ice punch so
skymin doesnt really require support, it is a support mon. if its in a bad position u should just switch it out or sash through it

moves:
i dont think we need to explain protect on analyses anymore other than to say "its protect god damn it" but if we do then mention its good to see if lando will use a rock move (uh oh) or u-turn (stay in like a pro), also remove the word "spread" from "avoiding spread attacks" because avoiding single target attacks is important too :(

set details:
the reason to use sash is because theres a lot of times where youre like "damn i want to keep skymin in to hit this threat that its partner needs eliminated but if i do it will die" "haha jk i have sash suck my balls"
mention weavile for why timid

usage tips:
you dont even mention that u should be using air slash when u need a flinch and otherwise spamming seed flare to fish for special defense drops on switchins? thats like, 99% of usage tips, the rest is just hitting things super effectively when need be.

team options:
y would u use rachi with skymin?? skymin doesnt rly use redirection tbh, again its a support mon itself basically, u should be pairing it with donkers not sitting ducks

oo:
again skymin doesnt rly need support itself so much as ur better just spamming its stabs as support
mention 'life orb' when u say modest

c&c:
add victini to scarfers, its more relevant than gene at least
mention with typing advantage that if u switch into seed flare u become "not a counter"
u should have a whole item for thunder wave, a para'd skymin is a sad skymin

 

[Empress]

overview:
sceptiles not relevant, swampert carries ice punch so
skymin doesnt really require support, it is a support mon. if its in a bad position u should just switch it out or sash through it

moves:
i dont think we need to explain protect on analyses anymore other than to say "its protect god damn it" but if we do then mention its good to see if lando will use a rock move (uh oh) or u-turn (stay in like a pro), also remove the word "spread" from "avoiding spread attacks" because avoiding single target attacks is important too :(

set details:
the reason to use sash is because theres a lot of times where youre like "damn i want to keep skymin in to hit this threat that its partner needs eliminated but if i do it will die" "haha jk i have sash suck my balls"
mention weavile for why timid

usage tips:
you dont even mention that u should be using air slash when u need a flinch and otherwise spamming seed flare to fish for special defense drops on switchins? thats like, 99% of usage tips, the rest is just hitting things super effectively when need be.

team options:
y would u use rachi with skymin?? skymin doesnt rly use redirection tbh, again its a support mon itself basically, u should be pairing it with donkers not sitting ducks

oo:
again skymin doesnt rly need support itself so much as ur better just spamming its stabs as support
mention 'life orb' when u say modest

c&c:
add victini to scarfers, its more relevant than gene at least
mention with typing advantage that if u switch into seed flare u become "not a counter"
u should have a whole item for thunder wave, a para'd skymin is a sad skymin

Did all of this (I think).

 

[Stratos]

• Earth Power is critical to prevent Steel-, Electric-, and Fire-types from walling this set.

only steel types actually

• Alternatively, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to live a single powerful attack from a Pokemon that it would normally lose to, such as Kyurem-B.

change to "At a crucial moment, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to stay in on a Pokemon it would normally lose to."

• Use Air Slash to attempt to flinch the foe and use Seed Flare on a predicted switch to try and lower the switch-in's Special Defense.

just change this to "Spam Seed Flare to fish for Special Defense drops unless you need to use one of Shaymin's other moves. Air Slash and Earth Power are for coverage or, in Air Slash's case, for when you really need a flinch."

• Before finishing an opponent off with Seed Flare, you should use Air Slash to flinch it and wear it down, or Earth Power for coverage.

remove this sentence, it's both wrong and entirely unnecessary

• All forms of speed control are devastating to Shaymin-S because its high Speed is its main selling point.

bullshit flinches and drops are its main selling point but they're a lot less effective without its Speed. Change to "...because it needs its speed in order to be effective."


change all these and qc 3/3

cant wait till i get mods and can do these wording changes myself

 

[Empress]

• Earth Power is critical to prevent Steel-, Electric-, and Fire-types from walling this set.

only steel types actually

• Alternatively, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to live a single powerful attack from a Pokemon that it would normally lose to, such as Kyurem-B.

change to "At a crucial moment, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to stay in on a Pokemon it would normally lose to."

• Use Air Slash to attempt to flinch the foe and use Seed Flare on a predicted switch to try and lower the switch-in's Special Defense.

just change this to "Spam Seed Flare to fish for Special Defense drops unless you need to use one of Shaymin's other moves. Air Slash and Earth Power are for coverage or, in Air Slash's case, for when you really need a flinch."

• Before finishing an opponent off with Seed Flare, you should use Air Slash to flinch it and wear it down, or Earth Power for coverage.

remove this sentence, it's both wrong and entirely unnecessary

• All forms of speed control are devastating to Shaymin-S because its high Speed is its main selling point.

bullshit flinches and drops are its main selling point but they're a lot less effective without its Speed. Change to "...because it needs its speed in order to be effective."


change all these and qc 3/3

cant wait till i get mods and can do these wording changes myself

Thank you! GP time.

 

[tehy]

Get chekt

Edit:missed the memo on speed control, my bad. You did miss 1 instance of capitalized Speed though so haha, choke on that, universe

amcheck

Overview
########

Shaymin-S's very high Special Attack and Speed make it an offensive powerhouse in the Doubles metagame. Its Speed tier is important as ever because it beats many of the new ORAS Megas. Shaymin-S also gets the typing advantage on several new megas Megas, particularly Diancie. Serene Grace makes Seed Flare and Air Slash very annoying to face, whether Shaymin-S is to be wearing down special walls for its teammates or flinching the foe to death. Being part Grass-type prevents Spore and Rage Powder from hindering it. Grass and / Flying are is a very unique offensive typing, granting Shaymin-S a niche as the best offensive Grass-type in the metagame, while access to Earth Power allows it to brush by the Steel-types that wall its STAB moves. On the flip side, Shaymin-S is fairly frail, with a poor defensive typing on top of it. It also relies heavily on its Speed; opposing speed control cripples it badly. Nonetheless, Shaymin-S is an excellent option for any offensive team.

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Protect
ability: Serene Grace
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Seed Flare is a very powerful STAB attack that comes with an 80% chance to cut the foe's Special Defense by 2 stages courtesy of Serene Grace. Shaymin-S's high Speed means it can easily take advantage of Air Slash's 60%doubled flinch rate at 60% a pop. Earth Power is critical to prevent Steel-types from walling this set. Protect is a must for nearly any Pokemon in Doubles.;(period to semicolon) Shaymin-S enjoys it for scouting, avoiding damaging moves, and stalling out opposing speed control.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Speed and Special Attack make Shaymin-S hit as quickly and as hard as possible. Life Orb adds a significant power boost to Shaymin-S's already powerful attacks. At a crucial moment, Focus Sash allows Shaymin-S to stay in on a Pokemon it would normally lose to.,(period to comma) It and also works as a fallback if its Air Slash fails to flinch the foe. A Timid nature helps Shaymin-S outspeed Thundurus, Darkrai, Weavile, and Greninja.

Usage Tips
========

Spam Seed Flare to land Special Defense drops unless you need to use one of Shaymin-S's other moves. Air Slash and Earth Power are for coverage or, in Air Slash's case, for when you really need a flinch. Due to Shaymin-S's frailty, keep offensive pressure on the opponent, and use free switches to bring it into the battlefield whenever possible. It can be switched in on weaker attacks such as Rotom-W's Thunderbolt, but even so, you cannot afford to mispredict. You can safely switch Shaymin-S into a Spore due to its Grass-typing, and it will also punch holes in Pokemon that rely on Rage Powder support. When in doubt, scout with Protect in order to give your partner a chance to remove an opposing threat, and to stall out the speed controlling speed-controlling field effects of Tailwind and Trick Room. Most importantly, avoid opposing speed control at all costs!

Team Options
========

Fire-types such as Heatran and Rotom-H have great offensive synergy with Shaymin-S, as Shaymin-S hits the Ground-, Rock- and Water-types that threaten them with Seed Flare, while the Fire-types cover the Steel-types that wall Shaymin-S's its STAB attacks. Nearly any fast offensive Pokemon works well alongside Shaymin-S, including but not limited to Keldeo, Latios, and Mega Diancie. It (who?) excels in 1v1 matchups, but needs a partner to take down the remaining foe (what does this sentence have to do with anything? Look, i assume it relates to the offensive partners sentence because...logic, but there's 0 context. Try putting it before the offensive partners section and linking the two). Choice Scarf Landorus-T is a good offensive partner, being able to force out Fire- and Steel-types with its STAB Earthquake. It can also Intimidate priority attackers, and use Rock Slide against airborne Fire- and Electric-types, in addition to using the move alongside Air Slash for extreme flinch flinch hax flinching. Quick Guard users such as Terrakion prevent super effective priority moves such as Ice Shard or Talonflame's Brave Bird from OHKOing Shaymin-S before it has a chance to attack.

Other Options
########

Tailwind is an option over Earth Power to support Shaymin-S's teammates, but it lacks room for the move and is fast already, so it is better off spamming its STAB attacks. Moreover, your team will need to pack strong checks to Steel-types, particularly Aegislash and Heatran. Substitute can be used in place of Earth Power to absorb status-inducing moves. (if the 'moreover' sentence is about what happens if you don't carry earth power, why not move it here?) A Modest nature with Life Orb allows Seed Flare to always OHKO standard Landorus-T, but Timid is almost always the better choice.

Checks & Counters
########

**Speed Control**: All forms of speed control are devastating to Shaymin-S because it needs its speed Speed in order to be effective. If it cannot outspeed its foes, it really can't do anything. In particular, Thundurus has priority on Thunder Wave due to Prankster and resists all of Shaymin-S's moves, making it easy for Thundurus to cut Shaymin-S's Speed.

**Speed**: Priority attackers with super effective STAB attacks, such as Weavile, Mamoswine, and Talonflame,(ac) force Shaymin-S it out. Neutral priority can pick Shaymin-S it off when it is weakened, particularly from Bisharp, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Mawile. Naturally faster Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Mega Manectric and Choice Scarf users such as Landorus-T and Victini can outspeed Shaymin-S and deal serious damage to it. When certain weather is on the battlefield, correspondent weather sweepers such as Venusaur, Ludicolo, Mega Swampert, and Excadrill also bypass Shaymin-S's great Speed.

**Typing Advantage**: Anything offensive that can take a hit from Shaymin-S will threaten it back immediately. Rotom-H, Thundurus, Kyurem-B, and Zapdos can tank Shaymin-S's attacks and deal serious damage in return. However, none of them can switch into Shaymin-S's Seed Flare, or else they risk having their Special Defense cut in half.

**Miscellaneous**: If Shaymin-S gets frozen, it will revert to regular Shaymin for the rest of battle. This is rare, but highly detrimental.