Shaymin-Sky (QC 2/3)

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Shaymin - Sky Forme

Overview
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With a Special Attack stat that can tear through the metagame, matching Speed, Serene Grace, and some solid moves to back them, Sky Shaymin is one of the best Special Attackers in the Doubles Metagame. With Seed Flare and Serene Grace, not even the mighty Cresselia wants to switch in on Shaymin for fear of an 80% chance of having its Special Defense halved. With Air Slash, Shaymin becomes a flinch machine, akin to a more powerful Jirachi. To top it all off, threats such as Heatran are in for a shock when they take an Earth Power to the face.

However, this flying feathered fiend is not without its flaws: Skymin learns few other moves, making its attacks very predictable. Its typing makes it weak to many common attacks, and its defenses ensure that it won't last long against any of those supereffective hits.

Despite this, Shaymin-Sky is a tremendous asset for many teams, and is capable of piling offensive pressure on the opponent.

Special Attacker:
########
Name: All-Out Attacker
Move 1: Seed Flare/Energy Ball
Move 2: Air Slash
Move 3: Earth Power
Move 4: Protect
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Life Orb
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Nature: Modest/Timid

Moves
========
Seed Flare, while less accurate than Energy Ball, is recommended over the latter for its monstrous power, as well as the 80% chance to sharply lower special defense. If you're more worried about consistency, Energy Ball is the way to go, though its power is lackluster and it has a mere 20% chance to lower Special Defense by 1 stage.
Air Slash is an excellent secondary STAB attack, and effectively turns Shaymin into a flinch machine. Though Air Slash's power is nothing to write home about, Shaymin's base 120 Special Attack can still let it tear through many fighting- and grass-types.
Earth Power is extremely useful against Steel types - who would otherwise wall this set - as well as Fire types, who would otherwise force Shaymin to rely on flinching them.
Protect is a staple in Doubles: it can buy Shaymin precious extra turns, scout for priority moves or status, and give its partner time for setting up.

Set Details
========
While Timid Nature allows Skymin to outspeed Thundurus (a tie with Modest Nature) and Scarf Tyranitar (which outspeeds Modest), Modest Nature is recommended for the massive power it provides. Modest Air Slash gets a guaranteed 1HKO on 252/4 Hitmontop, while Seed Flare gets a guaranteed 1HKO on 0/0 Landorus-T.

Life Orb is the recommended item: the extra power boost is extremely valuable.

Usage Tips
========
With proper support, Skymin can easily be used as a lead. It can also be brought out midgame as an offensive force of nature, or even late in the game to score some easy 1HKOs.
As with all glass cannons, Shaymin-Sky needs to hit hard and fast to stay conscious. So hit the foes hard and take them down before they can do the same.
There aren't many safe times to switch this bad boy in on account of his low defenses. However, Powder-based moves such as Spore and Sleep Powder will not work due to the Grass-typing, so switching in on common users (Amoongus, Smeargle, Breloom) is generally safe. Predicted Earthquakes or Water-type moves are generally safe bets as well.

Team Options
==========

Skymin is most effective with support. Follow Me is highly recommended - drawing attacks away results in a longer life.
Jirachi is an excellent partner: it resists Flying, Rock, and Ice, while being immune to poison. In addition, Skymin can take down most Ground- and Fire- types with Seed Flare and Earth Power respectively. The one drawback to this pairing is that both are weak against Fire, meaning Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and Air Balloon Heatran can have their way with both of them.
Another excellent Follow Me partner is Blastoise. It can learn Surf or Water Pulse to deal with Talonflame, Air Balloon Heatran, and Mega Charizard Y, as well as Ice Beam for Tornadus. Or, instead of Follow Me, you could use Fake Out to buy Skymin more time, as well as for Chip Damage. In addition, Blastoise resists Ice and Fire, so many attacks drawn to it will do negligible damage.
Hitmontop can learn Wide Guard, an extremely helpful move to deal with Rock Slide and Heat Wave. It can also learn Quick Guard, which lets it protect Skymin from those pesky Ice Shards. Fake Out is always helpful as well: extra turns are everything in Doubles, especially to a Glass Cannon.
Offensive Fire-types like Mega Charizard Y and Heatran make great partners.

  • Excellent base Speed and Special Attack make for an extremely effective sweeper
  • Movepool that makes great use of those stats and allows it to eliminate many common threats without a second thought.
  • Serene Grace is an excellent ability: a reliable flinch attack that does good damage (Air Slash) is a tremendous asset, and the monstrously powerful Seed Flare gets an 80% chance to sharply lower Special defense, effectively crippling Cresselia and specially-defensive Steel types.
  • Many common weaknesses (Ice, Fire, Flying, Rock)
  • Defensive stats low enough that it won't be able to take many hits of anything
  • Few other options makes Shaymin very predictable

All-Out Attacker:
########
Name: All-Out Attacker
Move 1: Seed Flare/Energy Ball
Move 2: Air Slash
Move 3: Earth Power
Move 4: Protect
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Life Orb
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Nature: Modest/Timid

The first move, Seed Flare, tears through such threats as Rotom-W, Mamoswine, and Politoed like ordinary flares through paper, while also removing a significant chunk from any neutral threat. With Serene Grace, the Harsh Drop to Special Defense cripples anything that relies on its special defense; notably Cresselia.
Energy Ball is another solid option for the Grass STAB: although it is significantly weaker and has a mere 20% chance to lower (not Sharply Lower) Special Defense, it has the 100% accuracy that can decide the outcome of battles.
Air Slash is a solid secondary STAB, and allows Skymin to flinch any slower opponents to death, while also dealing significant damage to threats that are neutral and weak against it.
Earth Power works wonders against Fire- and Steel- types, notably Heatran, who would otherwise completely wall this set.
Protect buys more turns for Skymin, allows its partner to set up, or to scout for dangerous moves and status conditions.

Shaymin has several other options for moves, as well as items:
Dazzling Gleam is a viable option for a spread move to attack both opponents, as well as take care of any Dragon-types that could otherwise cause some trouble.
HP Fire can be used against Scizor and Ferrothorn, HP Ice on Thundurus and Tornadus, and HP Rock for Mega Charizard Y.




Moves
========
  • It is important to note that, while powerful, the set is somewhat inconsistent: neither primary STAB attack has 100 accuracy.
  • Seed Flare is recommended for the monstrous power and 80% chance to halve SpD. Energy Ball is the second slash because, while it has the important 100% accuracy, it is weaker and only has a 20% chance to lower SpD.
  • Air Slash is a solid secondary STAB and has a 60% chance to flinch the opponent: a tremendous asset against anything. However, it is important to note that Air Slash's low power means that it gets few 1HKOs, and Skymin can easily get screwed over if the target doesn't flinch.
  • Earth Power is extremely useful for Fire and Steel types, notably Heatran, who would otherwise completely wall this set.
  • Protect gives the partner an often-necessary opportunity for Thunder Wave/other support move, while also allowing Shaymin to scout for danger and screw up offensive strategies.

Set Details
========
  • No water-, ground-, or rock-types want to eat a Seed Flare - Timid Seed Flare does 79.7-94.5% to 252/4 Tyranitar in Sand
  • Modest Nature is recommended: it still outspeeds Latios, OHKO's 4/0 Landorus-T with Seed Flare, gets a guaranteed 1HKO on 252/4 Hitmontop with Air Slash
  • Timid Nature outspeeds Thundurus, which is otherwise a Speed tie, as well as Scarf Tyranitar, which outspeeds Modest Skymin. If you use Timid, 88HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe outspeeds both, and allows for some small amount of bulk.
Usage Tips
========
  • With its stats, coverage, and ability, Shaymin piles offensive pressure on the opponent.
  • Hit them fast and hit them hard, or they can take this guy down without much trouble - he is basically the definition of a Glass Cannon, and therefore requires very careful thought to use effectively.
  • Can be used early alongside support, midgame as an offensive force of nature, or lategame, when foes are weak enough to be easily OHKO'd.
Team Options
========
  • Best used alongside a bulky supporter. Follow Me is highly recommended.
  • Jirachi is an excellent partner with Follow Me: it resists Rock, Ice, and Flying, while being immune to Poison. Shaymin can also take care of most Ground-type threats before they can do any serious damage. The one drawback is that Jirachi and Shaymin are both weak to Fire, so Talonflame and Air Balloon Heatran can do heavy damage to both.
  • Mega Blastoise is also an excellent Follow Me partner, since it can learn Ice Beam to deal with Thundurus, Surf (or Water Pulse) for Talonflame, Air Balloon Heatran, and Mega Charizard Y, and Fake Out for extra turns and chip damage/making sure that Focus Sashes don't work. It also resists both Ice and Fire, so many attacks drawn to it will do negligible damage.
  • Hitmontop is useful for Wide Guard protection from Rock Slide, Heat Wave, and Blizzard. In addition, it can use Quick Guard for protection from Priority attacks with Quick Guard, and Fake Out opponents.
  • Rage Powder users are not recommended, since most share many weaknesses with Shaymin.
  • Fake Out is useful support: stall a significant threat while Shaymin destroys something else.
  • Shaymin's Flying type makes it an excellent partner for an Earthquake user - not being forced to Protect allows it to attack and put more offensive pressure on the opponent. Landorus, Excadrill, Garchomp, and Terrakion are all excellent candidates to fill this spot.
  • Shaymin makes an excellent supporter for offensive Fire-types like Mega Zard Y and Heatran, since it can quickly deal with the Rock-, Water-, and Ground-types that would otherwise threaten them.
Other Options
========
  • HP Fire (for Scizor and Ferrothorn)
  • HP Ice (for Thundurus/Tornadus)
  • HP Rock (for Mega Charizard Y - a OHKO with Modest and Life Orb)
  • Dazzling Gleam (for Salamence, Garchomp, Noivern, and other Dragon-types that could ordinarily cause Shaymin some trouble)
  • Substitute (ward off the dreaded Paralysis and make sure it can survive a hit)
  • Leaf Storm (strike and switch out)
  • Focus Sash (allows for a survived hit from something)
  • Choice Specs for some surprise 1HKOs, or Choice Scarf to outspeed other scarfed pokemon
  • Yache Berry and Charti Berry allow Skymin to survive a supereffective attack.
Checks and Counters
========
Type Advantage
  • Air Balloon Heatran is an excellent counter, since a single Heat Wave will faint Shaymin (or leave it close to fainting), while its only defense against Heatran (Earth Power) is rendered useless by Air Balloon.
  • Any bulky Flying-type can be a good check or counter, since Air Slash is the only move that they don't resist. In particular:
    • Thundurus resists Grass and Flying, is immune to Ground, and often packs Hidden Power Ice, essentially forcing a switch.
    • Tornadus is almost as good a counter as Thundurus - it is only hurt by Air Slash and can retaliate with a STAB Flying attack. 0/0 Tornadus - both Incarnate and Therian - can survive 2 Air Slashes and retaliate.
  • Anything with supereffective priority attacks (Talonflame's Brave Bird; Weaville and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, etc) can easily ensure that Skymin never has a chance to move.
  • Neutral Priority attacks (e.g. Sucker Punch) give a fighting chance to Pokemon that wouldn't ordinarily have it (for instance, Bisharp gets OHKO'd by Earth Power, but Sucker Punch can allow it to possibly faint Skymin before it can take advantage of that).
Speed
  • Any Choice Scarfed Pokemon with a Supereffective attack (Landorus' Rock Slide, Genesect's Ice Beam, etc) can also outspeed it, attack, and probably faint it before it can move.
  • Mega Gengar and Mega Manetric outspeed Skymin and can hit it with a supereffective attack (Sludge Bomb and Heat Wave, respectively), either fainting it in one hit or severely damaging it.
Speed Control
  • Paralysis, Icy Wind, Tailwind, and Trick Room all cripple Shaymin's usefulness instantly, since its effectiveness is so heavily based on speed.
  • Jirachi and Thundurus commonly carry Thunder Wave.
  • Suicune, Cresselia, and nearly all Ice-types usually have Icy Wind.
  • Suicune, Tornadus, and Whimsicott often use Tailwind, and the latter two are equipped with Prankster as well, virtually guaranteeing Tailwind's activation.
  • Bronzong, Dusclops, Dusknoir, and Cresselia all often know Trick Room
 
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Mizuhime

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you need to reserve the Pokemon before you start a thread ._., once you reserve it I will unlock it
 
Just cut the written overview paragraph: you aren't supposed to compare how Shaymin-Sky plays in Doubles to how it plays in singles since they are totally different playstyles.

You don't need to write pros or cons either. Just plop them all under overview :)

You say it has access to many powerful moves in the overview, but Seed Flare is Skymin's only attack with an admirable base power.

Really hype on Serene Grace in the overview. A fast and reliable flinching attack that does decent damage is incredible for itself and its partner. A huge base powered Seed Flare's Special Defense drop can really mess up Pokemon attempting to wall it, such as Cresselia and bulky Steel-types.

Cut the mention about accuracy in the overview and move it to the moves tab. Say Seed Flare is the first slash because of its high base power and potential Special Defense drop. Energy Ball is the second STAB because of its better accuracy and okay base power.

Say Protect is used to scout for moves and screw up offensive strategies as well.

I would say cut Modest from the slash and mention it as an option in Set Comments. No Rotom-W runs those EVs so the calcs are irrelevant. You can mention Modest being an option for the OHKO of Hitmontop, but it doesnt need the slash in the set for that one threat. I dont really see the need for HP Ice in the set either. Seed Flare can OHKO Landoge, Skymin can always flinch those dragons (i am pretty sure Garchomp is a 2HKO with Air Slash and Seed Flare does ~80%). The ability to wreck Heatran with Earth Power is much more important since Heatran are everywhere and totally wall the set otherwise.

In usage tips don't talk about Follow Me/Rage Powder abusers. Save that for Team Options. Just elaborate on how Skymin uses its Speed, coverage, and Serene Grace to maintain excellent offensive pressure on the opponent.

Don't say Jirachi checks Talonflame. Flare Blitz wrecks it.

I see your point of running Psychic in OO but Air Slash is a 2HKO anyway and it has the sexy flinch chance so you can probably remove it since that is literally the only threat it is for.

No swagger please lol

In checks and counters, don't say any Pokemon of those types can eliminate Skymin, because that is not true. Say Pokemon that can survive Shaymin-Sky's attacks and retaliate with super effective attacks are good checks. Since Skymin can literally flinch everything to death, they are just checks not counters. Give a shout out to Dragonite, who can survive a few air slash flinches and still attack.

Speaking of counters, Ice Shard users (Mamoswine, Weavile, Cloyster etc. please) Actually i am pretty sure Cloyster's ice shard didn't KO my skymin once lol but it is still a great check.

Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Landoge and Genesect please since they can easily outspeed and KO.

Put Fake Out in Checks and Counters also.
 
:O also add trick room to checks and counters since without its speed, it is near useless in battle.
 

Laga

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- slash Modest nature after Timid and mention in Set Details that it still manages to outpace Latios as well as guarantee an OHKO on 4 / 0 Landorus-T with Seed Flare. Seriously that is just strong as fuck.

252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 320-376 (100 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You are going to need to merge your Checks and Counters section a lot more. Since the format is changed, you now have about 3-5 categories of counters.

For example, for the bulky mons (BalloonTran, D-nite) make it "Opposing resistances" or something, and make Ice shard users + Talonflame "Powerful Priority attacks" etc.
 
Overview said:
  • Flying type makes for an excellent partner to an Earthquake user
Move this to Team Options and list examples.

In Moves, mention how Air Slash's low base power can screw Skymin over if it doesn't flinch, because it nabs very few KOs.

Set Comments said:
  • Air Slash with Timid deals 79.3-94.3% to 252/4 Scrafty.
Most Scrafty are Assault Vest so this calc is irrelevant.

Other Options said:
  • Modest Nature (Air Slash gets a guaranteed 1HKO on 252/4 Hitmontop)
take this out since it is back in the set

Other Options said:
  • HP Fire (useful against Ice types)
Since Mamoswine is weak to Seed Flare (which could only happen on the switch, because of Ice Shard), Abomasnow is weak to Air Slash (which could only happen on the switch, because of Ice Shard. Also add it to ice shard users in checks and counters and take out Cloyster, who is bad), and Kyurem-B is neutral to Fire, I wouldn't HP Fire is for Ice-types, considering they are the only Ice-type threats in the metagame. You can say it is for Scizor and Ferrothorn tho :)

Checks and Counters said:
  • Dragonite can check Shaymin: it can survive multiple Air Slashes, flinch multiple times, and still attack.
  • Thundurus resists Grass and Flying, is immune to Ground, and often packs Hidden Power Ice, essentially forcing a switch.
  • Tornadus is almost as good a counter as Thundurus - it is only hurt by Air Slash and can retaliate with a STAB Flying attack. 0/0 Tornadus - both Incarnate and Therian - can survive 2 Air Slashes and retaliate.
You can summarize this as bulky Flying-types so you could add stuff like Togekiss if you want. Being more generic gives the reader more options.

Checks and Counters said:
  • Jirachi, Jolteon, and Thundurus commonly carry Thunder Wave.
Take out Jolteon cause he sucks in Doubles and never carries Thunder Wave.

Implement these and I will stamp averagejoel
 
Add Sucker Punch users such as Bisharp to checks and counters and mention that Substitute blocks Sucker Punch in OO.

Add offensive Fire-type partners such as Charizard-Y and Heatran in Team Options since Skymin is great at eliminating the Rock- Water- and Ground-types that threaten them.

Describe how cautious you have to play in usage tips since it dies quickly, and talk about how it enjoys sweeping late game when its foes are weakened enough for Skymin to take them out.

It looks like everything is here so implement these and QC 1/3
 
I wouldn't call Sucker Punch a check at all:

Bisharp:
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 231-273 (67.7 - 80%) -- Guaranteed 2HKO
vs
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 322-382 (115.4 - 136.9%) -- Guaranteed OHKO

Hitmontop:
252+ Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 98-116 (28.7 - 34%) -- 1.3% Chance to 3HKO
vs
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 281-330 (92.4 - 108.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Mega Kangaskhan:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 178-210 (52.1 - 61.5%)
vs
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 242-285 (58.4 - 68.8%)

Mega Mawile:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%)
vs
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%)

So Bisharp gets 1HKO'd and Mawile nearly gets 1HKO'd, while Kanga can't take down Shaymin without losing a significant chunk of health itself.

Besides that, Mawile has Play Rough:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- Guaranteed OHKO

and Kanga has Return:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 339-400 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

and, now that I look at it, Bisharp has Poison Jab:
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 309-364 (90.6 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

as well as Stone Edge:
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 382-452 (112 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

to take care of Skymin.

Ergo, unless I'm missing a legitimate threat that commonly uses Sucker Punch and has no better option to take down a Shaymin, I don't think it's worth including.

The other points are valid though, so I'll be sure to include those.
 
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I was just saying most neutral priority attacks can make a good last resort option since most to around 50%. Not a counter fo sho but a check. Since many of the mons you listed get outspeed and KOed (or a lot of damage) Sucker Punch just lets them put up a fight.
 
Team Options

•Hitmontop is useful for Wide Guard protection from Rock Slide and Blizzard, as well as Fake Out.
mention heat wave here, as it is arguably more common than either of the spread moves mentioned (especially blizzard)

•Shaymin's Flying type makes it an excellent partner for an Earthquake user - not being forced to Protect allows it to attack and put more offensive pressure on the opponent. Landorus, Excadrill, Garchomp, and Terrakion are all excellent candidates to fill this spot.
I'd remove landorus from this, as it most often runs a special set over physical. Also terrakion hardly ever runs eq in higher level play (read: not the ladder), so that should probably be removed too.

a fast taunt user is very useful, as skymin is destroyed by trick room, so preventing that is awesome.
on that note, taunt would be a good move for oo, as it helps skymin stop many support and setup Pokemon.

I also agree with lolk in that sucker punch users should be added to checks and counters. The bisharp calc you posted just shows that all is needed is a bit of prior damage on skymin, and sucker punch kills. Btw poison jab and stone edge are bad moves on bisharp. The whole point of using sucker punch is killing the skymin before skymin kills your Mon, so I don't even see the point in your statements that they have other moves, when they just get kod by skymin before they can use those moves.

not qc, don't have to listen, etc etc
 

Audiosurfer

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ok here are some things averagejoel:
  • Modest should be slashed in front of Timid. Talked w/ Laga and reached this conclusion since Shaymin-S doesn't need the speed. Be sure to mention those benchmark that he talked about in his check. When sayin Timid just say that it lets you outspeed Thundurus which you otherwise speed tie with as well as Scarf Tyranitar which outspeeds you when you use Modest. Also be sure to say that they should use a spread of 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd if using Timid.
  • Mention Yache Berry & Charti Berry in OO
  • Dazzling Gleam only hits MegaZard X neutrally. But I'd say drop the mention anyways, it really isnt that good of a move
  • Add Mamoswine to C&C
  • "Seed Flare gets a guaranteed 1HKO on Rotom-W" <---- remove this, isn't very notable
  • Scarf can also be used to outspeed weather starters so that should be mentioned too
 

Audiosurfer

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ok one more thing is i'd say add hp rock as a mention in oo to ko megazard y (gets an ohko only w/ modest + life orb though so i'd mention that). other than that looks good :) implement that small thing and you can get writing.

QC 2/3
 
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