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Shelgon

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by athleteandy1, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    383
    [Overview]

    <p>Shelgon is a highly underrated Pokemon. He is often known as the younger brother of the great Salamence, and faces stiff competition. However, Shelgon gained a new toy with the advent of BW: Eviolite. Additionally, he has wonderful defensive typing and great stats to either sweep or wall. However, Shelgon's miserable Special Defense and Speed hinder him in his duties as a wall or a sweeper. Don't let this discourage you; Shelgon is a very good Pokemon and can work wonders on a team built to support him.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Dragon Dance
    move 4: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shelgon's bulk, combined with his decent Attack stat and Dragon Dance, make him an excellent candidate for a boosting RestTalk set. Rest and Sleep Talk keep Shelgon healthy and free of status ailments. Dragon Dance is used to boost Shelgon's Attack and Speed, which allows him to sweep unprepared teams after just a couple of turns. Outrage serves as a powerful STAB move and works well with Rest and Sleep Talk. If Outrage is selected by Sleep Talk, Shelgon isn't locked into it, nor does he get confused from fatigue after using it too long. Dragon Claw is also an option if you won't be attacking with Shelgon while he's asleep. It should be noted that the power difference between Dragon Claw and Outrage is noticable.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature along with maximum Special Defense buff out Shelgon's weaker defensive side, and it allows him to take both physical and special hits. Eviolite is the obvious item choice, as it allows Shelgon to take strong hits with ease. Overcoat would be useful if Shelgon happens to be battling during hail, but it is illegal with Sleep Talk, so Rock Head is the better choice.</p>

    <p>Steel-types are very bothersome to this set, being the only type to resist Shelgon's STAB move. It's recommended that you partner Shelgon with either Magneton or Dugtrio to trap and KO any Steel-type in RU. Magneton also shares good defensive synergy with Shelgon. Taunt is also a hard stop to this set, preventing Shelgon from using three out of his four moves. Again, Magneton is a good partner as it can hit the two most common Taunt users, Mandibuzz and Murkrow, with STAB Thunderbolt. Toxic Spikes allow Shelgon to wear down the opponent as he sets up, while clerics are needed as teammates because they can heal Shelgon of his sleep if he is forced out while Resting.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wish
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic / Roar
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Fire Blast
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Careful / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shelgon was blessed with Wish, allowing him to heal himself or his teammates. Protect ensures that Shelgon is not KOed before he is able to receive his own Wish. Toxic works well in tandem with Wish and Protect, slowly wearing down the opponent. Roar is also an option if you don't want Shelgon to be set up on, but he loses his main way to damage the opponent. Dragon Claw fills out the last slot, providing a reliable STAB move to hit hard. Fire Blast is also an option, hitting Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature lowers Shelgon's Special Attack and should therefore only be used with Dragon Claw, while a Calm nature lowers Shelgon's Attack and should only be used with Fire Blast. Both of the natures raise Shelgon's weaker defensive side and allow him to take special hits more easily. Rock Head should be used because of Overcoat's illegality with Wish. Eviolite is greatly appreciated as it allows Shelgon to survive strong attacks that would normally KO him.</p>

    <p>Steel-types are still a pain, but can be beaten by Fire Blast. Poison-types can beat this set, absorbing Toxic and taking neutral damage from Dragon Claw. Magneton can beat all Steel-types and most Poison-types. Dugtrio can trap both with his ability, Arena Trap, and hit them super effectively with STAB Earthquake. Pokemon with Rest counter this set wholly unless Shelgon is carrying Roar. It is best to pair Shelgon with a Pokemon who can take advantage of the turns that the opponent will be asleep. Durant resists both of Shelgon's weaknesses and can set up Hone Claws on a sleeping Pokemon. Porygon-Z and Ursaring can set up on a Pokemon who is asleep, but share no synergy with Shelgon. Taunt is another option to beat Pokemon with Rest. Murkrow and Mandibuzz are good examples of this, but they share Shelgon's weakness to Ice-type moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set sacrifices some defensive prowess for the ability to set up. Dragon Dance is one of the best setup moves in the game, and it's used to raise Shelgon's Attack and Speed to sweeping levels. Outrage is a powerful STAB attack and hits everything that doesn't resist it hard. Fire Blast is in the third moveslot because most Steel-types are weaker on their special side. Steelix and Durant are the most common Steel-types in RU, and both have lower Special Defense than Defense. However, Fire Fang is still an option as it gets boosted by Dragon Dance. The last moveslot is mainly filler; Dragon Claw picks off weakened Pokemon after a Dragon Dance, and it doesn't lock Shelgon into Outrage. Substitute makes it easier to set up, and it blocks harmful status moves such as Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature, combined with maximum Speed, allows Shelgon outspeed positive natured base 95 Speed Pokemon after one Dragon Dance. An offensive Shelgon set faces stiff competition from Altaria, and is only worth considering because of Shelgon's higher base Attack and ability to utilize Eviolite. Rock Head is the superior ability because the combination of Dragon Dance and Outrage is illegal with Overcoat. Eviolite should always be used as it is one of the things that separates Shelgon from Altaria. Life Orb is still a possibility, but it sacrifices Shelgon's ability to set up on offensively weak Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Steel-types still cause problems for this set, fearing only a Fire Blast coming off a base 60 Special Attack. Magneton and Dugtrio can trap and OHKO troublesome Steel-types. A burn can stop Shelgon cold, so it is best to pair Shelgon with a Fire-type who can switch in and absorb Will-O-Wisp. Cofagrigus and Dusknoir are very bulky, allowing them to stop Shelgon in his tracks. Fast Ice-types such as Glaceon or Rotom-F can outspeed Shelgon and KO him with a STAB Blizzard. Again, Fire-types make good teammates as they can defeat all of the aforementioned threats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shelgon's movepool isn't too bad, but most of his other options are outclassed by the sets above. Zen Headbutt, Crunch, Return, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide, Aerial Ace, Double-Edge, and Brick Break are all good physical moves, but provide no extra coverage than the moves listed. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are powerful special attacks, but Shelgon's shabby base 60 Special Attack means they won't be dealing much damage. Iron Defense is interesting and would make Shelgon a mountain of physical defense, but is generally not worth a moveslot. Dragon Rush is weaker than Outrage and has worse accuracy than Dragon Claw, making it a poor choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types resist Shelgon's STAB and only fear Fire Blast coming off a base 60 Special Attack. Faster Ice-types such as Rotom-F and Jynx outspeed Shelgon and can OHKO him with their STAB Ice-type moves. Bulky Ghost-types can switch into Outrage and burn Shelgon, practically making him a non-threat. Priority isn't the most effective way of defeating Shelgon; he has such a high Defense that he can sponge most priority attacks, but they will eventually wear him down. The best way to counter Shelgon is to prevent him from setting up in the first place by blasting him on his weaker Special Defense.</p>
  2. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

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    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    110
    No mention of Wish?
  3. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    ^ It needs more than a mention, I'd even say a full set. Fully defensive Shelgon is a great physical wall.

    Mention what speed teir offensive DD actually outspeeds (Positive Base 95's). Also mention that it faces stiff competition from Altaria, and is really only worth considering for its superior Attack stat.

    I'd mention Dragon Claw over Double-Edge. They have effectively the same power thanks to STAB, and Double-Edge doesn't get any coverage that Dragon Claw doesn't already offer.
  4. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    383
    I forgot about wish :p but i don't think it deserves its own set, so I just slashed it in on the two current sets where I felt it appropriate. Noted what tier it outspeeds, and slashed dragon claw as primary and got moved double-edge to oo
  5. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
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    ^ Au contraire, Andy. Wish got its own set for UU, and Shelgon's typing and defenses with Eviolite make it ideal for Wish stalling. It can also support the team with it, 167 HP Wishes may not be huge, but they're not bad.

    In addition, Wish doesn't belong on either of the two current sets. They're made for sweeping, not walling or support. Besides which, iirc Wish is illegal with several of Shelgon's better moves, like Outrage. I'm pretty sure it's also illegal with Dragon Dance.
  6. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Sep 19, 2010
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    Well, F. This'll take some serious re-writing.

    Edit: Got it.
  7. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    145
    Outrage also doesn't cause fatigue confusion when executed via Sleep Talk.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  9. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Mention Heal Bell support on the first set.

    Honestly, it's probably better for the Wish set to have Roar and Toxic slashed, and then have Dragon Claw / Fire Blast slashed into the last slot.

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    what windsong said

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Cool. Will write this up soon.
  12. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    This is written up.
  13. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Show Hide


    Half done
  14. TTar13

    TTar13

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    I believe Wish and Sleep Talk are illegal with overcoat and the combination of dd and outrage is illegal with overcoat.
  15. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    He's right. Change the ability on all sets to Rock Head, and mention Overcoat in OO explaining that it's illegal with Wish, Sleep Talk, and DD+Outrage.
  16. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Show Hide


    Edit
    Remove

    [​IMG]
  17. Honko

    Honko
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    Ability tags for the last two sets still need to be fixed.
  18. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    This is updated
  19. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    GP CHECK 2/2

    blue is additions
    red is removals

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Shelgon is a highly underrated Pokemon. He is often known as the younger brother of the great Salamence, and faces stiff competition. However, Shelgon gained a new toy with the advent of BW: Eviolite. Not to mention Additionally, he has wonderful defensive typing and great stats to either sweep or wall. However, Shelgon's miserly miserable Special Defense and Speed hinder him in his duties as a wall or a sweeper. Don't let this discourage you; Shelgon is a very good Pokemon, and can work wonders on a team built to support him.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Shelgon
    move1: Rest
    move2: Sleep Talk
    move3: Dragon Dance
    move4: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shelgon's bulk, combined with his decent Attack stat and Dragon Dance, make him an excellent candidate for a boosting RestTalk set set. Rest and Sleep Talk keep Shelgon healthy and free of status ailments. Dragon Dance is used to boost Shelgon's Attack and Speed, which allows him to sweep unprepared teams after just a couple of turns. Outrage serves as a powerful STAB move, for Shelgon and works well with Rest and Sleep Talk. If Outrage is selected by Sleep Talk, Shelgon isn't locked into it, nor does he get confused from fatigue after using it too long. Dragon Claw is also an option if you won't be attacking with Shelgon while he's asleep. It should be noted that the power difference between Dragon Claw and Outrage is noticable, so if you're aiming to deal heavy damage, Outrage is the better choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature along with maximum Special Defense buff out Shelgon's weaker defensive side, and it allows him to take both physical and special hits. Eviolite is the obvious item choice, as it allows Shelgon to take strong hits with ease. gives Shelgon's defenses a huge boost. Overcoat would be useful in the odd chance that Shelgon is if Shelgon happens to be battling during hail, but it is illegal with Sleep Talk, so Rock Head is the better choice.</p>

    <p>Steel-types are very bothersome to this set, being the only type to resist Shelgon's STAB move. It's recommended that you partner Shelgon with either Magneton or Dugtrio to trap and KO any Steel-type in RU. Magneton also shares good defensive synergy with Shelgon. Taunt is also a hard stop to this set, not allowing Shelgon to use preventing Shelgon from using three out of his four moves. Again, Magneton is a good partner as it can hit the two most common Taunt users, Mandibuzz and Murkrow, with STAB Thunderbolt. Toxic Spikes allow Shelgon to wear down the opponent as he sets up, while clerics are needed as teammates because they can heal Shelgon of his sleep if he is forced out while Resting.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wish
    move1: Wish
    move2: Protect
    move3: Toxic / Roar
    move4: Dragon Claw / Fire Blast
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Careful / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shelgon was blessed with Wish, allowing him to heal himself or his teammates. Protect ensures that Shelgon is not KOed before he is able to receive his own Wish. Toxic works well in tandem with Wish and Protect, slowly wearing down the opponent. while they can't do much in return. Roar is also an option if you don't want Shelgon to be set up on, but he loses his main way to damage the opponent. Dragon Claw fills out the last slot, providing a reliable STAB move to hit hard. Fire Blast is also an option, hitting Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature lowers Shelgon's Special Attack and should therefore only be used with Dragon Claw. Calm Claw, while a Calm nature lowers Shelgon's Attack and should only be used with Fire Blast. Both of the natures raise Shelgon's weaker defensive side stat and allow him to take stronger special hits more easily. Rock Head should be used because of Overcoat's illegality with Wish. Eviolite is greatly appreciated as it allows Shelgon to survive strong attacks that would normally KO him.</p>

    <p>Steel-types are still a pain, but can be beaten by Fire Blast. Poison-types can beat this set, absorbing Toxic and taking neutral damage from Dragon Claw. Magneton can beat all Steel-types and most Poison-types. Dugtrio can trap both with his ability, Arena Trap, and hit them super effectively with STAB Earthquake. Pokemon with Rest counter this set wholly unless Shelgon is carrying Roar. It is best to pair Shelgon with a Pokemon who can take advantage of the turns that the opponent will be asleep. Durant resists both of Shelgon's weaknesses and can set up Hone Claws on a sleeping Pokemon. Porygon-Z and Ursaring can set up on a Pokemon who is asleep, but share no synergy with Shelgon. Taunt is another option to beat Pokemon with Rest. Murkrow and Mandibuzz are good examples of this, Taunt users, but they share Shelgon's weakness to Ice-type moves.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dancing Dragon
    move1: Dragon Dance
    move2: Outrage
    move3: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    move4: Dragon Claw / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set sacrifices some defensive prowess for the ability to set up. Dragon Dance is one of the best setup moves in the game, and it's used to raise Shelgon's Attack and Speed to sweeping levels. Outrage is a powerful STAB attack and hits everything that doesn't resist it hard. Fire Blast is in the third moveslot because most Steel-types are weaker on their special side. Steelix and Durant are the most common Steel-types in RU, and both have lower Special Defense than Defense. However, Fire Fang is still an option as it gets boosted by Dragon Dance. The last moveslot is mainly a filler; Dragon Claw picks off weakened Pokemon after a Dragon Dance, and it doesn't lock Shelgon into Outrage. Substitute makes it easier to set up, and it blocks harmful status moves such as Thunder Wave or and Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature, combined with maximum Speed, allows Shelgon outspeed positive natured base 95 Speed Pokemon after one Dragon Dance. An offensive Shelgon set faces stiff competition from Altaria, and is only worth considering because of Shelgon's higher base Attack and ability to use the utilize Eviolite. Rock Head is the superior ability because the combination of Dragon Dance and Outrage is illegal with Overcoat. Eviolite should always be used as it is one of the things that separates him Shelgon from Altaria. Life Orb is still a possibility, but it sacrifices Shelgon's ability to set up.</p>

    <p>Steel-types still cause problems for this set, fearing only a Fire Blast coming off a base 60 Special Attack. Magneton and Dugtrio can trap and OHKO the troublesome Steel-types. A burn can stop Shelgon cold, so it is best to pair Shelgon with a Fire-type who can switch in and absorb Will-O-Wisp. Cofagrigus and Dusknoir are very bulky, allowing them to stop Shelgon in its tracks. and make it difficult for Shelgon to get past. Fast Ice-types such as Glaceon or Rotom-F can outspeed Shelgon and KO him with a STAB Blizzard. Again, Fire-types make good teammates as they can defeat all of the aforementioned threats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shelgon's movepool isn't too bad, but most of his other options are outclassed by the sets above. Zen Headbutt, Crunch, Return, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide, Aerial Ace, Double-Edge, and Brick Break are all good physical moves, but provide no extra coverage than the moves listed. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are powerful special attacks, but Shelgon's shabby base 60 Special Attack means they won't be dealing much damage. Iron Defense is interesting and would make grant Shelgon a mountain extreme amounts of physical defense, bulk, but is generally not worth a moveslot. Dragon Rush is weaker than Outrage and has worse accuracy than Dragon Claw, making it a poor choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types resist Shelgon's STAB and only fear Fire Blast coming off a base 60 Special Attack. Faster Ice-types such as Rotom-F and Jynx outspeed Shelgon and can OHKO him with their STAB Ice-type moves. Bulky Ghost-types can switch into Outrage and burn Shelgon, practically nulling neutering him. Priority isn't the most effective way of defeating Shelgon; he has such a high Defense stat that he can sponge most priority attacks, but they will eventually wear him down. The best way to counter Shelgon is to stop prevent him from setting up.</p>


    [​IMG]
  20. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    383
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    andy, you have to be sure you put a space between the word move and the number, otherwise the moves won't show up when uploaded. So they should look like this:

    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Substitute

    not

    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move1: Dragon Dance
    move2: Outrage
    move3: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    move4: Dragon Claw / Substitute


    uploaded

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