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Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by TombolaMan, Sep 21, 2010.
Omastar learns it by Level Up, no?
Cloyster managing to 2HKO 2 pokemon with a 125 BP Super Effective STAB attack at +2 is far from impressive; it is expected. Especially considering that it won't be getting to +2.
I'm still surprised no one has mentioned Shell Break + Baton Pass Gorebyss or Huntail.
If you take away all of that, you're just leaving Cloyster's base Atk. Base Atk alone does not determine sweeping potential. What matters is what the Pokemon can do with that stat using the other stats, moves, and abilities available to them, and Cloyster can do all of those exceedingly well.
And what's this about 2HKOing Pokemon weak to Icicle Spear? I don't see any Ice-weak Pokemon on that list surviving even one hit. And some of those are the most defensive Pokemon in the game.
Life Orb Stabbed Skill Linked Icicle Spear is a beast even without a Shell Break, especially given max Attack EVs (naturally). With a Shell Break? Specialist counters and random things carrying electric moves are its only issue that I can see so far.
And of course, if IS is resisted, there's Rock Blast for the same just sans Stab, and Hydro Pump for even more power with Stab, just a little less accurate. What is it, 7 types that Ice Rock and Water hit for Super Effective between them? And there aren't many that resist all three - neutral damage is still hefty with this.
Cloyster probably has more general utility than Omastar to be honest, but Omastar's resistance to Stealth Rock and insane Special Attack make it a huge threat. Certainly if you throw it in as a revenger against something that won't OHKO it, your opponent has a problem
Clamperl + DeepSeaTooth + Shell Break @ Little Cup = YEAH
Too bad DeepSeaTooth is banned, but DeepSeaScale is still there, boosting it's defences. After a Shell Break, the defences will be like the Scale never was there, but with the Shell Break boost. Let the sweep begin.
I don't know if this will work, but it would be cool.
2HKOing was the wrong term, I was thinking of the move's multi-hit nature. I'm saying that, with so many boosts on top, you would expect Cloyster to be able to KO those pokemon - maybe identifying some neutral targets would be more impressive?
Well, he could paralyze him.
45.33% - 53.57% via Icicle Spear, 32.47% to 2HKO accounting Stealth Rock and Leftovers, 90.51% with only 1 layer of spikes.
That assumption is also discounting the fact that it breaks Sash, Sturdy, and Substitute.
yea shell break is a good move but i wish it was avaliable to more pokemon than some pokemon from the little cup and NU tier.
I actually like the idea of these having it, because they really needed a boost to make them competitively viable
Iwaparesu @ Life Orb
172 Speed / 78 Spec. Attk / 252 Attack
Hidden Power ( Fire ) / Hidden Power ( Psychic )
Shell Break: Iwaparesu's awesome sweeping tool, with 31/31/31/30/31/30 IVs (HP Fire) it will reach 578 Attack, 368 Spec. Attack, and 368 Speed. With HP Psychic IVs (31/31/30/31/31/30) it gets to 578 Attack, 370 Spec. Attack, and 368 Speed.
Stone Edge: Main form of STAB for Iwaparesu, it does massive damage to most things that dont resist it, doing 60.48+ to skarmory after Shell Break.
Vs. 248/252 Milotic:
578 Atk vs 282 Def & 393 HP (100 Base Power): 288 - 339 (73.28% - 86.26%)
Vs 252/0 Heracross:
578 Atk vs 186 Def & 364 HP (100 Base Power): 433 - 511 (118.96% - 140.38%)
Vs. 252/252 Blissey:
578 Atk vs 130 Def & 714 HP (100 Base Power): 619 - 730 (86.69% - 102.24%)
VS. 252/0 Heatran:
578 Atk vs 248 Def & 386 HP (100 Base Power): 325 - 384 (84.20% - 99.48%)
Hidden Power (Fire or Psychic):
It may seem silly using special attacks on a base 65 Spec. Attack, but it gets 368 Spec. Attack after Shell Break with Hidden Power Fire's IVs. With HP Fire, it will always OHKO scizor switching in planning to revenge kill it with Bullet Punch. Also :
Vs. 252 / 0 Skarm :
368 Atk vs 176 Def & 334 HP (70 Base Power): 272 - 322 (81.44% - 96.41%)
Vs. 4 / 0 Breloom :
368 Atk vs 156 Def & 262 HP (70 Base Power): 308 - 364 (117.56% - 138.93%)
Vs. 4 / 0 Lucario :
368 Atk vs 176 Def & 282 HP (70 Base Power): 272 - 322 (96.45% - 114.18%)
Vs. 60 / 0 Metagross :
368 Atk vs 216 Def & 316 HP (70 Base Power): 224 - 264 (70.89% - 83.54%)
Vs. 252/0 Steelix :
368 Atk vs 166 Def & 354 HP (70 Base Power): 290 - 342 (81.92% - 96.61%)
With HP Psychic, it reached 370 Special attack, and it can do 82.04-97.01% to Weezing, always OHKO Toxicroak, and 2HKO (61.46% - 72.40%) 252/0 Machamp.
Earthquake or X-scissor
With Earthquake, it can always OHKO any Heatran, 252/0 Jirachi, and 252/0 Tyranitar, but it loses to Celebi. With X-scissor, it can always kill Celebi, and a (more) reliable way to take on Tangrowth and other grasses.
NOTE: THIS IS THEORYMON BASED ON THE 4TH GEN METAGAME
Actually, the damage on smogon's damage calculator is slightly different because you get a different damage output for putting in 5 hits at 25 BP, rather than 125 BP. Maybe multi-hit moves do different damage because it applies the damage formula to each hit, instead of just all 5 hits. I'm not completely sure if this is true though. However, Icicle Spear is actually doing a little bit more than what you got.
Ie. Against Lugia, the damage from +2 Icicle Spear Cloyster to 252 HP/252 Def Bold Lugia is 103.4% - 125%, and not 103.85% - 122.60%. It's not a lot more, but it's something to keep in mind.
I posted a similar set a page ago. But I went with max speed to get to 414 and max attack, with the moves Stone Edge, EQ, X Scissor, Shell Break. This thing could be deadly if used at the right time!
Omastar all the way
shell break is broken
The most "Broken" Shell Break user is Omastar, with the ability outspeed even CS Deoxys-e in the rain after a boost and to OHKO Blissey most of the time with a boosted Hydro Pump. With base 115 Defense, you'd think he'd be tough as nails too.
Priority maims almost every Shell Break user horribly. In fact, looking at your list, I don't see any Shell Breakers not destroyed by some priority attack or another. All this means is that more Pokemon will begin wielding Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave and Aqua Jet. Extremespeed, Sucker Punch and Quick Attack (Still good on CB Scizor) will also be used more.
In 2006, the exact same thing was said about Rock Polish Rampardos.
We do not know if it's broken, until we've tried it out.
Torkoal can shed it's Aqua Jet weakness with Sunny Day/ Drought Ninetales though.
Also resists Bullet Punch. And has very high def.
I can see some degree of usefulness on Torkoal since it's one of the only ones that doesn't fear priority (again, with Sun support).
Bolded because i know some people could misread what i said.
Also, Cloyster can opt for using priority too. Although the most common Vacuum Wave users resists Ice Shard... But now Technician Breloom can't just come in and revenge it.
No, Shell Break isn't broken.
When Baton Passing Shell Break, do you also pass the defence drops, or only the offensive boosts?
Also defence drops. White herb can help with that though.
At worst, Cloyster can switch into SR before it sets up, take Scizor's CB Bullet Punch at -1 Def, and still have over 10% health remaining. This means that it can KO Scizor with Shell Break, and still take something else out with Explosion (as long as they don't resist it) before being killed by LO recoil. I forget the exact EV spread I used for that calc, but it had just enough Speed to outrun Timid Scarf Heatran. Keep in mind that Cloyster can also run White Herb over Life Orb to give it a better ability to take priority moves.
You Baton Pass all stat changes.
Your welcome for the calcs in the OP. ;) Totally C/P-ed them from my thread.
or the other player is smart and sacs whatever is in on cloyster to hit it for a shitton, and THEN bring in scizor to bullet punch.
How many pokemon have a combination of
A) No special attacks
B) No status /phazing moves
C) No taunt
D) No physical fighting or rock or electric attacks
that are OU/uber?
Cloyster can only set up if all of those conditions above are met.... and thats a lot of ifs.