Shift Gear Genesect?! - First Shot at Ubers

[saxtonhale]

Ahoy everyone, this is saxton, attempting to break into the Ubers tier. Honestly, it's mostly because Genesect is my boy and I wanted to be able to use him while actually presenting a decent team overall. It seemed right to use the style that I'm most familiar with, that being sun. I don't really know how to classify this team, because it certainly isn't stall, but it's not super offensive either. I've watched enough Ubers matches to understand the tier's threats, but teambuilding is another thing entirely and I could honestly use some help on this team, even though it actually works surprisingly well.

Let's begin!

Groudon @ Leftovers
252 HP | 4 Atk | 252 Def
Trait: Drought
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
Stealth Rock | Thunder Wave | Earthquake | Fire Blast
Groudon is not here only because he provides sun; he's overall just a fantastic poke in Ubers, thanks to his great physical bulk and solid attacking prowess despite minimal investment. But the sun is not the only thing keeping this team going; therfore, perhaps calling it a "sun team" isn't entirely accurate. It is much more "a team that happens to benefit from sun." Luckily, this also heavily alleviates the need for a spinner. But back to Groudon! Stealth Rock is the best move in the game, and Groudon makes for an excellent setter of it, almost always managing to get up a layer. However, he matches up very badly with some common pokes in Ubers, namely Kyogre, Palkia and the like, forcing me to run Cress as his special partner. But he does what needs doing admirably. Earthquake and Fire Blast provide pretty good coverage in Ubers, especially seeing as Groudon boosts his own Fire Blasts. The most important move here, though, is Thunder Wave. Besides Palkia, my team is fairly slow by Ubers standards. T-Wave not only allows Groudon to outpace some leads, but greatly supports Genesect and Zekrom. Overall, I'm very happy with Groudon.

Cresselia @ Light Clay
252 HP | 96 Def | 160 SpDef
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Calm (+SpDef, -Atk)
Lunar Dance | Thunder Wave | Light Screen | Reflect

I'm pretty happy with Cresselia, who is just a defensive monster under sun, but I also find myself rarely utilizing Dual Screens, despite them being very helpful to this team. Really, her job is to just sit there and get slapped around while setting up screens and T-Waveing threats. Lunar Dance is useful, but I find myself never using it. I know it's very vulnerable to Taunt, but rarely is it out long enough for that to matter. What she does well, though, she does VERY well. Switching in on EQs is a fantastic thing for a poke to be able to do, and this allows for easy setting of screens (should I feel the need to.) Overall, Cresselia is obviously good but I don't know if she's the right fit for the team. Any suggestions would be great.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
4 HP | 252 SpAtk | 252 Speed
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Fire Blast | Surf | Thunder | Spacial Rend

Really, Palkia is here for two reasons: one, it can go toe to toe with Kyogre and live to tell the tale. Two, it's blisteringly fast and has fantastic coverage to complement its killer SpAtk. Despite lack of investment, this thing is pretty darn bulky, thanks to its surprisingly good defensive typing. Fire Blast is great for Steel types, and it gets lovely pseudo-STAB thanks to papa Groudon. Surf isn't notably strong, nor does it see much use, but it's great if my weather gets turned and it does a number on Heatran. Thunder is what grants Palkia its ability to tackle Kyogre, exploiting its weather and outspeeding it, while also 4x resisting the mighty Water Spout, while only being neutral to Ice Beam and Thunder. However, should I be facing the uncommon CM Kyogre, I'm kind of helpless. Spacial Rend is a fantastic STAB attack, gaining perfect coverage with Fire Blast while having a delicious crit chance. Overall, I'm quite pleased with Palkia, but should anyone have a better replacement, I'd be quite open.

Zekrom @ Life Orb
104 HP | 148 Atk | 252 SpAtk | 4 Spe
Trait: Teravolt
Nature: Lonely (+Atk, -Def)
Bolt Strike | Draco Meteor | Dragon Claw | Focus Blast
Zekrom is a pretty cool poke, let's be real, and he makes for a great mixed attacker, if not being a bit redundant with Palkia. However, that is rule one of Ubers: You can NEVER have too many checks to Kyogre. While he cannot switch in as easily, he's quite adept at revenging Kyogre. Bolt Strike is obligatory and powerful STAB, nailing the myriad of Water and Flying types in the tier for superb damage. Draco Meteor is Zekrom's nuke, as it only needs to hit once to make a huge difference, and allows me to nail switch-ins who think I'm choiced. However, I will only use Meteor should I not predict a need for Focus Blast, as that will allow any Steel type to set up while I switch out. Dragon Claw was a better choice than Outrage, obviously because it doesn't lock me in and it allows me to nail Dragons and Ground types without wasting Draco. Focus Blast grants Zekrom perfect mixed coverage, but its dodgy accuracy makes me skeptical. Overall, I am pleased with Zekrom, but it seems a bit redundant with Palkia, and any ideas for replacements would be appreciated.

Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
252 HP | 144 SpDef | 112 Spe
Trait: Multitype
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Recover | Ice Beam | Grass Knot | Thunder Wave
Grassceus has really surprised me. This thing can literally do anything. Want something to eat the endless special attacks of the tier? Arceus is your man. Want to destroy Kyogre? Arceus. Mewtwo a problem? Arceus can take 'em (well, most of them.) Want a great supporter? 'Sup. Grassceus is a great poke, giving me a third check to Kyogre while also providing invaluable support (he may even be the best poke on the team.) Recover makes Arceus stick around for approximately forever. Ice Beam and Grass Knot do heaps of damage, even without investment. It may seem an odd choice over Judgment, but Grass Knot nails Kyogre even harder, so there's your logic. Ice Beam allows the lightning-quick Arceus to take down Dragons. Thunder Wave is a fantastic support option, but I may consider WoW (especially if Cress leaves.) Overall, extremely pleased with Grassceus. However, suggestions will always be considered.

Genesect @ Life Orb
4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
Trait: Download
Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
Shift Gear | Blaze Kick | Iron Head | X-Scissor

I know this set may seem outclassed, and you may feel free to laugh at it. But you'd be laughing at a massively underrated, very dangerous late-game cleaner. This thing is seriously scary. While it loses the ability to spam crazy U-turns, it gains the ability to double its Speed and possibly its Attack as well. As many switch out when they see Genesect, setting up a Shift Gear is remarkably easy. More importantly, this set has surprise factor on its side. Iron Head and X-Scissor are dual STABs and provide very solid neautral coverage, which is rounded out by the sun-boosted Blaze Kick. See what I meant when I said this was not a sun team, but one that benefitted from it? After an SG, Gene outspeeds Mewtwo and Darkrai and wrecks them with X-Scissor. Those two give me massive amounts of trouble, and the ability to just wipe them out like that is incredible. I've considered E-Belt as well, but Life Orb seems better. Here are some calcs showing this thing's massive power (these all count on Gene getting an Attack boost from Download):
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 351-413 (86.88 - 102.22%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn in sun: 1087-1279 (308.8 - 363.35%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 697-821 (197.45 - 232.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Giratina: 273-321 (54.27 - 63.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 104 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 253-300 (54.17 - 64.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 810-954 (287.23 - 338.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 183-216 (45.29 - 53.46%) -- 40.23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This thing seriously wrecks shit. I seriously recommend giving this set a try, it will perform miracles for you. However, as always, feel free to suggest improvements (though personally this was the set i built the team around, so eh.)

Thanks for reading! Please leave suggestions, lord knows I could use them.

-saxton


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[Haruno]

Just out of curiosity how do you stop ekiller, sub roost ho oh and rayquaza? Twave support is undoubtedly nice but 3 users is just overkill and generally not needed.

 

[saxtonhale]

That's the kind of thing I'm here to figure out. I would love to find something to counter those pokes.

 

[Hopkinc1]

It might be beneficial to you to switch this team to a rain team, and switch blaze kick to a different move. this would help aleviate your Grasseus and Genesects weakness to fire moves, as well as allow you to spam thunders and surfs, and with Kyogre water spouts if you decide to use scarf/specs Kyogre. I'd then probably switch my Zekrom to a rocks setter or just put rocks on arceus.I'd also recommend putting a rock type coverage move on grasseus. This gives him coverage to 4/5 types that he is weak to, only leaving you open to poison type attacks. I know a lot of this advice kind of vague, but i'm going to be late for class lol so sorry about that.

 

[Blue Jay]

It might be beneficial to you to switch this team to a rain team, and switch blaze kick to a different move. this would help aleviate your Grasseus and Genesects weakness to fire moves, as well as allow you to spam thunders and surfs, and with Kyogre water spouts if you decide to use scarf/specs Kyogre. I'd then probably switch my Zekrom to a rocks setter or just put rocks on arceus.I'd also recommend putting a rock type coverage move on grasseus. This gives him coverage to 4/5 types that he is weak to, only leaving you open to poison type attacks. I know a lot of this advice kind of vague, but i'm going to be late for class lol so sorry about that.

Rain is far more detrimental than beneficial to Genesect. Without Blaze Kick, it fails to deal any significant damage to any steel types, as all its attacks are resisted by them. At any rate, its fire weakness is irrelevant as it is too frail to survive most fire attacks even in rain and at +2 speed nothing but a priority move is fast enough to hit it.

 

[saxtonhale]

That's why I run Sun over Rain. This team was more built to work well with Groudon, and Blaze Kick destroys Steels.

 

[Haruno]

Honestly the best way to fix some of your problems is to ditch twave on groudon/grasseus since the only members of your team that aren't fast are zekrom and groudon. Everything should be still be able to outspeed without twave support anyhow. And you still have a major weakness to ekiller/setup ray/subroost ho oh since without reflect up the game essentially ends.

 

[Nglittleguy]

Use espeed on genesect. Blaze kick doesn't hit anything notable (bulky waters, ho-oh). espeed also gives you some nifty priority that nothing can outspeed after shift gear.

 

[Haruno]

Use espeed on genesect. Blaze kick doesn't hit anything notable (bulky waters, ho-oh). espeed also gives you some nifty priority that nothing can outspeed after shift gear.

Still walled to death by bulky steels and +1 blaze kick 2hkos ferro in rain which is nice.

 

[saxtonhale]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'll try out everything. Does anyone have suggestions for replacements? I've heard I'm weak to Ekiller and Ho-Oh, anything that could stop them?

 

[xDesch]

Ok, this team can need some changes.
Exchange Cresselia, with Scarf Dialga

Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 Def / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Aura Sphere
- Sleep Talk

A good Darkrai counter, Every move OHKO's him in sun after SR. He does wonders regarding weakened E-Killer Arcues. He can't take EQ's like Cresselia, but I think He'll do good anyways. 0 Atk IV's for the lol's (Super Weak Foul Play).
Next, 2 Scarfers ain't a good Idea :/ I've seen Scarfed Volt-Turn used to great success, but it's in genreal weak to stall, So I'd reccomend using Specs over Scarf for Palkia with the same moves, but Draco > Spacial Rend.

Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 20 Spd / 236 HP / 252 SDef
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Recover

Ok, short about this one; your special wall, Outspeeds Max Speed HO-Oh, Deals massive damage with Stone Edge, you loses you beloved T-wave, in order to counter the arguably strongest Uber in the Sun. (At least another way to hurt him.)

Moving onto Groudon. Use Stone Edge over EQ. You need to stop Ho-Oh somehow, it also gives you a way to kill Xatu, (who're often paired with HO-Oh) to reliably set up SR. another possible change is using Dragon Tail over Fire Blast. Dragon Tail helps against Set up sweepers, I don't think you need a fire move on Groudon, Genesect can set up on a lot of Steel-Types. (but watch out for T-wave Ferrothorn.)

I love the Genesect set, but why run Hasty Nature? You probably meant it to be Jolly, but the fact is... that +2 Adamant Genesect Outspeeds max speed Scarfed Mewtwo and Max speed +2 Blaziken. So why run Hasty when you can run Adamant?
EDIT: I realized that Genesect is event locked (shows how much experience I have with him) into Hasty nature. So instead of going overkill on speed give him 168 Speed EV's and invest the rest in bulk, he don't really need more speed than that.
Hope I helped! :)

 

[MrKijani]

Ok,
I love the Genesect set, but why run Hasty Nature? You probably meant it to be Jolly, but the fact is... that +2 Adamant Genesect Outspeeds max speed Scarfed Mewtwo and Max speed +2 Blaziken. So why run Hasty when you can run Adamant?
Hope I helped! :)

Genesect needs to run Hasty to have Blaze Kick

 

[saxtonhale]

Dude, that's really helpful, thanks!
Also, SG Genesect is event-locked as Hasty, I would definitely be running Adamant if I could. Thanks again!

 

[saxtonhale]

Okay, several comments.
Stone Edge has helped my Arceus kill so much more, can't believe it had never occurred to me.
Dialga has destroyed every Darkrai I've seen, very happy with it (a few guys actually commended Sleep Talk specifically, so nice call!)
Groudon hasn't changed much, but your advice helped a lot anyways.
Thanks all!
-saxton

 

[Blue Jay]

Use espeed on genesect. Blaze kick doesn't hit anything notable (bulky waters, ho-oh). espeed also gives you some nifty priority that nothing can outspeed after shift gear.

Apart from Extremespeed having awful coverage alongside X-Scissor + Iron Head, Genesect already outspeeding the entire metagame at +2, Genesect being walled by virtually all steel types in the game without Blaze Kick and Extremespeed failing to KO anything at all, it's certainly a great move to run on Shift Gear Genesect.

As for the team, Stone Edge is indeed a good idea on Arceus-Grass (Rock Slide does not deal enough damage). However, I would advise you to run 112 speed EVs as is standard. The special bulk is really sufficient for walling most of rain offense even without maximizing it, but running that much speed investment allows Arceus-Grass to outspeed some key threats such as Rayquaza and Garchomp (after all these Pokemon are the reason you have Ice Beam in the first place).

I recommend that Groudon run Dragon Tail over Thunder Wave, as although paralysis support is nice, without Dragon Tail your best switch in for Extremekiller Arceus cannot actually hamper its sweep significantly. Dialga does help to check it, however Aura Sphere does not nearly KO it and it can OHKO Dialga in return. I also advise against replacing Earthquake on Groudon, as it really needs its STAB to deal appreciable damage to most Pokemon due to its lack of Attack investment.

Zekrom is definitely a valuable member of the team, as you have built around Shift Gear Genesect which is unable to beat physical walls, and Zekrom lures and KOs Groudon, while also being able to break the other main physical walls such as Lugia and Giratina with its STAB combination. However, I recommend investing its HP EVs into speed; the current EVs don't really help you survive much (as opponents usually seek to deal with Zekrom with super effective moves), especially with Life Orb and entry hazards eating away at the bulk. Speed EVs would allow it to outspeed the many minimally invested base 90 Pokemon, most notably HO-Oh, which is a significant threat to the team.

Finally, I advise against Specs Palkia and urge you to use Lustrous Orb Palkia (with Spacial Rend, not Draco Meteor) on this team. Although Specs has great power which is quite necessary for some teams, you already have a wallbreaker in Zekrom, and the freedom to switch moves combined with Palkia's great power and superb coverage makes Lustrous Orb Palkia a lot harder to handle for most teams.

 

[saxtonhale]

That's also some good advice. Arceus wasn't outspeeding enough so that helps quite a bit. Lustrous Orb Palkia never occurred to me, I'll give it a try.