1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Shining Stall

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Trinitrotoluene, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene break the silence
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,220
    Shining Stall

    [​IMG]

    Lame team title, eh?

    Weather is seen as an undeniable part of our metagame. In fact, it's been totaled in Eternal's article on weather in The Smog #16 that the weather starters combined are used in one out of two battles. So, I've taken it upon myself to not fall in that conformity of using a weather team (despite all of my 5th Gen RMTs featuring weather abuse). Baton Pass chains have returned to their former limelight, and I have no experience in constructing said types of teams. I'll be working on creating a relatively good Baton Pass chain to RMT here (if I ever do find the time to make one), but until then, I'll have to leave you content with this team I created and tested a few weeks ago, but never got to showcase.

    I created this team after hours of thinking, and I've refined it after a few weeks by identifying obvious weaknesses. This team started out as a more offensive weather-less unit that attempted to counter most of what was flying around in OU at the time. Needless to say, that didn't work out too well. I liked the concept behind that team (pHazing with an offensive spin sans Dragon Tail, being able to tank hits from the varied weathers), but I didn't know how to execute it properly while maintaining offensive momentum. Seeing that I had some experience with Stall before (Another Team Based Around Landorus), I decided to pick myself up and create a stall team. However, I had some requirements for the mons I was going to pick for my team. I needed at least one pHazer, a Spiker, a Steel capable of walling Dragons, a Stealth Rocker, and a means of revenging threats and absorbing Trick, with the last function preferably being on the last Pokemon of the team. I also needed my stalling core to be able to take on all forms of weather, with every member being capable of putting pressure on at least one form of weather, preferably two. So, I already knew my options were limited. Knowing that, I set out on my quest to form the team based on my ideas.



    Team Building Process (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    So, I knew the three most prominent forms of weather in OU at the moment (Sand, Rain, Sun, in that order). The only reasons those weathers were significant is because of their abusers. Sand had Excadrill, Landorus, and the boosted Terrakion to deal with. Rain has the genies, Toxicroak (especially Mynism's), Sharpedo, Starmie, Rotom, and the other semi-common threats to contemplate. Sun has the Fire-types, Chlorophyllers, and sun-enhanced Dragons to deal with. The Dragons themselves are a problem to deal with separately, because of their sheer power. So, I decided to go with an older defensive core, CeleTran to be specific. CeleTran could deal with Rain and Sun, both of which are massive threats in OU. Celebi could deal with Rain and Sand teams while Heatran could put pressure on Hail and Sun. The core also brought Stealth Rock to the table. Now, I just needed a way to mitigate the threat of Sand and Spikes.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Latias and Skarmory brought to the table what this team needed. Skarmory could deal with Sand while Latias could supplement CeleTran in dealing with Rain and Sun, due to the sheer power of their threats and how it can overwhelm one Pokemon dedicated to being a counter. Both could pHaze, but Skarmory brought Spikes to the table while Latias brought the resists Dragon provides to the team alongside a good level of Speed, all at the cost of weaknesses shared with Celebi. Now, that's done and well, but I needed two more Pokemon. I also wanted a second check to Sand, seeing that Sand could overwhelm Skarmory alone, but not when backed up properly by other supporters.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Rotom-W brought crucial resists and a secondary check to the many sand teams in the current metagame. It could deal with Excadrill should it need to, and Landorus doesn't stand a chance (unless it's the SubSD variant). All the mainstream sand sweepers have to watch for Will-o-wisp, and Reuniclus has to watch for Latias, no matter the set (unless it's the FlameTrick set). Rotom-W also gives me a tertiary rain check with its STAB and resistances.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This is the member I'm least sure of. I needed a method of beating the pink blobs and placing more pressure on additional threats that could possibly outspeed my cores and threaten them with their attacks. Terrakion helps in that regard, being faster than pretty much all of unboosted OU while possessing a Close Combat nearly as strong as Garchomp's Outrage (when it was allowed in OU). It could revenge threats stuck on a resisted move and potentially tear through a team weakened by entry hazards. With that, the team was formed. It's worked very well, but I know that it can be improved.




    The Team at a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Importable
    Code:
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 SAtk / 48 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover
    
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
    
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Roar
    
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor


    The Team in Detail

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] | Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 208 HP | 252 SpA | 48 Spe
    IVs: 2 Atk | 30 SpA | 30 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    ~ Nasty Plot
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Hidden Power Fire
    ~ Recover

    Celebi is a threat to many rain teams that choose to forgo the genies and use Water-types alongside Politoed. It's also the first half of the CeleTran core, which can take sun and rain teams on by themselves. The HP EVs allow it to live through what might and will be thrown at it from the standard Starmie and Rotom-W with HP to spare in the rain. The Speed EVs let me hit 247 Speed, letting me speed creep those sitting at 246 and get a relatively strong hit on them with either Hidden Power Fire or Giga Drain. The IVs grant me a 70 base power Hidden Power Fire with the minimum Attack IVs needed for it. Special Attack is maximized to maximize damage output. Nasty Plot was selected to ramp up Celebi's Special Attack even further while Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire were selected to get good coverage. Recover is when Celebi needs that 50% HP increase that it can't get with Giga Drain. Modest was selected because it's the best nature for Celebi in this metagame.



    [​IMG]
    Female | [​IMG] | Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 SpD | 4 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Toxic

    Heatran completes the CeleTran core and is my team's Stealth Rock supplier. It's also my team's primary special wall, taking Hurricanes and non-rain-boosted Surfs without too much trouble. Calm further shapes Heatran's role as a Special wall for my team. The IVs minimize confusion damage, while the EVs maximize Heatran's specially defensive potential. She's my team's main Volcarona and sun counter. Most members of a sun team can't touch it, and it can set Stealth Rock up on Ninetales or choice-locked Fire-type attacks. Toxic cripples every Volcarona bar the ChestoRest variants, and Stealth Rock does a number to sun. Earth Power lets me hit opposing Fire-types for a modest amount of damage. Flamethrower is fun because I get to turn Ninetales's eternal Sun against its teammates weak to it. It also threatens the majority of hail teams lacking the pink blobs, and even then, they can be driven off to take more entry hazard damage with Toxic eventually forcing them out in fear of losing all of their HP prematurely. With Heatran, Hail isn't too much of a problem.

    [​IMG]
    Female | [​IMG] | Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP | 216 Def | 40 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    ~ Spikes
    ~ Whirlwind
    ~ Roost
    ~ Brave Bird

    Skarmory here can take on the sand sweepers of OU and the physical Chlorophyllers lacking a Fire-type move. It's my team's first pHazer and the team's Spiker. It does a good job at getting its hazards down while walling half of the OU tier. It's also a very important member of my team because it takes the Outrages flying in OU (usually from Haxorus or Dragonite) without a sweat, starts laying Spikes, and pHazes them out, forcing them to take more damage upon switching in. I bring Skarmory in when I need to take a strong physical blow targeted at one of my other team members that I know CANNOT take the hit. Spikes is Skarmory's main draw for being on this team, while Whirlwind is its method of abusing entry hazards. Roost, being a reliable source of recovery, is what separates Skarmory from the other physically defensive Spikers. Brave Bird is there to insure that Skarmory isn't complete Taunt bait. It also gets a nice hit on Virizion and Breloom. Impish and the EVs listed allow me to take physical hits very well. I'm pretty sure the 40 Speed EVs outspeed something important, but I'm considering bumping them up 8 EV points to guarantee that I outspeed Wobbuffet.

    [​IMG]
    Female | [​IMG] | Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Recover
    ~ Roar

    Latias is my team's secondary pHazer and rain and sun check. Its typing, coupled with its impressive speed allow me to wall many threats rampaging in OU after one Calm Mind. It's also my main method of beating Reuniclus, a problem for most stall teams to face. I also can sweep with Latias should I attain enough Calm Minds and the entry hazards be laid out already. With this set, I can set up on Reuniclus and other CMers, CM alongside them, and then Roar them out, nullifying their boosts while maintaining mine. However, I've grown to be much more careful about doing that, because my opponents then would catch on and bring in a faster physical attacker, leaving all my work for naught. However, that usually doesn't happen. As I mentioned earlier, Latias is my secondary pHazer. She pHazes while walling the special side of OU. I tend to bring her in when Celebi or Heatran aren't holding up too well to the beatings and need back-up. Calm Mind is frightening because it lets Latias take the attacks coming right at it while bolstering its stronger defense. Dragon Pulse is obligatory STAB and deals a good amount of damage after two Calm Minds. Recover lets Latias stand up to more beatings while Roar helps Latias further abuse entry hazards. The IVs minimize confusion damage while the EVs maximize bulk and Speed, with the last 4 falling into Special Defense.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] | Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP | 120 Def | 136 SpD
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Pain Split
    ~ Will-O-Wisp

    Rotom-W was added initially to serve as a secondary counter to Sand teams. I have found that it works as well being a tertiary rain check and defensive pivot for my team. Its resistances are a key part for my team, and the EVs were borrowed from f and Ojama's sand team. They let Rotom-W survive unboosted Giga Drains and Leaf Blades. Again, the IVs minimize confusion damage. Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt are obligatory STAB and deal a respectable amount of damage, even without the Special Attack EVs. Will-O-Wisp bolsters the physical defense of the rest of my team while forcing even more damage on my opponent. Will-O-Wisp is also the reason sand sweepers fear Rotom-W. Pain Split is unreliable, but it's Rotom-W's only method of recovery outside of Leftovers.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] | Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ X-Scissor

    Terrakion is my team's revenge killer, Trick absorber, and late-game sweeper tied up into one Pokemon. Terrakion enters the battle when I see it fit for it to come in and start wrecking my opponent's team. The EVs are standard fare, maximizing Attack and Speed, with the last 4 EVs being placed in HP. The Choice Scarf and Jolly Nature lets me revenge kill many threats at +1. Close Combat and Stone Edge are obligatory STAB, while Earthquake lets me revenge kill Mynism's Toxicroak. X-Scissor lets me get a slightly stronger blow on the Lati twins without the risk of it missing. Justified mostly is useless, but lets Terrakion benefit from taking a Sucker Punch from Toxicroak before killing it. Should it get that +1 from Justified, then you can kiss at least two members of your team farewell.



    One Last Glance at the Team

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene break the silence
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,220
    【signs of creation】

    [BOX]Orders of Business:
    • Make images for Pokemon []
    • Fix up Table of Contents []
    • Write Preface []
    • Write Team Assembly []
    • Write up Detailed Team Analysis for each member [ ]
    • Write Epilogue [ ]
    • Finish threatlist descriptions for playstyles and individual mons [ ]
    • Rip sprites from overworld sheets for Unova mons in threatlist []
    • Post this! [ ]
    [/BOX]

    [​IMG]
    __________________

    T A B L E__O F__C O N T E N T S:
    __________________
    • [jump=prelude]Preface[/jump]
    • Team Assembly
      • [jump=1]1[/jump]
      • [jump=2]2[/jump]
      • [jump=3]3[/jump]
      • [jump=4]4[/jump]
      • [jump=5]5[/jump]
      • [jump=6]6[/jump]
      • [jump=7]7[/jump]
      • [jump=8]8[/jump]
    • The Team Members
    • Detailed Team Analysis
      • [jump=supernova]Heatran[/jump]
      • [jump=crescendoll]Cresselia[/jump]
      • [jump=kyuubi]Ninetales[/jump]
      • [jump=season]Sawsbuck[/jump]
      • [jump=countercoat]Wobbuffet[/jump]
      • [jump=twirltwirltwirl]Forretress[/jump]
    • Another Perspective
    • [jump=conclusion]Epilogue[/jump]
    • [jump=export]Export to Text[/jump]
    • Threatlists
      • [jump=playstyle]Playstyles[/jump]
      • Individual Threats
        • [jump=offense]Offensive Threats[/jump]
        • [jump=defense]Defensive Threats[/jump]
    [a]prelude[/a][​IMG]
    It's funny, really. This team started up when I was thinking about what was popular in the current OU metagame. It's heavily centralized around Pokemon such as RP Landorus, Scarf Keldeo, and Techniloom. It's to be expected when power of such levels is offered to people. Also, the metagame was centralized around frail offensive mons at the moment, meaning that it would be harder to break bulkier Pokemon. However, the sheer speed that rules the OU metagame makes stall much more difficult to run than in prior metagames. It's this same combination of traits in the OU metagame that led me to Cresselia, a Pokemon too impenetrable for the RU metagame, but too offensively inept to survive in the UU metagame. The support value it brings is immense, and the bulk brought about by 120 / 120 / 130 defenses is incredible. Tyranitar, a mon considered as the bane of most Psychic-types, can only 2HKO Cresselia with Crunch or a switch-boosted Pursuit, even with max Attack and a Choice Band attached to it (relevant calc: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Cresselia: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

    However, even with defenses that could not be penetrated by most of OU and a semi-reliable recovery move in Moonlight, I still had trouble justifying its use until I found an event Pokemon that sees little usage in OU: Eruption Heatran. "Why does Eruption Heatran see such low usage?" I asked myself. Then, I realized that Eruption Heatran only comes with a Quiet nature, something that really hurt its viability. It was at that moment that I also realized that Cresselia got Trick Room, so with a small adjustment of IVs and the forgoing of Toxic or Lunar Dance on Cresselia, I had myself the perfect support unit for the nuke on legs. Now, I chose Eruption Heatran over any other sweeper because nobody expects it, and to be quite frank, it's fun seeing people switch in their Terrakion, Garchomp, and Keldeo, only to be OHKOed by an Eruption they couldn't have seen coming. I've also managed to 2HKO Blissey and Eviolite Chansey with Heatran (although managing to do so to the latter requires SR support). This ability to just nuke everything makes Heatran a near perfect wall-breaker in my eyes.

    This paragraph contains flavor topics, success reports, and general ranting, so this can be skipped if one is interested just in the team. Unlike most of my recent RMTs, this team has no ladder peaks, despite me getting several alts past the 1700 ACRE marker, mainly because I'm too impatient to sit and attempt to barrel through the ladder with this team. My most recent semi-serious (read: not serious at all) ladder alt was superliminal, which I believe I got to somewhere in the mid-1800s undefeated before I got bored with the people I was facing, since most of them used Kidogo's (Baton) Passport to Victory or other variants painfully similar to it, which is the battling equivalent to begging for a loss against this team (no offense intended, Kidogo). Anyways, if that isn't impressive enough for you, don't look away just yet, for this team (well, the Tangrowth and Sawsbuck variants, that is) has been extremely successful in both ladder play and in tournament matches. Most notably, it 4-0ed McMeghan in Round 1 of the Pound-for-Pound tour, and beat Pedrock in R3 of that same tour. With regard to the somewhat odd name of this team, the name actually came up from a portion of the lyrics in "Crush," a track by Pendulum, once again. I came across that section, thought it would be a good name, and just stuck with it. No fancy names for my team members are present this time. Also, thanks to Team Preview, this team looks like a crappy sun stall team, which causes my opponents to lower their guard, thinking that they'll just be facing a new player down. While the psychological effect is certainly unintended, it is immensely helpful. Haha.
    [​IMG]
    [a]1[/a]I.[​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]Okay. I posted this core in the OU cores thread, but I think this needs a little bit of explanation as to why I'd even use it in the first place. First off, I think this is fairly self-evident in my RMTs, but I always try to deviate from the bog standard when I build teams. This is because I feel that adhering to the standards restricts me both in team building and in battling. The battles become formulaic and team match-up based rather than skill-based, and eventually, I just get bored because everyone knows the ins and outs of these standard teams. It's also fun to see my opponent let out a quick WTF in the battle chat and ragequit upon encountering something relatively obscure. In addition, I like power, and Eruption SpecsTran is one of the strongest specially-based Pokemon, making more renowned behemoths such as Sheer Force Landorus, Latios, and Keldeo pale in comparison.[/BOX]​
    [a]2[/a]II.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]Given the two members of this core, I think that the inclusion of Drought support was a given, and since Groudon is locked in the Uber tier, the only option left for this team to remain legal in OU was Ninetales. This kitsune's Drought support elevates Heatran's power level to that of a supernova, and gives Cresselia a durability comparable to that of the stars. In addition, Drought also gives Cresselia a pseudo-resistance to Water-type moves while reducing Heatran's water phobia.[/BOX]​
    [a]3[/a]III.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]If I was going to use the sun, I might as well include a Chlorophyll sweeper to abuse the speed boosts granted by the sun. Venusaur was naturally the first pick for my Chlorophyll sweeper, thanks to its typing, which granted it a resistance to Mach Punch as well as the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, and respectable bulk. Also, Venusaur is quite fast under the sun, outpacing Scarf Latios, +2 Cloyster, Scarf Swords of Justice / Infernape, ScarfChomp, and ScarfMence. Basically, Venusaur outspeeds a large chunk of OU.[/BOX]​
    [a]4[/a]IV.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]Well, this is where I started taking ideas from others. I rated Rising Dominance, a sun offense team made by ShellShocker, and I noticed his use of Wobbuffet, which intrigued me. Since I was in an adventurous theorymonning phase, I decided to use Wobbuffet and see how it performed as a trapper compared to Dugtrio and Gothitelle, two other trappers I dabbled with in the past.[/BOX]​
    [a]5[/a]V.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]At this point, I needed a Stealth Rock setter and spinner, if only to preserve Ninetales's health throughout the battle and maximize the power behind Heatran's Eruption. Forretress provided all of that, while bringing forth a beneficial Bug / Steel typing, which helps the team take on dragons more efficiently. In addition, Volt Switch also allows Forretress to act as an effective defensive pivot, getting my more frail offensive Pokemon in safely. For worst-case scenarios, it works as a status absorber.[/BOX]​
    [a]6[/a]VI.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]Well, I took the team out for a spin, and it was a blast to use. Nobody expected what it had to bring, and it caught many people on the ladder off-guard. However, Venusaur ended up being the least valuable member of the team. It couldn't sweep effectively, and it couldn't beat Chandelure, a surprising threat to the team. Latias also turned out to be a slight problem, so I decided to swap out Venusaur for another Chlorophyll sweeper. I then decided to take my search to the NU tier, where underrated threats like Stoutland ran around. I then found what I was looking for in the form of Shiftry, the tengu-esque Grass / Dark-type that resided in the shadows of NU. I picked it up, using a mixed offensive set, and I simply found it to be better than Venusaur, despite being a bit slower than expected. Besides, Cresselia covered most of what Venusaur's enhanced Speed covered.[/BOX]​
    [a]7[/a]VII.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]As time progressed, Shifty's frailty and added vulnerability to Bug-type moves ended up crippling the team more than anything else. It was then that I decided to try out something new. I didn't want to use Venusaur again, and I didn't want to use Lilligant, despite having tremendous success with it in the past, since its lack of coverage would hinder the team more than assist it at this point in the game. I then saw Tangrowth, a Pokemon I knew Katakiri and a couple others have used to modest success. Needless to say, what Tangrowth had that won my heart over was its incredible mixed stats as well as pretty impressive physical defenses, even without investment. Also, MOJONBO RULES HERE (if you didn't understand that joke, that's because you probablt don't spend as much time as I do in Thread Cryonics).[/BOX]​
    [a]8[/a]VIII.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [BOX]This team did extremely well on the ladder, but it had a glaring weakness to Latias and Hydreigon. Tangrowth, despite its stellar mixed attacking stats, did not help at all against the dreadful draconian duo. This revelation almost brought me to the point of shelving this team again, until I decided to use Sawsbuck. Previously, I attempted to use it as a sweeper, but then I decided to use it as a utility piece that kept my worries in check. This pleased me, and now Sawsbuck has replaced Tangrowth as this team's Chlorophyll abuser.[/BOX]​
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [a]supernova[/a][​IMG]

    H E A T R A N__@__C H O I C E__S P E C S__|__F L A S H__F I R E__* * *__
    Q U I E T__|__2 5 2__S P A__/__4__S P D__/__2 5 2__S P E__|__2__A T K__/__3 0__D E F
    E R U P T I O N__|__E A R T H__P O W E R__|__H I D D E N__P O W E R__|__F L A M T H R O W E R

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?

      I don't like basing my teams around standard movesets. These movesets demand the same old teammates, and are countered by the same old counters. Then, you have complaints from people whose usernames I won't mention that the OU metagame is stale, and that there's no creativity abound. This combination of grievances drives me constantly to build teams based around underrated Pokemon and / or movesets. The underrated moveset this team was based around is Eruption SpecsTran, which IMO is the sun-based Kyogre equivalent in OU. Hailing from an event in Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs, the playerbase of DPP OU cried out in joy and dread when the news of Eruption Heatran reached their computer monitors, only to learn that Eruption Heatran was bound to a Quiet nature, changing those cries of joy and dread to mere sighs of disappointment. This has been the fate of Eruption Heatran, neglected for slightly weaker, yet more reliable threats, such as Suicune, Shaymin, Flygon, and non-Eruption Heatran. The advent of Pokemon Black and White didn't bother to change that, and neither did its sequels. However, while they didn't help Eruption Heatran gain ground, they created a metagame more conducive to its shenanigans, thanks to the addition of Drought to standard OU. This enhances Eruption's power quite a bit, giving the neglected event move a new lease on life. Anyways, with all that pressed against my head, how could I say no to Eruption Heatran?

      So, now that I had the Pokemon I wanted to base a team around, it was all a matter of choosing the appropriate set for it. Eruption's mechanics eliminated the possibility of running a defensive set or Substitute, and the Quiet nature eliminated the possibility of running a Scarf set since Quiet Heatran only hits 340 Speed after the Scarf boost. Eruption tends to force hit-and-run scenarios upon the user, so I could safely erase the possibility of using an item other than Choice Specs. Besides, it's not as though I'll be spamming much else for most of the battle. Eruption was chosen over Overheat and Fire Blast by virtue of it being stronger and more accurate than the other two options. It was also chosen since it makes switching into Heatran nearly impossible unless you have a weather changer and a fully dedicated special wall that isn't Jirachi. A series of relevant calcs can be seen below. Earth Power lets Heatran screw over opposing Heatran, Chandelure, and Tyranitar, and Hidden Power Ice does the same for dragons, Gliscor, and Landorus-T. While it may seem counterproductive to use two STAB moves on the same moveset, Surf Flamethrower is used as a secondary STAB option when Kyogre Heatran has less than 63.3% of its health remaining. The EVs maximize the miniscule amount of Speed Heatran can muster with the forced Quiet nature, allowing it to outpace many common fixtures of stall, such as Jellicent, Hippowdon, and the blobs, without a problem, and the IVs maximze Hidden Power's base power while minimizing confusion damage.


    • How to use this Pokemon:

      Heatran, despite it being the cornerstone of this team, operates on a very simple mentality: annihilate anything and everything. The only aspect of using Eruption SpecsTran that actually requires a more intensive level of thinking is getting it in while minimizing the damage taken, as any bit of damage decreases Eruption's explosive power. Against weatherless offense teams, getting Heatran in is all a matter of Encoring a simple set-up move (e.g. Landorus's Rock Polish, Gyarados's / Dragonite's Dragon Dance, Thundurus-T's Agility / Nasty Plot) with Wobbuffet, giving Heatran the free time it needs to get in without taking damage. Choice-locked / Encored Fire-type moves are even better, due to Flash Fire boosting Eruption's power even further through the roof. When facing down opposing sun teams with either a Heatran or Dugtrio, I'll play much more conservatively than usual since losing Heatran is the first step to a loss against opposing sun. Ironically enough, I play Heatran much more recklessly against rain and sand teams, since they usually lack a trapper that can give Heatran worries. In addition, even without the weather advantage, Heatran still hits incredibly hard with its coverage moves, making it no less of a threat than when the sun is up. This reckless style of play quickly softens the opponent's team to the point where Sawsbuck can close up shop on them without a hitch. Stall teams pose even less of a challenge for Heatran to face, since they don't hit as hard as their offensive counterparts and are Encore fodder for Wobbuffet, which helps Heatran power through their defenses with a Specs and weather-boosted Eruption. Of course, when Heatran is weakened to the point that Eruption is rendered unusable, I'll start spamming Flamethrower and its coverage moves. Overall, Heatran is this team's cornerstone by virtue of its wallbreaking prowess and incredible resistances, and a team member that will absolutely not be replaced.

    • Considered Changes:

      • None at the moment.
    [/BOX]

    [a]crescendoll[/a][​IMG]

    C R E S S E L I A__@__L E F T O V E R S__|__L E V I T A T E__* * *__
    B O L D__|__2 4 8__H P__/__2 2 8__D E F__/__3 2__S P A__|__2__A T K__/__3 0__S P A__/__3 0__S P E
    C H A R G E__B E A M__|__H I D D E N__P O W E R__|__I C E__B E A M__|__M O O N L I G H T

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?
    • How to use this Pokemon:
    • Considered Changes:

      • More Special Attack EVs.

        I actually lost a battle on the ladder because Cresselia couldn't OHKO a Gliscor with Ice Beam after SR damage. This change will give Cresselia more bite at the cost of a good portion of its bulk, so that's why I'm heavily contesting it.
    [/BOX]

    [a]kyuubi[/a][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?

      Sun is the lifestream of this team. It substantially increases Heatran's power, Sawsbuck's speed, and Cresselia's durability. In addition, the sun keeps powerful Water-types such as Keldeo from ripping through my team in a heartbeat. However, the only options I had that would keep me legal in OU were the use of multiple Sunny Day users or Ninetales, which had access to Groudon's Drought, which gave the team eternal sun. Of course the former option is not viable in OU, so I had to go with Ninetales, which admittedly is a sack of crap. When I use Ninetales, I always wonder what mentality Game Freak was under when they decided to give Drought to this kitsune and not something better, like say, Registeel or Arcanine. Anyways, with that tirade aside, I ended up having to decide on a set for it. I knew that I simply wouldn't succeed in using an offensive set, which actually did work in BW1, so I ended up going with a defensive moveset. I modified the EVs to maximize Ninetales's special bulk while retaining enough speed to outpace even the fastest of non-Scarfed Breloom and Politoed, and thanks to my sense of adventure, decided to equip an Eject Button onto Ninetales after reading Shellshocker's Rising Dominance (link can be found in Team Assembly). Normally, I'd have equipped Leftovers, but the nature of this team favors the use of the Eject Button, since it makes weather wars nearly impossible to lose with this team if I play correctly. This little change ended up making my battles quite easier, especially since nobody expects it.

    • How to use this Pokemon:

      First off, how Ninetales is used will depend on the type of team being faced down. Against weatherless, sun, and hail teams, Ninetales will act as the team's lead. This helps capture and retain the weather advantage, casting immediate pressure against the opponent. The eternal sun usually means that these teams will be playing behind the eight ball, thanks to the speed boost given to Sawsbuck, power boost to Heatran, and longevity boost to Cresselia. As I battle these teams, I'll usually attempt to keep Ninetales alive so it can act as a defensive pivot, allowing the frailer, more offensive elements of this team to switch in and start devastating the team more easily. This helps account for any weather-changing moves my opponent may have on his / her team members. In addition, thanks to Ninetales's ineptitude for offense and aptitude for defense, it serves as my sleep fodder against those types of teams, especially since Ninetales can usually fulfill its role as a sun bringer without ever having to attack. However, near the end of the battle against these types of teams, I'm perfectly willing to sack Ninetales so another teammate (usually Tangrowth) can come in and seal the deal against the opponent.

      When fighting rain, Ninetales is played relatively conservatively. Early on, a teammate (usually Forretress) will be used to deduce the set the opposing Politoed is running. If Politoed is running an offensive set with Hydro Pump, I won't hesitate to switch my Ninetales into the incoming Hydro Pump [relevant calcs: 252 SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 224+ SpD Ninetales in sun: 110-132 (33.23 - 39.87%) -- 22.17% chance to 3HKO; 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 224+ SpD Ninetales in sun: 186-218 (56.19 - 65.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO]. This allows Ninetales to activate its Eject Button and move along to Wobbuffet, which will then proceed to kill off Politoed with Mirror Coat, guaranteeing that the sun will be up for the rest of the battle. Defensive variants of Politoed have to contend with Sawsbuck's STAB Horn Leech and Wobbuffet's Encore; the former is a key weapon in laying the pressure on Politoed thanks to its lack of reliale recovery, and the latter a massive annoyance since it gives my other team members more opportunities to come in and wreak havoc. Either way, I win the weather war against rain, usually allowing Sawsbuck to run through those teams. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are covered mostly by Ninetales's teammates, and the procedures used against them will be elucidated upon later. Overall, Ninetales is one of the most important support units for this team. I absolutely will not replace it unless Groudon somehow drops to OU or a better Pokemon gets access to Drought.


    • Considered Changes:

      • Sunny Day ====» Protect / Hidden Power [Rock]

        Protect lets me scout Choiced attackers and preserve my Eject Button (provided I haven't used it yet), and HP Rock hits Heatran for neutral damage, popping any potential Air Balloons it could be holding. I don't use Sunny Day too often, so one of these changes is completely plausible. Either way, both of these proposed changes benefits my team.

      • A small increase in Speed EVs.

        I like speed creeping several important members of OU, and right now, Bulky Gyarados is the main threat I want Ninetales to outpace. This does detract a bit from Ninetales's bulk, but I think that it will be worth it. Thoughts on this?
    [/BOX]

    [a]season[/a][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?

      The basic premise of using a sun offense team is that there will always be at least one member of your team that can utilize the speed boost given by Chlorophyll. To not abuse Chlorophyll would be to waste two team slots in an otherwise potent sun offense team. The simplicity of that premise therefore allows this slot quite a bit of flexibility. The first iteration of this team featured the archetypal (and not to mention the only OU) Chlorophyll sweeper: Venusaur. However, Venusaur soon proved to be a disappointment simply because it added a huge hole in my team that Latias and Chandelure could exploit. I shifted to Shiftry (added alliterative appeal anyone?) to help beat the two, but no luck was there, due to Shiftry's bad defenses and weaknesses. Tangrowth was my next choice for filling this team's niche as a Chlorophyll sweeper. While it indeed was an excellent Chlorophyll user, thanks in no small part to its impressive bulk and offensive potential, it left the team incredibly vulnerable to Hydreigon and Latias. Its speed was also not enough to keep pace with OU, burdening the rest of the team unnecessarily to take care of what Tangrowth could not. This naturally led to my next choice for this team's Chlorophyll sweeper: Sawsbuck. While I have used it in teams previous, I've always used it as a boosting sweeper. Despite that working in previous teams, it didn't exactly mesh with this team's goals, since having only three attacking moves meant that there would always be something that it would not be able to deal with. By eschewing Swords Dance, the problem of always missing a certain threat is averted. Besides, Sawsbuck's frailty usually prevents it from setting up effectively.

      Sawsbuck is a different kind of Chlorophyll sweeper than Tangrowth, and it shows by the moves and EV spread chosen. Horn Leech is Sawsbuck's primary attack, which for all intents and purposes is a physical Giga Drain that helps keep Sawsbuck healthy over the course of a battle, and Return is Sawsbuck's strongest non-recoil inducing STAB move. However, Sawsbuck's main draw for being on this team lies in its coverage moves. Nature Power, the first of these coverage moves, is a necessity because of Heatran and Chandelure, both of which can cause massive problems for the team if left unchecked. The mechanics behind Nature Power also assure the team that Zoroark and Toxicroak cannot revenge kill Sawsbuck with Sucker Punch. Megahorn, Sawsbuck's other coverage move, is a niche move I carry simply because it's guaranteed to OHKO Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, the three largest threats to this team. It also deals severe amounts of damage to opposing Grass- and Psychic-types, which is extremely handy. The EVs are the generic 252 / 252, maximizing Sawsbuck's Attack and Speed. Nothing special there.


    • How to use this Pokemon:

      Thanks to Chlorophyll, Sawsbuck is the fastest member of the team. This makes Sawsbuck the team's revenge killer and main sweeper. Since these two jobs are rather self-explanatory, I think explaining how Sawsbuck gets in is more important. Due to Sawsbuck's frailty, I cannot haphazardly switch it in on any moderately powerful Pokemon. Rather, I must exploit Forretress's Volt Switch or an opponent locked into a harmless move via Wobbuffet's Encore. I also make sure that the sun will be up by the time Sawsbuck first steps into the battlefield. This keeps Sawsbuck ahead of the game.

    • Considered Changes:

      • Return ====» Double-Edge

        Double-Edge is stronger, and it guarantees several OHKOs that Return does not. Any recoil induced by Double-Edge can also be healed off by Horn Leech, so that problem is mitigated somewhat. I'm still questioning it, as the recoil could lead to a dead Sawsbuck earlier than I would like.
    [/BOX]

    [a]countercoat[/a][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?
    • How to use this Pokemon:
    • Considered Changes:

      • None at the moment.
    [/BOX]

    [a]twirltwirltwirl[/a][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?
    • How to use this Pokemon:
    • Considered Changes:

      • None at the moment.
    [/BOX]​
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]
    [a]conclusion[/a][​IMG]

    Former team members can be seen in the hide tags below:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [BOX]
    • Why did I choose this Pokemon and moveset?

      This team slot is definitely the one that has shifted the most, but again, the purpose of this slot is to abuse the speed boost granted by Chlorophyll when the sun is active. Befitting this, I've shuffled from one Chlorophyll sweeper to another in my quest to improve my team. In the very first drafts of this team, I started with the quintessential Chlorophyll sweeper: Venusaur. Prior experience has shown me that Venusaur was a great Pokemon, but for some reason, it just didn't mesh with the rest of the team in the earlier stages. Venusaur wasn't strong enough to best Tyranitar and Hippowdon mano a mano without a boost, and to rub salt in the wounds, its mixed set wasn't strong enough without a boost. This led me to Shiftry, the next Chlorophyll sweeper I took up. Unlike Venusaur, Shiftry actually had stats nearly perfect for mixed sweeping and the moves with which it could abuse those stats. It could beat every other weather inducer out there, and it was fast and strong enough to outpace and OHKO the fastest Garchomp under the sun. However, Shiftry's notable lack of defenses and horrendous weaknesses quickly came to bite the team in the back, and afterwards, I was nearly ready to shelve this team as another failure. It was then that I discovered Tangrowth in Katakiri's Wolves of the Sea. It had nearly everything I wanted in my Chlorophyll sweeper. It had incredibly powerful STAB options in Power Whip and Leaf Storm, the ability to go mixed, physical, or special without a massive loss in strength thanks to its incredible combined attacking stats (100 Atk / 110 SpA), and respectable physical bulk for a sweeper (100 HP / 125 Def). While its pitiful base Speed and Special Defense (50 for both) are wanting, those inadequacies are thoroughly mitigated by Tangrowth's incredible strengths, making Tangrowth the best choice for this team's Chlorophyll sweeper for now.

      This moveset deviates quite a bit from the standard Tangrowth moveset, so some of my choices need a little bit of explaining. Power Whip is the obligatory STAB move, as it can OHKO every on-site variant of Politoed and Tyranitar after SR damage. All variants of Hippowdon are 2HKOed in the absolute worst case scenario, and Abomasnow, the one weather inducer Tangrowth cannot deal with, is beaten soundly by Ninetales and the rest of the team. Tangrowth's Hidden Power used to be Fire, but I changed it to Ice as I found that Heatran, Cresselia, and Ninetales alone brought enough Fire-type attacks to the table. Meanwhile, the burden of dragon slaying fell upon Heatran's, Forretress's, and Cresselia's shoulders, and there was an undue amount of pressure placed upon them to keep dragon spam teams from running through my team. It was also at this point that I realized I wanted a more reliable move that could keep Landorus-T down, so I changed Tangrowth's Hidden Power to Ice. Earthquake lets Tangrowth consistently best Heatran and Chandelure, two nuisances for the team. This move also assures me that Jirachi doesn't get a free switch-in against Tangrowth. Sleep Powder allows Tangrowth to pseudo-KO one opponent, thanks to BW's sleep mechanics, and is critical since this move, along with Earthquake, allows Tangrowth to best Air Balloon Heatran one on one. The EVs maximize Tangrowth's Attack and give it enough Speed to outpace the fastest Scarf Chandelure, which is the fastest opponent Tangrowth needs to outpace. Besides, it's not outpacing anything faster, even with the full 252 EVs in Speed. The 16 EVs left over were placed in Special Attack to somewhat power up HP Ice, and the IVs (obviously) give Tangrowth a base 70 Hidden Power Ice. I didn't go with the normal 30 Atk / 30 Def IV spread because I didn't want to compromise even one point of Tangrowth's respectable bulk and strength, and Speed isn't exactly Tangrowth's strong suit.


    • How to use this Pokemon:

      Tangrowth has two main uses for this team. Tangrowth's main job for the team is to serve as its primary revenge killer and late-game sweeper, and its secondary job is to help bring bulkier weather inducers down for the count, allowing Ninetales to keep the sun up more easily. Since the first job is fairly self-explanatory, I think I should go ahead and expand on what I typed up in Ninetales's HTUTP (How To Use This Pokemon) section. Against sand teams that use Hippowdon, Tangrowth will be chosen to lead against them, as a quick Sleep Powder is a pain for them to recover from, effectively KOing one member before they can even move. This is even better for me if their initial switch-in to Tangrowth happens to be Roserade, since Earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO against those variants who use Meru's EV spread (252 HP / 48 Def / 16 SpD / 192 Spe). If I miss the initial Sleep Powder, no problems, since I can just switch off to Ninetales, which can do its job as a sun setter even when asleep. From there, I can switch back to Tangrowth as they (usually) switch out to Hippowdon and start the cycle again. Tangrowth helps against Tyranitar by threatening a OHKO with Power Whip, keeping Ninetales away from it. Overall, Tangrowth is another important member of the team, but I'm not above replacing it with something else.

    • Considered Changes:

      • Earthquake ====» Nature Power

        Is it better to have more PP and the ability to revenge kill Toxicroak without being affected by Sucker Punch, or have an attack whose utility isn't affected by Taunt? That's the question.

      • [​IMG] ====» [​IMG]

        Just something I had in mind, since Victreebel can potentially hit harder than Tangrowth does, while running a set that's nearly exactly the same. It can also absorb Toxic Spikes, something this team would probably find extremely handy. The only thing stopping me from enacting this change is that Victreebel can't exactly hurt Heatran due to not having Nature Power and Earthquake in its arsenal.

      • [​IMG] ====» [​IMG]

        Faster, slightly weaker, but able to best Breloom and Conkeldurr one on one. Can do most of what Tangrowth already does.
    [/BOX]
  3. King John

    King John

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    I approve of this team. Might I suggest though that you consider Ferrothorn ? It's a great counter for Rain teams, plus it can add some recovery via Leech Seed.
  4. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,887
    Hey there. This is a very solid team so good job with that; but there are some things that can make it even better.

    First off, I suggest running Protect over Earth Power on Heatran. Earth Power isn't too useful on specially defensive Heatran, whereas Protect is almost a staple on it. It allows Heatran to scout moves, net an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, and also rack up damage with Toxic.

    Now, a major threat to your team would be a Bulk Up Conkeldurr. It can deal major damage to your team, especially since Skarmory can't beat it 1 on 1. Also, Excadrill could cause some problems seeing as how Skarmory can't do anything to it other than phaze it away, and Rotom-W can be hit extremely hard by a +2 Return. Opposing stall teams could also pose problems seeing as how they have rapid spinners and you do not, giving them a great advantage. I don't really think that you need Rotom-W, especially since Celebi and Latias are great rain counters in their own rights. Therefore, I suggest that you replace it with a Gliscor.

    Swords Dance Gliscor
    Show Hide
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP | 180 Def / 76 Speed
    Impish Nature
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Fang
    ~ Taunt
    ~ Swords Dance


    Swords Dance Gliscor is a force to be reckoned with against stall teams; if they lose their Quagsire, Tangrowth, etc. Gliscor can ravage through them quite easily. Taunt stops pokemon like Forretress from setting up entry hazards, and stops pokemon like Skarmory from phazing away Gliscor and ending it's rampage. Gliscor also fills the role of the secondary sand check that Rotom-W provided, as well as being able to destroy Conkeldurr and Excadrill.

    Again, solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
  5. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Hi,

    I feel that without a Rapid Spinner, the most staple members of your team who have no recovery (Terrakion and Heatran) fail to do their jobs efficiently throughout the whole match, especially versus another Stall team. What I can suggest to prevent stall from overrunning your team is adding a Rapid Spinner in the form of Tentacreul over Rotom-w. I would agree with ShakeItUp that Rotom-w is the most redundant team member, since it covers most of what the rest of your team does already. With Tentacreul, you will have extra insurance against Rain and to an extent, wall some physical sand sweepers. A moveset of Scald | HP Electric | Rapid Spin | Toxic Spikes will not only help out your stall, but allow you to hit Gyarados super effective, who is a potent threat to your team with its growing popularity and usage of the Sub + Bounce set.. The EVs are standard with a Bold nature, 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe. The disadvantage of doing this is that you become weaker to Sand sweepers, but I feel that the presence of Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin will be much more helpful to you in the long run, since Skarmory, Celebi and Terrakion handle most Sand teams very well, and a majority of sand teams also run ample EHs.

    With the popularity of Drag Mag teams make giving Skarmory a Shed Shell to evade Magnezone well worth the lack of Lefties, because a well timed Haxorus switch in when Skarmory is gone can lead to a full sweep. The changes I’ve made hopefully have helped, but if you find yourself becoming too weak to things like Excadrill, Terrakion or Landorus, CM Virizion is something to consider using over Celebi.

    Very well presented team, good luck!
  6. Harlot

    Harlot

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    You're pretty weak to Rapid Spinning Starmie. It can come in on something like Heatran, scare it out with the thought of Hydro Pump and spin away all your hard work. Also, it it has Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, it hits 5 out of your 6 pokes super effectively.
  7. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Just out of curiosity, how do you handle HP Ground Volcarona? He hits everything on your team for neutral damage and nothing can take 3 hits. It can come in on Terrakion's CB and set up 1-2 boosts.

    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Volcarona (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/136SpDef Levitate Rotom (+SpDef): 73% - 86% (222 - 262 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Volcarona (Neutral) Hidden Power (Ground) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Heatran (+SpDef): 108% - 128% (420 - 496 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    An easy solution to this is to use Roar over Earth Power and use an Air Balloon over Leftovers. Not only does it give you a failsafe to Volcarona, but it also gives it many more chances to switch in and set up Stealth Rocks. I also agree with the above suggestion in Gliscor, which would also help you bait the Fire Blast from Volcarona for a free switch in to Heatran.

    Gl!
  8. RhyssaFireheart

    RhyssaFireheart

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    249
    I keep looking at this team and I always see no flaws but Mixed latios can cause some problems but i think you already handle it very well.
  9. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene break the silence
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,220
    Thanks. Each of my team members plays a key role in the team, but I'll be looking to see where I can fit Ferrothorn in.

    Thanks.

    Thundurus isn't as big an issue as you claim it to be. Latias deals nicely with it, and I have Terrakion to revenge kill it. However, Landorus is a problem that Scarfed Rotom won't help against. I'll be replacing a team member soon to alleviate that problem. Thanks!

    Conkeldurr isn't that big of a problem. However, you do bring up some very good points for the use of Gliscor. I've had some success with it before, so I'll consider using Gliscor again. Thanks.

    Hey! Thanks for the rate! You definitely bring up some very good points. Opposing stall is a slight headache for me to deal with, but I ultimately would consider another Rapid Spinner, seeing that Tentacruel's presence on the team makes me more vulnerable to sand in general. I will use Shed Shell on Skarmory because I've been seeing more Magnezone after I posted this team. Virizion is something that I will consider. Thanks again!

    Starmie will be forced to take hazard damage upon switching in if it wants to spin, and I can threaten it with my Scarfed Terrakion's X-Scissor. Also, at full HP, Heatran can live through a LO Hydro Pump from Starmie. All of my team members bar Terrakion and Skarmory can live through one hit from Starmie and deal a modest blow back to it.

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran: 76.94% - 90.93%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    HP Ground Volcarona is a slight problem. I pray that it doesn't get more than one Quiver Dance, because it outspeeds my Terrakion and kills it. However, entry hazards do take their toll on it, and if Skarmory is at full HP, then I can pHaze it out. Should it be the last Pokemon, I'll bring in Terrakion and Stone Edge it to death.

    Mixed Latios is a non-existent threat in OU. The only Latios ever seen are either Specs variants or LO three attacks + Recover. Thanks for the compliment though!
  10. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,773
    Other stall teams look like a problem. Forretress / Ferrothorn / Skarmory get easy switch-ins against half your team to set up hazards, and the lack of a spin blocker means your hazards won't be staying for long. I think Celebi can be replaced since everything it does is done by Latias, but Lati counters Reuniclus and isn't (toxic) spikes weak. How about trying a Gengar? It fits in very well on this team for several reasons - it spin blocks, gives you one less member affected by spikes, and it significantly weakens Latias's counters, paving the path for her to sweep late-game. I recommend the classic SubSplit set from DPP - stall teams are very hard-pressed to beat it thanks to its unresisted coverage and immense power, especially with hazard support.

    Just something to consider, nice team!
  11. Penance

    Penance

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    257
    Every things Female that's good (lol Rivalry Haxorus can suck it down) Tentacruel is probably a better choice than Rotom-W. Edit: Espein can be a lulzy choice over the Celebi.
  12. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene break the silence
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,220
    [a]export[/a][​IMG]
    [SCROLL=15]Heatran (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Eruption
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flamethrower

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Charge Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight

    Ninetales (F) @ Eject Button
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 176 HP / 224 SDef / 108 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar

    Sawsbuck (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Horn Leech
    - Return
    - Nature Power
    - Megahorn

    Wobbuffet (F) @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 216 Def / 220 SDef / 72 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Encore
    - Destiny Bond

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    [/SCROLL]​

    [​IMG]
    [a]playstyle[/a][​IMG]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]Sand stall teams look like a challenge to face on paper, but in practice, it's just the opposite. Every critical member of a sand stall team (the best example being Aromaticity itself) cannot switch into Heatran without being 2HKOed by a combination of Eruption and SR, even when the sand is brewing.This reduces a battle against sand stall to opening opportunities for getting Heatran onto the field so it can spam Eruption with reckless abandon. Stoutland cannot damage Forretress, and Hippowdon is bait for Wobbuffet, which can Encore an Earthquake and Counter Hippowdon to death or Encore Stealth Rock and get Heatran in while taking a negligible amount of damage. Slack Off can be Encored for the same effect, and since Wobbuffet is faster than Hippowdon, I don't need to worry about Encoring a move I don't like.[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]Sand offense teams with Tyranitar bring more interesting battles to the table, since Wobbuffet cannot be used to trap it until I figure out the set its using. This leads to a greater emphasis on Sawsbuck and Forretress, who become nearly invaluable during the battle. The former is used to exert pressure on Tyranitar with the threat of a OHKO while the latter's defensive abilities are used to decipher the particular Tyranitar set my opponent is running. If I'm lucky, I can also get Ninetales to land a burn on Tyranitar, effectively neutering it for the rest of the battle. Once the Tyranitar set has been determined, I can then take the appropriate course of action. If my analysis reveals that the Tyranitar is Choiced, I'll try to get Tyranitar to use Superpower or Stone Edge. These are the two moves Wobbuffet can use to trap and kill Tyranitar without issues. From there, it's just a matter of getting the sun back up, crippling Stoutland beyond repair. Cresselia can wall any opposing Landorus and retaliate with a particularly vicious Ice Beam, and the rest of the team is soundly beaten by the duo of Heatran and Sawsbuck. KOing support variants of Tyranitar is usually just a waiting game until my opponent breaks from the pressure the three bring against it.[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    • [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] vs. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      • [BOX]info placeholder[/BOX]
    Large problems to this team are in this color.
    Situation-based threats and mild annoyances are in this color.
    Non-issues are in this color.

    GSC color theme ftw

    [a]offense[/a][​IMG]
    [​IMG] abomasnow: Abomasnow really isn't a problem for this team to deal with due to the many Fire-type attacks on the team. The only problem Abomasnow brings is the removal of Drought, and even then, that's not an issue since I can just switch Ninetales in again.
    • mixed attacker: Can't switch in on anything, can't hit hard enough, can't move fast enough. Get bent.
    • choice scarf: Faster, weaker version of the above set. Can actually threaten Sawsbuck, but it can't break Cresselia, which incinerates it with HP Fire, and Forretress (unless it packs HP Fire).
    [​IMG] aerodactyl: Quick SR makes this look like a threat on paper, but in practice, it really isn't an issue, since only one team member is weak to SR. Besides, it's super rare and only seen on weatherless teams, so I really don't have to worry about it.
    • lead: Lead with Forretress. Since Gyro Ball knocks Aerodactyl down to Focus Sash range, this forces Aerodactyl to either kill off Forretress with Fire Blast and lose the opportunity to set SR up, or die without doing much more than Taunting Forretress. If SR is placed on the field, I don't exactly have to worry, since it's mostly seen on weatherless offensive teams, which can't control the weather.
    [​IMG] alakazam: This fast, frail Psychic is more of an annoyance than anything else. Sawsbuck can revenge kill it, but it can cause quite a bit of damage if played well.
    • focus sash: The first step is to break the Sash. A weak attack from Forretress or Ninetales should suffice. From there, it's all a matter of keeping pressure up on it with Sawsbuck. In extreme cases, I'll use Wobbuffet to shut it down.
    [​IMG] azelf: Azelf indeed is an interesting Pokemon, since the sets themselves are annoyances in the absolute best-case scenario. The main thing that makes Azelf so irritating is trying to figure out the set it's running. Since it can play several different roles with nearly the same level of efficiency, I have to figure out the set it's running before I alter my team's game plan. Once I figure that out, it's easy to deal with Azelf.
    • lead: Much like Aerodactyl, this set is usually seen as a dedicated lead for weatherless teams. However, unlike Aerodactyl, Azelf lacks a Rock-type STAB with which it can threaten Ninetales. This means I can lead with Ninetales, break Azelf's Focus Sash with a weak Flamethrower, and send out Sawsbuck to finish the job once Azelf attacks Ninetales, forcing it out. If Azelf performs a preemptive strike on Ninetales, forcing it out before it can break Azelf's Focus Sash, then that just means it's open bait for Heatran to start spamming Eruption.
    • dual screens: A much easier opponent to face individually, but in turn, the team support it provides makes it much more annoying. My best bet is to lead with Ninetales and Roar it out at the first opportunity. If Azelf uses Taunt against Ninetales, then that means Sawsbuck has a free opportunity to switch in and OHKO with Megahorn, since Azelf will most likely set up Light Screen first, thanks to Heatran's presence and Ninetales's inclination for attacking on the special end of the spectrum.
    • nasty plot: No Focus Sash, no problems. At worst, Azelf will take out Ninetales, allowing Sawsbuck to revenge kill Azelf and possibly sweep the opponent's team.
    [​IMG] azumarill: Azumarill is a unique Pokemon, both in appearance and accomplishment. Under the rain, Azumarill can cause quite a bit of pressure, but in most other cases, I don't even have to worry, since I'll have the sun up.
    • choice band:
    [​IMG] breloom: Ah, Breloom. It really is an odd case, since it isn't a threat individually. However, when paired up with the proper support, Breloom becomes much more annoying. Careful play must be taken when Breloom is paired up with Tyranitar, since Tyranitar can compromise Cresselia's bulk, leaving it open to Breloom.
    • physical attacker:
    • swords dance:
    • subseed:
    • subpunch:
    [​IMG]celebi:
    • nastypass:
    • tinkerbell:
    • nasty plot sweeper:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] chandelure:
    • choice scarf:
    • substitute:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] cloyster: Do people even use this anymore? It used to be so deadly and so awesome. Ah well. Glory days can't last forever, right?
    • shell smash: Sawsbuck outpaces this thing, even after a boost, so I'm not lost in the speed department. Defensively, Forretress couldn't care less even if Cloyster has a boost, since Volt Switch deals heavy damage even if Cloyster's defenses have not dropped. Ninetales outpaces Cloyster by one point before the boost, so if Cloyster tries to set up on Ninetales, I can burn it and make Forretress and Cresselia even more impenetrable. The funny thing about Cloyster is that it used to be good in OU.
    [​IMG] cobalion:
    • mixed attacker:
    [​IMG] conkeldurr:
    • bulk up:
    • flame orb + 3 attacks:
    • subpunch:
    [​IMG] crobat:
    • stallbreaker:
    [​IMG] darmanitan:
    • choice scarf / band:
    • life orb:
    [​IMG] ditto:
    • identity thief:
    [​IMG] dragonite:
    • dragon dance:
    • choice band:
    • substitute + dragon dance:
    • multiscale shuffler:
    • rain mixed attacker:
    • (rain) tank:
    [​IMG] dugtrio:
    • focus sash:
    • choice band:
    [​IMG] empoleon:
    • subpetaya:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] espeon:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] feraligatr:
    • GATR TIME (swords dance):
    [​IMG] ferrothorn:
    • choice band:
    • curse:
    [​IMG] forretress:
    • custap lead:
    [​IMG] gastrodon:
    • special attacker:
    [​IMG] garchomp:
    • swords dance:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] gengar:
    • substitute + disable / pain split / 3 attacks:
    [​IMG] gorebyss:
    • smashpass:
    • shell smash sweeper:
    [​IMG] gothitelle:
    • choice scarf / specs:
    • non-choiced attacker:
    • calm mind:
    [​IMG] gyarados:
    • bulky dragon dance:
    • offensive dragon dance:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] haxorus:
    • swords dance:
    • choice band:
    • double dance:
    • dragon dance:
    [​IMG] heatran:
    • air balloon:
    • choice scarf:
    • substitute:
    • weather trapper:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] heracross:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    • all-out attacker:
    • substitute + 3 attacks:
    [​IMG] hydreigon:
    • mixed attacker:
    • substitute:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] infernape:
    • choice band:
    • mixed attacker:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] jellicent:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] jirachi:
    • substitute + calm mind:
    • wish + calm mind:
    • expert belt:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] jolteon:
    • special attacker:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] jumpluff:
    • acrobatics:
    [​IMG] kabutops:
    • swords dance:
    [​IMG] keldeo:
    • choice scarf:
    • choice specs:
    • all-out attacker:
    • calm mind:
    [​IMG] kingdra:
    • rain dance:
    • choice specs:
    • dragon dance:
    [​IMG] kyurem:
    • subroost:
    • choice:
    • special life orb:
    • mixed:
    [​IMG] kyurem-b:
    • substitute attacker:
    • choice scarf:
    • choice band:
    • substitute shuffler:
    • mixed:
    [​IMG] landorus:
    • special attacker:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] landorus-t:
    • offensive pivot:
    • swords dance / rock polish:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] latias:
    • life orb:
    • calm mind:
    [​IMG] latios:
    • offensive:
    • choice specs / scarf:
    • calm mind:
    • dual screens:
    [​IMG] lilligant:
    • quiver dance:
    • sun utilily:
    [​IMG] lucario:
    • swords dance:
    • agility:
    [​IMG] magneton:
    • choice scarf:
    • subcharge:
    [​IMG] magnezone:
    • substitute + 3 attacks:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] mamoswine:
    • physical attacker:
    • focus sash:
    [​IMG] meloetta:
    • relic mixed:
    • calm mind + 3 attacks:
    [​IMG] metagross:
    • stealth rock:
    • choice band:
    • agility:
    [​IMG] mew:
    • nasty plot:
    • stealth rock:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] mienshao:
    • all-out attacker:
    • choice:
    • substitute:
    [​IMG] moltres:
    • choice specs:
    • agility:
    [​IMG] ninetales:
    • special attacker:
    [​IMG] ninjask:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] omastar:
    • shell smash:
    [​IMG] politoed:
    • choice specs:
    • choice scarf:
    • special attacker:
    [​IMG] raikou:
    • calm mind:
    • choice specs:
    • all-out attacker:
    [​IMG] reuniclus:
    • offensive trick room:
    • calm mind:
    [​IMG] riolu:
    • pawns like dog:
    [​IMG] roserade:
    • offensive:
    [​IMG] rotom-c:
    • choice scarf:
    • choice specs:
    • offensive scout:
    [​IMG] rotom-h:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] rotom-w:
    • bulky attacker:
    • choice:
    [​IMG] salamence:
    • choice scarf:
    • dragon dance:
    • mixmence:
    [​IMG] sandslash:
    • swords dance:
    [​IMG] sawsbuck:
    • swords dance:
    [​IMG] scizor:
    • choice band:
    • swords dance:
    • trapper:
    • choice scarf:
    [​IMG] scrafty:
    • dragon dance:
    • bulk up:
    [​IMG] sharpedo:
    • speed boost (physical):
    • speed boost (mixed):
    [​IMG] shaymin:
    • bulky attacker:
    [​IMG] skarmory:
    • custap lead:
    [​IMG] smeargle:
    • hazard lead:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] slowking:
    • offensive trick room:
    • choice specs:
    [​IMG] snorlax:
    • choice band:
    [​IMG] staraptor:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    • life orb:
    [​IMG] starmie:
    • life orb:
    • choice specs / scarf:
    • rain dance spinner:
    [​IMG] stoutland:
    • choice band:
    [​IMG] suicune:
    • offensive calm mind:
    • crocune:
    • substitute + calm mind:
    [​IMG] swampert:
    • choice band:
    [​IMG] terrakion:
    • substitute + swords dance:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    • stealth rock:
    • double dance:
    [​IMG] thundurus-t:
    • agility:
    • expert belt:
    • choice scarf:
    • nasty plot:
    [​IMG] tornadus:
    • HURRICANE (choice specs):
    • prankster:
    • acrobatics:
    [​IMG] toxicroak:
    • swords dance:
    • bulk up:
    • subpunch:
    [​IMG] tyranitar:
    • choice band:
    • choice scarf:
    • lead:
    [​IMG] vaporeon:
    • hydration tank:
    [​IMG] venomoth:
    • baton pass:
    • quiver dance sweeper:
    [​IMG] venusaur:
    • growth sweeper:
    [​IMG] victini:
    • choice band / scarf:
    • trick room:
    [​IMG] victreebel:
    • growth sweeper:
    • all-out mixed attacker:
    • special attacker:
    [​IMG] virizion:
    • calm mind:
    • swords dance:
    [​IMG] volcarona:
    • offensive quiver dance:
    • bulky quiver dance:
    • chestoresto:
    [​IMG] weavile:
    • physical attacker:
    [​IMG] zapdos:
    • special attacker:
    [​IMG] zoroark:
    • all-out attacker:
    • choice specs:
    [a]defense[/a][​IMG]
    [​IMG] abomasnow:
    • subseed:
    [​IMG] amoonguss:
    • standard:
    [​IMG] blissey:
    • support:
    [​IMG] bronzong:
    • tank:
    [​IMG] celebi:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] chansey:
    • support:
    [​IMG] cloyster:
    • utility:
    [​IMG] cobalion:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] cresselia:
    • support:
    • calm mind:
    [​IMG] donphan:
    • rapid spin:
    [​IMG] empoleon:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] espeon:
    • dual screens:
    [​IMG] ferrothorn:
    • standard:
    [​IMG] forretress:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] gastrodon:
    • tank:
    [​IMG] gliscor:
    • substitute:
    • defensive:
    • swords dance:
    • subpass:
    [​IMG] gyarados:
    • bulky support:
    • restalk:
    [​IMG] heatran:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] hippowdon:
    • mixed wall:
    • physical wall:
    [​IMG] jellicent:
    • utility counter:
    • special wall:
    [​IMG] jirachi:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] latias:
    • support:
    [​IMG] mew:
    • support:
    [​IMG] nidoqueen:
    • support:
    [​IMG] ninetales:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] politoed:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] porygon2:
    • defensive duck:
    • trick room:
    [​IMG] quagsire:
    • physically defensive:
    [​IMG] roserade:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] rotom-c:
    • support:
    [​IMG] rotom-h:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] rotom-w:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] sableye:
    • prankster:
    [​IMG] skarmory:
    • physically defensive:
    • specially defensive:
    [​IMG] slowbro:
    • physical tank:
    [​IMG] slowking:
    • tank:
    [​IMG] starmie:
    • defensive rapid spin:
    [​IMG] tangrowth:
    • defensive:
    [​IMG] tentacruel:
    • support:
    [​IMG] tyranitar:
    • support:
    [​IMG] vaporeon:
    • hydration wall:
    • wish support:
    • baton pass:
    [​IMG] venusaur:
    • subseed:
    [​IMG] wobbuffet:
    • oh no, it's wobbuffet! (bulky):
    • speedy:
    [​IMG] xatu:
    • totem pole (standard):
    [​IMG] zapdos:
    • subroost:
    • physically defensive:

    Because I love you all, the format for the individual Pokemon threat lists (sans team-specific text and images) can be found here.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)