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Shoot! I am having problems with my team.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Alfalfa, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    638
    Despite my permanent ban from PS (I blame Rory for suggesting that I go for an appeal), I could still use help fixing up my standard OU team. I could just use PO or another tactic to play OU. Can someone lend me a hand and give me a rate please?

    [​IMG]
    Nurse Joy's Best Friend (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 196 HP / 60 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Heal Bell
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss
    - Thunder Wave

    Mmmm... Blissey. This set is actually designed to utilize both Heal Bell and Wish. I have tried this set with Chansey, and the lack of Leftovers has actually made Blissey the better user of this set. This specific spread gives Blissey exactly 700 HP. 252 EVs are invested in Defense because 10 base defense is a curse for Blissey. The remainder of the EVs are invested in special bulk so she can wall a few things. Heal Bell is an absolute must, and is almost always on my balanced and stall teams. Wish was chosen over Softboiled because it really supplements Forretress and Darmanitan well. Seismic Toss deals consistent damage to everything not immune to it. In this last slot, some people might recommend Protect so I can get the Wish recovery safely. However, I have found Thunder Wave more useful, as my offensive pokemon can use it to take down paralyzed foes, such as Gyarados and whatnot. Blissey is generally a #1 choice for me due to her ability to screw around with people. She wins me games. Several games.

    [​IMG]
    Spikes Tornado (Forretress) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball

    I have found Forretress to be my Rapid Spinner in OU. The combination of Blissey + Forretress is a pretty solid core in my opinion. Rapid Spin is there because I hate having to deal with Stealth Rocks, 3 layers of Spikes, and 2 layers of Toxic Spikes. So I would like them removed. Stealth Rock is something Game Freak should nerf in the transition to Generation 6 because it is so ridiculously broken, so I am abusing it while I can. Spikes is the third move here because it does a great job with Stealth Rock in wearing down the opponent. Gyro Ball is a nasty surprise to enemy Gengar, who will try to defend his entry hazards. It also hurts Espeon, who will try to pull a fast onen and bounce back Rocks and Spikes. In my opinion, this Spinning metal bug is the best Rapid Spinner in OU.

    [​IMG]
    Nightmare (Gengar) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt / Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire
    - Trick

    Shoot! There is a problem here. If I go Jellicent, I lose some very much needed Speed, and a method of handling Technician Breloom. However, if I go Gengar, I lose very much needed resists to Water and Fire types. And I am not leaving without a Ghost type, because the immunities a Ghost type offers is too good to pass up. asjkflewejiwl42! I prefer the Choice Scarf set because Gengar's Substitutes get destroyed easily. Shadow Ball is STAB. Focus Blast rounds off the coverage. The third slot is a bit tricky: Thunderbolt roasts Cloyster, #1 asshole in OU. On the other hand, Sludge Bomb mauls Breloom, and HP Fire roasts a predicted Scizor switch-in (I prefer Thunderbolt because I can just use Trick on Breloom, and Cloyster might try to get to +4). Trick is great for ruining a bunch of pokemon in the tier. Techniloom, get locked into Swords Dance! Ferrothorn, get locked into Gyro Ball (especially nasty with the Choice Scarf)!

    On the other hand, Jellicent offers not only the Ghost typing, but offers resistances to Water and Fire type moves, which is great support against rain teams. The problem with Jellicent? I cannot find a set that fits for this team. It is also quite slow.

    [​IMG]
    Atheist's Fake Proof (Mamoswine) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Mamoswine was UU early on in BW (http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/gligar, read the additional comments for the Baton Pass set)? What the hell was Smogon thinking? Anyways, I am in a pickle on this guy. I love his typing - Ground offers wonderful Electric immunity, while Ice allows Mamoswine to scare off Dragons and the ever so annoying Therian Genies. Ice Shard - how else will I destroy those flying pains? Earthquake - secondary STAB, complemented by Stone Edge, which might even be needed. Mamoswine is outsped by Volcarona to begin with. Superpower = I HATE YOU FERROTHORN d*****! Yes, I want to keep Superpower.

    What is the problem here? Well, the inability to switch moves is a pain, and Life Orb's recoil is a bit annoying, though I could learn to deal with it (though I am banned from PS - I blame Rory and GSage - so I cannot learn to deal with it as well as I could!). So yeah. I would like to keep Mamoswine due to his typing and sheer unboosted offense, but I need a good solution to my special attacking issue.

    [​IMG]
    Forest Pixie (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Celebi is a filler - she is a special attacker, and provides a water resist so I can handle rain better. If you recommend a replacement, but does not have those two qualities, I will just reject the offer. Just to let you know, those 4 EVs in Defense ensure that Genesect gets a Special Attack boost so his U-Turn is less likely to kill this pixie (I wish people would just use Techno Blast so I can outrun Genesect and kill him with HP Fire). Nasty Plot is a bit difficult to find an oppurtunity to use, but it makes Celebi's power sick. Giga Drain heals off Life Orb recoil, and is STAB; pretty simple. Earth Power = Bye bye Heatran. HP Fire is used to punch Ferrothorn and other Grass types in the face - I hate those guys!

    So, is Celebi a key pokemon to this team? Not really; its two qualities are the sole reason behind it. Nasty Plot has been hard to set up, and I generally do not want most of my offensive core using Choice items. I do not mind replacing Celebi, but the replacement needs the two qualities mentioned in the beginning of this paragraph.

    [​IMG]
    Imploded Test Monkey (Darmanitan) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Flare Blitz
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    Heatran used to be here, but I found his power underwhelming, so I tried Infernape. Infernape had troubles setting up Swords Dance, which led to this lab monkey. I really wanted a Fire type so I could combat Sun teams, so I looked around to see what Fire types were viable in the metagame, and Darmanitan got picked. Despite those low defenses, that HP stat is pretty good, so I do not have to worry about him being incredibly difficult to use and therefore unreliable. He is a physical attacker that is immune to burns - exactly why I wish Charizard would get Magic Guard so he can destroy everything in UU with Swords Dance + Flare Blitz! Anyways, Flare Blitz, despite that recoil, is a nuke in sun. It also terrifies Steel types (come here, Arceus-Steel!). Rock Slide is also boosted by Sheer Force, and is a great move on the angry monkey in general. Since Darmanitan is faster than Tyranitar, Superpower generally beats the tar (bad pun detected!) out of the Rock-Dark type pokemon. U-Turn allows Darmanitan to scout switches, because he is going to cause them to begin with. I actually feel quite comfortable with Darmanitan, as he hits hard without needing a set-up, which is great. I am not against setting up, it is just that I have problems finding one that works on my team. Darmanitan also appreciates the support Blissey and Forretress have to offer, which makes him a candidate for keeping.


    Main problems:
    *Unstable offensive core
    **Special attacking slots (I want one Ghost type, and at least one of them a water type so they can combat rain teams well)
    **I have not tested LO Mamoswine, as I got perma-banned before I could even try it.
    *Rain teams (which is why I want a water-type special attacker)
    *Great Sage (though I already know a solution to this - it will just take time)

    Importable (open)

    Nurse Joy's Best Friend (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 196 HP / 60 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Heal Bell
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss
    - Thunder Wave

    Spikes Tornado (Forretress) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball

    Nightmare (Gengar) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick

    Atheist's Fake Proof (Mamoswine) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Forest Pixie (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Imploded Test Monkey (Darmanitan) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Flare Blitz
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
  2. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    249
    Hey there, nice team!

    I can see you have some trouble with Rain Offense. Tornadus-T, Genesect, Gyarados and buddy have a fun time on your team. Special Defensive Rotom-W can do wonders for your team. Rotom-W is a has a Water resistance, a recovery move and a momentum grab move, which seems very important for your team.

    Further, I don't like Forretress. I find Ferrothorn always a better poke. Still Spikes and Stealth Rock, Water resistance, more recovery. And Power Whip can be very annoying for opposing Rain teams, while still capable of hitting sand hard. Rapid
    Spin is a letdown though. Ferrothorn/Rotom-W/Gengar is a nice 'defensive' core too.

    About Gengar than. Choice Scarf Gengar is a bad set for Gengar. It wastes much potential.
    This is gonna sound very weird, but SubDisable Gengar will do wonders for your defensive core. Sub Disable Gengar stops Fighting types (which your team give much trouble) in their tracks. Disable Gengar is also very hard to stop once it got a sub on which can happen often with your offensive pressure.

    But than you need a scarfer. Choice Scarf Darmanitan is an excellent set. In that way Darmanitan can make up for his speed stat while still abusing 145 base attack STAB boosted 120 BP Flare Blitzes!

    In short:
    Blissey -> Rotom-W
    Forretress -> Ferrothorn
    Scarf Gengar -> SubDisable
    LO Darmanitan -> Scarf

    This may seem a lot of changes, but I'm just upgrading the potential of your team.
    Good luck with the team!

    Show Hide
    Sets
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed / Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
  3. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    638
    I prefer keeping Forretress > Ferrothorn because Forry has Rapid Spin. You do not like Forretress, I do not like Donphan. Forretress has actually been a pretty good pokemon for me.

    No, I am not going Rotom-W over Blissey, either. Blissey's healing capabilities gives my team a large amount of security. If you are going to recommend Rotom-W, at least recommend an offensive spread over Celebi, who I have had a bit of difficulty using (I think I might like Rotom-W's Choice set).

    I feel a bit iffy about SubDisable Gengar, but I will try it. The last time I used it, I had problems trying to figure out exactly how I was supposed to use it. Darmanitan, it depends if I will go Scarf Rotom-W. I am not seeking to directly go after rain offense, and I prefer to have my Heal Bell, Wish, and Rapid Spin support on all of my balanced and stall teams. Thanks for the rate.
  4. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Hey A dude, nice team!

    Your team really struggles with sun teams, you lack a fire resist outside of Darmanitan, who has very poor defenses, despite what his HP stat would indicate. The likes of Choice Band Victini (who is currently in the standard sun team archetype) can simply one-shot your entire team under the sun, it can just come in, OHKO something, switch out, rinse and repeat. To help mitigate this problem, I suggest running a Life Orb Latias over your current Celebi. Latias is a fire resist that won't be getting OHKOd by a Victini any time soon, it's also one of the best sun checks in the game, as it pretty much checks / counters 5/6 pokemon in the current standard sun archetype, the only mon it can't beat 1 on 1 is Genesect, who won't like switching in because it's OHKOd by Hidden Power [Fire]. Latias still maintains very similiar qualities to Celebi, most notably of which is that it's a water resist, and it's a special attacker, just like you specified, but Latias helps alot more against sun, and it's a far more reliable water resist due to the recovery move it carries. It also reduces the need for the resistances Jellicent could offer, and it's another check to the likes Techniloom. You might miss Celebi's ability to boost its Special Attack, but really, Nasty Plot Celebi is far too slow in this incredibly fast, offensive metagame to have any realistic chance of actually sweeping teams very often.

    Darmanitan is incredibly slow for this metagame and it simply dosen't have the bulk to make up for it, couple that with Life Orb recoil and Flare Blitz, you get a pokemon that can't really outspeed any sweeper, and it dies incredibly fast. To help remedy this situation I suggest running a Choice Scarf and an Adamant nature over your current Jolly Life Orb set. Darmanitan is simply phenominal with a Choice Scarf, it nullifies its sub-par speed, and allows it to outspeed every unboosted pokemon in OU, even without a Jolly nature, and it can just fire off Flare Blitz nukes, destroying teams. I know dual scarfers is kind of iffy, but Mamoswine isn't intended as a revenge killer, paired with all the hazards Forretress can lay down, Choice Scarf Darmanitan is actually a rather potent sweeper.

    Now you have 3 choiced pokemon, which isn't always the best idea considering how many set-up opporunities you give the opponent. And Stone Edge is simply not very good on your Mamoswine. Rock coverage is simply negligible in conjunction with the coverage provided by Ice, Ground and Fighting, it literally only really hits Gyrados (handled by Gengar and Latias) and Volcarona (dosen't really make too much of a difference considering Volcarona is faster than Mamoswine anyway, and you still have Blissey's Thunder Wave, Gengar's Trick etc.) Because of these reasons, I suggest running a Life Orb and Icicle Spear over your current Choice Banded Mamoswine with Stone Edge. Life Orb Mamoswine with Icicle Spear is a pretty good wallbreaker, it can get rid of those pesky Gliscor's, among others that can annoy Darmanitan. You may be wondering why I recommended Icicle Spear instead of Icicle Crash, well the main reason is the ability to break through Sub Protect Gliscor, which can pretty much stall out most of your team if you lose Gengar, Icicle Spear also helps with breaking through other Subsitute mons, such as SubPunch Breloom. The accuracy is always extremely nice too.

    Finally, I really don't think you should have Heal Bell on Blissey. You have 2 pokemon immune to poison, 3 pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes, 1 pokemon immune to burn, 1 pokemon immune to electric para-inducing moves such as Thunder Wave, 1 pokemon immune to normal para-inducing moves such as Body Slam, 1 pokemon with Natural Cure, and a spinner to get rid of Toxic Spikes. Overall, your team really isn't that vlunerable to status, and although mons like Latias hat status, and getting rid of status is always appreciated, only being able to gain 62.5% health for every turn, dramatically decreases Blissey's walling capabilities. I would just suggest you got rid of Thunder Wave if you really like Heal Bell, but you really need it for the likes of Volcarona. I really think you should consider running either Softboiled or Protect over Heal Bell. Blissey is really going to struggle with taking on all the special attackers it needs to take down when it can barely heal off the damage it takes from them, Heal Bell is cool and all, but I really think reliable recovery would be more beneficial.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)

    Life Orb Latias (open)
    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Recover
  5. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    638
    Doom, I like your rate because it is a bit more on track. However, I always feel a bit of a risk in removing Heal Bell. If I find that status is really screwing me over, I will suggest adding back Heal Bell. On Latias, I would prefer going full out 4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Speed to get out all of the power I can get. Also, 2 Choice Scarf users is a bit of a novelty; can you please tell me what set to switch to for Gengar?
  6. Littledave16

    Littledave16

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Latias these days want HP EVs thrown in so they can check all the weather teams crawling around. Without the bulk, she has a hard time switching into attacks and such.
  7. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Imo Latias really appreciates the extra bulk in this team, it checks both rain and sun much better with them, and considering it's your only reliable water resist / sun check and this is a more defensively orientated team, I would definitely keep the 72 HP EVs. In regards to changing Gengar's set, I explained earlier why it's alright to have 2 scarfers on this team: because Darmanitan is a sweeper not a revenge killer. When Darmanitan comes out it will almost always be coming in to force a switch, U-Turn out, then go to something that will force the pokemon just brought in to switch out again, racking up mass amounts of hazard damage. Or it will be coming in to spam Flare Blitz with the hope of sweeping / putting major holes in the opponents team. Darmanitan simply can't handle revenge killing by itself, it's just not fast enough and it can't cover the likes of Cloyster and many other pokemon that you need Gengar to have Gengar to revenge kill. Overall, I recommend you keep my suggestions the way they are until you've tested them out on PO. If there's any problems with my suggestions after testing then be sure to inform me then. Good Luck!

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