Should the various Rotom forms be considered as one Pokemon or not?

[X-Act]

Basically, this affects the determination of the OU list. If all Rotom forms are considered one Pokemon, then Rotom is OU. If not, then each form is not OU.

In my opinion, there are two different forms of Rotom that play differently: the original Rotom having 50/50/77/95/77/91 base stats, and the appliances Rotoms having 50/65/107/105/107/86 base stats. Since these two have different stats, then they should be treated separately, just like we treat the usages of Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and regular Deoxys separately in ubers. However, all the 5 appliances Rotom should be treated as one Pokemon. That's my opinion.

So, basically, our options are:

1) Treat all Rotom forms (including the original Rotom) as one Pokemon.
2) Treat the original Rotom as one Pokemon and the other Rotom forms as another Pokemon.
3) Treat each of the six Rotom forms (the original and 5 appliances) as different Pokemon.

As I said before, I would choose option 2).

 

[Hipmonlee]

They are one pokemon. It should be basically irellevant whether you count the little rotom or not, its uses arent going to have a big impact on its OU status.

Treating each of the 6 forms as different is definitely not an option.

Have a nice day.

 

[Earthworm]

I would also choose option 2 as it makes the most sense in my opinion.

 

[Mekkah]

As one could have guessed from my posts in the other thread about this, I would go for option 2 as well.

 

[X-Act]

They are one pokemon. It should be basically irellevant whether you count the little rotom or not, its uses arent going to have a big impact on its OU status.

That means that we should also count Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and regular Deoxys usage as one Pokemon in ubers?

And we should count both Shaymin and Shaymin-S usages as one Pokemon? And Giratina and Giratina-O.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

The appliances each have the same typing and base stats thus they are the same to me. One move isn't enough for me to differentiate them.

I agree with option 2.

 

[RBG]

Option 2

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I think option (2) is a real no-brainer here although if someone wants to disagree I'd be more than happy to argue as to why I think so.

 

[chaos]

That means that we should also count Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and regular Deoxys usage as one Pokemon in ubers?

And we should count both Shaymin and Shaymin-S usages as one Pokemon? And Giratina and Giratina-O.

These Pokemon do not have the same base stats...

 

[Mekkah]

How I see it:

Pretty much unarguable
These Pokemon have remarkable differences. I would call them less similiar than two different species.

Deoxys-D is clearly different from Deoxys-A, Deoxys-S and Deoxys-R.

Rotom is clearly different from the new Rotoms.

Skymin is clearly different from Shaymin.

Arguably different

Giratina/Origin Giratina
Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A/Deoxys-R

Pretty much the same

All Rotom forms

However, note that there may be some controversions if we review the old system. Looking at only base stats, we could argue the Lati twins as close, or more likely, Plusle and Minun. Unown forms are like Rotom forms (except they don't have exclusive moves...just the image is different, so bleh).

But perhaps we shouldn't get into that.

 

[Caelum]

Option #2 for reasons already stated several times.

 

[Syberia]

Option 2. As mentioned in the OU list thread, the only thing separating the Rotom forms is one move, which most people don't even use. IMO, that's more of an "illegal moveset" issue than a species issue.

The three Deoxys forms in ubers, as well as Shaymin/Skymin, have drastic differences that cause them to play totally differently, and thus should be counted separately. The same goes for Origin Giratina, though the difference is not as great.

The original Rotom should be counted separately from all other pokemon. It has a lower stat total and again plays differently because of this, and I see no need to kick it out of UU because five other pokemon that are unrelated to it by anything except their name got made OU.

 

[Colonel M]

I vote for option 2. One move barely makes a difference anyhow to state that they are "different" Pokemon.

 

[Bologo]

I vote for option 2 as well, since as people have been saying, the difference between them is only 1 move, and if people aren't using that 1 move, they'll just use whichever sprite they like the best, which skews the usages somewhat.

 

[Jibaku]

It was hard to choose between option one or two. Choosing option one is the simplest way to get out of it, as option two presents us with other problems like Deoxys-A and Deoxys-RS, or the three Wormadam forms and such. However, option two seems to be the most optimal one to pick now that's really because the Rotom forms and the original Rotom are so vastly different in stats (stat increase, which has never been done before on the same specie of Pokemon) that they should be counted as different Pokemon (well, all the Rotom appliances count as one obviously)

So yeah option two has my vote.

 

[X-Act]

To the people who quoted my post, I was answering Hipmonlee. I clearly stated that my choice is option #2.

 

[Hipmonlee]

That means that we should also count Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and regular Deoxys usage as one Pokemon in ubers?

And we should count both Shaymin and Shaymin-S usages as one Pokemon? And Giratina and Giratina-O.

Well if species clause worked properly then yeah I would agree to this.

Which actually brings up another point about adding rotoms together which I had forgotten, which is species clause doesnt work properly so if you add them up you will get 5 uses from the people who have Rotom themed teams.

Have a nice day.

 

[kd24]

option 2 although option 1 doesnt sound so bad. But yeah option 2

 

[Calciphoce]

The only thing that wasn't mentioned that I feel should be is the mindgames. No one is keeping a Steelix in on a heat rotom, a special defense oriented swampert in on a lawn mower rotom, heatran has to worry if washtom has hydro pump, etc. My point is, even if the multiple Rotom forms don't have their specific move, they play into the mindgames that you or your opponent might have that move.

That being said, I don't feel that reason is enough to justify their being separate pokemon. Option #2 gets my support.

 

[gorm]

choosing between them is basically choosing a moveset, which is not enough reason to consider a pokemon different from another!


i say take thier combined usages for sure, option 2 obviously

.. as far as using different sprites i 100% agree with calci, i think that is too big a change... can wejsut combine their usages? is it too inconvenient?

 

[Venom]

Option 2

 

[TAY]

Option 2 is the pretty clear choice here. The new forms are all incredibly similar, and often don't even use their unique attack.

Regarding what Hip said about species clause, the Rotoms should definitely not be allowed on the same team due to species clause if we count them as one for OU usages. Rotom should not be able to rack up multiple uses per battle from a single player. Whether they are allowed alongside the original Rotom is another issue though...

 

[Cynthia]

Option 2, Rotom has significant statistical differences from its new forms.

The forms shouldn't be allowed on the same team, but a form and the original Rotom are acceptable.

 

[X-Act]

To Hip, I agree about Species clause, but this topic is not about Species clause. I agree that only one Rotom form, only one Deoxys form, Shaymin form, Wormadam form, and Giratina form should be used per team.

Now, if Species clause is not implemented correctly, then I'll be the first one to promote that it is implemented correctly.

Assuming that species clause is implemented correctly, it doesn't necessarily mean that such Pokemon should have their usages totalled, unless they are basically the same Pokemon. The Deoxys forms, Wormadam forms, Giratina forms and Shaymin forms have enough differences in their stats/movepools as to be different. However, the appliance Rotoms are practically all the same Pokemon, and hence they should be treated as one... but only if Species clause is implemented correctly, i.e. only one Rotom is allowed per team.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Yes but species clause is relevant in this case because one team can have 5 rotoms in it (I have battled such a team). Which gives an unfair bias towards making Rotom OU.

I certainly dont think that the Rotom forms should be counted as different pokemon. As far as the function of these stats are concerned, really the only issue is going to be the possibility of little rotom being UU (land shaymin will never be UU, and useage of ubers only matters in terms of interest, and there should be detail in the stats anyway). I still dont think this should be allowed because of the whole OU lite thing, so for me, there is just no point in differentiating them.

Have a nice day.