Shrang's Thread of OU SCRUTINY!!

[shrang]

So yeah, here are my list of Pokemon that I'm supposed to tell you guys what to do, ha:

Azumarill
- Hasn't really changed much at all. Probably an SCMS edit of the new Pokemon (such as revenging Thundurus-T) should suffice.
- OU worthy? I think yes.
- Worth a revamp? No.

Cloyster
- This thing hasn't changed much either, although it's not a bad Landorus-T check. Could add that to his analysis, I guess.
- Look into an "Offensive Rapid Spin" set. +2 LO Hidden Power Grass from Modest Cloyster actually OHKOs standard Jellicent after SR and like 5% prior damage, which sounds pretty cool. While yes, I know a special Shell Smash set is probably as ass as it sounds, this set would be specifically dedicated to killing Spin-blockers and then spinning! Something like Shell Smash / Surf / Hidden Power Grass / Rapid Spin would do.
- OU worthy? It's OU, of course it needs an OU analysis.
- Worth a revamp? Doubt it. If the extra set goes up, it'll be find just getting the extra set without the revamp.

Deoxys-D
- I don't like the look of that Suicide Lead set. This will be retest, but I have no idea why are running so much offense on Deoxys-D, plus ridiculous crap like Fire Gem HP Fire. Please tell me that is as ridiculous as it sounds. I'm leaning towards removing it.
- Eh, I'm still not liking it at all, but I guess Modest and Life Orb is a decent compromise.
- Better EV spread is needed for the Toxic Staller, which needs significant speed investment to take on some threats.
- OU worthy? Of course.
- Revamp? Yes.

Escavalier
- Don't like this. Why are we even using this when we have Scizor (and soon, Genesect) running around?
- OU worthy? No, not worth it.
- Revamp? No.

Gengar
- Again, this hasn't changed much at all. SCMS update with mentions to the new Pokemon is probably enough, IMO.
- Get that Scarf set up, talk to TrollFreak about it.
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? No.

Hydreigon
- Lots of new move tutor moves. Superpower and Roost are the biggest ones. Pretty much all the sets that have Life Orb on them need Roost slashed, and every set apart from the Choice sets need to slash Superpower as well, IMO.
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? Yes.

Latias
- I love you for giving me this SDS.
- So yeah, since I'm already doing this, this shouldn't be much of a biggie. I'm going to do be doing pretty much what I put in the reservations thread below.
- In addition to Keldeo, I'd also put stuff like Thundurus-T counter and all that stuff as well.

Latias:
- I'm going to do this one, but just saying what I'm going to do:
- Standard CM set is going to be more offensive - Have a more offensive spread with Psyshock and Surf in the last slot. Latias is bulky enough without that much investment, and the lack of power (unable to OHKO Dragonite with Dragon Pulse after SR) sucks balls.
- Conversely, the defensive Calm Mind set will have the more defensive options on it, like Sub, Roar, Reflect, and all those kind of moves
- Merge LO Tank and Specs
- Update to reflect that Latias is probably the best Keldeo counter ever - ie You're going to be seeing Psyshock everywhere

- OU worthy? Of course.
- Revamp? Hell yes.

Medicham
- Haven't changed much either, but I do think Non-Choice should be retested. The Scarf set looks fine, but if Non-Choice isn't pulling its weight, it'll be removed. Okay, I'm keeping it.
- OU worthy? Yep.
- Revamp? No.

Politoed
- With most of the new threats being rain based, I'm pretty sure to say that Politoed needs a revamp to reflect this.
- Test a RestTalk set just because it's Politoed and you want him to stick around, but it's unlikely to be good.
- jc104: Play up Scarf.
- Have a look into a bulky Specs spread.
- NOTE: I want a very clear warning on the bulky set about using Perish Song when there is clearly a Dugtrio or Wobbuffet on the opposing team. The number of weather wars I have won simply because idiots just spam Perish Song, only to be met with Wobbuffet and fall into the grave that they dug themselves is ridiculous.
- OU worthy? Why am I even asking this?
- Revamp? Yes.

Salamence
- DD + Outrage + Moxie blah blah blah, I personally don't think it's a big deal, but I guess the DD set could be rewritten to reflect this.
- Scarf set become standard. I personally think it's the best set.
- +ve Speed natures to be the first slash on all sets not named Classic MixMence and Defensive.
- Look into a fast spread (252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe Timid) on Defensive Salamence to outspeed Lucario.
- I'm not digging the Moxie Lure set. I'm sorry AccidentalGreed, but I want a good explanation on why this is significantly different to the two mixed sets.
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? Yes.

Slowbro
- Mention Keldeo in there. While Slowbro is not a very good counter to Keldeo, it can still take a hit and take a crap on it with Psyshock if that means anything.
- Trick on Specs set is now possible with Regenerator.
- A few mentions of the new Pokemon is probably enough.
- Pocket: Remove CM
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? Probably not.

Tentacruel
- Acupressure Tentacruel gogogo
- Mention it being able to check Keldeos that aren't SubCM (Needs Toxic).
- Giga Drain is now a good option on the offensive set.
- Please read through to remove anything as dumb as "Cobalion counters Tentacruel". I don't want to have to do this kind of thing, guys!
- Checks and Counters need to be fixed.
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? Yes, it seems outdated.

Victini
- Hasn't changed much, although it did add Fire Punch and Trick to its repertoire, which could be used on Choice sets.
- My God, get rid of Zen Headbutt. It does nothing that V-Create and the other attacks can't.
- Remove Special Attacker and Support. I personally like the special set because of how cool Searing Shot is, but there's no denying it's just completely outclassed by all its other sets.
- OU worthy? Yes.
- Revamp? A small one would probably suffice.

 

[jc104]

A few things:

Deoxys-D: I'm not exactly a fan of the suicide lead set but it is a lot better with modest and LO. That way it still OHKOes Scizor and Psycho Boost becomes moderately powerful (~1.5x what it was before).

Medicham: I wrote this one, and I know Medicham is good. The issue is justifying it over Terrakion, which is really, really good. Notably, Tech Breloom is really common now, so that Mach Punch resistance as opposed to a weakness is really handy, where before it wasn't. Probably should add a mention of that. I actually prefer the non-choice set to scarf by the way. It's much harder for the opponent to exploit Hi Jump Kick, and the power and coverage is just phenomenal.

Politoed: I think you may want to play up scarf a bit more in the new metagame, as it can outrun and destroy the new genies.

 

[Jukain]

Deoxys-D: I have extensively used the suicide lead set. The thing is that everyone Taunts it and brings in their walls, expecting it to be useless to them, only for Ferrothorn to be 2HKOed by Hidden Power Fire and Scizor to be OHKOed. Fire Gem is by-and-large useless, so removing that would be fine, but the suicide lead set is viable with Modest and LO as jc104 alluded to.

Salamence: I have also extensively used the Moxie-base lure. I'm sure AG can and will explain it better, but its main strength is feigning the Choice Scarf set with the same moves and an Expert Belt. This allows it to accumulate Moxie boosts with the surprise factor of Expert Belt.

 

[Pocket]

Deo-D does not really need a re-vamp, although it's arguable that the suicide lead is better off with Modest & Life Orb. Yea, the Toxic-stalling set should have at least enough Speed to be faster than Rotom-W - it may not be able to afford to invest too much in Speed or else its bulk would suffer.

Slowbro's CM set could get sacked

Victini's Special & Support set could get sacked. Scarf > Physical Attacker, imo.

 

[doughboy]

Gengar

Maybe the sets could be condensed a little, though they all play differently.

More importantly, whatever happened to this gem? Scarf Gar is good in this meta with the decrease of Scizor and Ttar and the amount of huge offensive threats there are.

Tentacruel

I would mention that Toxic Spikes is important deterrent to Keldeo switchin's, just that you have to watch out early game.

The thing I really want to see is an update to Tentacruel's checks and counters section. I would never bring in Metagross in on a Tentacruel in fear for a burn. Ferrothorn also hates to come in on Tentacruel because of Scald burns. No mention of some key Natural Cure switchins such as Celebi and Starmie who could carry Giga Drain/Earth Power and Thunderbolt/Psyshock. No mention of Jellicent, a Pokemon who Tentacruel has an entire set spawned to beat it. No mention of Zam being an excellent check due to being immune from T-Spikes.

Lastly LOL Cobalion as a Tentacruel counter/check?

 

[EonX]

Some more things on Politoed as I've been playing around with it to find its most useful set in BW2. Currently used Scarf, Defensive, and 3 Attacks sets extensively in the BW2 metagame.

Scarf: So far, the best I've tried. Outspeeds Therian formes and has Hydro Pump / Ice Beam for them. Also can surprise a Starmie switch-in that's expecting to outspeed and Rapid Spin. H-Pump 2HKOs in the rain. I don't think Modest has any merit on this set anymore as Politoed needs Timid to outspeed the likes of Starmie, Alakazam, Dugtrio (if it doesn't care to think Scarf set) and Tornadus-T. Besides, you have Keldeo to abuse stronger, fast Hydro Pumps now.

Specs: Haven't tried it in BW2 yet, but I don't think the max Sp Attack / max Speed spread is useful anymore with Keldeo running around. Keldeo is much faster than Politoed and has a much stronger Hydro Pump and Fighting move. If Specs Toed stays, max HP / max Sp Attack Modest is probably the way to go to take advantage of Politoed's decent bulk and to try and keep it around longer in weather wars. Only set I haven't used in BW2, so take this info with a grain of salt.

Defensive: Still good, especially if you need Toed to hang around in weather wars. One of the few things that can take a neutral CB Outrage from Haxorus and live to tell the tale. (don't expect to take 2 though) However, Thundy-T and Torn-T can do severe damage to it. Rising usage of Latias in response to Keldeo and Techniloom makes Toxic an even better move for this set as a way to cripple her.

3 Attacks: I've actually quite liked this set and I honestly think it's better than bulky Specs due to the ability to switch moves. Perish Song really helps against a lot of sweepers and screws BP chains. Haven't tried Encore on this set in BW2 yet, but I guess it would be more useful if you have a strong setup sweeper like CM Keldeo and Agility Thundurus-T waiting in the wings.

 

[Pocket]

23:40 aldaron cant you just have the better mixmence (or the one more used) and use additional comments section to mention alternatives
23:40 Pocket ^
23:40 Pocket thank you, aldaron
23:40 aldaron the analyses should really work to be as concise as possible
23:40 kokoloko they play differently lol
23:40 ginganinja ^
23:40 aldaron tons of sets seems like promoting examples
23:40 Pocket mixed sweeper is a mixed sweeper
23:40 kokoloko they dont fill the same role
23:41 aldaron instead of promoting _how_ to make a set
23:41 aldaron that's what our analyses should focus on
23:41 aldaron how to make a set and fit it on your team
23:41 aldaron examples are just that, examples
23:42 Pocket i agree that we can't have every diff permutation of a similar concept on-site
23:42 kokoloko lol the sets dont even play similarly but okkkkk
23:42 ginganinja I agree with kokoloko
23:43 kokoloko i honestly dont care that much
23:43 aldaron well ok
23:43 aldaron i understand they play differently
23:43 aldaron i remember mence's different mixed sets in dpp
23:43 aldaron but in bw i dont see mixmence nearly as much as dpp, let alone multiple variations
23:44 aldaron is it necessary to show that different sets play differently?
23:44 aldaron for bw mixmence
23:44 *** PKGaming quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347])

That's basically my thoughts, but Aldaron explained it better - do we really need 2 MixMence sets?