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Shroomish (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Electrolyte, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    [​IMG]
    1-UP

    Quote from opponent:
    'McMarty: all i can say is shroomish is lame as fuck
    McMarty: I'm going to replace lileep with that little shit after this'

    proof that this is blarapproved (open)

    electrolyte hey uh
    electrolyte can you approve my reservation?
    electrolyte thnx
    blarajan it's approved i'm lazy
    blarajan i don't want to log on
    electrolyte oh ok
    electrolyte thanks man


    Primary QC checks: [2/2] [Elevator_Music, Blarajan]
    Secondary QC check: [1/1] [macle]
    GP checks: [2/2] [GatoDelFuego] [NixHex]

    CURRENT ISSUES:
    ~DONE

    [Overview]

    <p>Shroomish might just seem like another Grass-type, but it has many unique traits and abilities, allowing it to fulfill its own unique niche apart from that of the other Grass-types of the tier. In a metagame where almost every team needs a good answer to sand teams, Shroomish shines with its pure Grass typing, which allows it to wall most common sand sweepers. This gives it an advantage over its brethren Foongus and Lileep, which carry a secondary typing that makes both only neutral to Ground type attacks. Shroomish's typing also helps it tank Water- and Electric-type attacks, letting it handle Pokemon like Chinchou or Tirtouga with relative ease. Spore also makes Shroomish stand out, allowing it to shut down any opposing Pokemon and buy itself or its teammates time to set up. Poison Heal is another great asset, as it grants Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a quick way of recovery should it get poisoned. Shroomish has great balanced defenses and a moderate Special Attack stat, perfect for the role of a bulky tank for balanced teams. It has a plethora of great support moves such as Leech Seed, Toxic, or Stun Spore too. However, it still suffers from quite a few old counters. Pokemon with Taunt or Magic Bounce can thwart Shroomish's attempts of support and brush off its relatively weak attacks. Pokemon with Substitute and nice defenses can also wall Shroomish, as the Substitute prevents Shroomish's support moves from working. Despite all this, Shroomish still remains a top-tier sand counter in LC because of its great typing, defensive stats, and access to very rare and useful support moves, and all teams that want a sand counter should definitely consider Shroomish.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Eviolite
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Synthesis
    move 4: Toxic / Stun Spore
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Bold
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish's best set in LC lets it hold the spot as one of the best sand counters in the metagame. Its awesome resistances and balanced defenses when combined with an Eviolite let it sponge hits from common threats such as Drilbur, Tirtouga, Chinchou, and Hippopotas. With an Eviolite, it can shrug off two hits from +2 Adamant Drilbur's X-Scissor and KO back with Giga Drain, recovering off the lost HP in the process. It can also live a +2 Stone Edge from Shell Smash Tirtouga and OHKO back with Giga Drain or shut it down with Spore. Similarly, it can come in on Chinchou and Staryu and simply just sit and suck out their HP with Giga Drain as they fail to scratch Shroomish's bulky hide. Shroomish is a great tank because nearly anything that can't OHKO it can be shut down by Shroomish's Spore and then gradually KOed by Giga Drain. Using its decent Special Attack, Shroomish can quickly eliminate most of the opponents it commonly walls, as they are usually weak to Grass. Shroomish also has access to a great recovery move in Synthesis, which heals it and lets it switch in repeatedly to sponge attacks. With Toxic or Stun Spore, Shroomish can be used to cripple defensive Pokemon or offensive Pokemon respectively, depending on which you want Shroomish to handle. Toxic quickly wears down opponents that lack recovery, especially when used in conjunction with residual damage, while Stun Spore can be used to further cripple opponents after Sleep Cause has been activated.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish has quite a few other options it can use. Leech Seed is another great support move that can be used to stall the opponent as well as heal up Shroomish's HP. Hidden Power Fire is a nice way to beat opposing Grass- and Steel-types that give Shroomish trouble. If Shroomish does use Hidden Power Fire, it should have 40 EVs in Special Attack instead, as they are needed to bump Shroomish's Special Attack back up to 11. Both of Shroomish's abilities can be used to great effect. Poison Heal can be run to give Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a way to heal itself gradually should it switch in on an opponent's Toxic. However, Poison Heal relies on support from the opponent, making it a situational yet still useful ability. Effect Spore can be used to potentially cripple physical attackers that Shroomish commonly walls, and can even put another opponent to sleep. The given EVs maximize Shroomish's HP and Defense, letting it wall sand teams and other physically attacking pokemon with ease. The EVs are then split to balance power and Special Defense, letting Shroomish dent things with its Giga Drain as well as tank the rare Ice Beam or two from bulky Water-types.</p>

    <p>In terms of teammates, Shroomish likes Pokemon that can get rid of opposing Grass-, Ice-, and Flying-types, which can all wall or KO it. Pokemon like Tirtouga or Chinchou that can beat Flying- and Fire-types are also great partners. Shroomish can help by tanking Grass- and Electric-type moves in return. Ponyta and Houndour are great partners too as they appreciate the removal of Ground- and Water-types and can eliminate Fire-, Grass- and Ice-types for Shroomish. Ponyta even sets up Sunny Day, which boosts Shroomish's Synthesis recovery. Natu can reflect status and Taunt, as well as defeat Grass-types with Hidden Power Flying.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shroomish can also run an effective SubSeed set with Poison Heal, but it loses the Eviolite set's ability to tank hits and reply back with quick damage. It is also outclassed by Foongus and Cottonee, the former of which has a great resistance to Fighting-type attacks and the latter has priority and a better support movepool. Other than that, there is not very much else Shroomish can do. Focus Punch with Seed Bomb can be used, but Shroomish has a low Attack, so it's better off using support moves. A Choice Scarf can also be used to grab fast Spores, but again it is easily set up on afterwards, making it a very risky option.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Virtually anything with Taunt can defeat Shroomish, as it relies heavily on its support moves in order to deal any real damage to opponents. Good examples are Misdreavus, which can hit Shroomish's weaker Special Defefense, as well as Vullaby, which can KO with Brave Bird. Grass-types are also annoying as they resist Shroomish's STAB and are immune to Leech Seed. Cottonee, which also learns Taunt and can set up, or Foongus, which can KO with Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power Fire, are good examples. Ferroseed can also set up hazards, but it has to watch for Hidden Power Fire. Snover can come in and OHKO with Blizzard, but it too must watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Flying-types can also be trouble because many of them can hit Shroomish for a lot of damage with their STAB moves. Insomnia Murkrow is immune to Spore and can OHKO with Brave Bird, and Natu can reflect Shroomish's attacks and kill with Hidden Power Flying. Fire-types can also quickly become problems for Shroomish once Spore has been used. Houndour, Larvesta, and Ponyta resist all of Shroomish's attacks and can KO with the appropriate STAB super effective attack. Larvesta can also hit hard with U-turn as well as scout for switch-ins. Pokemon with Substitute can also counter Shroomish, as Substitute blocks Shroomish's status and Leech Seed. Ghastly is a good pokemon to do this because it also resists Giga Drain. Pokemon with Shed Skin can also defeat Shroomish; Dratini resists Shroomish's attacks and can set up. Scraggy can use its great bulk to set up as well. Finally, Pokemon with Sap Sipper are also extremely annoying, as they are immune to Leech Seed, Spore, and Giga Drain and can get a free attack boost and then KO. Deerling is a great example, but it must watch out for Hidden Power Fire or Toxic.</p>
  2. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    I actually prefer Poison Heal on the Eviolite set, for the reasons you mention in the Overview. Toxic is crippling to bulky Pokemon, and having not only an immunity to it, but something that makes it a positive, is extremely helpful. It makes the opponent more weary of spamming Toxic, and improves Shroomish's longevity. I can see the merit in Effect Spore though, so perhaps slash them both (I think Poison Heal should have the first slash, but maybe that's just me). Can other QC people weigh in on this?

    As far as teammates for the first set, when you're talking about Ponyta, you should mention that the Sunny Day support it provides helps out Shroomish a lot. I wouldn't mention Tirtouga as a Poke that can tank Ice attacks though; the only Pokemon that commonly uses Ice is Snover, who Tirtouga obviously doesn't match up well against. However, it does check Murkrow nicely, so I would keep the mention of it. You might want to add more teammates though.

    Just a small nitpick, but when you mention Natu, I would replace all mentions of Drill Peck with Hidden Power Flying, because that's what it runs more often.

    Also, elaborate on the checks and counters. When you mention Taunt users, you should list a few, like Misdreavus, and Vullaby. When you mention Grass-types, you can elaborate; Lileep and Ferroseed can set up entry hazards, Foongus can shrug off the hits from Shroomish and retaliate with STAB Poison attacks, and Snover can threaten it with Blizzard. You should mention the common Fire-types, like Poynta, Larvesta, and Houndour, who can all easily switch in after Shroomish has used Spore. Also, Scraggy (and Dratini) probably deserve mentions, because they can set up on Shroomish.


    If you implement those, I'll stamp it~
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Done.

    Regarding Poison Heal, I talked to blarajan and we agreed that Effect Spore has just as much useful utility. Because Shroomish more of a physical tank, being able to indirectly slam U-Turners or Fighting types with status is very useful. Also, Shroomish itself already repels Toxics, as even with Effect Spore the opponent will be reluctant, fearing PHeal.

    Though, I do see your reasoning, as there are just as many scenarios where PHeal would be better than ESpore. For now, I'm slashing both.
  4. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    kk. I'll let other people weigh in on the ability choice, IDK.

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  5. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    subseed sucks straight dick

    remove it imo

    just leave the ability slash blank...either one works fine. just discuss the two intensely.

    qc 2/2 if you scrap subseed
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    ah, I'm not too sure I agree with the 'scrap subseed' idea. I have been testing it for a long time and it has performed extremely well, usually knocking out a poke and crippling one or two more. It really surpassed my initial expectations because of its great Sand / Hail defeating strategies, being able to use residual and leech seed damage to outstall opponents.

    I will remove mention of an ability on the evio set. EDIT: done.
  7. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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  8. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    My main problem with it is that it straight up loses to Grass-types, Substitute users, and most infuriatingly, standard Mienfoo. If you land a good Spore you might be able to do something, but more often than not it ends up being dead weight aside from sleeping something (which the Eviolite set does better anyways since it has more bulk).
  9. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc10575245

    a log. Shroomish's ability to stall down opponents is accurately shown in the first and last few turns.

    I recognize that it can not penetrate grass types / magic bouncers, but keep in mind that all you need is prediction in order to defeat Sub / Taunters, and it is of my opinion that this is not very hard to do. In fact, a properly timed Leech Seed can hinder Missy even more because when she will be more hesitant to Substitute. A properly timed Spore can knock out an important opponent, such as a Scarfoo or a Foongus. Also, Shroomish's job isn't to actually KO any opponents- though, if it can, by golly it is preferred. Shroomish's job in that set is to seriously damage / hinder opposing pokemon- stalling until they're either low enough for a sweeper to KO or just shutting them down so that a teammate can set up.


    Also, keep in mind that if the opponent does not carry Taunt / Sub / Recovery, it is exceedingly hard to stop Shroomish once it gets started. There have been plenty of matches where I've stalled out 2 or 3 of my opponents pokemon, and switched out Shroomish, which didn't even take a scratch. (and of course, should I be able to replicate this situation, I will provide logs) Status stalling can't stop Shroomish, because it has Poison Heal as well as Substitute to block status. It doesn't mind weather damage either because Poison Heal more than makes up for it. Sheer power can't stop Shroomish either, because it can easily Protect / Substitute stall. Sure, they can switch but hazards can easily make that a no-no.


    I recognize that SubSeed Shroomish has flaws, however because of the above reasons I strongly disagree with the notion of removing the set.




    oh ok I have a log:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc10577477

    Shroomish stalled this guy's entire team to death. Ofc there was WoW support from Missy which helped a bunch but much of the killing was done by Shroomish. Hopefully this is enough evidence.
  10. iss

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    The first guy had a Chingling and a Cleffa, and the second guy was using Oshawott. Can you provide some better logs :x

    Shroomish is fairly easy to play around since your Protects are really obvious, and they can just switch to their counter on that turn. Having to eat a Spore is pretty much necessary when playing against Shroomish/Foongus- Murkrow/Snover will almost never be used for Sleep fodder.
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    lol it's tough to find a match with a player without such pkmn, iss

    anyway, sure protect is obvious but even if they switch I still have a Sub up, and I can take it from there.

    I understand what you guys are all trying to say, but I still really really disagree with the idea of taking away SubSeed Shroomish. Not even because it's very useful but also because it is one of Shroomish's niches. Sure, it's beaten by Taunt / Magic Bounce / Substitute, but Shroomish's Evio set has the same amount of troubles with said pokemon. The counters you are listing are for Shroomish in general, not for this specific set, which imo is not a good enough reason to take it down.

    And yes I will look for better logs. >.>
  12. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Ok, so I released this plan on IRC today, but I'd like to explain it more in detail here.

    I have done some extensive testing, and I have concluded that SubSeed may not be worth the set anymore, especially not in higher level play. Due to the fact that it requires a few turns to set up and even then is quite easily countered by switching or going to a grass type, it is hard to make Shroomish worth its slot on the team. However, I still feel as if a set with Poison Heal / Toxic Orb and Leech Seed should be on at least somewhere, so here is my plan:

    Join the Eviolite and the SubSeed set.

    Probably something like

    name: Utility (or something more clever)
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Leech Seed / Synthesis
    move 4: Toxic / Stun Spore
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Bold
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD

    I think combining the two sets is a good idea as it gives Shroomish the option of stalling or being run as a tank. I have decided that Poison Heal + Toxic Orb is a much better item / ability combination than Evio + anything else, because being able to heal yourself by 12% each turn as well as being immune to status and being able to cripple the rare Tricker is infinitely useful. Leech Seed is also a great move for Shroomish in my opinion, as it can also serve as further healing or whitting down on the opponent. The offensive and support prowess of the other set is also really great too, however, so I've added them both in to the set. Giga Drain hits decently hard, grants semi decent recovery, and lets you beat Drilbur / Water types / Rock types without having to stall and risk damage. Toxic and Stun Spore are both great utility moves in Shroomish, as one helps it stall further and one aids its teammates. The evs are ripped off of the Evio set for some tankish abilities. Oh yeah and it needs 40 SpA to hit 11 SpA if it runs HP Fire, I did the calc myself. 36 only grants 10 SpA if you use HP Fire; I've edited the comment in to the OP


    If QC members could weigh their opinions in on this change / set, it would be great. I'll make the edits in when enough people agree.
  13. blarajan

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    Sorry, no. Bulky Shroomish loses any ability to work as a pivot with this idea. There is actually no reason to use this set; it's just as useless as SubSeed is. Stick with Bulky Eviolite and put Leech Seed in OO.
  14. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Alright then. I personally still quite strongly believe that Shroomish is great with SubSeed- but I'll trust the judgement of the QC members.

    SubSeed has been allocated to OO.

    Anything else?
  15. blarajan

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  16. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Thanks for the second QC Approval, blarajan!

    I've written it up; just need one more QC check before this is ready for GP!
  17. macle

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    content wise it looks good QC 3/3

    but remove mentions of bw1. Write it like it always had a dream world ability. Also no space inbetween paragraph tags and the first word of the paragraph.
  18. Electrolyte

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    Fixed everything. Thanks macle!

    READY FOR GP CHECKS
  19. GatoDelFuego

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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]

    <p>Shroomish may might just seem like another Grass-type in LC, but it has many unique traits and abilities, allowing it to fulfill its own unique niche apart from that of the other Grass-types of the tier. In a metagame where almost every team needs a good answer to sand teams, Shroomish shines with its pure Grass typing, which allows it to wall most common sand sweepers. This gives it an advantage over its brethren Foongus and Lileep, who which carry a secondary typing that makes both only neutral to Ground type attacks. Shroomish's Grass typing also helps it tank Water- and Electric-type attacks, letting it handle Pokemon like Chinchou or Tirtouga with relative ease. Spore also makes Shroomish stand out, allowing it to shut down any opposing Pokemon, (RC) and buying itself or its teammates time to set up. Poison Heal is another great asset of Shroomish, as it grants Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a quick way of recovery should it get poisoned. Shroomish has great balanced defenses and a moderate Special Attack stat, perfect for the role of a bulky tank for balanced teams. It has a plethora of great support moves such as Leech Seed, Toxic, or Stun Spore too. However, it still suffers from quite a few old counters. Pokemon with Taunt or Magic Bounce can thwart Shroomish's attempts of support, (RC) and brush off its relatively weak special attacks. Pokemon with Substitute and nice defenses can also wall Shroomish, as the Substitute prevents Shroomish's support moves from working. Despite all this, Shroomish still remains a top-tier sand counter in LC because of its great typing and defensive stats and access to very rare and useful support moves, and all teams that want a sand counter should definitely consider Shroomish.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Eviolite
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Synthesis
    move 4: Toxic / Stun Spore
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Bold
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish's best set in LC lets it hold the spot as one of the best sand counters in the metagame. Its awesome resistances and balanced defenses when combined with an Eviolite lets it sponge hits from common threats like such as Drilbur, Tirtouga, Chinchou, and Hippopotas. With an Eviolite, it can shrug off two hits from +2 Adamant Drilbur's X-Scissor and KO back with Giga Drain, recovering off the HP lost HP in the process. It can also live a +2 Stone Edge from Shell Smash Tirtouga and OHKO back with Giga Drain or shut it down with Spore. Similarly, it can come in on Chinchou and Staryu and simply just sit and suck out their HP with Giga Drain as they fail to scratch Shroomish's bulky hide. Shroomish is a great tank because nearly anything that can't OHKO it can be shut down by Shroomish's Spore and then gradually KOed by Giga Drain. Using its decent Special Attack, Shroomish can quickly eliminate most of the opponents it commonly walls, as they are usually weak to Grass. Shroomish also has access to a great recovery move in Synthesis, which heals it and lets it switch in repeatedly to sponge attacks. With Toxic or Stun Spore, Shroomish can be used to cripple defensive pokemon or offensive pokemon respectively&mdash;depending on which group the player wants Shroomish to handle. Toxic quickly wears down opponents that lack recovery, (AC) especially when used in conjunction with residual damage, while Stun Spore can be used to further cripple opponents after Sleep Cause has been activated.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish has quite a few other options it can use. Leech Seed is another great support move that can be used to stall the opponent as well as heal up Shroomish's HP gradually. Hidden Power Fire is a nice way to beat opposing Grass- and Steel-types that give Shroomish trouble. If Shroomish does use Hidden Power Fire, it should have 40 SpA EVs instead, as they are needed to bump Shroomish's SpA back up to 11. Both of Shroomish's abilities can be used to great effect. Poison Heal can be run to give Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a way to heal itself gradually should it switch in on an opponent's Toxic. However, Poison Heal relies on support from the opponent, making it a situational yet still useful ability. Effect Spore can be used to potentially cripple phyical attackers that Shroomish commonly walls, and can even put another opponent to sleep. What is going on here? What is the main ability, even? Mention one of them as the main in the set comments, and the other, inferior option, here The given EVs maximize Shroomish's HP and Defense, letting it wall sand teams and other physically attacking pokemon with ease. The EVs are then split to balance power and Special Defense, letting Shroomish dent things with its Giga Drain as well as tank the rare Ice Beam or two from bulky Water-types.</p>

    <p>In terms of teammates, Shroomish likes Pokemon that can get rid of opposing Grass-, Ice-, and Flying-types, who which can all wall or KO it the little fungus. Pokemon like Tirtouga or Chinchou who that can nail flyers and beat Fire-types are also great partners. Shroomish can help by tanking Grass- and Electric-type moves in return. Ponyta and Houndour are great partners too as they appreciate the removal of Ground- and Water-types and can eliminate Grass- and Ice-types for Shroomish. Ponyta even sets up Sunny Day, which boosts Shroomish's Synthesis's recovery. Natu can reflect status and Taunt, as well as defeat Grass-types with Hidden Power Flying.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shroomish can also run an effective SubSeed set with Poison Heal, but however it loses the Eviolite set's ability to tank hits and reply back with quick damage. It is also outclassed by Foongus and Cottonee, the former of which has a great resistance to Fighting-type attacks and the latter of which has priority and a better support movepool. Other than that, there is not very much else Shroomish can do. Focus Punch with Seed Bomb can be used, but Shroomish has a low Attack stat, so it's better off using support moves. A Choice Scarf can also be used to grab fast Spores, but again it is easily set up on afterwards, making it a very risky option.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Virtually anything with Taunt can defeat Shroomish, as it relies heavily on its support moves in order to deal any real damage to opponents. Good examples are Misdreavus, who which can hit Shroomish's weaker Special Defense, as well as Vullaby, who which can KO with Brave Bird. Grass-types are also annoying as they resist Shroomish's STAB and are immune to Leech Seed. Pokemon like Cottonee, who which also learns Taunt and can set up, or and Foongus, who which can KO with Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power Fire, are good examples. Ferroseed can also set up hazards, but it has to watch for Hidden Power Fire. Snover too can come in and OHKO with Blizzard, but it too must watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Flying-types can also be trouble. Insomnia Murkrow is immune to Spore and can OHKO with Brave Bird, and Natu can reflect Shroomish's attacks and kill with Hidden Power Flying. Fire-types can also quickly become problems for Shroomish once Spore has been used. Houndour, Larvesta, and Ponyta resist all of Shroomish's attacks and can KO with the appropriate STAB SE attack. Larvesta can also hit hard with U-Turn as well as scout for switch-ins. Pokemon with Substitute can also counter Shroomish, as Substitutes block Shroomish's status and Leech Seed. Ghastly is a good pokemon to do this because it also resists Giga Drain. Pokemon with Shed Skin can also defeat Shroomish; (SC) Dratini resists Shroomish's attacks and can set up. Scraggy can use its great bulk to set up as well. Finally, Pokemon with Sap Sippers are also extremely annoying, as they are immune to Leech Seed, Spore, and Giga Drain, (RC) and can get a free attack boost and then KO. Deerling is a great example, but it must watch out for Hidden Power Fire or Toxic other status moves.</p>


    Good prose and "real" grammar, but the pokegrammar was not good. Not capitalizing and hyphenating the types, abbreviating Special Defense, abbreviating hidden power, capitalizing sand...hopefully these won't happen again in your next writeup!

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  20. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    [Overview]

    <p>Shroomish may just seem like another grass type in LC, but it has many unique traits and abilities, allowing it to fulfill its own unique niche apart from that of the other grass types of the tier. In a metagame where almost every team needs a good answer to sand teams, Shroomish shines with its pure-Grass typing-, which allows it to wall most common Sand sweepers. This gives it an advantage over its brethren Foongus and Lileep, who carry a secondary typing that makes both only neutral to Ground type attacks. Shroomish's Grass typing also helps it tank Water- and Electric-type attacks, letting it handle pPokemon like Chinchou or Tirtouga with relative ease. Spore also makes Shroomish stand out, allowing it to shut down any opposing pPokemon, and buying itself or its team mates time to set up. Poison Heal is another great asset of Shroomish, as it grants Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a quick way of recovery should it get poisoned. Shroomish has great balanced defenses and a moderate Special aAttack stat, perfect for the role of a bulky tank for balanced teams. It has a plethora of great support moves such as Leech Seed, Toxic, or Stun Spore too. However, it still suffers from quite a few old counters. Pokemon with Taunt or Magic Bounce can thwart Shroomish's attempts of support, and brush off its relatively weak special attacks. Pokemon with Substitute and nice defenses can also wall Shroomish, as the Substitute prevents Shroomish's support moves from working. Despite all this, Shroomish still remains a top tier sand counter in LC because of its great typing and, defensive stats, and access to very rare and useful support moves, and all teams that want a Sand counter should definitely consider Shroomish.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Eviolite
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Synthesis
    move 4: Toxic / Stun Spore
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Bold
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish's best set in LC lets it hold the spot as one of the best Sand counters in the metagame. Its awesome resistances and balanced defenses when combined with an eEviolite lets it sponge hits from common threats like Drilbur, Tirtouga, Chinchou, and Hippopotas. With an eEviolite, it can shrug off two hits from +2 Adamant Drilbur's X-Scissor and KO back with Giga Drain, recovering off the HP loss in the process. It can also live a +2 Stone Edge from Shell Smash Tirtouga and OHKO back with Giga Drain or shut it down with Spore. Similarly, it can come in on Chinchou and Staryu and simply just sit and suck out their HP with Giga Drain as they fail to scratch Shroomish's bulky hide. Shroomish is a great tank because nearly anything that can't OHKO it can be shut down by Shroomish's Spore and then gradually KO'ed by Giga Drain. Using its decent special attack, Shroomish can quickly eliminate most of the opponents it commonly walls, as they are usually weak to Grass. Shroomish also has access to a great recovery move in Synthesis, which heals it and lets it switch in repeatedly to sponge attacks. With Toxic or Stun Spore, Shroomish can be used to cripple defensive pokemon or offensive pPokemon respectively-, depending on which gryoup the player wants Shroomish to handle. Toxic quickly wears down opponents that lack recovery especially when used in conjunction with residual damage, while Stun Spore can be used to further cripple opponents after Sleep Cause has been activated.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shroomish has quite a few other options it can use. Leech Seed is another great support move that can be used to stall the opponent as well as heal up Shroomish's HP gradually. Hidden Power Fire is a nice way to beat opposing Grass and Steel types that give Shroomish trouble. If Shroomish does use Hidden Power Fire, it should have 40 SpA EV's in Special Attack instead, as they are needed to bump Shroomish's Special Attack back up to 11. Both of Shroomish's abilities can be used to great effect. Poison Heal can be run to give Shroomish an immunity to Toxic as well as a way to heal itself gradually should it switch in on an opponent's Toxic. However, Poison Heal relies on support from the opponent, making it a situational yet still useful ability. Effect Spore can be used to potentially cripple physical attackers that Shroomish commonly walls, and can even put another opponent to sleep. The given EV's maximize Shroomish's HP and Defense, letting it wall Sand teams and other physically attacking pokemon with ease. The EV's are then split to balance power and SpDef, letting Shroomish dent things with its Giga Drain as well as tank the rare Ice Beam or two from bulky wWater-types.</p>

    <p>In terms of teammates, Shroomish likes pokemon that can get rid of opposing Grass-, Ice-, and Flying-types, who can all wall or KO the little fungus. Pokemon like Tirtouga or Chinchou who can nail fFlying-typers and beat Fire-types are also great partners. Shroomish can help by tanking gGrass- and eElectric-type moves in return. Ponyta and Houndour are great partners too as they appreciate the removal of gGround- and wWater types and can eliminate gGrass- and iIce- types for Shroomish (what about Flash Fire?). Ponyta even sets Sunny Day, which boosts Shroomish's Synthesis's recovery. Natu can reflect status and tTaunt, as well as defeat gGrass-types with Hidden Power Flying.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shroomish can also run an effective SubSeed set with Poison Heal, however it loses the Eviolite set's ability to tank hits and reply back with quick damage. It is also outclassed by Foongus and Cottonee, the former of which has a great resistance to Fighting-type attacks and the latter of which has Ppriority and a better support movepool. Other than that, there is not very much else Shroomish can do. Focus Punch with Seed Bomb can be used, but Shroomish has a low Attack stat, so it's better off using support moves. A Choice Scarf can also be used to grab fast Spores, but again it is easily set up on afterwards, making it a very risky option.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Virtually anything with Taunt can defeat Shroomish, as it relies heavily on its support moves in order to deal any real damage to opponents. Good examples are Misdreavus, who can hit Shroomish's weaker Special Defense, as well as Vullaby, who can KO with Brave Bird. Grass-types are also annoying as they resist Shroomish's STAB and are immune to Leech Seed. Pokemon like Cottonee, who also learns Taunt and can set up, or Foongus, who can KO with Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power Fire, are good examples. Ferroseed can also set up hazards, but it has to watch for Hidden Power Fire. Snover too can come in and OHKO with Blizzard, but it too must watch out for Hidden Power Fire. Flying-types can also be trouble (you might want to add some more beef to this sentence, seems kinda sloppily thrown in there). Insomnia Murkrow is immune to Spore and can OHKO with Brave Bird. Natu can reflect Shroomish's attacks and kill with Hidden Power Flying. Fire types can also quickly become problems for Shroomish once Spore has been used. Houndour, Larvesta, and Ponyta resist all of Shroomish's attacks and can KO with the appropriate STAB SEsuper effective attack. Larvesta can also hit hard with U-Tturn as well as scout for switch-ins. Pokemon with Substitute can also counter Shroomish, as Substitutes blocks Shroomish's status and Leech Seed. Ghastly is a good pPokemon to do this because it also resists Giga Drain. Pokemon with Shed Skin can also defeat Shroomish-; Dratini resists Shroomish's attacks and can set up. Scraggy can use its great bulk to set up as well. Finally, Sap Sippers are also extremely annoying, as they are immune to Leech Seed, Spore, and Giga Drain, and can get a free aAttack boost and then KO. Deerling is a great example, but it must watch out for Hidden Power Fire or other status moves.</p>

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  21. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    OK, I've implemented the changes of Gato Del Fuego and NixHex. I guess I need one more, as NixHex was ninja'd :/

    Also, regarding the ability of Shroomish on the Eviolite set; both work very well, and neither is better than the other. Do I still have to specify which ability is preferred?

    EDIT: Got it, NixHex.

    DONE
  22. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    count ours as 1 & 2.
  23. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Alright, uploadinged

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