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UU Shuckle

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by TheManlyLadybug, May 11, 2014.

  1. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Status: Done! Good job, guys!
    QC: 3/3 [Calloflochie] [radianthero156] [Limitless]
    GP: 2/2 [Legitimate Username] [Calm Pokemaster]

    DON'T FUCKLE WITH SHUCKLE
    [​IMG]

    Overview
    #######

    With the transition to XY, Shuckle got access to Sticky Web, propelling it into the upper tiers. Shuckle has carved a niche for itself as the most reliable Sticky Web setter. It also gets access to Stealth Rock, further augmenting its hazard-laying abilities. In addition, Shuckle can't be set up on thanks to its access to Encore.

    However, not everything is great for our rocky turtle. While its huge base 230 defenses may seem tempting, they're offset by a terrible base 20 HP stat. Furthermore, it is weak to common attacking types and it has no reliable recovery, limiting its longevity to a few precious turns. Its terrible offensive stats condemn it to a support role, as it has to rely on Toxic or Infestation to do any damage. In addition, it is completely crippled by Taunt and Trick, though the former is somewhat mitigated by Mental Herb. It also receives decent competition from Smeargle and Galvantula as a Sticky Web setter, but it outshines them both as the most bulky and reliable user of the hazard. Nevertheless, Shuckle can provide valuable support to the right team, so underestimate it at your own risk.

    Sticky Web
    ########
    Name: Sticky Web
    Move 1: Sticky Web
    Move 2: Stealth Rock
    Move 3: Encore
    Move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    Ability: Sturdy
    Item: Mental Herb / Leftovers
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Calm

    Moves
    ======

    Sticky Web is a phenomenally useful hazard, and Shuckle's number one mission is to set it up. Stealth Rock compliments Sticky Web well, as it does a lot of damage to the Flying-types that are immune to Sticky Web. Encore is very important, as without it, Shuckle is huge setup bait for Pokemon such as Houndoom and Vivillon. It also generates useful momentum for Shuckle's team by forcing switches. Toxic is great for racking up damage and crippling threatening Pokemon. Knock Off is a great utility move for Shuckle to use, as it can cripple Pokemon that heavily rely on their items, such as Gligar, but it is quite weak coming from an uninvested base 20 Attack stat and can get in the way of other Knock Off users. Infestation can be used over Toxic to wear down Steel- and Poison-types, but against all other Pokemon, it's generally inferior. However, it does have the advantage of being able to trap the opponent, creating momentum.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 EVs in HP and full investment in Special Defense with a Calm nature gives Shuckle maximum bulk on the special side while minimizing damage from Foul Play, Stealth Rock, and confusion. A specially defensive spread is generally preferred over a physically defensive one in order to face down Pokemon such as Houndoom, but a physically defensive spread can be used if your team handles special attackers well. A Careful nature is preferred if Knock Off is used in the last slot. The rest of the EVs are thrown into Defense. Mental Herb gives Shuckle a chance against users of Taunt and status and guarantees the setup of at least one of its hazards. However, Leftovers can be used for more longevity in order to set up hazards multiple times a match if needed, but make sure to have an answer to Taunt leads, which are common in the metagame. Sturdy ensures that Shuckle will lay down either Sticky Web or Stealth Rock without getting OHKOed.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As a general rule of thumb, use Stealth Rock before Sticky Web if the opponent has a Pokemon that is 4x weak to it, or if the opponent has two or more Pokemon that are immune to Sticky Web. Otherwise, always use Sticky Web first. Once Shuckle has have laid down both hazards, it can use a combination of Infestation and Encore (if running Infestation) to trap the opponent and switch to an appropriate counter. However, do not hesitate to use Encore if you predict a setup move. Encore should also be used when you predict Rapid Spin or Defog, as one of two things will happen: they will switch out, and Shuckle can get Sticky Web up on the switch, or they will stay in, and you can switch to a setup sweeper and try to sweep from there. Shuckle is best used as a lead, setting up hazards and using Infestation and Encore to mess with your opponent, switching out whenever necessary. If you need to, don't be afraid to use Shuckle as fodder, as its main job is to set up hazards. However, if you spot a potential Rapid Spin or Defog user on the opposing team, you should save Shuckle for later in order to set up hazards again if needed.

    Team Options
    ==========

    Shuckle should only be used on teams that intend to abuse Sticky Web to the fullest. Therefore, Shuckle works well with any Pokemon that has high Attack or Special Attack and middling Speed; examples include, but are not limited to, Chandelure, Hydreigon, Exploud, Darmanitan, Victini, Nidoking, and Entei. Ghost-types are useful for blocking Rapid Spin, Chandelure and Trevenant being good examples. Magic Bounce users such as Xatu and Mega Absol also make great teammates, as they will usually deter the opponent from crippling Shuckle or setting up hazards of their own if they know a Pokemon with Magic Bounce is waiting in the wings.

    Other Options
    ##########

    Shuckle has a decent offensive movepool, but horrid offensive stats prevent it from utilizing it effectively. Acupressure can turn Shuckle into a monstrous tank, but it is ultimately a luck-based move, and Shuckle will often not have enough time to set it up properly. Rest is an option for full recovery, but the loss of momentum generated by using it is so great that it's hardly worth it, especially when paired with a cleric. Besides, Shuckle doesn't need to last forever; it just needs to get down a couple of entry hazards for its team. Power Split essentially halves the foe's offensive stats as Shuckle's are almost nonexistent, forcing switches. Shell Smash can be used with Contrary to act as a pseudo-Cosmic Power along with Toxic, Rest, and Power Split. However, this set is incredibly hard to pull off correctly in the current metagame, as it is countered by Taunt users, Poison-types, and Steel-types, and it is hard to find time to set up. As a result, it will often be a waste of a teamslot. Rock Tomb can be used over Stealth Rock if one of Shuckle's teammates already carries Stealth Rock, as it hits common Taunt users such as Crobat, Aerodactyl, and Azelf.

    Checks & Counters
    #############

    **Magic Bounce**: Pokemon with Magic Bounce, such as Xatu and Mega Absol, can reflect any hazards that Shuckle tries to set up, preventing Shuckle from doing its job. However, Shuckle can deal with these Pokemon to some extent by trapping them with Infestation and switching to an appropriate counter.

    **Super Effective Attacks**: Any Pokemon with a strong super effective STAB attack can deal with Shuckle decently, but they will not prevent Shuckle from setting up Sticky Web. Examples include Starmie, Escavalier, Aerodactyl, and Metagross.

    **Hazard Removal**: Rapid Spin and Defog users such as Starmie, Tentacruel, and Blastoise are useful for removing Sticky Web, but they must be wary of Encore.
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  2. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    This is ready for QC checks
  3. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    Change the nature to Impish, since the person may want to use Knock Off. Don't even slash Infestation; you can mention it if you really want. It's generally a horrible move, though.

    I'd also slash Leftovers as the main item, especially since you're quite bulky.
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  4. Calloflochie

    Calloflochie what it's like being dash space UUTL
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    [​IMG]

    Have a look at these and make the changes since IMO that is the best spread to use for Shuckle.
    -Toxic should definitely be slashed over Infestation as it's just a generally better move since you dont worry about sub cause you can encore known sub users
    - In fact I think it should go Toxic / Knock Off / Infestation
    -Having used Shuckle quite a lot, I think it's best to keep Mental Herb as the item since SW benefits HO more and HO tend to have taunt leads which can fuck with them. Just mention that leftovers can be used if Shuckle is on a more balanced team.

    Basically everything else is alright seeing as OU QC have gone through this previous since it's almost a C/P job straight across seeing as Shuckle is solely good cause it's one of the few mons to get SR and SW.

    Make all those changes and rewrite parts in accordance with it being a SpDef spread over a Def spread and this gets QC 1/3
  5. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Thanks calloflochie!

    Ready for the second QC check!
  6. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Will add Careful since it's now a specially defensive spread, removed Infestation, added Lefties in Set Details.

    Awaiting second QC check.
  7. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    You should still slash in Leftovers. I say this because Shuckle should be in more bulky teams, as you're better off using Smeargle in more offensive teams. I don't mind Mental Herb being the main slash, but Leftovers should still definitely be slashed in after it.
  8. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
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    I disagree. Shuckle isn't supposed to be in bulkier teams, both Shuckle and Smeargle are dead weight after they get their hazards up. The only reason to run Shuckle instead of Smeargle is that Shuckle actually has a chance of setting up hazards twice, and Shuckle can't be taunted because of Mental Herb. I don't want to be dismissing, but Leftovers Shuckle is just garbage, because it doesn't help with Shuckle's job at all, especially compared to Mental Herb. Shuckle vs Smeargle is a matter of preference, not based on what type of team you're running.
  9. LightningLuxray

    LightningLuxray Lancer
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    Yeah Lefties sucks on Shuckle OO at most :x
    TheManlyLadybug likes this.
  10. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    I put Lefties in OO for now, still awaiting 2nd QC check Limitless Kushalos Royalty could one of you check this please
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  11. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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  12. radianthero156

    radianthero156
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    firstly, remove manaphy mention since it's BL. after that, i think you should explain why one should prefer the special defensive spread over the physically defensive one, but still mention in the other options that the latter can be used. lastly, mention rock tomb as an option over stealth rock as it punishes taunt users like crobat, and there are a lot of offensive mons that fit onto sticky web teams that can set sr easily, so stealth rock isn't that mandatory.

    after that is done, qc approved 2/3
  13. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Thanks a lot! I will write this up when I can
  14. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    This is now written up and ready for the third QC check! Limitless Royalty Kushalos kokoloko Ernesto or any other QC member I would greatly appreciate a final QC check so we can get this to the GP stage.
  15. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    Leftovers should at least be mentioned somewhere...
  16. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    I know its really weird to be seeing an analysis for a defensive Pokemon without Lefties, but hear me out. Shuckle's job is to set up Sticky Web (and possibly Stealth Rock). Nothing else. Taunt fully prevents Shuckle from doing that job. Mental Herb allows it to block Taunt once, giving it an important chance to set up Sticky Web. If any other item is run, Taunt users have full reign over Shuckle and prevent Shuckle from doing its job, making it completely useless. Mental Herb is crucial to guarantee Sticky Web for its team. Leftovers is nice, but Shuckle doesn't need to last forever; it only needs to set up Sticky Web and possibly Stealth Rock. Because of this, I don't think Leftovers deserves a mention anywhere in the analysis, but if you provide solid reasons I will consider adding it in OO. Nothing against you but Mental Herb is a much, much better choice.
  17. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    I can't believe you won't even put this in OO.

    lol someone else can deal with you.
    DittoCrow and Bouffalant like this.
  18. Bouffalant

    Bouffalant 21:14 Omfuga I've only seen case's dick twice.
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    because taunt leads are SO common in the metagame. you literally have azelf aero sableye, possibly mew and crobat. leftovers isnt that good but at the very least put it in fucking oo.
  19. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    You still haven't given me adequate reasons as to why Leftovers should be considered at all, but whatever, I'll put it in OO.
  20. Bouffalant

    Bouffalant 21:14 Omfuga I've only seen case's dick twice.
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    because you have the idea burned into your brain that shuckle is a suicide lead which it clearly isnt just by looking at its stats
  21. Kushalos

    Kushalos Steph, hot idiot
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    TheManlyLadybug Shuckle doesn't HAVE to be used as a suicide lead, it can still pull of a support set with leftovers thats pretty much the same as the suicide lead, it's just played differently because it can set up hazards multiple times during the match if necessary. All you need to do is slash leftovers after Mental Herb and explain how it is played.
  22. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Alright, I shifted Leftovers from OO to being slashed after Mental Herb. I don't want to become enemies with you guys. Still awaiting QC checks Kushalos Limitless Royalty kokoloko or anybody else.
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  23. Limitless

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  24. TheManlyLadybug

    TheManlyLadybug Banned deucer.

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    Thanks a lot for not becoming super mad at me and for the QC check! This is now ready for GP!!
  25. fleurdyleurse

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    Overview
    #######

    In past generations, Shuckle wasn't a very good Pokemon;. However, the generation shift changed that. With the transition to XY, Shuckle got access to Sticky Web, propelling it into the upper tiers. Shuckle has carved a niche for itself as the most reliable Sticky Web setter. It also gets access to Stealth Rock, further augmenting its hazard-laying abilities. In addition, Shuckle can't be set up on thanks to its access to Encore.

    However, not everything is great for our rocky turtle. While its huge base 230 defenses may seem tempting, they're offset by a absolutely terrible base 20 HP stat. IFurthermore, it is weak to common attacking types and has no reliable recovery, limiting its survivability to a few precious turns. Its putridhorrible Attack, Special Attack, and Speed stats condemn it to a support role, as it havings to rely on Toxic or Infestation to do any damage. In addition, it is completely crippled by Taunt and Trick, though the former is somewhat negated by Mental Herb. It also receives decent competition from Smeargle and Galvantula as a Sticky Web setter, but outshines them both as the most bulky and reliable user of the hazard. Nevertheless, Shuckle can provide valuable support to the right team, so don't underestimate it at your own risk.

    Sticky Web
    ########
    Name: Sticky Web
    Move 1: Sticky Web
    Move 2: Stealth Rock
    Move 3: Encore
    Move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    Ability: Sturdy
    Item: Mental Herb / Leftovers
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def
    Nature: Calm

    Moves
    ======

    Sticky Web is Sticky Web, and Shuckle's number one mission is to set it up. Stealth Rock creates a nice entry hazard combination withplements Sticky Web well, as it does a lot of damage to the Flying-types that are immune to Sticky Web. Encore is very important, as without it, Shuckle is huge setup bait for Pokemon such as Houndoom and Vivillion. It also generates useful momentum for Shuckle's team by forcing switches. Toxic is great for racking up damage and crippling threatening Pokemon. Knock Off is a great utility move for Shuckle to use, as it cripples Pokemon that rely heavily on their items such as Gligar, but it is quite weak coming from an uninvested Shuckle and can get in the way of other Knock Off users. Infestation can be used over Toxic to wear down Steel-types and Poison-types, but against all other Pokemon, it's generally inferior. However, it does have the advantage of being able to trap the opponent, creating momentum.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 EVs in HP and full investment in Special Defense with a Calm nature gives Shuckle maximum bulk on the special side while minimizing Foul Play, Stealth Rock, and confusion damage. A specially defensive spread is generally preferred over a physically defensive spread to face down Pokemon such as Houndoom, but a physically defensive spread can be used if your team already handles special attackers really well. A Careful nature is preferred if Knock Off is used in the last slot. The rest of the EVs are thrown into Defense. Mental Herb gives Shuckle a chance against users of Taunt and status and guarantees the setup of at least one of its hazards. However, Leftovers can be used for more survivability in order to set up hazards multiple times a match if needed, but make sure to have an answer to Taunt leads, which are common in the metagame. Sturdy ensures that Shuckle will lay down either Sticky Web or Stealth Rock without getting OHKOed.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As a general rule of thumb, use Stealth Rock before Sticky Web when the opponent has a Pokemon that is 4x weak to it, or when the opponent has two or more Pokemon immune to Sticky Web. Otherwise, always use Sticky Web first. Once you have laid down both hazards, use a combination of Infestation and Encore (if running Infestation) to trap the opponent, and switch to an appropriate counter. However, do not hesitate to use Encore if you predict a setup move. AEncore should also be use Encored when you predict Rapid Spin or Defog, as one of two things will happen; they will switch out, and you get Sticky Web up on the switch, or they stay in, and you switch to a setup sweeper and attempt atry to sweep from there. Shuckle is best used as a lead, setting up hazards and using Infestation and Encore to mess with your opponent, switching out whenever necessary. If you need to, don't be afraid to fodderuse Shuckle as fodder, as its main job is to set up hazards. However, if you spot a potential Rapid Spin or Defog user on the opposing team, you should try to save Shuckle for later in order to set up hazards again if needed.

    Team Options
    ==========

    Shuckle should only be used on teams that intend to abuse Sticky Web to its fullest. Therefore, Shuckle works well with any Pokemon that has high Attack or Special Attack and middling Speed; examples include, but are not limited to,: Chandelure, Hydreigon, Exploud, Darmanitan, Victini, Nidoking, and Entei. Ghost-types are useful for blocking Rapid Spin. Chandelure and Trevenant are good examples of them. Magic Bounce users such as Xatu and Mega Absol also make great teammates, as the opponenty will usually deter the opponent from crippling Shuckle or setting up hazards of their own if they know a Pokemon with Magic Bounce is waiting in the wings.

    Other Options
    ##########

    Shuckle has a decent offensive movepool, but puthorrid offensive stats prevent it from utilizing it effectively. Acupressure can turn Shuckle into a monstrous tank, but it is ultimately, it is still a luck-based move, and Shuckle will often not have enough time to set it up properly. Rest is an option for full recovery, but the loss of momentum generated by using Rest is so great that it's hardly worth it, especially when paired with a cleric. Besides, Shuckle doesn't need to last forever, it just needs to get down a couple entry hazards for its team. Power Split averages the offensive stats of two Pokemon, and can be useful as it essentially halves the foe's offensive stats as Shuckle's are almost nonexistent. Shell Smash can be used with Contrary to act as a pseudo-Cosmic Power along with Toxic, Rest, and Power Split. However, this set is incredibly hard to pull off correctly in the current metagame, as it is countered by Taunt users, Poison-types, and Steel-types, and is hard to find time to set up. As a result, it will often be a waste of a teamslot. Rock Tomb can be used over Stealth Rock if one of Shuckle's teammates already carries Stealth Rock, as it hits common Taunt users such as Crobat, Aerodactyl, and Azelf.

    Checks & Counters
    #############

    **Magic Bounce**: Pokemon with Magic Bounce, such as Xatu and Mega Absol, reflect back any hazards that Shuckle tries to set up, preventing Shuckle from completdoing its job. However, Shuckle can deal with these Pokemon to some extent by trapping them with Infestation and switching to an appropriate counter.

    **Super Effective Attacks**: Any Pokemon with a strong super effective STAB attack can deal with Shuckle decently, but will not prevent Shuckle from getting up Sticky Web. Examples include Starmie, Escavalier, Aerodactyl, and Metagross.

    **Hazard Removal**: Rapid Spin and Defog users such as Starmie, Tentacruel, and Blastioise are useful for removing Sticky Web, but they must be wary of Encore.

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