SilentEcho's Round 3 QC Assignments (Roserade, Skarmory, Yanmega and Gallade)

[Farmer]

I guess I'll post my early opinions now.

Roserade
- SubSeed needs to be tested.

Skarmory
-Im not really sold on Torment Spiker, it feels like it more suited for other options, will test to see how well it does.
-Careful needs to be slash on Specially Defensive.

Yanmega
-Looks fine I don't see anything that needs to be changed.

Gallade
- I think the choice sets need to be merged, as well as needing trick added to them.
-Substitute + Salac needs to be removed.
-Testing Anti-Lead.
-Testing Double Status.

 

[Sir Azelf]

On the Spiker Roserade i think those speed evs are largely pointless for the reasons given, 36 speed base 100's i.e Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi and Jolly max speed T-Tar. You beat non Psychic/max sp.att LO HP Fire Celebi anyway, Zapdos beats you with Heat Wave and you cannot do squat to it. Tyranitar is debatable, with no sp.att evs again you arent doing much to it and Jirachi beats you regardless with any set.

However in contrast, an ev spread of 252 hp / 120 Def / 136 SDef benefits Roserade much more. It cushions Scizors BP's, Pursuits and you can now cushion Swampert's EQ and even wall/check horrible foes like Breloom MUCH better. The latter of which grant you more opportunities to set Spikes up.

CB Scizor BP Vs 252/120 Def Roserade - 67% - 79%
Same Vs 252 HP / 0 Def - 80.9% - 95.4%

CB Scizor Pursuit Vs (switching) 252 HP / 120 Def Roserade - 59.3% - 70.1%
Same Vs 252 HP/0 Def Roserade - 71.6% - 84.6%

As you can see she takes those sorts of hits ALOT better.

TL;DR, Def evs really help more overall than speed evs.

EDIT :

Skarm:
Yeah the Torment Spiker is OO at best, it really does suck lol.

 

[jumpluff]

Regarding Skarmory, can Specially Defensive be moved to second slot? Order is important imo to show the most common and efficient sets, and Specially Defensive is down the bottom atm. Also, +SpDef is necessary, like you said.

Also the Taunt set. I think it would be better reworked as a lead set or something. Toxic is fairly rare and I personally never run into the set. idk if it's any good or not since I've never seen it, maybe could be tested? Just some thoughts :D

 

[jc104]

Taunt Skarm is excellent, but frankly the set in the analysis is not. The set in the analysis runs far too much speed, taking away from its defensive capabilities. Choice Band Tyranitar are pretty rare, and max speed yet rarer; I understand that was the reason for the number of speed EVs. 128 speed EVs, or even a much lower number like 36, is still effective, as the main thing you are trying to outrun is other Skarm. A specially defensive spread I have found to be equally as viable, allowing you to destroy Blissey that carry Flamethrower for instance. Also, toxic is quite unncessary and quite inferior to Whirlwind/Brave Bird. With taunt you can prevent healing, so you should be able to shuffle the opponents to do damage without them simply recovering, and Whirlwind really helps in checking a number of threats.

You should also definitely add a mention of using Skarm in the lead position with a spread something like 252hp 128 def/spdef 128spe and a Lum berry. Though the lead metagame is largely physical you completely wall all of the lead physical attackers regardless of your spread, so it is largely up to preference. You can easily taunt leads like Swampert, Metagross, Hippowdon and Forretress to prevent setup of SR and proceed to set up spikes, as well as Taunting sleep leads after waking up with Lum berry and spiking in the same way. If you carry Brave Bird over (Toxic/) Whirlwind you can do loads of damage to lead Machamp too.

Lead Roserade should have HP Ice slashed, to beat lead Dragonite and Gliscor, to prevent Dragons from setting up on you, and, crucially, not to lower your speed IV, allowing you to sleep Hp Fire Roserade leads. It also lets you kill Aerodactyl without having to drop your special attack.

 

[Philip7086]

IMO the Swords Dance set should have Shadow Sneak slashed for Gallade.

 

[Zystral]

on Gallade;
Shadow Sneak should be slashed over Night Slash, and Psycho Cut should go into AC imo. Not too sure what you're using Psycho Cut for in OU bar maybe Machamp or Heracross, the latter who you have Stone Edge for regardless, the former probably beats you or will switch out. It's also resisted by a fair amount, so you're probably better off spamming CC or Ice Punch when using Gallade.

I'm not so sure on the Anti-lead. You beat some variants of Azelf, you lose to Infernape, you lose to most Smeargle, you lose to Roserade, you lose to Aerodactyl unless it SRs, you only 2HKO Swampert and Hippowdon, Skarmory can Brave Bird. Metagross and Forretress might be the only leads you beat from the top of my head.

I don't like Double Status, but a set consisting of WoW / Close Combat / Ice Punch / Psycho Cut may work, since you can burn any physical threat except Infernape who can't 2HKO anyway while you Psycho Cut, and Machamp, who again, you Psycho Cut anyway. But once burned, you can Ice Punch Mence, Close Combat TTar, Psycho Cut Heracross, Close Combat Lucario, the list goes on. I wouldn't use Thunder Wave Gallade, since WoW is more useful for the whole team.

 

[Philip7086]

on Gallade;
Shadow Sneak should be slashed over Night Slash, and Psycho Cut should go into AC imo. Not too sure what you're using Psycho Cut for in OU bar maybe Machamp or Heracross, the latter who you have Stone Edge for regardless, the former probably beats you or will switch out. It's also resisted by a fair amount, so you're probably better off spamming CC or Ice Punch when using Gallade.

I'm not so sure on the Anti-lead. You beat some variants of Azelf, you lose to Infernape, you lose to most Smeargle, you lose to Roserade, you lose to Aerodactyl unless it SRs, you only 2HKO Swampert and Hippowdon, Skarmory can Brave Bird. Metagross and Forretress might be the only leads you beat from the top of my head.

I don't like Double Status, but a set consisting of WoW / Close Combat / Ice Punch / Psycho Cut may work, since you can burn any physical threat except Infernape who can't 2HKO anyway while you Psycho Cut, and Machamp, who again, you Psycho Cut anyway. But once burned, you can Ice Punch Mence, Close Combat TTar, Psycho Cut Heracross, Close Combat Lucario, the list goes on. I wouldn't use Thunder Wave Gallade, since WoW is more useful for the whole team.

Heracross does not take super effective damage from Stone Edge. Both are OHKOed by +2 Close Combat anyways. Psycho cut is there because the Fighting + Psychic combination is only resisted by other Psychic types or Spiritomb, and having nearly unresisted dual STAB is great.

 

[twash]

Taunt Skarm is excellent, but frankly the set in the analysis is not. The set in the analysis runs far too much speed, taking away from its defensive capabilities. Choice Band Tyranitar are pretty rare, and max speed yet rarer; I understand that was the reason for the number of speed EVs. 128 speed EVs, or even a much lower number like 36, is still effective, as the main thing you are trying to outrun is other Skarm. A specially defensive spread I have found to be equally as viable, allowing you to destroy Blissey that carry Flamethrower for instance. Also, toxic is quite unncessary and quite inferior to Whirlwind/Brave Bird. With taunt you can prevent healing, so you should be able to shuffle the opponents to do damage without them simply recovering, and Whirlwind really helps in checking a number of threats.

I'll reply to this considering I originally wrote that set:

The set on site is designed to stop Resting stat-up Pokes that are often the last Pokemon, eg. Snorlax, Swampert, Curse TTar etc., while also being a faster Spiker and crippling common switch-ins (Rotom-A, Zapdos, Jolteon, as well as significantly helping wear down offensive threats such as Infernape and Salamence). Brave Bird is overrated on Skarmory, but Whirlwind could definitely be an option across Toxic now. At the time, Toxic was used in tandem with Taunt to wear threats down (I basically wrote the set off my own experience as Taunt wasn't popular at the time), but now it most Skarmory use Taunt to stop other Spikers/stat up users and then use Spikes + Whirlwind as opposed to Toxic. Toxic at least deserves set comments.

 

[Snorlaxe]

I'm planning on updating Roserade soon, and so I've been testing SubSeed. It's not to good; while it is pretty effective, Sceptile does it better due to its much higher Speed. Basically anything faster than Roserade will switch in, easily break her Sub, and then just OHKO her (shes so damn frail). In addition to that, having Sludge Bomb as your only attacking option just sucks, as any Steel-type can simply come in essentially for free and then get free turns to do whatever; the best Roserade can do is Leech Seed, but that won't last long, particularly against a faster Steel like Jirachi or Scarf Heatran.

With all that being said, Spikes is definitely cool on a Leech Seeder, and the ability to nail Celebi, the best Leech Seed switch-in, with a super effective STAB Sludge Bomb is nice. I dont think its used enough to have its own set, but it should definitely be talked about in Optional Changes.

 

[Phantom_IV]

On Gallade: With some HP investment, lead Gallade is bulky enough to run Lum over Sash, allowing it to take down Roserade. Seems like the set doesn't need Destiny Bond, and could easily run Psycho Cut or some other coverage move.

Gallade also does well against the many Machamp leads around these days.

And ah, it seems that TR Gallade set didn't pass QC. That's a shame; it was one of very few offensive Trick Roomers, and could do everything that Agility Luke could.

 

[RaikouLover]

Just posting to say Special Defensive Skarmory needs an Ubers write up or at least a serious test.

Also, I don't think Gallade needs a specific anti-lead set. Swords Dance / Close Combat / Ice Punch / Shadow Sneak @ Lum Berry with an Adamant in the lead position beats a TON of OU leads. Close Combat / Ice Punch + Shadow Sneak beats Roserade, Aerodactyl, Smeargle. Shadow Sneak comes just shy of beating Azelf in 2 hits (Shadow Sneak first, then Dance and Sneak), and +2 Close Combat OHKOs Metagross, Machamp, and does at least 80% to Swampert. Ice Punch Hammers Dragonite and Gliscor.

 

[Setsuna]

Hey SE, here's a Skarmory update which could benefit from your QC final test notes, if anything ;)

 

[Farmer]

Roserade,Yanmega and Skarmory are already taken care of, so the only thing I need to bring up is Gallade. The choice sets need to be merged as I brought up earlier, and Anti-Lead and Double Status both need to removed as results for both sets were mediocre. I don't really see anything else that needs to be changed.

 

[supermarth64]

Do you have any suggestions for the Choice sets with Trick in them? I'm planning on writing the Gallade analysis, so I was wondering what you used on the Choice sets.

 

[Farmer]

Do you have any suggestions for the Choice sets with Trick in them? I'm planning on writing the Gallade analysis, so I was wondering what you used on the Choice sets.

Close Combat
Trick
Stone Edge / Ice Punch
Psycho Cut

That is what I would go with and Shadow Sneak should be mention in ac if they decide to go with banded.