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Simipour (AcroPour) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by scorpdestroyer, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Sweet Jesus came up with the original set, so credit has to go to him, but I made some tweaks which I believe improved it. I can provide replays if needed, but I don't think that's necessary

    Why this set deserves to be onsite:
    Show Hide

    - Very effectively lures in Jynx, Rose, Ludicolo
    - Brings down walls into easy KO range by luring them in and SubEndeavoring them
    - Can easily take down bulky threats with SubEndeavor
    - Still hits hard enough even when going mixed
    - Fast

    Mixed because:
    - Bluffs a special attacking set, so opponents are lured more effectively, and Waterfall is just a dead giveaway saying "HI IM USING ACROPOUR LOLOLOL"
    - Hits harder than max Attack Waterfall vs targets with neutral defenses
    - Hydro Pump is needed to OHKO Torkoal, Golurk, almost OHKO Piloswine. Waterfall fails to achieve this
    - Special walls usually don't give a shit about Waterfall anyway, and Endeavor takes care of them already
    - Still achieves what it wants to achieve ie. lure and kill



    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Acrobatics
    move 4: Endeavor
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set serves as an extremely effective lure to Simipour's usual counters, KOing them to clear the way for one of Simipour's teammates to sweep. Hydro Pump is Simipour's most powerful STAB move, hitting harder than Acrobatics after the Flying Gem is used. Substitute shields Simipour from status moves, protects it from revenge killers, and lowers its own HP to activate Torrent or utilize a more powerful Endeavor. Acrobatics, with a Flying Gem, OHKOes Roselia and Ludicolo expecting to switch into a Water-type move. By luring and defeating these opponents, teammates that have trouble with them have a much easier time sweeping. Finally, Endeavor allows Simipour to bring down walls that attempt to wall it for an easy KO afterwards. Simipour can also bring down any troublesome threat to the team, as long as Simipour outspeeds it, with the combination of Substitute and Endeavor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is required because it lets Simipour outspeed Charizard, Raichu, and Primeape, which is crucial. 156 Attack EVs are needed to always OHKO specially defensive variants of Roselia and Ludicolo with Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, even without Stealth Rock support. The leftover EVs are placed into Special Attack to power up Hydro Pump. 0 HP EVs let Simipour create four Substitutes from full health. Simipour can use a fully physical set with Waterfall, but it doesn't hit as hard as Hydro Pump does and misses out on crucial KOs on Torkoal, Armaldo, and Golurk. Hydro Pump also allows Simipour to bluff a special attacking set, enhancing its ability to lure in the aforementioned threats. Similarly, Surf is also not an option to be considered as it too misses out on KOs against Torkoal and Golurk. Ice Beam or Hidden Power Grass can be used over either Acrobatics or Endeavor to grant Simipour additional coverage if either lure is not needed. If Acrobatics is omitted, an EV spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature should be used. Low Kick is an interesting option to defeat Lickilicky and Regice without relying on Endeavor and wasting HP unnecessarily, but Endeavor already does this well enough in addition to bringing down other walls, such as Mantine. Teammates that share similar counters with Simipour are great teammates as they appreciate the lure removing a roadblock and enabling them to sweep. Ludicolo and Gorebyss are examples of exceptional teammates for this reason. Offensive teammates in general appreciate this set's ability to soften up walls and bulky opponents for an easier time sweeping. Simipour enjoys Toxic Spikes support as the residual damage can finish off opponents after being hit by Endeavor; Garbodor and Roselia are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support. They can also tank Grass-type attacks aimed at Simipour, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes so that Simipour isn't worked down too quickly. Finally, Ground-type Pokemon, such as Golem and Torterra, make good partners for their immunity to Electric-type moves and ability to set up Stealth Rock to help Simipour achieve extra KOs, such as against Haunter and Liepard. Notably, most of these Ground-types also attract Ludicolo and Mantine and lure them in to use Hydro Pump and Scald respectively, giving Simipour more opportunities to switch in on these moves and either OHKO or bring down with Substitute and Endeavor.</p>

    skeleton (open)

    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Endeavor
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Serves as a lure for its teammates
    - Lures in many usual counters, including Jynx, Rose, Ludicolo, and OHKOs them with Acro
    - Substitute helps avoid Lovely Kiss, shield Simipour from status, brings its HP down for Endeavor and Torrent range
    - Endeavor brings walls down for an easy KO
    - Also brings down any troublesome threat to the team if Simipour outspeeds it
    - Hydro Pump is most powerful STAB

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Max Speed because important Speed tier, 156 Atk EVs are needed to always OHKO SDef Ludicolo, SDef Roselia, and Jynx w/ Flying Gem Acro even without SR. Rest thrown into SAtk
    - Hasty allows it to tank Ice Beam from Jynx
    - 0 HP EVs allow 4 subs
    - Fully physical with Waterfall is cool, or Surf can be used for accuracy, but doesn't hit as hard as Hydro Pump, KOs on things like Golurk and Torkoal are also missed. Hydro also allows Simi to bluff a special set
    - Ice Beam or HP Grass can be used over either Acro or Endeavor for coverage if either lure isnt needed and you just need to take down Rose+Ludi+Jynx or special walls
    - Low Kick can take down Lickilicky and Regice, but Endeavor already does this in addition to bringing down other walls such as Mantine
    - Teammates that benefit from this lure are good, Ludicolo and Gorebyss are really good for this
    - Offensive teammates in general also enjoy walls getting brought down to low HP by Endeavor
    - Toxic Spikes support is nice to finish off opponents after Endeavor; Scolipede and Roselia can do this while soaking up Grass-type hits
    - Ground-types can set up SR to allow Simi to achieve KOs, and takes Electric-type hits
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    For reliability's sake I'd say surf>hydro pump to bring down a weakened opp w/o losing your gem
    Looks like a cool set
  3. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    The reason why Surf isn't used is because it loses out on KOs on Torkoal and Golurk, and some other things I can't remember that really should be KOed. which is really, really lame, so despite the accuracy, Hydro Pump has to be used
    Kingler12345 and Soulgazer like this.
  4. FLCL

    FLCL
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    mention that sub also brings down simipour into torrent range
    last line in ac should mention ground types in general rather than golem

    qc 1/3
  5. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Mother of Arceus FLCL actually QCed something
    Implemented, thanks
  6. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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  7. Lasagne

    Lasagne me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!me!
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    you should probably state some of the kos hydro pump achieves that surf doesn't. Just saying 'it lacks power' doesn't really give the reader any more information. Say that hydro pump beats Torkoal and Golurk (and others if you can remember them)
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast feel god's wrath
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    [SET]
    • The move order should be Sub / Hydro / Acro / Endeavor. Hydro is the most important attacking move cos it's the STAB, and Acro is coverage so it goes next. Endeavor is kind of a last-ditch move so it goes last. (Change up the SC accordingly!)
    • 29 HP EVs should be used for four Subs at full, also add a section under the set for IVs so it looks like:
    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Acrobatics
    move 4: Endeavor
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    I trust you should be able to do this so 3/3 scorpdestroyer
  9. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    tbh I think the 29 HP IVs are unnecessary, because even with 31, Simipour still gets 4 subs, except that it's brought down to 3 HP instead of 1, and that doesn't really matter, so I'm keeping the 31 IVs unless I missed something.

    Also, before I implement that check, should Hydro Pump really be first? I mean, the set name is AcroPour and the crux of the set is Acrobatics + SubEndeavor... so, does the set need renaming, or is it the order?

    Dat Blast
  10. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast feel god's wrath
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    Nah, I think it's fine to keep the set name. It's the only set with Acrobatics on it so it's not like it can really be mistaken for anything else.
  11. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Ok fixed that but left the IVs as it is
    Go GP
  12. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    you know da colors
    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Acrobatics
    move 4: Endeavor
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set serves as an extremely effective lure to Simipour's usual counters, KOing them to clear the way for one of Simipour's teammates to sweep. Hydro Pump is Simipour's most powerful STAB move, hitting harder than Acrobatics after the Flying Gem is used. Substitute shields Simipour from status moves, most notably Lovely Kiss from Jynx, protects it from revenge killers, and lowers its own HP stat to activate Torrent or utilize a more powerful Endeavor. Acrobatics, with a Flying Gem, OHKOes Jynx, Roselia, and Ludicolo expecting to switch into a Water-type move. By luring and defeating these opponents, teammates that have trouble with them have a much easier time sweeping. Finally, Endeavor allows Simipour to bring down walls that attempt to wall it for an easy KO afterwards. Simipour can also bring down any troublesome threat to the team, as long as it is faster, with the combination of Substitute and Endeavor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is required because Simipour sits in a crucial Speed tier, allowing it to outspeed Charizard, Raichu, Jynx, and Primeape. 156 Attack EVs are needed to always OHKO Jynx and specially defensive variants of Roselia and Ludicolo with a (!) Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, even without Stealth Rock support. The leftover EVs are placed into Special Attack to power up Hydro Pump. Hasty nature is used to allow Simipour to go mixed while still being able to tank Ice Beam from Jynx. 0 HP EVs are required to allow Simipour to create four Substitutes from full health. Simipour can use a fully physical set with Waterfall, but this doesn't hit as hard as Hydro Pump would,(RC) and it misses out on crucial KOs on Torkoal and Golurk. Hydro Pump also allows Simipour to bluff a special attacking set, allowing it to lure the aforementioned threats more effectively. Similarly, Surf is not an option to be considered as it misses out on KOs against Torkoal and Golurk. Ice Beam or Hidden Power Grass can be used over either Acrobatics (doesn't that defeat the purpose of the set) or Endeavor to grant Simipour additional coverage if either lure is not needed. If Acrobatics is omitted, an EV spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature should be used. Low Kick is an interesting option to defeat Lickilicky and Regice without relying on Endeavor and thus lose wasting HP unnecessarily, but Endeavor already does this well enough in addition to bringing down other walls, such as Mantine. Teammates that share similar counters with Simipour are great teammates as they appreciate the lure removing a roadblock and enabling them to sweep. Ludicolo and Gorebyss are examples of exceptional teammates for this reason. Offensive teammates, in general, appreciate this set's ability to soften up walls and bulky opponents for an easier time sweeping. Simipour enjoys Toxic Spikes support as the residual damage can finish off opponents after being hit by Endeavor. Scolipede and Roselia are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support. They also can tank Grass-type attacks aimed at Simipour, while absorbing Toxic Spikes from the opponent to allow Simipour to use Substitute freely. Finally, Ground-type Pokemon, such as Golem and Torterra, make good partners for their immunity to Electric-type moves and ability to set up Stealth Rock to help Simipour achieve extra KOs. Notably, most of these Ground-types also attract Jynx and Ludicolo and lure them in to use Ice Beam or and Hydro Pump respectively, allowing Simipour to switch in on these moves and OHKO.</p>



    gp 1/2
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  13. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Thanks piikachuu, GP check implemented

    Also it kinda defeats the point of the set but at least you still have Endeavor
  14. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Where's the soul in soldier on?
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    Amcheck

    ADD
    REMOVE
    (COMMENTS)

    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Acrobatics
    move 4: Endeavor
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set serves as an extremely effective lure to Simipour's usual counters, KOing them to clear the way for one of Simipour's teammates to sweep. Hydro Pump is Simipour's most powerful STAB move, hitting harder than Acrobatics after the Flying Gem is used. Substitute shields Simipour from status moves, most notably Lovely Kiss from Jynx, protects it from revenge killers, and lowers its own HP to activate Torrent or utilize a more powerful Endeavor. Acrobatics, with a Flying Gem, OHKOes Jynx, Roselia, and Ludicolo expecting to switch into a Water-type move. By luring and defeating these opponents, teammates that have trouble with them have a much easier time sweeping. Finally, Endeavor allows Simipour to bring down walls that attempt to wall it for an easy KO afterwards. Simipour can also bring down any troublesome threat to the team, as long as Simipour outspeeds it, it is faster, with the combination of Substitute and Endeavor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is required because Simipour sits in a crucial Speed tier allowing it lets Simipour outspeed Charizard, Raichu, Jynx, and Primeape, which is crucial. (This phrase is a bit awkward. It's not just the crucial speed tier that lets Simipour outspeed the threats, it's the combination of natural speed and the max speed investment.) 156 Attack EVs are needed to always OHKO Jynx and specially defensive variants of Roselia and Ludicolo with Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, even without Stealth Rock support. The leftover EVs are placed into Special Attack to power up Hydro Pump. A Hasty nature is used to allow Simipour to go mixed while still being able to tank Ice Beam from Jynx. 0 HP EVs let are required to allow Simipour to create four Substitutes from full health. (repetition) Simipour can use a fully physical set with Waterfall, but it this doesn't hit as hard as Hydro Pump does would and it misses out on crucial KOs on Torkoal and Golurk. Hydro Pump also allows Simipour to bluff a special attacking set, enhancing its ability to lure in the aforementioned threat. allowing it to lure the aforementioned threats more effectively. Similarly, Surf is also not an option to be considered as it too misses out on KOs against Torkoal and Golurk. Ice Beam or Hidden Power Grass can be used over either Acrobatics or Endeavor to grant Simipour additional coverage if either lure is not needed. If Acrobatics is omitted, an EV spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature should be used. Low Kick is an interesting option to defeat Lickilicky and Regice without relying on Endeavor and wasting HP unnecessarily, but Endeavor already does this well enough in addition to bringing down other walls, such as Mantine. (is this suggestion really necessary if it is totally outclassed? I would add some more information regarding opponents that Low Kick can handle but Endeavor can't) Teammates that share similar counters with Simipour are great teammates as they appreciate the lure removing a roadblock and enabling them to sweep. Ludicolo and Gorebyss are examples of exceptional teammates for this reason. Offensive teammates, in general, appreciate this set's ability to soften up walls and bulky opponents for an easier time sweeping. Simipour enjoys Toxic Spikes support as the residual damage can finish off opponents after being hit by Endeavor; Scolipede and Roselia are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support. They can also also can tank Grass-type attacks aimed at Simipour, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes so that Simipour isn't worked down too quickly. from the opponent to allow Simipour to use Substitute freely. Finally, Ground-type Pokemon, such as Golem and Torterra, make good partners for their immunity to Electric-type moves and ability to set up Stealth Rock to help Simipour achieve extra KOs. (please add in and clarify a few examples that Simipour can KO with SR up.) Notably, most of these Ground-types also attract Jynx and Ludicolo and lure them in to use Ice Beam and Hydro Pump respectively, giving allowing Simipour more opportunities to switch in on these moves and OHKO.</p>


    Overall, this was nicely written, so nice job on that. Your only real issue was a few grammar errors here or there and some unhealthy repetition (you used the word "allow" nine times) which I helped fix.

    Great work!

    c/p (open)

    [SET]
    name: AcroPour
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Acrobatics
    move 4: Endeavor
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set serves as an extremely effective lure to Simipour's usual counters, KOing them to clear the way for one of Simipour's teammates to sweep. Hydro Pump is Simipour's most powerful STAB move, hitting harder than Acrobatics after the Flying Gem is used. Substitute shields Simipour from status moves, most notably Lovely Kiss from Jynx, protects it from revenge killers, and lowers its own HP to activate Torrent or utilize a more powerful Endeavor. Acrobatics, with a Flying Gem, OHKOes Jynx, Roselia, and Ludicolo expecting to switch into a Water-type move. By luring and defeating these opponents, teammates that have trouble with them have a much easier time sweeping. Finally, Endeavor allows Simipour to bring down walls that attempt to wall it for an easy KO afterwards. Simipour can also bring down any troublesome threat to the team, as long as Simipour outspeeds it, with the combination of Substitute and Endeavor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is required because it lets Simipour outspeed Charizard, Raichu, Jynx, and Primeape, which is crucial. 156 Attack EVs are needed to always OHKO Jynx and specially defensive variants of Roselia and Ludicolo with Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, even without Stealth Rock support. The leftover EVs are placed into Special Attack to power up Hydro Pump. A Hasty nature is used to allow Simipour to go mixed while still being able to tank Ice Beam from Jynx. 0 HP EVs let Simipour create four Substitutes from full health. Simipour can use a fully physical set with Waterfall, but it doesn't hit as hard as Hydro Pump does and misses out on crucial KOs on Torkoal and Golurk. Hydro Pump also allows Simipour to bluff a special attacking set, enhancing its ability to lure in the aforementioned threats. Similarly, Surf is also not an option to be considered as it too misses out on KOs against Torkoal and Golurk. Ice Beam or Hidden Power Grass can be used over either Acrobatics or Endeavor to grant Simipour additional coverage if either lure is not needed. If Acrobatics is omitted, an EV spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature should be used. Low Kick is an interesting option to defeat Lickilicky and Regice without relying on Endeavor and wasting HP unnecessarily, but Endeavor already does this well enough in addition to bringing down other walls, such as Mantine. Teammates that share similar counters with Simipour are great teammates as they appreciate the lure removing a roadblock and enabling them to sweep. Ludicolo and Gorebyss are examples of exceptional teammates for this reason. Offensive teammates in general appreciate this set's ability to soften up walls and bulky opponents for an easier time sweeping. Simipour enjoys Toxic Spikes support as the residual damage can finish off opponents after being hit by Endeavor; Scolipede and Roselia are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support. They can also tank Grass-type attacks aimed at Simipour, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes so that Simipour isn't worked down too quickly. Finally, Ground-type Pokemon, such as Golem and Torterra, make good partners for their immunity to Electric-type moves and ability to set up Stealth Rock to help Simipour achieve extra KOs. Notably, most of these Ground-types also attract Jynx and Ludicolo and lure them in to use Ice Beam and Hydro Pump respectively, giving Simipour more opportunities to switch in on these moves and OHKO.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  15. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    gp 2/2

    i helped electrolyte perfect the check.

    please address his comments in regards to low kick and sr kos
  16. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Low Kick allows Simipour to defeat Regice and Lickilicky without relying on SubEndeavor (which also means sacrificing itself), so I'd say it still deserves to be in AC. I felt that "without wasting HP unnecessarily" is good enough to justify using Low Kick although most of the time it is inferior

    I implemented the check, thanks Electrolyte and jukain! This can be uploaded
  17. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    uploaded!

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