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Simipour [Revamp] [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by meeps, May 28, 2013.

  1. meeps

    meeps

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    [​IMG]

    Simipour

    <p>Simipour lives in the NU tier, with other fellow powerful Water-types such as Ludicolo, Samurott, and Seismitoad. Due to the dominance these Pokemon have in the tier, Simipour is usually overlooked by many players. The monkey still has its niches in the tier, most notably Nasty Plot giving it sweeping opportunities with useful coverage moves allowing it to hit the entire tier for neutral damage. Simipour also makes a great Choice item user, with solid Special Attack and a nice speed tier allowing it to outspeed other common revenge killers. Simipour also enjoys BW2’s reintroduction of pinch berries, as with Gluttony it reaches pinch berry range after two Substitutes.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Simipour's premier sweeping set, as it has great Speed, coverage, and hits extremely hard after getting a Nasty Plot boost. Simipour's speed is very useful, as it allows it to outspeed some of the major non-scarfed threats in the tier, most notably Charizard, Sawsbuck, and Primeape. Simipour also has excellent coverage allowing Simipour to hit much of the tier for solid damage. Simipour is quite frail though, and it may struggle to successfully use Nasty Plot. It's best possibility to setup a Nasty Plot is using it on a Pokemon slower and weak to Simipour to force a switch and succesfully setup. Nasty Plot is the obvious boosting move for Simipour, being the best move to give it a chance to sweep. Hydro Pump is Simipour's most powerful Water-type move and ensures Simipour can hurt anything that doesn't resist it. Ice Beam gives Simipour additional coverage on Dragon- and Grass-types, such as Altaria and Sawsbuck. Hidden Power Grass allows Simipour to hit other Water-types super effectively, most notably specially defense Seismitoad, which takes Simipour's other attacks easily. Life Orb ensures Simipour is capable of hitting as hard as possible.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>When it comes to alternative attacking options for Simipour, Surf can be used rather than Hydro Pump if its shaky accuracy is an issue. Surf however is significantly weaker than Hydro Pump and somewhat takes away from Simipour's sweeping capabilities. Focus Blast is another option, which can be used over Hidden Power Grass to hit Normal- and Ice-types harder, most notable Lickilicky, Munchlax, and Regice which are capable of taking Simipour's attacks. Grass Knot can be used to hit heavier Pokemon harder, but is generally inferior to Hidden Power Grass due to lighter threats being common, such as Alomomola and Jynx. If Seismitoad does not pose much of a threat to your team, Hidden Power Electric can be used, to damage Mantine, one of Simipour's best counters. If you feel status may annoy you from sweeping with Simipour, Substitute can be used to keep Simipour safe from status and Sucker Punch, but takes away from its coverage. If Life Orb damage worries you, Expert Belt can be used due to Simipour's great coverage, but it takes away from Simipour's damage input significantly. Despite Torrent seeing superior on this set, Nasty Plot and Torrent are an illegal combination.</p>

    <p>When it comes to team support, Simipour enjoys hazard support as it allows it to ensure more KOs and break Sturdy or Focus Sash. Roselia makes a good partner as a Spiker, having good synergy with Simipour resisting Grass and Electric. Simipour and Gorebyss also make a great offensive core. Nasty Plot Simipour along with Shell Smash Gorebyss, the two are capable of wearing down their checks and counters.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSalac
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Nasty Plot
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Salac Berry
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Simipour is also a potent sweeper, with the combination of Nasty Plot and Salac Berry. With Gluttony, Simipour only needs to use Substitute twice to get into Salac Berry range. After a Salac Berry boost, Simipour is capable of outspeeding most of the tie. Along with a Nasty Plot boost, Simipour becomes a force to be reckoned with. Substitute is used to keep Simipour safe from status, setup Nasty Plot with ease, and get closer to Salac Berry range. Nasty Plot again, is the obvious setup move allowing it to hit harder. Hydro Pump is the STAB move being rather powerful with a Nasty Plot boost. Ice Beam is the preferred coverage move as it allows it to hit Grass-types which threaten it harder.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf again, can be used as an alternative choice if you have fears of Hydro Pump missing and ruining a sweep. Depending on the team's needs, Simipour may opt to use Hidden Power Grass. Hazard support is enjoyed, Roselia again being a great partner due to the synergy they share. As Jynx completely laughs at this set, Simipour likes support from Metang or Primeape which have a better chance to deal with Jynx</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When wielding a Choice Scarf, Simipour becomes an impressive revenge killer outspeeding nearly all of the tier's common revenge killers, namely scarf Sawk, Primeape, and Rotom-S or Rotom-F. Choice Specs is an option to be used for instant power making Simipour a solid wallbreaker right off the bat. Hydro Pump is the main STAB hitting anything rather hard that doesn't resist it. Ice Beam is for extra coverage, namely on Dragons and Ice-types. Hidden Power Grass is mainly for other Water-types that stand in Simipour's way. Focus Blast is capable of doing a bit extra damage on Regice, Lickilicky, and Munchlax</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p> Again, if you're worried about Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy, Surf is another option for it. Hidden Power Electric is a nice option which allows Simipour to hit unsuspecting Mantine's pretty hard, but it loses coverage on Seismitoad, a more common threat. A Timid Nature is preferred on Choice Scarf Simipour, as it allows it outspeed Primeape, one of the tier's current premier revenge killers. Modest Nature allows Simipour to hit harder, and still outspeed scarf Timid Rotom-F, Rotom-S, and scarf Jolly Sawk. Torrent can be used on this set as it has been partially released, and is easily the preferred ability.</p>

    <p>Hazard support is nice for Simipour, KOing Sawk with three layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock. Roselia is one of the best Spiker partners for Simipour due to their synergy. Fighting-types are also solid partners for Simipour to break down Regice, Lickilicky, and Munchlax which have little problem taking Choice Scarf Simipour's attacks</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of what has been listed, Simipour does not have many more options as a special attacker. However, Simipour has a decent Attack stat and plenty of usable physical attacks such as Waterfall, Ice Punch, and Superpower. Flying Gem Acrobatics is a nice choice surprising Jynx and Ludicolo which usually have little problem dealing with Simipour's special sets. Simipour has access to other boosting moves in Work Up and Hone Claws, but these are both considered inferior to Nasty Plot</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine easily makes one of the best counters to Simipour with it's mammoth Special Defense and not being hit super effectively by any of Simipour's attacks except for the rare Hidden Power Electric. Ludicolo is a solid check to Simipour, avoiding being KO'd by a +2 Ice Beam from Simipour after Stealth Rock, and proceeding to setup Rain Dance and Giga Drain Simipour. Jynx makes a solid check with decent Special Defense and immunity to Water. It can take a +2 Hidden Power Grass and proceed to Lovely Kiss Simipour. It's important to note Jynx may be unable to do much back if it lacks an attacking move other than Ice Beam. The bulky special walls of the tier, most notably Lickilicky, Munchlax, and Regice can take hits from Simipour quite well, and proceed to phaze it out or hit hard with Thunderbolt in Regice's case. Roselia is a decent check, but it won't always survive a +2 Ice Beam after Stealth Rock. Due to Simipour being rather frail, its Nasty Plot set is revenge killed rather easily by Sawk or Primeape. Both must be wary of SubSalac and Choice Scarf Simipour though. Electric-types such as Zebstrika, Electrode, and scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F can outspeed and easily KO Simipour. They still must be aware of SubSalac and Choice Scarf Simipour. Pokemon with priority such as Gurdurr with Mach Punch and Skuntank with Sucker Punch can take advantage of Simipour's poor bulk and preventing it from sweeping.</p>




    Skeleton:
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    [Overview]

    • Access to boosting moves, most notably Nasty Plot
    • Useful special sweeper, breaking through walls
    • Perfectly capable of wielding a Choice item
    • Generally overlooked due to other powerful Water-types in the tier
    • Has many useful coverage moves
    • Solid pinch berry user due to Gluttony
    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe



    [SET COMMENTS]
    • One of Simipour's best wallbreaking/sweeping sets
    • Speed allows it to outspeed a good amount of the tier unboosted. A few threats in particular are Charizard, Sawsbuck, and Primeape
    • Great coverage allowing it to hit the entire tier for neutral damage
    • Nasty Plot is Simipour's best boosting move
    • Hydro Pump is the strongest STAB move it has
    • Ice Beam provides coverage on Dragon-types and Grass-types
    • Hidden Power Grass hits other Water-types for solid damage
    • Life Orb gives Simipour the damage input it needs

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Surf can be used rather than Hydro Pump as a weaker, but more accurate alternative
    • Focus Blast can be used rather than Hidden Power Grass to hit Normal-types and Ice-types harder.
    • Grass Knot may be used if the need to hit heavier Pokemon is necessary.
    • Hidden Power Electric is an option to surprise Mantine, but Grass is generally superior as it hits Seismitoad super effectively, a more common threat
    • Substitute is another option to keep Simipour safe from status and setup on some of the tier's walls.
    • Expert Belt can be used as an alternative item, but loses a lot of power Life Orb would provide
    • Simipour enjoys hazard support as it can break Focus Sash, Sturdy, and ensure a few more KOs.
    • Torrent may seem superior on this set, but is illegal with Nasty Plot
    • Gorebyss preforms this set in a similar way, using Shell Smash rather than Nasty Plot, and the two can make a great offensive core. The fact the two are capable of breaking down their checks and counters makes them a solid core
    [SET]
    name: SubSalac
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Nasty Plot
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Salac Berry
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Another great sweeping set for Simipour
    • With Gluttony, Simipour reaches Salac Berry range after two Substitutes
    • After a Salac Berry boost Simipour outspeeds most of the tier
    • Substitute is used to keep Simipour safe from status, setup, and get closer to pinch berry range
    • Nasty Plot is used as a setup move, making Simipour lethal and fast with Nasty Plot and Salac Berry boost
    • Hydro Pump is the main STAB move, as it the strongest Water-type attack Simipour can use
    • Ice Beam gives Simipour extra coverage hitting Grass-types and Ice-types
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Surf is an alternative option for Hydro Pump in case of fears of missing with Hydro Pump
    • Hidden Power Grass can be used rather than Ice Beam, depending on the team's needs
    • This set also enjoys hazard support as it helps support a potential sweep
    • Jynx can completely wall this set, so something that can beat with Jynx such as Metang or Primeape can be used as a good teammate
    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • This set aims to be a revenge killer with Choice Scarf, or instant wallbreaker with Choice Specs
    • Speed with Choice Scarf makes Simipour faster than nearly all of the tier's common revenge killers.
    • Hydro Pump is the main STAB move
    • Ice Beam gives Simipour coverage on Dragons and Grass-types
    • Hidden Power Grass is for other Water-types
    • Focus Blast allows Simipour to hit Lickilicky or Audino harder
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Surf is another more accurate option for Hydro Pump
    • Grass Knot can be used if the need to hit heavier Pokemon is necesssary
    • Hidden Power Electric can be used to surprise Mantine, but Hidden Power Grass is superior, due to Seismitoad being more common.
    • A Modest nature can be used with Choice Scarf, but Timid is preferred as it allows Simipour to outspeed Primeape, one of the primere revenge killers in the tier
    • Modest Choice Scarf still outspeeds revenge killers such as Sawk and Rotom-S or Rotom-F
    • Hazard support is enjoyed by Simipour to soften the opponent's team
    • Torrent is the ability used as it's legal and Gluttony serves no use on this set
    • Fighting-types such as Sawk or Primeape may make good partners to break the special walls such as Lickilicky that may wall Simipour.
    [Other Options]

    • Simipour has a usable Attack stat, and usable physical moves such as Waterfall, Ice Punch, and Superpower
    • Flying Gem Acrobatics can be used to surprise Ludicolo or Jynx which would generally take anything Simipour throws at it
    • Hone Claws and Work Up are alternative boosting moves Simipour can use
    [Checks and Counters]

    • Mantine is easily a top-notch counter to Simipour, taking little damage from anyone of its attacks due to Mantine's typing and Special Defense. Mantine mist be wary of the rare Hidden Power Electric though
    • Ludicolo is another solid check, failing to be KO'd by a +2 Ice Beam after SR, it can setup Rain Dance and take down Simipour
    • Jynx is a solid check, being immune to Water, and being able to take a +2 Hidden Power Grass and Lovely Kiss Simipour. Jynx may not be able to do much back if it lacks an attack other than Ice Beam
    • The bulky special walls of the tier, most notably Lickilicky, Munchlax, and Audino are capable of taking a hit. Munchlax and Lickilicky can also phaze it out
    • Regice is another bulky special wall that can take a hit and hit back hard with a Thunderbolt
    • Roselia makes a decent check, but it may not always survive a +2 Ice Beam or two unboosted Ice Beam after Stealth Rock.
    • Choice Scarf users such as Sawk, Primeape, and Rotom-S or Rotom-F can revenge kill the Nasty Plot set, but must be wary of Choice Scarf and SubSalac
    • Fast Electric-types, namely Electrode and Zebstrika can outspeed and KO Simipour. Both should be wary of Choice Scarf
    • Priority users, such as Mach Punch Gurdurr and Sucker Punch Skutank can take advantage of Simipour's poor bulk and prevent it from achieving a sweep
  2. ium

    ium dein haar riecht gut
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    page search, and no munchlax or regice. those should definitely be listed as counters to most sets, and checks to the nasty plot set at the very least. lickilicky also needs a spot in c&c although i see you mentioned it in ac.

    also, just make note of the fast electric-types in general, like electrode and zebstrika, in c&c because they're huge checks to simipour.

    i agree that hidden power electric is less relevant, so i'm not sure if it needs a slash. however, hidden power electric needs a mention in the ac of the first set too. because of that, just make sure you mention how mantine needs to be wary of that in c&c.

    why is gorebyss a good offensive partner for simipour? i don't exactly see the reason so perhaps you could elaborate on that, but there are definitely better things you could list as partners like ground-types to prevent easy volt switching.

    just be clear on the item correspondence when talking about using a modest nature; this is for choice scarf i'm assuming.

    i'm really zoned out rn so i'm sure i missed a lot, but those are the biggest things that stand out.
  3. Hollywood

    Hollywood 12/10 personality
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    hi, Simipour wrecks, good stuff.

    [SET] (Nasty Plot)

    • For evs, add a slash after HP. It should look like this: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. Though I'm sure you just missed that slash.

    [SET COMMENTS] (Nasty Plot)

    • Note that Simipour outspeeds a lot of notable threats including Primeape, Charizard, Sawsbuck, etc, all of which it can beat. You mentioned it has a good Speed tier, but I'd like to see a couple of specific examples of what it can beat thanks to its great Speed.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Nasty Plot)

    • You can cut the mention of the purpose of the EVs. It's mainly just fluff since it's obvious what max SpA and max Spe are used for.
    • On the Focus Blast mention, you said it can be used over Grass Knot rather than HP Grass. Switch to HP Grass since it's what's in your set and is the more reliable option anyways.
    • I would mention HP Electric as being usable over HP Grass. It's basically your choice on what you want to hit, Seismitoad or Mantine. Definitely keep HP Grass on the set over Electric though since Seismitoad is more dominant.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Choice)

    • Cut the EV mention again for the same reason as above.


    Sub Salac looks really good. Overall, you have a really solid, extensive skeleton, and I think you'll do great. ium's suggestions are also good. Regice and Munchlax deserve mention under C&C. And I could see Gorebyss being a great offensive partner, since both of them have similar checks and counters. You can use one to wear down the other's c&cs. Water overall is a great offensive typing. I would expand on why they are good partners in the write-up, but I like the mention of it. Go ahead and make these changes, and

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  4. meeps

    meeps

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    okay, made the changes suggested by ium and treecko
  5. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Question, wouldn't Torrent be a better ability in every set? Even in SubSalac, although getting the boost one turn earlier is cool (having 25% more health isn't that big of a deal when you consider how frail this thing is), I feel like the 50% boost to your Water-type STAB is big enough to warrant a main slash. I could also see a third coverage move (probably HP Grass) slashed with Nasty Plot, and Surf might even deserve a full slash with Hydro Pump, especially if you were to put Torrent as the main ability.

    Even though Gluttony has its uses, I think Torrent is inherently better, but you could get more input on the subject.

    Oh, also, I feel like the remaining 4 EVs should go to either one of its defensive stats instead of HP, except for the SubSalac set, of course.

    EDIT: Oh yea, I should've read that, sorry (damn GameFreak for releasing male-only DW Simis). Regarding SubSalac, then, Torrent could still get a slash if you were to put a third coverage move slashed with NP, otherwise leave it as is, and sorry, lol.
  6. Hollywood

    Hollywood 12/10 personality
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    Torrent is arguably better on Nasty Plot sets, but as meeps mentioned in the skeleton, it's not legal with Nasty Plot.
  7. tennisace

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    I tried to find nit-picky stuff but ium / treecko covered everything.

    [​IMG]

    QC 2/3
  8. meeps

    meeps

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    okay, my write-up is done
  9. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    Your overview doesn't fit the standards, after reading it I don't understand Simipour's role in the metagame. Please fix this.


    The last sentence about LO in the set comments of NP is useless.
    Teammates needs a big expansion, don't mention hazards unless you are talking about specific KOs.

    The SubSalac set is poorly written, it needs an expansion on teammates and what it does before it can go on site.

    Mention a mixed set in OO (Crunch, Acrobatics etc)


    This really just needs to be fleshed out a bit before its good to go, SubSalac is far to short and doesn't explain much at all. I'll check this again later
  10. tennisace

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    bump, what's the status of this?
  11. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    Who wants to take this over?
  12. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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  13. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    kk make another thread :) idk how to merge
  14. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    Someone archive this? :I
  15. ebeast

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