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Simisage (All-Out Attacker) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Worldtour, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    [pimg]540[/pimg]

    Thumbs up for Simisage?

    I know this Pokemon sucks generally, but there has been one set that I have used pretty effectively lately.

    This is my first indicidual set thing so if the format is wrong, I apologize.

    One more reject and this is gone though.

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Giga Drain
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe




    Why this deserves to be on-site
    • It has a decent 98 base Special Attack and a good 101 base speed, making it a good option this kind of set.
    • Its like Sceptile except a little weaker and a little slower, but Sceptile isn't in the tier so this isn't that big of a deal.
    • Leaf Storm hits really hard immediately - it also catches people off guard that expect a Nasty Plot set (which is what comes to mind when they think of a Simisage)
    • Second fastest user of Leaf Storm in the tier, but unlike Serperior it acutally hits hard. It is also a lot faster than the Pokemon in the tier that have Leaf Storm that hit harder than it.
    • Leaf Storm hits about as hard as a +2 Energy Ball/Giga Drain, but it requires no set-up.
    • Focus Blast allows it to hit the few Steel-types in the tier that resist the move.
    • Only Grass-type in the tier that can defeat Steel-types in this fashion, aside from Cacturne who is much slower. Pokemon like Probopass, Klang, and Bastiodon, who usually take Grass moves like a boss get hurt really badly.
    • Hidden Power Rock hits Fire-types really hard. Charizard is outsped by the mohawk monkey and gets OHKOed, for example.
    • Amoonguss is relavent enough to use Hidden Power Ice, even though it doesn't do much to it admittedly. Speically Bulky Altaria and other Grass-types also dislike it.
    • Giga Drain is much weaker than Leaf Storm, but it allows Simisage to use a STAB move and heal itself from Life Orb damage.
    • EVs for maximum offensive force. Timid to outspeed all those annoying base 100 Pokemon like Charizard.
    • Life Orb is also good thanks to Giga Drain healing off damage and its good coverage
    Additional comments
    • Crappy movepool - literally no other Special Attacks other than Grass Knot, but it gets all it needs.
    • Hidden Power Fire could be useful, but Steel- and Grass- types dislike its other coverage moves a lot more.
    Teammates & Counters
    • GET RID OF AMOONGUSS ABOVE ALL
    • Fire-types like Emboar and Charizard, Sap Sippers like Miltank, Psychic types like Gardevior, etc. Hypno is awesome because its a Psychic type that is immune to sleep.
    • Entry hazards are useful since usually the opponent will send their Grass-resistant Pokemon out. Garbodor can set up Spikes, and Pokemon such as Probopass can set up Stealth Rock.
    • Like I just said, Amoonguss counters it. Not even Hidden Power Ice does much to it.
    • Emboar isn't weak to Hidden Power Rock and easily OHKOs it.
    • Skuntank actually takes a fair amount from a Leaf Storm, but it can Pursuit it out, or if it stays in, hit it hard with a Sucker Punch.
    • Ninjask 4x resists Grass moves, outpseeds Simisage, and OHKOs it. Be careful of HP Rock on the switch.
    • Priority moves in general., especially Ice Shard and Sucker Punch.
  2. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    im disappointed that this hasn't received any checks yet, I find this set intriguing. I'll try it out as soon as I get steady internet back, i think HP Ice has more viability than HP Rock overall though. Only testing will tell. I'd like other QC members to check this set as well.
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Bumping. Someone else please look at this set.
  4. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
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    Just out of curiosity, why are you using Gluttony over Overgrow? In the event of it getting onto low health (Those defences though :x). You're not really using a berry so I'd much rather prefer the Overgrow boost to Giga Drain / Leaf Storm.

    EDIT - Justy realised OVergrow isn't released

    Could Expert Belt be used? seems like it has solid coverage

    Also, maybe HP Fighting (assuimng it hits anythiing significant harder?)
  5. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    I'm really unsure on this set, it isn't bad, but I think it would be better to just slash Leaf Storm with Nasty Plot on the NP set, since they play similarly (when I play with the Simi's I only boost when I know I can get a sweep). How does this play differently from the NP set to deserve its own set?
  6. MMF

    MMF Give me the strength to part this sea

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    I'm not sure why I'd use this set over NP tbh. I mean yeah it has a powerful Leaf Storm but thats really not the best move to be locked into when Amoonguss is absolutely everywhere. Not to mention it gives one of the biggest threats in the tier, SubBU Braviary, free set up. I really don't see the point of this set so unless I can be convinced of it(good reasons, logs, etc) I'm gonna have to give this set a no for the time being.

    QC Rejected 1/3

    Edit: I was told 2 rejections by razzle dazzle unless he was lying to me??!?!?!?!!!?!?!
  7. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    This set would have been more viable before Regenerator Amoonguss was released, but with it being the most popular defensive Pokemon in the tier (and it also being notoriously hard to trap and eliminate), I'm also doubting the viability of Leaf Storm over Nasty Plot. Choice Specs in particular is a terrible idea given that Simipour's STAB attack is easy to switch into, especially with Leaf Storm's drawback, and that its coverage moves are also easily exploitable (Focus Blast lets Musharna / Gardevoir set up, gives Haunter a free Sub, etc, while Hidden Power is set up fodder for a whole mess of things) . For comparison, I highly doubt even Choice Specs Sceptile would see much use in the metagame due to the plethora of both defensive and offensive responses available to it on most teams. Leaf Storm admittedly has a niche of hitting fast offensive switch-ins, that would normally be able to abuse Simisage's tendency to setup immediately, very hard. However, I don't think that's enough to warrant more than a sentence or two of discussion in OO.

    It's a shame, because I used a set very similar to this in the Winter 2011 metagame, and it was great. Sadly, the metagame has really turned against Simisage and offensive Grass-types in general. The only terribly successful candidates at the moment are Exeggutor, which has a powerful super effective STAB vs Amoonguss, and Ludicolo, which is largely known as a Water-type with a great secondary STAB option.

    I'm flat out rejecting Choice Specs, and while the Life Orb set is good, Leaf Storm is the only difference, and you can sum up the change to Simisage's playstyle in a few sentences, tops. It's worth an SCMS edit, but not much more imo.

    QC REJECTED 2/3 (I thought we needed three rejections in the past?)
  8. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Life Orb set is actually decent etc and I think playing hit-and-run is so much better than boosting mainly because NP Simisage gets equally owned by Amoonguss?

    You guys are talking about flaws of Simisage, not the flaws of this set.

    NP set has little chance to set up anyways, so why not give it an extra option of a hit-and-run play?

    Yeah if this has Specs as main option, I am giving it a reject 3/3. Only giving it a second chance for the LO set
  9. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    I agree with Amarillo. I don't think this deserves its own set, but it should be combined with Nasty Plot at the very least.

    With Amoonguss around, a boosting grass-type that can't even hurt it at +2 doesn't sound very effective. Choice Specs shouldn't be mentioned, but a LO 4 attack set is probably more effective than the NP set in this meta. I still need to test it more before knowing for sure, but please test the set before rejecting it.
  10. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Okay, I'm making Life Orb the only option here.

    If it gets merged with the NP set that's fine too tbh. I agree that they don't play that much differently.

    I see how Specs sucks now as well.
  11. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    why not just do a revamp of this analysis? i'm pretty sure we can all agree that subseed simisage is bad and a few qc members think that np and all-out-attacker should be merged. i think so too.

    the overview of the old analysis is not so great; it just talks about how simisage compares with other grass-types. it barely talks about anything else besides its high speed and nasty plot
  12. Raseri

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    I wouldn't be opposed to a Simisage revamp, it is old and needs to be written with Amoonguss in mind. If you are alright with it that would be great :) If not we can just work on this set, as it shouldn't have been rejected so quickly.
  13. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Yeah, overall I think just doing a revamp with the above set would be a good idea. Nasty Plot can either be slashed with Leaf Storm or OO material depending on your opinion. As stated, the overview needs re-doing, and the C&C needs some work as well.
  14. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Sorry about the late post.

    I guess I will try out a Revamp at Simisage - it seriously is hindered by Amoonguss and needs to be written with that in mind, but can be effective otherwise. I'm going to do a seperate thread for the revamp. When that skeleton gets this should probably be moved to L&O. But yeah I'm perfectly fine with doing a revamp.
  15. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    So if he's going for a revamp, would this be locked?
  16. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    now that the skeleton is done (i think) i'll move this

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