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Simisage [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Thatsjustpeachy, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. Thatsjustpeachy

    Thatsjustpeachy smogon的行货动物学者
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>One of three new monkeys introduced in B/W, Simisage is just as mediocre as its siblings. Being clearly outclassed in RU by Sceptile, Simisage's only hope was to thrive in NU. Unfortunately, Simisage's spot as a strong and speedy Grass-type is still highly contested in NU: Serperior has higher speed, more bulk, and a more diverse movepool than Simisage. However, Simisage's offensive coverage is better than Serperior's and it still has more than enough Speed to outrun most of NU. Simisage also has higher offensive stats, and when you combine that with Nasty Plot, you've found yourself a dangerous sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Energy Ball
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Simisage's most powerful set and what seperates it from most other Grass-types in NU. Simisage gets Nasty Plot, a move that all special sweepers wish they had. This instantly makes Simisage a deadly sweeper, as Nasty Plot raises its Special Attack by two stages. Simisage also has the coverage to abuse the boost; unfortunately, its strongest reliable STAB move has only 80 base power. Focus Blast is a good coverage move to have so Simisage can take out most Steel-type Pokemon that can tank its Grass-type attack. Last but not least, a Hidden Power rounds out the set with added coverage: Hidden Power Ice and Rock will both target Flying-types which often switch in on Simisage. Hidden Power Ice is the preferred choice, as you will be guarenteed to at least speed tie with opposing Simisage, Simisear, and Simipour. It also allows Simisage to deal a lot of damage to other Grass- and Dragon-types. Hidden Power Rock, on the other hand, will help against Fire- and Bug-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb provides much needed power for Simisage, as the primary STAB move for this set only has 80 base power. Leaf Storm could be used to provide more immediate power but it will basically negate the effects of Nasty Plot and hinder a potential sweep. Potential partners for Simisage include Miltank, Camerupt, and Probopass; Miltank can handle the super effective Fire- and Ice-type moves aimed at Simisage and provide paralysis and Heal Bell support. Camerupt and Probopass both offer good defensive synergy, while being able to set up Stealth Rock as well. Probopass can also offer Thunder Wave support to give Simisage more chances to set up. If you choose to run Hidden Power Rock, it is wise to run another sweeper that can take out Dragon- and Grass-types. Jynx is a good offensive candidate due to its ability to take out both of these types and offer sleep support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Taunt
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is fairly similar to Serperior's SubSeed set, but trades off bulk for more firepower. Since Simisage has a 101 base Speed, max Speed EVs are required to maintain its advantage over base 100s. With maximum Special Attack EVs, Simisage can actually deal some damage, rather than just relying on Substitute and Leech Seed. Energy Ball can be used to deal consistent damage but the lack of power is really noticeable. If you plan on having Simisage do more than SubSeed, Leaf Storm is recommended as a good hit and run move. For the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Ice are the primary options to hit Grass-types, who are immune to Leech Seed. Hidden Power Fire also gives Simisage a way to deal some damage to Steel- and Bug-types, who would otherwise completely wall it. Hidden Power Ice, however, allows Simisage to break through Dragon- and Flying-types more easily. Taunt shouldn't be overlooked either, as it can prevent Simisage from being phazed and stop the opponent from healing.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you run Taunt, it is wise to pack a Fire-type, such as Camerupt, Rapidash, or Emboar, to take Ice- and Fire-type moves aimed at Simisage and destroy opposing Grass-types, as the lack of a Hidden Power leaves Simisage completely walled by Grass-types. A SubSeed set really appreciates entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, due to the ability of this set to force switches. Having Toxic Spikes also gives a way for Taunt Simisage to beat opposing Grass-types that are not part Poison. Garbodor can set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes, while removing Toxic Spikes on your side of the field at the same time. Camerupt offers a good Fire-type resistance for Simisage and can also set up Stealth Rock. Probopass resists Ice-type attacks, offers paralysis support, and can also set up Stealth Rock. Simisage also has the option to run HP EVs instead of Special Attack EVs so that its Substitutes can withstand weaker attacks, but Serperior would run a bulkier set much better.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Simisage doesn't really have many other effective sets. Nasty Plot is the best way for Simisage to deal major damage but since it has Work Up and an identical base Attack stat, a mixed set is possible. Simisage gets Seed Bomb, Acrobatics, Brick Break, and Rock Slide on the physical side, but it pretty much offers the same coverage as the Nasty Plot set with just weaker power since the EVs will be split between Special Attack and Attack. A Choice item set is an option, but once your opponent catches on to it, Simisage just becomes set-up bait. The Nasty Plot set offers more power and flexibility after one boost, so Choice Specs is an inferior option. A Choice Scarf set just doesn't have the power for revenge killing. GrassWhistle can cripple the opposing Pokemon, but the low accuracy is just not worth it. However, it might be able to work with a Hone Claws set, but it is quite gimmicky and has fairly bad coverage. </p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Depending on the Hidden Power it carries, Simisage will have different checks and counters. However, all counters should get in quickly when facing the Nasty Plot set. Simisage running Hidden Power Rock are countered by most Grass-types that have some way of dealing with Simisage. Vileplume and Exeggutor can both hit Simisage for a lot of damage and they don't take much damage from Hidden Power Rock. Altaria and Mantine can shrug off an unboosted Hidden Power Rock but, if Simisage is at +2 Special Attack, a Timid Simisage has a very good chance of 2HKOing Mantine without Stealth Rock support and will automatically 2HKO Altaria. Simisage with Hidden Power Ice can be handled by Shuckle and Mantine. Both can easily use Toxic and outstall Simsiage. If Vileplume is healthy, it can come in before Simisage gets a boost in and force it out by threatening it with Sludge Bomb. Even Altaria can switch into a resisted move and survive an unboosted Hidden Power Ice. Muk is the best option to wall Simisage since it stops all Nasty Plot sets with its high Special Defense, and can counter with a Posion-type move. The SubSeed set can be easily shut down by Murkrow and Volbeat, who can both stop Simisage with Prankster Taunt and Encore, respectively. Duosion is immune to Leech Seed and can set up on the SubSeed set easily. Vileplume and Sap Sipper Miltank can handle any attacking moves that SubSeed Simisage has with their great bulk and reliable recovery, while being immune to Leech Seed at the same time. When it comes to revenge killing, faster opponents and Choice Scarf Pokemon can beat Simisage easily due to its frail defenses.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Overgrow will be more useful than Gluttony for the extra power Simisage's Grass-type moves get when it finds itself on low health. However, when the pinch berries are released, Gluttony will have some use.</p>
  2. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    I think the offensive spread should get the nod over the defensive one for the Sub Seed set, since Simisage's Subs aren't surviving much regardless of investment, and Simisage needs the extra power behind its attacks to be effective outside of annoying. Plus the lower HP stat would make Simisage's Substitutes cheaper in relation to Leech Seed's recovery.
  3. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ugh, I hope you have been testing Choice Specs, since it sucked so bad in RU. Choice Scarf is even worse. I would also deslash Leaf Storm from the NP set. Simisage has trouble setting up twice. Also, SubSeed is one word.
  4. ZombieRa

    ZombieRa

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    Why would you run a LO on the Nasty Plot set, when you are running gluttony? It gives you no advantage, as you don't lose a LO at half health. I'd go with overgrow, so that when the LO brings you down to that range, you will be getting an extra boost towards your stab, which could aid you in winning the match. Or if you are going to use gluttony, go with a Salac Berry, so that you will have a boost in speed, plus the Nasty Plot boost that you should have already used.
  5. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    @ZombieRa
    The reason the Overgrow ability and pinch berries cannot be used is because they havent been released yet, thats why they are in the Dream World section
  6. ZombieRa

    ZombieRa

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    If its not released, then why would you still post a set that's going to lead you to failure? His defenses are so low, that after you use Nasty Plot, you are going to be at least in the yellow, as long as it isn't NVE. Then the LO is just gonna take you out. It says that Nasty Plot can turn it into a "dangerous sweeper," but not if you are just going to kill yourself.
  7. SuperJOCKE

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    NP Simisage is good. I never, ever found myself on "yellow" health when I used it in RU. It can survive attacks.
  8. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    The point of a setup sweeper is to boost up when the opponent switches out.
    Eg.
    You switch Simisage in on a weakened Slowking that uses Scald
    Now your opponent knows that you can easily finish off Slowking so he decides to switch out
    On the turn he switches out, set up a Nasty Plot
    OR
    Your opponent stays in to Scald, doing 20%...
  9. ZombieRa

    ZombieRa

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    I understand how setup sweepers work, and your Slowking example is excellent. However, that's just one example. I'm thinking more long-term, and it just seems to me that a LO is just wasting you Simisage's HP, when you are already setting up your (Special) Attack strength. Especially on a Simisage, with no other means of recovery, other than rest. IMO, a Sitrus Berry would be a better choice with Gluttony, or at least Leftovers.

    And yeah, I may have *slightly* overexaggerated the damage Simisage would be taking, but it was just to get a point across. You may be taking damage from your opponent when you set up, so why assist in beating yourself up in the process?
  10. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Life Orb gives power, and Simisage is no powerhouse, even with the Nasty Plot boost it needs Life Orb to get that extra power that could score some KOs. Simisage doesnt mind the HP lost from Life Orb as it is not meant to last that long. Either it sweeps your opponent or it dies.
  11. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    That's your standard Leftovers vs Life Orb argument. You definitely can use whichever you want, but Life Orb is generally the preferred item on sweepers unless proven otherwise. Simisage's bulk is nothing to write home about and salvaging it isn't going to do much; I'd rather just use LO and hit as hard as I can for as long as I can. It's a pity Simisage doesn't get Giga Drain, but eh.
  12. ZombieRa

    ZombieRa

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    Yeah, I guess it's really all up to preference. I think LO would be more sensible if you were bringing him into RU, when he already stands higher than about 89% of his respective tier in Special Attack. But, maybe that's just me.
  13. Zebraiken

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    You've got to imagine that he's just as effective if not better in NU, where power levels are significantly lower. ;(
  14. Thatsjustpeachy

    Thatsjustpeachy smogon的行货动物学者
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    After testing the choice set i'll move it into other options in a moment. Even with the right predicts it won't KO stuff like altaria and by then they know its choice specs so its easy to predict around. Scarf just doesn't work at all.
  15. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    Energy Ball > Leaf Storm on SubSeed, generally SubSeed sets are used to stall, and Leaf Storm is outdamaged pretty quickly by Energy Ball. Also right now you said you don't have SpA EVs on the SubSeed set but you do so I'm pretty confused?

    Also change the order of EVs on the NP set, EVs should be HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe. Mention that HP Rock drops you a point in speed, which I think makes you tie with +Spe Base 100s instead of outspeeding them.

    Take out Plant Cloak Wormadam (wtf) from counters. Add Roselia to checks/counters.
  16. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Nah, you still outspeed base 100s by one point even with HP Rock - but I think HP Ice should still be the main slash. What KOs does Rock actually achieve?
  17. ZombieRa

    ZombieRa

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    Agreed. Ive went with ice since I made the Nasty Plot set, and it's saved me the battle a few times, where rock would have gone awry.
  18. BlackBird

    BlackBird

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    A set I thought I created but was apparently used before me was a hone claws set. Basically it uses hone claws to increase physical power and takes advantage of the accuracy boost by using grasswhistle. Its a really nifty set.
  19. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Surprisingly, that doesn't sound too awful, but it's pretty gimmicky - OO material.

    You might want to mention extra bulk in the AC of the SubSeed set instead of SpA.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much OK.

    [​IMG]
  20. Omicron

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    I personally wouldn't run bulk since Simisage benefits from a lower HP stat but anyways,

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  21. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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  22. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    The physical attacker set from the other thread is probably going to get rejected, so it'd probably be worth mentioning how different physical attacks help Simisage get better coverage on the things it lures in. Rock Slide beats Cryogonal and Jynx, Crunch kills Haunter as it switches in, just little things like that. Mention how these would only be used on a separate set, as the others are too crowded for physical options to be of any use at all.
  23. Thatsjustpeachy

    Thatsjustpeachy smogon的行货动物学者
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    Finally ready for GP checks after my internet kept quitting out on me. Much rage, so much rage
  24. Danilo

    Danilo
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    AM GP AM GP GO
    STATUS: Done

  25. RitterCat

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    Sir, the changes you made were quite good, but there were a lot of changes I would have made that weren't there, sorry :/
    Okay I only have a c/p version of my check, sorry
    c/p (open)


    [Overview]

    <p> One of three new monkeys introduced in B/W, Simisage is just as mediocre as its siblings. Being clearly outclassed in RU by Sceptile, Simisage's only hope was to thrive in NU. Unfortunately, Simisage's spot as a strong and speedy Grass-type is still highly contested in NU: Serperior has higher speed, more bulk, and a more diverse movepool than Simisage. However, Simisage's attack coverage is better than Serperior's and it still has more than enough Speed to outrun most of NU. Simisage also has higher offensive stats, and when you combine that with Nasty Plot, you've found yourself a dangerous sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Energy Ball
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid/Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Simisage's most powerful set and what seperates it from the other Grass-types in NU. Simisage gets Nasty Plot, a move that all special sweepers wish they had. This instantly makes Simisage a deadly sweeper, as it raises its Special Attack by two stages. Simisage also has the coverage to abuse the boost; unfortunately, its strongest reliable STAB move is only 80 base power. Focus Blast is a good coverage move to have so you can take out most Steel-type Pokemon that can tank your Grass-type attack. Last but not least, a Hidden Power rounds out the set with added coverage:. Hidden Power Ice and Rock will both target Flying-types which often switch in on Simisage. Hidden Power Ice is the preferred choice, as you will be guarenteed to outspeed Pokemon with base 100 Speed and a positive nature. It also allows Simisage to deal a lot of damage other Grass- and Dragon-types. Hidden Power Rock, on the other hand, will help against Fire- and Bug-types.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb provides much needed power for Simisage, as the primary STAB move for this set only has 80 base power. Leaf Storm could be used to provide more immediate power but it will negate the effects of Nasty Plot and hinder a potential sweep. Potential partners for Simisage include Miltank, Camerupt, and Probopass; Miltank can handle the super effective Fire- and Ice-type moves aimed at Simisage and provide paralysis and Heal Bell support. Camerupt and Probopass both offer good defensive synergy while being able to set up hazards as well. Probopass can also offer Thunder Wave support to give Simisage more chances to setup. If you choose to run Hidden Power Rock, it is wise to run another sweeper that can take out Dragon-types and Grass-types. Jynx would be a good offensive candidate due to its ability to take out both typings and offer Sleep support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Taunt
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is fairly similar to Serperior's SubSeed set, but trades off bulk for more firepower. Since Simisage has a 101 base Speed, max Speed EVs are required to maintain its speed creep over base 100s. With maximum Special Attack EVs, Simisage can actually deal some damage, rather than just relying on Substitute and Leech Seed. Energy Ball can be used to deal consistent damage but the lack of power is really noticeable. If you plan on having Simisage do more than SubSeed, Leaf Storm is recommended as a good hit and run move. For the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Ice are the primary options to hit Grass-types, who are immune to Leech Seed. Hidden Power Fire also gives Simisage a way to deal some damage to Steel- and Bug-types, who would otherwise completely wall it. Hidden Power Ice, however, allows you to break through Dragon- and Flying-types more easily. Taunt shouldn't be overlooked either as it can prevent Simisage from being phazed away and stop the opponent from healing.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> If you run Taunt, it is wise to pack a Fire-type, such as Camerupt, Rapidash, or Emboar, to take the Ice- and Fire-type aimed at Simisage and destroy opposing Grass-types, as the lack of a Hidden Power leaves you completely walled by Grass-types. A SubSeed set really appreciates hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, due to the ability of this set to force switches. Having Toxic Spikes also gives a way for Taunt Simisage to beat opposing Grass-types that are not part Poison. Garbodor can set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes while removing Toxic Spikes on your side of the field at the same time. Camerupt offers a good Fire-type resistance for Simisage and can also set up Stealth Rock. Probopass resists Ice-typed attacks, offers paralysis support, and can also set up Stealth Rock. Simisage also has the option to run HP EVs instead of Special Attack EVs so that its Substitutes can live weaker attacks, but Serperior would run a bulkier set much better.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Simisage doesn't really have many other effective sets. Nasty Plot is the best way for Simisage to deal major damage but since it has Work Up and an identical base Attack stat, a mixed set is possible. Simisage gets Acrobatics, Brick Break, and Rock Slide on the physical side but it pretty much offers the same coverage as the Nasty Plot set with just weaker power since the EVs will be split between Special Attack and Attack. A Choice item set is an option, but once your opponent catches on to it, Simisage just becomes set up bait. The Nasty Plot set offers more power and flexibility after one boost, so Choice Specs is an inferior option. A Choice Scarf set just doesn't have the power for revenge killing. GrassWhistle can cripple the opposing Pokemon but the accuracy is just not worth it. However, it might be able to work with a Hone Claws set but it is quite gimmicky and has fairly bad coverage. </p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Depending on the Hidden Power, Simisage will have different checks and counters. However, all counters should get in quickly when facing the Nasty Plot set. Simisage running Hidden Power Rock are countered by most Grass-types that have some way of dealing with Simisage. Vileplume and Exeggutor can both hit Simisage for a lot of damage and they don't take much damage from Hidden Power Rock. Altaria and Mantine can shrug off an unboosted Hidden Power Rock but if Simisage is at +2 Special Attack, a Timid Simisage has a very good chance of 2HKOing Mantine without Stealth Rock support and will automatically 2HKO Altaria. Those with Hidden Power Ice can be handled by Shuckle and Mantine. Both can easily use Toxic and outstall Simsiage. If Vileplume is healthy, it can come in before Simisage gets a boost in and force it out by threatening it with Sludge Bomb. Even Altaria can switch into a resisted move and survive an unboosted Hidden Power Ice. Muk is the best option to wall Simisage since it stops all Nasty Plot sets with its high Special Defense and can counter with a Posion-type move. The SubSeed set can be easily shut down by Murkrow and Volbeat, who can both stop Simisage with Prankster Taunt and Encore. Duosion is immune to Leech Seed and can set up on the SubSeed set easily. Vileplume and Miltank with Sap Sipper can handle any attacking moves that SubSeed Simisage has with their great bulk and reliable recovery, while being immune to Leech Seed at the same time. When it comes to revenge killing, faster and Choice Scarf Pokemon can beat Simisage easily due to its frail defenses.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Overgrow would be more useful for extra power on Grass-type moves when Simisage finds itself on low health. However, when pinch berries are released Gluttony will have some use.</p>

    [​IMG] GP 1/2

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