1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Matthew, Nov 4, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,140
    Celebi is an excellent check, coming in on nearly all of their movesets (bar X-Scissor, and even that doesn't 1HKO), Thunder Waving to cripple, and KOing with Psychic.
  2. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Okay thanks, but what about a non-legendary is a good check to Choice Scarf Terrakion and Swords Dance Breloom?
  3. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Without raising an eyebrow to the non-legendary part of your question, I think Toxicroak is a pretty good bet. Whilst Breloom can still beat it if it puts it to Sleep with Spore, Toxicroak resists both of their respective STAB moves, and can hit them hard in return with Drain Punch/Ice Punch.
  4. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    But wouldn't earthquake from Terrakion be the end of Toxicroak?
  5. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    no terrak in its right mind would lock itself into earthquake if it was choiced; in fact no choiced terrak should be running earthquake at all - see my longass post 2 pages ago
  6. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    787
    Physically defensive metagross can also deal with the two of them.

    252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 118-139 (32.41 - 38.18%) -- 2.05% chance to 3HKO

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 168-199 (46.15 - 54.67%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO

    Meta is cool because it has supereffective coverage on the both of them

    Show Hide
    alternatively you could just use Celebi which easily walls the both of them
  7. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Physically defensive Metagross is pretty much 2HKOed after Spikes. Despite this, without Atk you cannot 2HKO even the frailest Breloom with Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt. That's not very good for a defensive mon without recovery and I find Metagross generally lacking these days.
    It's cool though, I give you that.

    Celebi really is the best one. Bulky Toxicroak can be OHKOed by SR and three hits of +2 Bullet Seed. The offensive Toxicroak can outrun Breloom but is likely to get 2HKOed by Terrakion's Close Combat after SR - unless is is raining.
  8. TheSuperSaiyanBreloom

    TheSuperSaiyanBreloom

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    86
    hi i find that keldeo is a very big threat to my team and idk what to replace to counter/check him. my team is tyranitar, rp landorus, sp.def rotom-w, tech breloom, physical def skarmory, and scarf terrakion
  9. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    180
    You could try celebi > Breloom, as they are both grass types and celebi handles keldeo quite well (especially the specially defensive variant) but normal variants should handle it pretty well.

    Latias is another mon that can handle anything keldeo throws at it. Especially the timid max speed/max HP variants with psyshock.
  10. jackm

    jackm

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    340
    They don't share a counter (to my knowledge) but...

    Scarf Terrakion-->Gliscor/Landorus-T
    Breloom-->Tornadus-T
  11. hotcoldyay

    hotcoldyay

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    174
    Should I give Togekiss 252 HP or 248 HP? I was looking at it and found the analysis said 252, but then its hp would be even, so it could only switch into SR 4 instead of 5 times.
  12. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    The numbers you want to avoid with Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock are those divisible by 4, not 2 (because they lose 1/4 of their HP when they switch in rounded down, not 1/2). Togekiss has 374 max HP, which isn't divisible by 4 (374/4 = 93.5). As a result, you can max out its HP without having to worry about Stealth Rock (just be sure not to give it 244 HP EVs or another number that will give it HP divisible by 4).
  13. BlankZero

    BlankZero
    is a Tutor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,837
    What kind of spread should I run on a double dance Scizor set with BP and Bug Bite, and what would make good partners? Heatran obviously for fire, maybe Lati@s?
  14. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    I would say max speed / max attack, unless you are using a rain team and want Scizor to be able to withstand a hit or two. Use the honko calculator to check how much the special threats to your current team do and find a good benmarch.

    For partners, obviously something that can remove pokes that resist your 2 STABs. Dugtrio deals with Heatran very well, and then you'd need something that could reliably take out Jellicent and Skarmory, as well as other physical walls like Hippo. Specs Gothithelle can dispose of Skarmory (or at least bring down to sturdy) and cripple Hippo pretty well with either Psychic or Trick, and Jellicent that don't pack Shadow Ball will get mauled by Specs Thunderbolt.
  15. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Double Dance on Scizor is rather .. awkward, at least when you do not Baton Pass. Scizor needs its STABs in order to funktion as a sweeper but that does not leave you room for Superpower, necessary for Heatran and Magnezone.
    If you REALLY must, Jolly 252/252 for you; you need the extra speed to outrun Scarf-Mence and Scarf-Lando.
    As for teammates, take the usual ones plus those who can take on Magnezone, Heatran and Skarmory. Dugtrio and Magnezone are already suggested, Rotom-W also does its job.
  16. hotcoldyay

    hotcoldyay

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    174
    ok thanks for that :)

    and one more question. my team uses genesect to counter lots of stuff, but it just got banned. my team has CM latias, CM reuniclus, Def Skarmory, SDef Heatran, and SDef Gastrodon. I don't know how I'll counter the threats to my team like the therian forms, dragons (especially scarfed), and keldeo to an extent. Is there any replacement for genesect that can do the job almost as well and cover those threats and others i may have not mentioned?
  17. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Ice, more Ice, Psychic, dragon resistance, - it looks like a job for Jirachi. It is faster than the therian forms and as fast as Salamence, resists dragon and has way more HP than Genesect.

    The Scarf one (252/252) is similar to Genesect, a bit weaker, but funtions well enough. It has enough power to OHKO Mence with Ice Punch. It struggles a bit against Gliscor though so be prepared to U-Turn a lot, unless you are Adamant. Iron Head is suggested, but if you are willing to take a loss in accuracy, Zen Headbutt checks both Terrakion and Keldeo at the cost of Kyurem-B (they rarely come in anyway, because they expect Iron Head).

    Otherwise, a bulky Water like Jellicent can check these apart from Thundurus-T, for which you hopefully have Gastrodon alive. Ferrothorn too, just watch out for Landorus and Keldeo.
  18. BlankZero

    BlankZero
    is a Tutor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,837
    Dugtrio with Sash and Reversal?

    Gothitelle is an interesting suggestion too. I'll have to look into that. I do find Breloom to be a fantastic Jellicent check though.

    It is a strange set, but I am thinking it will do fairly well with the proper support.
  19. The Dark Hero

    The Dark Hero

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Is it viable to run Icy Wind on Tornadus-T?
  20. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    hp ice is generally better because of the power. you outspeed most things anyway and few common scarfers will switch blind on tornadus-T - the ones that would (eg scarf jirachi can eat a hurric), you can't break through with nadus anyway and you'll just be hard switching/uturning out. the only version of tornadus-T that could even run icy wind is LO and the fourth slot there is generally better spent on taunt/rain dance/etc
  21. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,361
    Scarf Latios can deal with all those threats and is an easy replacement of CM Latias. CM Reuniclus and CM Latias have large overlapping roles and are stopped by very similar Pokemon. Honestly, CM Reuniclus is not the best sweeper to use in this metagame, so I would suggest a different Pokemon over it (possibly CM Keldeo to take out Tyranitar).
  22. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    You'd rather not. It only makes a difference at Gliscor and offensive Dragonite.
    Gliscor should get the hell out, when it sees you coming in because Hurricane hurts its long-livety.
    Dragonite can be KOed with SR and Hurricane. The difference is that if you haven't broken Multiscale, neither move will OHKO it. At +1 Ape and Atk, Dragonite will outspeed you and OHKO you with Dragon Claw/Outrage. So if for some reason they decide to setup on you, Icy Wind will drop its speed and allows you to KO it - expect ExtremeSpeed to hit you though.

    In short: If you have confidence in keeping up SR, there won't be any need for it. If not, you still have to decide whether another support move like Taunt or Rain Dance is better.
  23. hotcoldyay

    hotcoldyay

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    174
    Thanks for the answer. I think i might try jirachi. I feel like jellicent and ferrothorn might overlap with skarm and gastrodon, but ill see if they might work too.

    Thanks for the feedback. I never thought of scarf latios... I guess its time to thrown him into my team! ^_^ Regarding cm reuniclus, its always been kind of a safety cushion for my team, but i think it might be time to let it go and fill it with keldeo. Is there any pokemon that can fill in the last spot with the current team? (scarf latios, sdef heatran and gastro, def skarm, cm keldeo) i was thinking either someing offensive or a support pokemon, but im unsure what other role needs to be fulfilled in my team.
  24. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    When running a Scarfed Terrakion, would it be wise to choose an Adamant nature over Jolly?
  25. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    You loose the jump over neutral Venusaur in sun, +2 Cloyster, +1 Landorus, +1 base 100 (Salamence, Jirachi, Volcanora), and Scarf Hydreigon, Haxorus, Kyurem. Long list, you see.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)