1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Matthew, Nov 4, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,303
    As far as PO scores go, I think 1400-1500 is pretty good? At least in Ubers on PO, I peaked around #80 at like 1450ish.
    Also, do you mean PS! or PO? ON PS!, ACREs are good around 1900 (lets say 1882 though cuz that's where I am :P)
  2. BettaOffDead

    BettaOffDead

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Why do people hate on infernape so much on here?
  3. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    647
    I play PO all the time so i can give you a truthful answer. First, the top 40 were the people between 1550 - 1650. But...the ladder reset a week or two ago so now the top 40 are 1450 - 1560.

    Now, if you want to know if you are decent RIGHT NOW, if you have more than 1400 you can be considered as a good player. The ladder is going to reset again anyways because of the Genesect + Sand Veil suspect, so laddering right now is kinda worthless.
    (The top 40 are the first page on the ladder and are usually considered as the best)
  4. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Infernape isn't that great of a Pokemon. It has a good boosting move in Nasty Plot, but other than that, there's nothing outstanding about it. It's a moderately good sun sweeper, but not a great one. It has a very, very small niche.
  5. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,303
    Infernape has paper-thin defenses and mediocre offensive stats. Furthermore, more pokemon with base 108 Speed (Terrakion and Keldeo) came out, with MUCH better offenses and STAB combinations. Lastly, like it or not, BW2 is a metagame dominated by Rain, and that leaves our precious ape with only its Fighting-type STAB, and BW introduced TONS of fighting types with better attacking stats and better STABS.

    @ fire r a g e
    If you want to complete a FWG core, I think that Heatran is the way to go. (I don't think Infernape would be your best choice for a Fire type.) Sunny Day Heatran in particular, because you're running a weatherless team, and Rain is by far the most threatening/dominant weather. Therefore, if you can kill the opposing weather starter as you said with Scarf Gengar, (maybe Sash Gengar btw? idk b/c if you use Destiny Bond and they don't KO you, they sure as hell aren't going to keep attacking) you can change the weather to something more suitable and eventually, you'll have clear skies, where weatherless obviously shines. (There's no point in trapping their weather starter if their weather is going to stay there permanently and give them the edge.) Furthermore, Heatran is a fairly good check to Sun teams, which are clearly a threat as well to weatherless. However, I don't use Heatran anymore (I used him back during BW but after BW2 I shifted to RAIN) so someone else should help you with the moveset. A defensive EV spread would probably be best, possibly the Specially Defensive set in the analysis with Sunny Day somewhere in there? He also has pretty good defensive synergy with the rest of your team (EXCEPT for a bit of a fighting weakness). For changing the weather, either this Heatran or maybe run Hail on Starmie? It's a bit unorthodox, but weatherless teams REALLY appreciate some way to change the weather.

    Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong/this sucks balls because I don't want to give bad advice :O.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,338
    People hate on Infernape because it doesn't work too well in weather teams. He obviously can't be used in a rain team. It usually isn't used in a sand team as there are better Choice Scarf and Choice Band users, such as Choice Scarf Landours, Stoutland (which acts as a scarfer) and Choice Band Terrakion, and it has difficulty using a LO set because it will be worn down very fast from LO and sandstorm damage. Infernape's best bet is in sun teams, where it can be a powerful scarfer with good coverage, Speed and U-turn, a powerfull wallbreaker with Nasty Plot, or a straight up attacker. But it still has trouble fitting on many sun teams, because sun teams are already very pressed for slots, and the usual Fire-type powerhouses of such teams are Volcarona and Victini. Infernape can be used in weatherless teams too, but you have to accept the fact that once every five games your Infernape will lose one of its STABs.

    However, Infernape is still a very powerful and difficult to wall Pokemon under sun, and even outside of sun it can still break walls with some team support (CB Tyranitar to eliminate Latias, Starmie, Jellicent) and even clean weakened offensive teams with the help of Iron Fist Mach Punch. If you pick Infernape for the right reasons, and to do things in which he is not outclassed, then he will rarely dissapoint.
  7. BlackLight

    BlackLight

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    630
    Sorry, I did mean the ACRE, didn't remember what to call it again. I guess 1800 is decent, then?
  8. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,303
    I hope this isn't like the stupidest question ever, but when you type /rank, what do ACRE, GXE, and Glicko2 mean?
  9. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    544
    @ fire r a g e
    I think that heatran is definitely the best fire type in ou thanks to its versatility and typing. If you want more of an offensive threat you could try volcarona but i generally don't like using it with starmie as the spinner, especially life orb starmie because it really isn't too bulky and you need to make sure you have rocks off the field when using volc.

    On the other hand though heatran runs a specially defensive set quite well and can also provide rock support. i would something like this:
    heatran @ air balloon/leftovers
    calm nature
    248 hp/ 252 spdef/ 8 speed
    lava plume
    stealth rock
    roar
    toxic/protect

    however after this you are quite weak to keldeo (especially hp ghost variants) and breloom so you might prefer volcarona as he can handle these threats better. otherwise i would just try to address those weaknesses with your next slot (maybe lati@s or celebi).

    Also the set i would recommend for volcarona if you decided to use it would be the chesto resto set
    Volcarona @ chesto berry
    modest nature
    160 hp/ 252 sp att/ 96 speed
    quiver dance
    rest
    fire blast/ fiery dance
    bug buzz
  10. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    acre and glicko2 are systems of rating users (or to be more accurate, estimating their rating). GXE is a statistical system made by x-act that estimates your odds of beating the "average" player given your current glicko

    for more explanation on how these systems work or their statistical basis, go look at antar's post in somgon metagames about weighted stats, or look them up on wikipedia
  11. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
  12. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Forever childish.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    972
    I'm in the process of building a team with Ebelt Infernape and I'm struggling finding a member that rounds out the team. It's still in the first draft of it so I havent tested it yet just picking out members.

    My team thus far is EBelt Infernape, Leftovers Starmie, Defensive Lando-T, LO Breloom, Specs Magnezone.

    Any Help?
  13. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,856
    add a scarf keldeo, basically covers everything you're weak to i.e. every setup sweeper. also does a nice job of checking rain offense and sand offense, preventing you from getting flat out swept by something like life orb tornadus. infernape already sort of checks sun so i'll ignore that for a while, though sun is still a big issue for your team as it is with most weatherless offense.

    keldeo @ choice scarf
    trait: justified
    evs: 252 satk / 4 sdef / 252 spd
    timid nature (+spd, -atk)
    - hydro pump
    - surf
    - secret sword
    - hidden power [ice]

    have a nice day
  14. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    240
    Will someone please read this man's sig, and tell me I'm not the only one who sees a problem here
  15. BettaOffDead

    BettaOffDead

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Is there really any point to using Deoxy-D for stealth rocks with Espeon being fairly common? Hell, more people use Espeon than Deoxys-D

    I thought about pursuit scizor but a lot of Espeon carry HP Fire
  16. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Mad, mad love
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,430
    The short answer? Yes.

    The long answer? There are plenty of reasons to use Deoxys-D, and if you aren;t using him for hazards, you really shouldn't be using him. Yeah, Espeon/Xatu are used, but their usage certainly isn't high enough to say "well guess there's no point in me using the best hazards setter in OU!" Deoxys-D is the poster child for hyper offense teams, which will usually have no problem dealing with either of these two Pokémon (and honestly, if either of them is a problem for HO teams, its Xatu, not Espeon). Not only that, but Deoxys-D can deal with Magic Bouncers by packing Skill Swap, which, while uncommon, is by no means a poor choice on him. If Espeon is really giving your team trouble, I would suggest Banded Tyranitar over Scizor (who is a better Pursuit trapper anyway), but Espeon should not discourage you from using Deoxys-D
  17. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    Do you have a usage statistic to back this up? Also, Espeon can be delt with by DeoD teams through means of U-turn Scarf Jirachi, SashGengar, Swords Dance Scizor, Weavile (see Alexwolf's team), Jellicent, etc.

    Using SR on DeoD would be one of the only reasons to use DeoD, with the other reason being Spikes
  18. BettaOffDead

    BettaOffDead

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478573

    It actually says that Espeon is 27th and that Deoxys-D is 39. And thanks for the advice.
  19. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,856
    deoxys-d is the single best hazard setter in the entire game, its bulk and survivability plus access to stealth rock, spikes, taunt, and magic coat make it easy to get two to three layers of hazards down every single time. honestly, sweating over espeon is silly, it's such an irrelevant pokemon in the current metagame that even preparing for it is a little much. if you're truly that worried about espeon, run choice band tyranitar alongside deo-d. makes for a great partner, plus you can pursuit trap any espeons you happen to encounter.
  20. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    647
    I find skill swap a better option in that case. I would run batton pass on my espeon for that matter, why to use espeon as hazard-blocker if you can get ezly trapped?
  21. TyranitarAbuser

    TyranitarAbuser

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    123
    Quick question. Why do some players dislike running two Scarfers on the same team? Is there something wrong with doing so?
  22. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast @manu 11: Arcticblast joined, gg all
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,208
    It's because Choice Scarf users are often easy to set up on. They're locked into an often ineffective move without an item to boost their attacking stats. There's nothing wrong with two users of Choice Scarf as long as you have a plan to avoid being set up on, but in general it's not a great idea.
  23. Gairyuki789

    Gairyuki789

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    126
    hello again people who make me timid, I find myself still on a long daunting serch for a sixth member for my pokemon team.

    I know people talk about pokemon roles when building a team, such as cores, supporters, screeners, etc.

    Yet the more I fight with my team I come to realise that all of them are the core given how i like to fight, going in with guns blazing from the get go with full throttle offense and go for the old fashion take em down or go down trying method.

    My problem is I need a solid special attacker for my last slot.
    Dragonite(Dragon Dance)
    Lucario(Swords Dance)
    Scizor(choice band)
    Infernape(slight mixer)
    Starmie(Special attacker)

    but I don't know who, I've tried Hydreigon enough times to the point where i blew a gasket, because no matter how much I tried, it seems that with the new moves that it can learn people have become more self aware on how to take it down easily

    I know most people would suggest using a "legendary/High grade" pokemon, but i've gotten fond of battling without using them and would prefer not too, and while yes I know people are going to tell me to ditch Lucario, Lucario and Scizor might be similar, but thier also different as to what they can hit with thier respective moves, and both along with Infernape and Starmie carried me through the four gen into this one so i'm not giving them up.

    I know this isn't exactly a simple "Question" after all that i've said, but right now i feel like i'm trying to solve an insolvable puzzle, I need a special attacker for that last slot, but who can fill it while not being a legendary/high grade pokemon?
  24. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Do don't need to expect people telling you to ditch Lucario. CB-Scizor and SD-Lucario are covering different roles, the first one as a scout and revenge killer, the latter one as a setup sweeper. When not, you are using one of then in a wrong way.
    It is much more likely that they will tell you to abadon Infernape, because it is generally outclassed by Terrakion and Keldeo outside of sun. Especially Keldeo fits in the "mixed" part because of Secret Sword.
    If you ask me, I wouldn't have another sweeper in your last slot. Your team need entry hazards in order to score a few key KOs, so my first choice would be Deoxys-D. When that one is a turn off because it is legendary, try something like Sash-Terrakion with Taunt and SR, Forretress with Volt Turn or Gliscor with Taunt, SR and U-Turn.
  25. Gairyuki789

    Gairyuki789

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    126
    ok...if i was to willing to swap Infernape out, say for a Moxie Salamence which runs a similar move spread of mostly physical moves while running only one special move, would that make the choice easier?

    I know Heatran can be used as a Stealth Rock user.

    Would that trade off be worth it?

    Last Edit: what's the best stats for a Stealth Rock Heatran? and other moves?

    I ask this cause lately i've seen someone run one with protect and roar, I don't know why since it makes no sense
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)