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Gummy

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#51
Hey, new LC player here. I understand how ev spreads are very different in LC but how important are IVS? Are they usually required for competitive teams or is it too low of a level that it won't make a major impact?
IVs are important in any competitive setting, so I'd recommend having perfect IVs unless you have a certain Hidden Power you need. This is hard to pull off on cartridge, of course, though. Since stat numbers are so small, some stats dont drop if you lower the IVs; for example, a Meowth with 31 HP IVs or 20 HP IVs has no difference; the stat stays at 20. If you're using Pokemon Showdown!, though, the only reason you wouldn't want perfect IVs is if 1. you have a particular Hidden Power, 2. you want to reduce Life Orb recoil, or 3. you want to avoid damage from Foul Play, increase the power of Gyro Ball, etc etc (both these things aren't too relevant in LC though). If you have totally garbage IVs, then yes, that will make a pretty noticeable difference in the quality of your team, but they don't need to be absolutely flawless.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#58
Why do multi hit moves hit so hard in LC?
Okay so I'm gonna be doing a lot of math-y talk here (it's not very difficult, but it might be boring to read), so I'll give you a TL;DR: rounding up damage make rolls wacky

EDIT: I'm bad, ignore this. I'm apparently wrong, Meritt linked a better post than mine

So being a math student, I've looked into this a bit and came up with the following result: the only possible way for this to happenis if damage is rounded up. It has to be, as otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. It's contradictory to other things like Speed being rounded down, but it's my only explanation. Anyway
Damage is Pokemon is calculated with a pseudo-random number generator, where it selects a value from a set of calculated number. Let's say we have a Bulky Mienfoo use U-turn on itemless Offensive Vullaby. I chose these because there are no distracting factors like STAB, type matchup, item damage modifiers, etc. This has the following rolls

(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)

As you can see, 3/16 rolls do 6 damage, 12/16 rolls do 7 damage, and 1/16 rolls do 8 damage. Now I have said that damage is rounding up, and I'll explain that a bit later, but let's assume that's true for now. Then it's very possible the rolls actually look quite different, maybe something like this:

(5.86, 5.92, 6.0, 6.08, 6.16, 6.24, 6.32, 6.4, 6.48, 6.56, 6.64, 6.72, 6.8, 6.9, 7.0, 7.08) (not the actual calculation, just random things I spew. I could figure out what it's supposed to be, but I don't feel like it)

If you round all of these up, you get the same rolls as above. What you see as that most of these rolls do slightly more damage than they would if you follow the damage calculation, ranging from 0.92 to 0 bonus damage out of nowhere. Of course, this is close to negligible, even in LC, since the not even 1 HP isn't very important. However, let's now look at a set of rolls for a multi-hit moves:

(3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)

This is Shellder's Icicle Spear on itemless Bulky Mienfoo. This roll is of course for only one hit. We see 15/16 rolls do 3 damage, and 1/16 do 4 damage. As such, the calculation could look something like this:

(2.06, 2.12, 2.18, 2.24, 2.3, 2.36, 2.42, 2.48, 2.54, 2.66, 2.72, 2.78, 2.84, 2.9, 2.96, 3.02)

Once again, this matches up with the rolls that end up happening if you round everything up, and we get anywhere between 0.98 and 0.04 bonus damage. Once again, negligible, you might say. However, keep in mind this hits 5 times and you thus get anywhere between 5*0.04 = 0.2 and 5*0.98 = 4.9 bonus damage for absolutely free. That is about 5 HP of damage out of nowhere. In higher tiers, this is also negligible. But in LC, when most things have between 20 and 25 HP, that's about 25% extra damage. On average, you still get about 3 bonus damage, which is like 15% of a common health pool, which is of course incredible. This is why multi-hit moves do such an insane amount of damage in LC but nowhere else: when you round up, you get a non-negligible amount of extra damage, meaning moves that take advantage of this (multi-hit moves) are great.

So why do I say damage rounds up? Let's assume damage rounds down for a second. The Shellder's Icicle Spear could then have the following set of rolls

(3.06, 3.12, 3.18, 3.24, 3.3, 3.36, 3.42, 3.48, 3.54, 3.66, 3.72, 3.78, 3.84, 3.9, 3.96, 4.02)

As you can see, if we round down, we LOSE damage every hit,which makes no sense whatsoever if we are trying to prove it does a higher amount of damage. So in order for this to make sense, damage MUST round up. If this is wrong, this entire explanation is wrong. As a side note, the bonus damage you gain from rounding is actually a part of the reason why LC is so offensive; when your stall mons take a fairly significant amount of extra damage every turn, they can't really stall.
 
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#59
Okay so I'm gonna be doing a lot of math-y talk here (it's not very difficult, but it might be boring to read), so I'll give you a TL;DR: rounding up damage make rolls wacky

So being a math student, I've looked into this a bit and came up with the following result: the only possible way for this to happenis if damage is rounded up. It has to be, as otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. It's contradictory to other things like Speed being rounded down, but it's my only explanation. Anyway
Damage is Pokemon is calculated with a pseudo-random number generator, where it selects a value from a set of calculated number. Let's say we have a Bulky Mienfoo use U-turn on itemless Offensive Vullaby. I chose these because there are no distracting factors like STAB, type matchup, item damage modifiers, etc. This has the following rolls

(6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)

As you can see, 3/16 rolls do 6 damage, 12/16 rolls do 7 damage, and 1/16 rolls do 8 damage. Now I have said that damage is rounding up, and I'll explain that a bit later, but let's assume that's true for now. Then it's very possible the rolls actually look quite different, maybe something like this:

(5.86, 5.92, 6.0, 6.08, 6.16, 6.24, 6.32, 6.4, 6.48, 6.56, 6.64, 6.72, 6.8, 6.9, 7.0, 7.08) (not the actual calculation, just random things I spew. I could figure out what it's supposed to be, but I don't feel like it)

If you round all of these up, you get the same rolls as above. What you see as that most of these rolls do slightly more damage than they would if you follow the damage calculation, ranging from 0.92 to 0 bonus damage out of nowhere. Of course, this is close to negligible, even in LC, since the not even 1 HP isn't very important. However, let's now look at a set of rolls for a multi-hit moves:

(3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)

This is Shellder's Icicle Spear on itemless Bulky Mienfoo. This roll is of course for only one hit. We see 15/16 rolls do 3 damage, and 1/16 do 4 damage. As such, the calculation could look something like this:

(2.06, 2.12, 2.18, 2.24, 2.3, 2.36, 2.42, 2.48, 2.54, 2.66, 2.72, 2.78, 2.84, 2.9, 2.96, 3.02)

Once again, this matches up with the rolls that end up happening if you round everything up, and we get anywhere between 0.98 and 0.04 bonus damage. Once again, negligible, you might say. However, keep in mind this hits 5 times and you thus get anywhere between 5*0.04 = 0.2 and 5*0.98 = 4.9 bonus damage for absolutely free. That is about 5 HP of damage out of nowhere. In higher tiers, this is also negligible. But in LC, when most things have between 20 and 25 HP, that's about 25% extra damage. On average, you still get about 3 bonus damage, which is like 15% of a common health pool, which is of course incredible. This is why multi-hit moves do such an insane amount of damage in LC but nowhere else: when you round up, you get a non-negligible amount of extra damage, meaning moves that take advantage of this (multi-hit moves) are great.

So why do I say damage rounds up? Let's assume damage rounds down for a second. The Shellder's Icicle Spear could then have the following set of rolls

(3.06, 3.12, 3.18, 3.24, 3.3, 3.36, 3.42, 3.48, 3.54, 3.66, 3.72, 3.78, 3.84, 3.9, 3.96, 4.02)

As you can see, if we round down, we LOSE damage every hit,which makes no sense whatsoever if we are trying to prove it does a higher amount of damage. So in order for this to make sense, damage MUST round up. If this is wrong, this entire explanation is wrong. As a side note, the bonus damage you gain from rounding is actually a part of the reason why LC is so offensive; when your stall mons take a fairly significant amount of extra damage every turn, they can't really stall.
So here's the really good math thread. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-rolls-explained.3508889/

To be fair, there's a point in the calculation where it does a ROUND (not ROUND DOWN) however this is only after LO's modifier is applied (I admit I'm not 100% sure this hasn't changed since BW but I'm pretty sure it hasn't). In cases where you're not using Life Orb, you're always rounding down, so your explanation - while it looks good - isn't quite right.

To answer the question, it's because generally you're going to be looking at a damage roll of 2,2,2,...,3 before STAB is applied if the move has even moderately acceptable base power (read: 25) and 3,3,3,...,4 after STAB, meaning that especially on low attack Pokemon you'll end up doing as just about as much with even the 2 hitter of Bullet Seed since that's 6-8 damage compared to maybe 7-9 with Seed Bomb for example. If we're talking about a higher attack user then the multihit move will do decisively less at 2 hits but then do more from 3 hits onward.
 
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#62
Quick Question about Defensive Vullaby.
Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Atk / 236 Def / 76 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn
I know Brave Bird is almost always ran on Defensive Vullaby to check Fighting-types. But what if my team already has multiple Fighting checks and the team appreciates having Knock Off, U-turn, and Defog all in one Pokemon?
 
#64
Hello, I am relatively new to LC, and I've been doing this challenge with my friends, called monoLC, or monotype LC. I keep loosing with the teams I try out, and I want to win! (cuz, you know, losing sucks). regular LC teams are easy to make, but motoypes LC teams where hard.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#65
Hello, I am relatively new to LC, and I've been doing this challenge with my friends, called monoLC, or monotype LC. I keep loosing with the teams I try out, and I want to win! (cuz, you know, losing sucks). regular LC teams are easy to make, but motoypes LC teams where hard.
What exactly is your question? If you need some help building a monotype LC team, feel free to contact me either on smogon, Discord, or PS (I go by the alt Xayahh on the last one).
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#67
Is there a battling option to get Pokemon to level 5 or do you just have to level up carefully and never use these Pokemon outside of battling?
There is in DPP, but when playing in game LC the best thing to do is super train or give your Pokémon very specific "vitamins" or battle against very specific low level mons.
 
#70
Other than obvious choices such as for SturdyJuice and Recycle strategies, what would be the general reasoning for running Berry Juice over Eviolite on certain pokemon?
 

Gummy

send typecharts
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#71
Other than obvious choices such as for SturdyJuice and Recycle strategies, what would be the general reasoning for running Berry Juice over Eviolite on certain pokemon?
For some pokemon like Snubbull, Berry Juice is popular because they get worn down really easy thanks to 1. lack of reliable recovery, and 2. the fact that they want to come in very often (to grab Intimidate boosts, because Mienfoo is so easy to get in and Snubbull checks it pretty well, etc). The solution for this is to give it some form of recovery in Berry Juice. This can work for Ferroseed and Alolan Grimer, which also get no recovery but like coming in as often as possible, whether to use Thunder Wave, Knock Off, or to absorb a resisted attack. However, for all these pokemon, Eviolite works just fine as well. The only Pokemon you probably don't want giving Berry Juice are ones that are so frail they're more likely to die than hit below 50% HP, like Diglett or Elekid. These usually just use Life Orb.
 
#73
Hi, I want to start playing LC but much prefer playing (and breeding) on 3DS - are there any/enough tournaments to keep me interested?
There isn't really a particularly big cartridge scene for LC - a few people do it but most don't due to how long it can take to get the mons there (it's a little easier now that Staryu doesn't require a gen 3 transfer).

If you ask around there's a few people who might be willing to fight on on cart, but there's a very small scene, and almost no tournaments if any. Sorry.
 
#74
I have a question (who comes from someone whose last serious LC match was back in BW):
Surskit is high-ranked as Webs setter because it has decent speed at 65, even with poor 40/32/52 bulk
Spinarak is mildly-ranked because while too slow to be useful (30), has "nice" 40/40/40 bulk

What goes for Sewaddle, who has better speed (42) AND bulk (45/70/60) than Spinarak? While its attacking stat is worse compared to other Webs users (40, versus Surskit's 50 and Spinarak's 60 - Don't get too hard into Sewaddle's 53 Atk, due to bad moveset), it has access to Giga Drain for sustain while sporting better overall bulk.

Tentaive Set:
Sewaddle @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz *EDIT: Just figured out it gets it*
- Air Slash / Hidden Power [?]

23/16/15 bulk, compared to the "bulky" 23/14/12 from Spinarak.
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#75
I have a question (who comes from someone whose last serious LC match was back in BW):
Surskit is high-ranked as Webs setter because it has decent speed at 65, even with poor 40/32/52 bulk
Spinarak is mildly-ranked because while too slow to be useful (30), has "nice" 40/40/40 bulk

What goes for Sewaddle, who has better speed (42) AND bulk (45/70/60) than Spinarak? While its attacking stat is worse compared to other Webs users (40, versus Surskit's 50 and Spinarak's 60 - Don't get too hard into Sewaddle's 53 Atk, due to bad moveset), it has access to Giga Drain for sustain while sporting better overall bulk.

Tentaive Set:
Sewaddle @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz *EDIT: Just figured out it gets it*
- Air Slash / Hidden Power [?]

23/16/15 bulk, compared to the "bulky" 23/14/12 from Spinarak.
Spinirak is a good webs setter since it can check Fighting-types and Snivy quite well, something that Surskit (and ig Sewaddle) can't do. Also Sewaddle is too slow to get webs up against most leads and has weaknesses to many, many, many common types. Surskit is fast, Spinirak checks threats to webs teams, but Sewaddle just kind of exists, making it pretty obsolete in most scenarios.