Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers / Little Cup Information

#76
I have a question (who comes from someone whose last serious LC match was back in BW):
Surskit is high-ranked as Webs setter because it has decent speed at 65, even with poor 40/32/52 bulk
Spinarak is mildly-ranked because while too slow to be useful (30), has "nice" 40/40/40 bulk

What goes for Sewaddle, who has better speed (42) AND bulk (45/70/60) than Spinarak? While its attacking stat is worse compared to other Webs users (40, versus Surskit's 50 and Spinarak's 60 - Don't get too hard into Sewaddle's 53 Atk, due to bad moveset), it has access to Giga Drain for sustain while sporting better overall bulk.

Tentaive Set:
Sewaddle @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz *EDIT: Just figured out it gets it*
- Air Slash / Hidden Power [?]

23/16/15 bulk, compared to the "bulky" 23/14/12 from Spinarak.
Spinarak has a few useful tools to add on to Sticky Webs compared to Sewaddle, for example the ability to set up Toxic Spikes as well, resisting various moves from fighting types like U-turn from Mienfoo and Sludge Wave from Croagunk, as well as not being weak to the semi-common Poison Jab or Ice Punch Timburr runs, making it a much more effective fighting type answer. It also isn't weak to the most common Hidden Power coverage of Snivy (Ice), so it provides overall more valuable defensive utility.

Sewaddle has more flat out bulk, but a less useful typing.
 
#77
So I have a little question about a certain ban. To be exact it's the ban of Vulpix. So from what I understood it was banned, because it's access to the ability "Drought" made it possible to build a metacentralizing/broken team composition aka sunteams. In other words Drought is the only reason it got banned. But Vulpix is the only mon that learned Drought to be begin with. Why did you guys ban Vulpix instead of Drought then? Like Vulpix would be probably bad afterwards but there was no reason to ban it as a whole when you could have just banned Drought without any consequences. Can someone explain this matter to me and tag me then?
 
#78
So I have a little question about a certain ban. To be exact it's the ban of Vulpix. So from what I understood it was banned, because it's access to the ability "Drought" made it possible to build a metacentralizing/broken team composition aka sunteams. In other words Drought is the only reason it got banned. But Vulpix is the only mon that learned Drought to be begin with. Why did you guys ban Vulpix instead of Drought then? Like Vulpix would be probably bad afterwards but there was no reason to ban it as a whole when you could have just banned Drought without any consequences. Can someone explain this matter to me and tag me then?
From the suspect thread, the very brief reason is that "Vulpix was chosen as the victim of the suspect over Drought because Vulpix is the only Drought user and we do not want to have a complex ban on the Pokemon."

Beyond that, you can also look at this as a difference in intended philosophy between LC and standard tiers, where the goal in LC is to tier Pokemon rather than something else - you can also see shades of this in the Porygon and Cutiefly bans. As far as I'm aware, the only real time that an ability or move would be preferentially tested or banned rather than the Pokemon is if it was inherently uncompetitive and that's not really the case for Drought, which was definitely more on the "broken" side than "uncompetitive". If Drought was on multiple Pokemon and it was a broken ability on all of them perhaps the scenario would have been different, but as it stands rather than banning a piece of a Pokemon to nerf it and bring it down to manageable levels the broken Pokemon was banned.
 
#79
I can now get behind it kinda, thanks! Though I disagree with this philosophy, and the statement that it would have been a complex ban, because it would not have been that. But this is probably not the place to discuss this
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
#80
Why doesn't Tirtouga use Liquidation in favor of Waterfall on Shell Smash sets? The flinching chance may be nice but 5 extra Base Power and the chance to lower an opponent's Defense seems more useful to me.
 

Elec.

mind the gap
is a Pre-Contributor
#81
Why doesn't Tirtouga use Liquidation in favor of Waterfall on Shell Smash sets? The flinching chance may be nice but 5 extra Base Power and the chance to lower an opponent's Defense seems more useful to me.

i think theres 2 reasons, if you run zen headbutt to hit threats such as foongus or mienfoo, liquidation will be incompatible (for the time being rn) with zen headbutt as its a gen 7 egg move with a gen 6 tutor move. the second reason is that lc rolls are pretty low anyways that sometimes the 5 bp doesnt matter much and the defense drop isnt pivotal in many situations since tirtouga will be 2hkoing most threats anyways after a boost, compared to say, immobilizing your opponent for the turn with waterfall and not taking any damage.
 
#82
So in the grand scheme of things Liquidation and Waterfall actually do the same damage:

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 32.8% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 32.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 12-15 (48 - 60%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 12-15 (48 - 60%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 36+ Def Eviolite Munchlax: 9-12 (30 - 40%) -- 59.8% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 36+ Def Eviolite Munchlax: 9-12 (30 - 40%) -- 59.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 36+ Def Eviolite Munchlax: 16-21 (53.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 36+ Def Eviolite Munchlax: 16-21 (53.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mudbray: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mudbray: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mudbray: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. +1 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mudbray: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Tirtouga: 7-9 (31.8 - 40.9%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Tirtouga: 7-9 (31.8 - 40.9%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Tirtouga: 12-15 (54.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Tirtouga: 12-15 (54.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 132 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 132 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 132 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 26-32 (104 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 132 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 26-32 (104 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO


A 20% chance to lower defense isn't that helpful in the long run as if Tirtouga doesn't OHKO a threat and still survives, it'll probably 2HKO the next turn. Meanwhile, the same chance to completely neuter the target without taking damage is more useful. Zen Headbutt compatibility is also a major factor. And although it's not that important Waterfall has more PP so in the case of facing something trying to PP stall you it's more useful.

Liquidation does do more damage sometimes but it's not that large of a difference.
 
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#83
So in the grand scheme of things Liquidation and Waterfall actually do the same damage:

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 32.8% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 32.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Liquidation does more damage as a rule of thumb, I suggest checking more calcs than just two in the future.

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 15-18 (62.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 15-18 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-19 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 15-18 (60 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 16-19 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Vullaby: 21-25 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Vullaby: 22-27 (88 - 108%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 5.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 8-9 (32 - 36%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 204 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 5.8% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9)
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 204 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 8-9 (32 - 36%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9)

+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Staryu: 7-9 (36.8 - 47.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 212 Atk Tirtouga Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Staryu: 8-9 (42.1 - 47.3%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Zen Headbutt compatibility is pretty much the only factor, but it's an important factor as well which is why most sets will run Waterfall over Liquidation.
 
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#84
two questions
1.) why is this the first post since September lol
2.) somebody name me all viable spams? ik water, bird, fight, dark but are there anymore? also, how many mons do u need on one team for it to be considered spam? i guess around 3, but im not sure.
wait. thats 3 questions. oh well.
 

Gummy

send typecharts
is a Pre-Contributor
#85
two questions
1.) why is this the first post since September lol
2.) somebody name me all viable spams? ik water, bird, fight, dark but are there anymore? also, how many mons do u need on one team for it to be considered spam? i guess around 3, but im not sure.
wait. thats 3 questions. oh well.
1. new people are rare :^( or at least, a lot of them ask questions in the LC discord.
2. you basically named all of the best ones. firespam isn't bad, i've heard of groundspam and poisonspam existing, but they aren't all that great. typespam really just means 2 or more of the same type on one team.
 
#86
two questions
1.) why is this the first post since September lol
2.) somebody name me all viable spams? ik water, bird, fight, dark but are there anymore? also, how many mons do u need on one team for it to be considered spam? i guess around 3, but im not sure.
wait. thats 3 questions. oh well.
1) people haven't been asking questions
2) the four you listed are the main ones, other typespam have too many issues to really be worth it. firespam's ok
3) generally you want 6 mons on a team but I guess you can do what you want dude (if you have two Pokemon on a team that share a type and break for the other to be a wincon that's often enough to be called typespam, for example doduo+vullaby or timburr+mienfoo can reasonably be called bird/fightspam)

e: ofc it's gummy
 
#87
two questions
1.) why is this the first post since September lol
2.) somebody name me all viable spams? ik water, bird, fight, dark but are there anymore? also, how many mons do u need on one team for it to be considered spam? i guess around 3, but im not sure.
wait. thats 3 questions. oh well.
Any kind of type spam can work I guess depending on the scenarios, but what you just mentioned are the most consistent ones. I've seen Electric Spam / Fire Spam/ Ice Spam / Poison Spam / Grass Spam / Ground Spam being succesfull so far, but all have only been pulled of by players already familiar with the tier. I would encourage you to try any type you want though if there is a particular mon you like and want something to break for it :)
 
#88
These are my first few days ever playing little cup so I was wondering what's considered the best cores to build around in the tournament scene. Maybe like a top 3 list or something like that.
 
#91
These are my first few days ever playing little cup so I was wondering what's considered the best cores to build around in the tournament scene. Maybe like a top 3 list or something like that.
Ferroseed+Spritzee saw great use in Snake iirc, but that's usually not a core you build around. Worth mentioning though, along with Diglett+Shellder.
 
#94
why isnt type null an lc mon? I didn't play sun/moon so if there's something ingame that explains it I apologize, I'm just genuinely curious since it SEEMS to have an evolution from an outside perspective. maybe it can't breed. but either way, I'm just curious.
It can’t be bred, and it’s obtained in game at level 40. So it can’t be obtained at level 5, so it’s not legal in Lc.