OU Simulation of a Drought (GeneSun team)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Lavos Spawn, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. duke3528

    duke3528

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    Ok everyone has been pointing out your weaknesses so you already know who they are. a great mon to help with a good portion of them would be forretress. Put him over xatu. I know you dont want to spin but his defences are alot better as well as his typing. the set im recommending is

    forretress@leftovers(sturdy)
    240HP 8atk 220Def 40spatk
    relaxed Nature
    IV 2 Spd
    Hidden power ice
    gyro ball
    rapid spin
    volt switch

    Hp ice will help with dragons and gliscor while voltswitch helps with waters and keeps that momentum going that you want with u-turn and dugtrio while gyro ball will take out mamoswine and terrakion easily. rapid spin is to make up for magic bounce. and with those evs he will take out salamence and landorus in 2 hits after stealth rocks.

    for venusaur i recomend
    156atk 172Satk 180spd
    naive
    growth/sleep powder
    solar beam
    hidden power ice
    earth quake

    This set is self explanitory but i think it would help out alot more with your team than your set. In the end it is up to you but but with these changes your weaknesses become less great and your team becomes stronger as a whole. Good luck on your team
  2. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown An obsession with the past is like a dead fly
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    Yeah this team is great, even if I hate that everybody and their mother uses it -__-

    Anyway, since you asked me for a rate, the only thing I can say is running Roar or Toxic on Ninetales to deal with Volcarona more reliably (especially against bulky versions) since Hidden Power Rock doesn't do much when Volcarona is at +1... And well, Shed Shell Heatran is a huge problem and there isn't any good way of solving it without changing the team much, but trying Hidden Power Ground on Ninetales or Earthquake on Venusaur could work.
  3. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    I think you forgot to mention that Sheer Force Landorus, especially Rock Polish, is probably the biggest threat to this team. It gives you a lot of trouble by spamming Earth Power, which kills everything but Genesect, who is still taking 84.1% - 98.94%, and Xatu, who eats 73.05% - 86.23% from HP Ice. Switching into offensive mons is always hard for offensive teams, but Lando is more pressing since when it comes in on Dugtrio, if it gets that +2 Speed you're almost automatically boned. I'd try running Memento over Stone Edge/Reversal on Duggy so you can halve Lando's SpA and hold off its assault for a bit; after you force it out, you've gotta find a way to get a Growth with Venusaur and sweep them before they sweep you.

    ssbm already mentioned this but I'll repeat it since I've been using it on my own sun team and it's saved my ass several times: Explosion on Genesect is an excellent back-up Volcarona check, since Dugtrio's Sash isn't exactly what I'd call a consistent check seeing as it'll be using it up to trap Tyranitar/Heatran.

    I'd use 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd on Venusaur; it gives you more physical bulk than your current spread as well as a Life Orb number for minimal recoil.

    Obviously Shed Shell Heatran murders this team but the fact that it was even created shows just how hard it is to counter this team with conventional methods. This is definitely the defining Sun team of early BW2 so congrats. Also I'm very disappointed at the lack of an As I Lay Dying reference but I'll let it slide this time.
  4. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    Thanks to everybody who has rated this team so far, I appreciate all the input and I've read every single one of your rates carefully. The only changes I'm considering are Memento > Stone Edge on Dugtrio to mess up RP Landorus, and Explosion on Genesect as an extra Volcarona safeguard. Max speed still beats it though.

    Definitely changing my Venusaur's EV spread to what BKC suggested, I'm horrible at devising efficient EVs!
  5. undisputed

    undisputed
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    You gave me the version with Volcarona on it, and personally, I enjoyed that one a lot. I know Victini has the ability to straight up OHKO most stuff under Sun, but I found that Volcarona either swept often or forced the opponents hand a lot of the time. Also provided a nice end-game option to finish off the match. Victini just seems to hit and run most of the time, opening you to a lot of switching and room for error. In most of my games using this team vs. Volcarona, I used my Volcarona as a psuedo-check to other Volcarona, which really means that I set mine up first and just blasted my way to victory with the rest of the team before the other Volcarona could be a problem. The version with Volc also helped me beat Myzozoa a couple times who was using RP Lando because EP would barely miss the KO.

    I honestly wouldn't use Memento on Dugtrio. Stone Edge was a lifesaver some times, and Memento means that you can, at best, delay Volcarona getting in. I don't think you desperately need the extra set up opportunity Memento Dugtrio would give you.

    Explosion seems minorly interesting. Rarely did I use Thunderbolt with Genesect since Water types aren't really an issue under sun and Ice Beam takes care of Flying mons. Explosion just feels so weak though... I found myself saving Gensect for late game Flamethrower sweeps oftentimes, and I can't think of a time where blowing up would have been a better bet.

    Obviously, fantastic team. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to post it in the future and take credit. Good job!
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    Thanks for the rate, undisputed. I was really considering posting the Volcarona version of this team instead, but I feel like the Victini version sees more general usage on the ladder and is overall a better matchup against the omnipresent rain teams. Volc is nice to end games with, but I've often found it just serves as dead weight, with Venusaur having more than enough speed and coverage to clean up late-game. I appreciate the input on Memento, I'm still leaning towards Stone Edge because RP Landorus isn't all that common and if I see a Landorus in team preview I always try to keep Genesect at 100% in fear of that set anyways. And I really don't want to use Explosion because then I'm flat out 6-0'd by DD Gyarados.

    That's why I posted it now instead of later! I saw an RMT go up a few days ago that was a little too similar to this team for me to let it slide...needless to say it's deleted now, but still.
  7. PDC

    PDC amg is fucking aids
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    Ya, this is a great team. It is one of the most annoying ones I have faced sun wise.

    My only suggestion would be to try out Earthquake on Venusaur over Growth or Hidden Power Fire. This kills RestTalk Tran easily through luring it in. Not many Venusaur run EQ, so this should be able to at least somewhat help in your problem. Not much else to say really.

    Good luck!
  8. -Rockstar-

    -Rockstar-

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    Great team i wanna second PDC's suggestion of using Earthquake on Venusaur.I would suggest using it over Sludge Bomb because at the moment Shed Shell Heatran is growing in popularity mainly because of this team which I find funny actually, so replacing Sludfe Bomb over Earthquake will make it even easier to play against Heatran, It can just come out on something like Ninetales, Venusaur (w/out Earthquake), Xatu or Victini and just throw a Fire Blast or Earth Power and hit something hard which is kinda scary.That's all I really have to say, this is a nice team, I've used it myself and fun with it.Luvdiscd
  9. ThunderBlunder

    ThunderBlunder

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    Yup, this is pretty much the best Sun Team out right now and the Genesect/Duggy/Xatu core is pretty much the best weather preserving core. Great team as always and yes I bet others have brought it up but Sheer Force Lando 6-0es you so look out for that. My only suggestion is to use Hidden power Ice on Dugtrio over Stone Edge and I believe run 32 SpA evs or something to get the guranteed 2HKO. Since SE is your safeguard to Volcarona you could always ditch HP Fire on Venusaur for Sleep Powder to cripple it as you still outspeed at plus 1 and most of your team can take out ferrothorn, forry, skarm, and rachi so it shouldn't be too bad. All in all great team :D
  10. Bribery

    Bribery

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    Truly a metagame defining team here. It's pretty much perfect so I only have a minor suggestion. If you give Genesect 112 ATK EVs, it guarantees the OHKO after SR on 252 HP Latias with U-turn + Download boost. Perhaps a spread of 112 Atk / 232 SAtk / 164 Spd. I think it's worth the change since Latias looks like it can be annoying if it gets too many boosts, and you don't lose too much special attack.


    Some optional/slightly gimmicky changes:
    If you're really concerned about RP Landorus, you could try Rock Tomb > Stone Edge on Dugtrio and HP Ice on Venusaur. Rock Tomb can reduce Landorus' speed boost to +1 which means you can revenge kill it with Venusaur (with Sun active obviously).

    Also, using Earthquake > Sludge Bomb on Venusaur, and giving it and EV spread of 92 Atk / 236 SAtk / 180 Spd with a Naive/Hasty nature could help deal with your Shed Shell Heatran weakness. 92 Atk EVs and LO guarantee an OHKO on max HP Heatran after SR.

    Luvdisc'd.
  11. duke3528

    duke3528

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    did everyone skip my rate because it seems like they just keep suggesting the same things i said for the most part but withoutforretress. in case anyone missed what I said here it is again

    forretress@leftovers(sturdy)
    240HP 8atk 220Def 40spatk
    relaxed Nature
    IV 2 Spd
    Hidden power ice
    gyro ball
    rapid spin
    volt switch

    Hp ice will help with dragons and gliscor while voltswitch helps with waters and keeps that momentum going that you want with u-turn and dugtrio while gyro ball will take out mamoswine and terrakion easily. rapid spin is to make up for magic bounce. and with those evs he will take out salamence and landorus in 2 hits after stealth rocks.

    for venusaur i recomend
    156atk 172Satk 180spd
    naive
    growth/sleep powder
    solar beam
    hidden power ice
    earth quake

    This set is self explanitory but i think it would help out alot more with your team than your set. In the end it is up to you but but with these changes your weaknesses become less great and your team becomes stronger as a whole. Good luck on your team

    It solves your landorus problem and the heatran problem as well as almost 90% of your other problems. I know im not well known like other people here but I do know what im talkig about
  12. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    the whole reason xatu works on the team is because magic bounce does not require you to spend a turn to protect against hazards. that lets you keep up the momentum with your uturns and quickly come back in to ward off hazards if the setters return. while forretress may be able to defend against hazards by spinning, it needs a turn to do so, which utterly cripples this team's ability to maintain momentum against hazard users. forretress might have much better bulk and defensive utility than xatu, but the lack of magic bounce means it does the job much worse than xatu on this team.

    EDIT: oh and i forgot to say i have actually been looking forward to this RMT. i only recently stopped lurking on smogon and it's been interesting to watch this team really take the game by storm. i've read a lot of stuff about how X team defined X archetype in X metagame but this is probably the first time that i've been active enough to see it happen. very cool stuff. anyway i'm too shitty at laddering to make any qualified suggestions so yeah good RMT, and if i do ladder you can bet your ass i will have a shed shell heatran to defend against this crazy shit.
  13. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    Alkinesthetase hit the nail on the head. I would have Forretress on a less momentum-based team, but this particular lineup is centered around keeping up offensive pressure on the opponent and forcing a ton of switches (hence the 3 U-turners) so I can't afford to waste a turn Rapid Spinning hazards away as it totally ruins my momentum. I understand Forry has excellent bulk and such, but if I run it over Xatu I flat-out lose to Sand Spikes-stacking or basically any team with a Jellicent + Stealth Rock. Magic Bounce is a perfect fit for the way the team plays.
  14. august

    august when the storm screams angela, angela
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    I'm deleting all of your posts. Shut the fuck up

    next person to claim this was stolen is getting infracted
  15. Pridy

    Pridy

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    Good team Lavos. Aside from RP special lando this team virtually has no weaknesses

    I really enjoyed the creativity of this RMT, it's quite rare these days.
    Although this team does look like the generic sun team quite a bit but whatever

    Grats on da peak

    PS this team will probably take you really far in the world cup.
    Add to dat badges list hehe :3
  16. Jr Breshears

    Jr Breshears

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    Nice Team Lavos! The only thing I would suggest is Earthquake over Sludge Bomb to hit heatran's and stuff, but thats mostly a preference. Luvdisc'd!
  17. TGMD

    TGMD n_n
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    Hey Lavos Spawn, as everyone has said before me, this team is amazing and has been copied by a mass amount of people on the ladder.

    However, this team does have a few weaknesses, most notably of which is Sheer Force Rock Polish Landorus, but there are a few others; Volcarona, Kyurem, Shed Shell TTar / Heatran etc. A few people have suggested some good changes that lessen the threat level of some of these pokemon, such as; EQ on Venusaur for Shed Shell Heatran. But the problem with this suggestion is that Venusaur is the main sweeper and without it's current moves, it's sweeps wont be as effectient or as common. To remedy this; I suggest switching some of your pokemon's roles around. For the first of these role changes, I suggest Support Venusaur over your current sweeper set. This Venusaur is mainly for eliminating Shed Shell Heatran, it has a more support role but can also revenge kills dragons among a few others and it can even be a mixed sweeper.

    Support Venusaur (open)

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 92 Atk / 236 SpA / 180 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
    IVs: 30 Spd
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain

    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake

    The attack EVs allow you to OHKO all Heatran after Stealth Rock damage, the speed EVs are there for the same reason as before; outspeeding Choice Scarfed base 110s, and the rest is in Special Attack for maximum power on Hidden Power [Ice] and Giga Drain. The moveset is pretty self explanitory, Sleep Powder for putting anything to sleep that you can't kill off with your coverage moves and because of the sleep mechanics Sleep Powder is pretty much the same as KOing a pokemon, Giga Drain for STAB and healing off Life Orb recoil, Hidden Power [Ice] for dragons and coverage, Earthquake for Heatran and coverage.

    The next change I suggest is Choice Scarf over Choice Band on Victini, this gives Victini a more revenge killing and sweeper role. Victini will remedy your Volcarona weakness with Victini's ability to come in, outspeed all neutral Volcarona at +1 and nuke it with a sun boosted V-create. You're also now faster than Kyurem and even without your Choice Band and Adamant nature you still OHKO the Offensive Kyurem that Anikrahman1995 mentioned under the sun.

    Choice Scarf Victini (open)

    [​IMG]

    Victini @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - V-create
    - Flare Blitz / Brick Break
    - Fusion Bolt
    - U-Turn

    EVs are for maximum hitting power and as much speed as possible. Jolly is prefered over Adamant as it allows you to outspeed Choice Scarf Genesect, Modest +1 Volcarona, etc. Most of the moves have carried over from your Choice Band set (With Victini's Choice Scarf, Fusion Bolt now has the added bonus of revenge killing Gyrados), but Flare Blitz is there so that you can pull off sweeps on weakened teams, because V-create is a hit and run move and Brick Break isn't as needed anymore considering Shed Shell Heatran is now covered with Venusaur's Earthquake and Shed Shell Tyranitar is covered with my next suggestion...

    Choice Band over Choice Scarf on Genesect, this suggestion is kind of a weird one, but hear me out. With a Choice Band equipped, Genesect is now the hard hitter of your team and seeing as how everything with neutral defenses is being EV'd to not give Genesect a special attack boost, it is a pretty common occasion for Genesect to be at +2.25 (Attack boost + Choice Band.) A +2.25 STAB U-Turn is ridiculous and keeps up amazing momentum while putting a dent even in those that resist U-Turn. Arguably Scizor is a superior Choice Bander but Genesect has: Higher speed, Download, and the ability to go mixed. The higher speed is a pretty big selling point, considering Genesect can U-Turn out on so many pokes and keep up the momentum, whereas Scizor is often going to have to resort to using Bullet Punch to kill alot of pokemon.

    Choice Band Genesect (open)

    [​IMG]
    Genesect) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, - Def)
    - U-Turn
    - Iron Head
    - Quick Attack
    - Flamethrower

    EVs give you max speed and hitting power. You don't outspeed anything too important with a +Spe nature so Lonely is preffered. U-Turn keeps up the momentum, Iron Head is secondary STAB, although it has weak coverage the flinch chance is always nice, Quick Attack gives you emergency an emergency option for sweepers, and Flamethower gives you good coverage and with the sun boost as well as a Special Attack boost, Flamethower can actually hit pretty hard. Explosion is an option over Flamethower but Flamethower is generally superior.


    Although you have Genesect's Quick Attack there's not much else that really helps against your biggest threat: Sheer Force Rock Polish Landorus. However, with Scarf Victini, Venusaur's Sleep Powder and Genesects Quick Attack, you have more than enough options to take down Volcarona, so I suggest running Memento or Hidden Power [Ice] over Stone Edge on Dugtrio. Memento is a temporary solution that will stop Landorus cold and force a switch, allowing a free switch in to whatever you please, whereas Hidden Power [Ice] offers a permanent solution and 2HKOs Landorus with a spread of 184 Atk / 72 SAtk / 252 Spd with a Hasty nature.

    Anyway, sorry about the long rate, but I hope it helped and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)
  18. Gamester

    Gamester

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    Great team Lavos you know I love you.

    But all good sun teams are all the same concept. This is really similar to vengeance but more offensive. I'm not saying you stole anything from me lol but I mean think about it. Ninetales/ Victini/ Venasuar / Dugtrio / then Genesect as your moment keeper over Forretress and Xatu to prevent hazards and cover additional weakness over Wobbuffet. But then the same can be said about my team compared to older sun teams lol.

    I have no complaints cause all sun teams suffer from the same general problems. Stone_cold had one of the only innovative teams since his didn't really care about sun all too much only as a touch of help for lilligant.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    I wouldn't even say it's similar. Sun teams are rigid as hell:
    Ninetales is mandatory, Dugtrio & Venusaur are indispensable and Victini is a top tier sun sweeper. Genesect is nothing like Forretress, and Xatu has just started to catch on...

    So actually, this team is nothing like your team at all :lol
  20. Finchinator

    Finchinator

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    Good team Lavos, it looks very solid and can certainly function well in this metagame!
    However, you do look a bit tran weak, especially baloon/scarfed heatran when dugtrio has its sash broken! (or if it gets burnt by lava plume) To fix this I'd advise either changing hp rock on ninetales to hp fighting (also hits tyranitar), it hits heatran with a super effective hit and also, it breaks the baloon! If that doesn't work then I'd try putting earthquake over sludge bomb or giga drain on Venasaur, even though giga drain is it's main stab and healing move, it isn't as strong as sludge bomb and bulky waters are set up on and killed with sludge bomb! (and tentacruel with earthquake)
    Finally, another possible move to defeat heatran hp ground over thunderbolt on genescent (this can also be used instead of earthquake on venasaur or hp fighting on ninetales) The reason why thunderbolt isn't reallty needed on your team is because in the sun water types are less threatening and fusion bolt from victini can easily put a dent into then! Otherwise, the team is very solid.

    Note: all of this doesn't matter if you can keep dugtrio at full and break possible baloons (and scout scarfs) on tran.
  21. AznSeal

    AznSeal

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    There's nothing bad I can say about the team. It's amazing how sun evolved from hyper offense chlorophyll spinners to Ninetales+Dugtrio to Ninetales+multiple trappers to this. This is a fantastic team and this is probably my favorite sun team (which is hard to say, because I loved vengeance).

    One thing is i really prefer Volcarona over Victini because I feel like the late game sweeping potential is amazing. If you do that, then you can make Venusaur less sweeper and more support with Sleep Powder. That's the setup I used on my version of Vengeance (Abe used Victini, I used Volcarona), but once again it's probably due to my play style difference and I don't want to mess with your core (plus we all have our favorite pokes. Mine is wobbufett for instance).

    Anyways, I feel like i'm just rambling so yeah..love the team. Luvdisced.
  22. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    I don't want to shit up Lavos' RMT, so i'll keep it brief:

    It's an extremely common archetype because sun team slots are limited. You HAVE to use Ninetales, you're likely to want to abuse Dugtrio / Venusaur because they're really useful, and Xatu / Spinner is just common sense. Lavos' team makes active makes use of Genesect/Xatu while Gamester's doesn't and they play differently as a result. in that respect, are completely different.

    Otherwise, I might as well go around posting in sun teams saying "OMG THAT'S SIMILAR TO THE TEAM I USED!" It just doesn't make sense.
  23. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
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    Thanks for the rates, everybody. I've looked them all over carefully, and while I appreciate the time and thought that were put into them by people such as Doom and Finchinator, I'm not making any changes until I test out every suggestion and determine for myself what fits the style of the team and my own playstyle better. Still, thank you for the rates, please keep them coming!

    And to those who say my team is similar to other Sun offense teams, of course it's going to be. The accepted core for Sun offense is Ninetales, Dugtrio, and 2 Sun sweepers. The last two Pokemon have to be something to deal with hazards and a filler, preferably a Steel-type. Being similar to another successful team is something I can be proud of, because it means my team is somewhat decent as well.
  24. Sork

    Sork

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    Hey Lavos, I'm not an excellent team rater, and this suggestion is probably one that you've already thought of and dismissed, but have you thought about using focus sash Genesect instead of your current choice scarf one? With focus sash, you can still bluff the scarf, and with Xatu able to keep hazards off your team, you'll be able to take a hit from any poke, no matter what their speed stat is, and be able to hit hard with the appropriate move. This might also help to alleviate your Rock Polish Landorus problem, because this way, Landorus won't be able to KO, even with a crit, and will allow Genesect to be able to KO back with an Ice Beam. The EV spread I would suggest for this is 64 atk / 252 speed / 194 Sp Atk. This also allows you to take on DD Dragonite head on, since it won't be able to OHKO if it's carrying Fire Punch, since the EV's you had were so that you can outspeed Dragonite at +1
  25. AznSeal

    AznSeal

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    Agreed. Every sun team needs ninetales. Dugtrio pretty much poops on Tyranitar, and EQ+Reversal stops specs toad dead cold.

    This team is completely different from gamestars. Vengeance was (one of) the first sun team to abuse a wobb-trio core to completely shut down opposing weather. Dugtrio gets rid of Specs toad/Ttar while wobb gets rid of Hippowdown/scarf toad/support toad.

    Lavos's team was the first to popularize Genesect/U-turning in the sun, and it does it successfully by putting on heavy offensive pressure.

    tl;dr: This team and vengeance are completely different.

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