1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Simulation of a Snow Warning (GeneHail Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Mosquiton, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Simulation of a Snow Warning [​IMG]




    Hello everyone, welcome into the Hail!

    I got the idea for this team when I first saw Lavos Spawn's GeneSun; i was tired of seeing the classic rain / sun / sand teams, so I wanted to do something different: pair Genesect with Abomasnow.
    This team is really funny to use but it is also solid and functional.
    I peaked at 1500 points on PO server in two hours and I hope that with your help I will improve even more.
    But I don't want to bore you, so let's see the building phase!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Seed Bomb





    ___________________________________________________________________


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Blizzard
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower





    ___________________________________________________________________

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar


    ___________________________________________________________________

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Earth Power


    ___________________________________________________________________


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 208 Def / 56 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Substitute

    ___________________________________________________________________

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psyshock


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Export to Text:
    Code:
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Seed Bomb
    
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Blizzard
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Earth Power
    
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 208 Def / 56 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psyshock
    
    [​IMG]Wish you enjoyed the team, if so just leave a Luvdisc and that’ ll be enough to make me happy :D[​IMG]

    Thanks to Rooreeloo for help me with the translate

    See you soon with another Mosq's RMT!
  2. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Your team is almost completely dismantled by BU Conkeldurr. Once the thing gets a +1, it can take a whole load of hits from your team, and KO a good portion of your team. Heatran and Abomasnow don't need explanation, Kyurem is OHKO'd by Drain Punch as it fails to OHKO with Blizzard. Genesect can harm Conkeldurr too, but a combination of Drain Punch + Mach Punch will kill it while Conk regains most of its life back. Gliscor and Starmie can both be handled with Payback (okay Gliscor can outstall Gust-boosted +1 Paybacks, but that's a very shaky check, a crit means GG and your opponent can dedicate 1 poke to handle Gliscor and its Conk has a free sweep). Also, Starmie doesn't OHKO with Psyshock at +0, even worse at +1.

    To fix that, I propose adding somewhere a Reuniclus. Reuniclus gives you an additional Fighting resistance, which is always nice, does not take damage from hazards, weather and whatever, thus having awesome synergy with your team, and can completely shut down Conkeldurr (it's slower, so Payback won't do jack). However, I'm unable to fit it into your team: the natural thing to remove is Starmie, since removing everything esle will leave you with an unhealthy weakness to U-Turn; however, giving up Rapid Spin is not good too in a Hail team. This probably won't be that helpful, it looks like a half rate, I suggested a solution and not how to effectively implement it, however I thought that Reuniclus could be a good input anyway and posted. Try to fit into your team yourself, or just wait for the next rater and hope he/she'll have better ideas than mine.

    Reuniclus (open)
    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Leftovers | Magic Guard
    Quiet | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA | 0 Spe IVs
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Focus Blast


    Sorry again, hope that my post is not completely useless. Good luck for your team!
  3. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Theoretically you're right, I could solve the problem putting Psychic > Psyshock to Starmie, but Concky is not very common and i prefer to use Psyshock for CMKeldeo.
    But i think about it, ty ^^
  4. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    I have been saying this on other Hail Teams -

    Run 112 Speed on your Abomasnow to outspeed most Ttar and Politoeds. Wood Hammer + Expert Belt OHKOes any Ttar variant and I think defensive politoed too so you may want to try it. The recoil does not matter much because you have leech seed to recover the damage.
  5. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    @SealClubbingCub

    Thats a good idea in theory, but switching in a Tyranitar or Politoed directly into an aboma is essentially suicide, and in the case of a leadoff, the hail coming first should tip the other guy off about wood hammer. In addition, aboma happens to be one of the bulky water trolls in the game, and removing its leftys and bulk really cripples it in that respect.

    Now onto the actual team. You have a fairly solid team here; good job. Honestly, I'm hard pressed to find serious flaws in this team. However, a few of the sets could be improved. Abomasnow is running an offensive spread but defensive moves. Personally, because aboma is such a brilliant bulky water counter, I'd consider investing more in special defense to aid in taking surfs and shit.

    I really dont see the point of protect heatran in hail; you aren't recovering any health and the things that attack it usually are fairly easily generally responded to (terrakion? go to gliscor politoed? go to abomasnow or kyurem etc). I would recommend Earth Power over Protect. This gives you a pretty simple way of hurting opposing fire types without having to take a hit with kyurem. It's also quite nice against stuff like tentacruel, who can no longer spin with impunity against the lava monster.

    Kyurem really, REALLY wants a Timid nature. With one, you outspeed Adamant Lucario and all Mamoswines, which could otherwise wreak havoc on your team. In addition, you might want to consider a slightly more defensive EV spread to help take scalds.

    Finally, Starmie cant OHKO keldeo with psyshock even with max special attack; you are better off putting the EVs in HP to help take random HP ghosts. In addition, you might want to try out Psychic over Psyshock, as it still beats Keldeo and now lets you easily revenge Conkeldurr, which can be a serious pain if it has ice punch.
  6. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Abomasnow/ Scarf Genesect/ SpD Heatran/ Kyurem/ ToxicStall Gliscor/ Starmie

    Hello there, nice team! First off I'd like to say that I second the notion of putting 112 Spe EVs and replacing Seed Bomb with Wood Hammer on your Abomasnow. Although Tyranitar is far less common than it used to be with Genesect being everywhere, it shouldn't be an overlooked threat. Have you considered running a SubPunch set on Abomasnow? Substitute/Focus Punch/Leech Seed/Ice Shard, you get a free switch in to defensive Politoeds/Hippowdown/basically most bulky Waters and use Substitute as they switch. From there, you can hit Heatran/Genesect other Steel types hard with Focus Punch. Substitute also lets you scout just like Protect would, with the bonus of letting you attack for free.


    Now, Reuniclus seems perfect for this team. However, just like ganj4lf I had a hard time deciding where it would fit best. I think removing Kyurem for Reuniclus is the best decision. In your description of Kyurem you didn't really describe what it did for your team, just noted that it could fire off STAB Blizzards and blah blah blah. Reuniclus provides the same attacking presence from the special side as well as the immunity to Hail damage.

    Show Hide
    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Nature: Bold (+Def,-Atk)
    248 HP/ 252 Def/ 8 Spe
    -Calm Mind
    -Psyshock
    -Focus Blast
    -Recover


    Since your team is pretty much walled to hell and back by the pink blobs, CM Reuniclus helps you to win against them. It also give you a nice sponge for random Close Combats and physical attacks that Gliscor can't handle, such as Waterfall or Ice Shard.

    Reuniclus also helps you deal with Keldeo a little better, meaning you can use Psychic instead of Psyshock on Starmie, allowing you to be able to beat Conkeldurr one on one. Most Conks nowadays run Ice Punch over Payback to be able to kill Gliscor, so no matter what, you have a way to beat it.

    As for Genesect, Bug Buzz> Flamethrower. Its nice to have a STAB option that doesn't force you to switch out. An alternate EV spread of 96 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 162 Spe allows you to still be able to outrun +1 Dragonite and Gyarados and KO with the appropriate move. It also contributes to a stronger U-turn, while keeping all the SpA it needs.

    Anyway, sorry for the quick rate, that's all that really stood out to me. I hope I helped you in some way, shape, or form and good luck with the team!
  7. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    994
    Hey Mosquiton, nice team!

    Max speed on Genesect is only used for speed tying with opposing Genesect and outspeeding a few select pokemon sets that are almost never seen in ou, eg. +1 Jolly Haxorus. Haxorus is always Adamant and even if it was Jolly it has no way of OHKOing Genesect so outspeeding it is unnecessary. I suggest running a spread of: 96 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 162 Spe. This spread still outspeeds everything Genesect needs to outspeed as well as giving you a stronger U-Turn.

    When I looked through your team I noticed that you're very weak to any fighting type that can get past Gliscor, the most threatening of these is Scrafty. Scrafty is rare but the DD variant with Drain Punch sweeps your entire team at +2 unless you get some rather lucky damage rolls / double protects / making predicts that could otherwise cost you the game if you don't make them, unless you take the spread I suggested above. The extra power from U-Turn is all you need to be able to beat Scrafty without relying on luck, here's the scenario: Scrafty comes in, you go to Gene, scrafty takes hail damage (this will happen every turn so I won't put it out from here on), you U-Turn then go out to a pokemon that can only be OHKOd by one of it's coverage moves and not drain punch as it gets to +2, that pokemon dies, you go out to Gene, Scrafty damages you and absorbs some of your health, you U-Turn then go out to Abomasnow and Protect, then you Ice Shard (6.25 + 46.86 + 6.25 + 6.25 - 42 + 46.86 + 6.25 + 18.82 + 6.25), which = 101.79 (all these calcs are asuming you do min damage with U-Turn and Scrafty does max damage with Drain Punch.) This gives you a 93.75% chance of beating Scrafty with losing only 1 pokemon (6.25% chance of Drain Punch crit on Genesect.) If they Have Hi Jump Kick instead of Drain Punch then they don't absorb you health and you only hit them with U-Turn once and you need 2 more rounds of hail damage, so you could go to Gliscor on the turn you need to sac something, protect, then switch to starmie on the Ice Punch then let it die to a Crunch (that's 3 rounds of hail but they can predict the Starmie switch so going for the protect is necessary.) This entire paragraph was essentially just giving you a second reason to use the EV spread I suggested, lol, but it could also help you with what to do if you go up against a scrafty in the future.

    I understand your current spread on Starmie is to outspeed positive base 110s. but with your current spread you reach 352 speed and you only need 351 speed to outspeed positive base 110s, so, an alternative spread of 44 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd accomplishes the same goal as your current one but with slightly more bulk. You could also try a spread of 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd which lets you outspeed Tornadus-I (which is usually outclassed by Tornadus-T but Kidogo did find a set that gave it a niche over Tornadus-T, so it does still see some usage.)

    As Ganj4lf pointed out Conkeldurr is way too much of a threat to this team and consdering it gets 6.046% usage in OU according to last month's usage statistics it's common enough to warrant replacing Psyshock with Psychic, which still beats Keldeo(who only has 5.097% usage in ou) most of the time, as zzazzdsa pointed out.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped helped and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)
  8. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Very Thanks to all!

    @zzaz: Infact im thinking that protect in hail is useless, EPower > Protect is a good idea ty, and i'll try Psychic to Starmie

    @Milos: I'll try subpunch aboma, but sacrifice 25% HP for sub maybe is a suicide :O, but i'll try it and Gene's spread.

    @TGMD: Maybe Reu > Kyu can work, i'll must try it and i'm thinking that can be a good idea ty
    ps, nice avatar, i love Breaking Bad x)
  9. Rooreeloo

    Rooreeloo

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    well my, I must say I'm pretty pleased with how the translation from Italian come out (bar the details you included after I left, your English need some improvement man xD).

    moving onto the proper rate... as I already pointed out in private I still think this team is pretty susceptible to Rock type moves and their best user, aka Terrakion (even Gliscor cannot stand too much STAB Stone Edge). I had some thinking and I realized you could replace Gliscor with Nidoqueen, wich always worked well under hail: you wouldn't lose the countering and the Fighting resistance Gliscor provides for your team and you could set-up Toxic Spikes, which is something that Genesect and Abomasnow appreciate.
    You could also go with something more uncommon like, I dunno, Claydol+Amoonguss over Gliscor+Starmie...
  10. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,138
    It may have already been mentioned, but your lack of a Rock-type resistance is certainly frightening. While this team is obviously solid (it's nearly the same as your tutor, Delko's, hail team from BW1), it has an even bigger weakness to Terrakion because Scizor could revenge kill it easily, while Genesect fails to do anything noteworthy. While Iron Head might seem like the obvious choice to fix this, it doesn't actually beat all Terrakion, as Choice Scarf Terrakion will still OHKO with Close Combat or do major damage with Stone Edge, and Genesect fails to OHKO with Iron Head. Starmie is your only Pokemon that actually does well against Choice Band Terrakion, and that's only after a Pokemon dies, so obviously there's an inherent issue here.

    You can't really do much here, as switching into Terrakion is out of the question with Choice Band Stone Edge ravaging every single Pokemon on this team. However, one route you can take is choosing to run a Landorus-T over your Gliscor. While you lose your Poison Heal and SubToxic shenanigans, you get a much better physical attacker switch-in due to Intimidate. I would recommend a spread of 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def with an Adamant nature, Leftovers, and a moveset of Stealth Rock, U-turn, Earthquake, and Stone Edge. If you choose this route, be sure to replace Stealth Rock on Heatran with Toxic. However, you can also try to patch this up by removing what you consider a key component, and replacing Genesect. This is probably more ideal, but I'm sure you won't be as happy with this change. I'd go with a sturdy Steel-type here, and Jirachi seems to fit the bill the best. A physically defensive spread of 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD and an Impish nature, along with Leftovers and a moveset of Wish, Iron Head, Body Slam, and U-turn or Protect, based on preference. I hope you try out both of these changes, I believe they'd help your team out a lot. Good luck.
  11. GC7

    GC7

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    This is a pretty good team although like other's mentioned a pokemon like tyrannitar can make quick work of this team if it has superpower and stone edge, i know this is perhaps 2 rare pokes to try but weezing and dusclops with eviolite can both be real good at taking those hits,
    luvdisc by the way

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)