Singles Victim of the Week [Current Victim: Landorus-T] ~ VOTING ~

[cant say]

pressure | 252 spa / 4 spd / 252 spe | timid
calm mind | thunderbolt | hidden power ice | shadow ball

I chose Raikou as a solid check, borderline counter, to Suicune. Raikou is able to set up Calm Mind alongside Suicune, and it will always come out on top in this continuous boosting through Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt takes a huge chunk right off the bat, and will KO at +1 after being hit at +0 100% of the time. However, what makes Raikou a check instead of a counter is Scald. Scald allows Suicune to wear down Raikou more than appreciated. Although Raikou will come out on top in the end, it doesn't like the potential Scald burn, making setting up and attacking a mindgame in itself. Overall, Raikou can beat Suicune in nearly all situations. The reason it's chosen over Rotom-Wash is because Rotom-Wash can't actually do anything to Suicune, and it will fail to break through it after boosting. Raikou is more solid all around, and has potential to win due to its boosts. Choice Specs, Life Orb, Assault Vest; you name it! Suicune is unlikely to be able to break through its fellow Dog! Do note, however, that Assault Vest is not a common set, it was just to name a few sets that Raikou could alternatively run. Interestingly enough, dual screens sets have a good matchup versus Suicune as well!

Since we're talking Suicune-specific stuff here, I'm surprised you didn't go Rest over Shadow Ball (and Chesto Berry over Leftovers). I suppose Roar variants mess up your Boost + recover strategy so there's that. Volt Switch would also be a cool fourth move, even though it may seem a bit redundant with Calm Mind, not many Suicune are gonna stay in on Raikou so Volt Switch could grab you some momentum on the switch out as they bring in their Raikou counter (as long as it isn't a Ground-type!). Maybe it's just me but I just don't like Shadow Ball that much

I was gonna post something but then I saw unfixable's post and I just am not gonna say anything anymore.

On the topic of TTar vote though, did that really happen? I was the only 1 who voted other than cant say before he made a request for more votes? I'm a 'dead' man so that makes me sad nobody paid more attention :'(
Perhaps bss is what I'm with here in my grave. -_-

Anyway, further on that topic, every1 who knows me much knows I'm an advocate of Garchomp above all else and if you want some variety, Mega Altaria and Hippowdon. But correct spread TTars can still check Zards other than a +2 ZardX really well so meh let my saltiness to losing to perfect counter movesets of Gengar+Cress cores fuel my vote (well I mentioned it already but ya...)

I will admit the vote at the end was a bit if a mess, but hopefully this encourages everyone to get theirs in quickly when the voting opens (and takes it seriously as well!). I really don't want these threads to die as they're honestly two of the best / long running threads we have

 

[skies]

Since we're talking Suicune-specific stuff here, I'm surprised you didn't go Rest over Shadow Ball (and Chesto Berry over Leftovers). I suppose Roar variants mess up your Boost + recover strategy so there's that. Volt Switch would also be a cool fourth move, even though it may seem a bit redundant with Calm Mind, not many Suicune are gonna stay in on Raikou so Volt Switch could grab you some momentum on the switch out as they bring in their Raikou counter (as long as it isn't a Ground-type!). Maybe it's just me but I just don't like Shadow Ball that much



I will admit the vote at the end was a bit if a mess, but hopefully this encourages everyone to get theirs in quickly when the voting opens (and takes it seriously as well!). I really don't want these threads to die as they're honestly two of the best / long running threads we have

I put Shadow Ball because the double Electric STAB was off-putting, but I guess it's neat to weaken Suicune and then Volt Switch out to a partner! However, I'm not feeling Rest + Chesto Berry. If you're getting worn down by the burn, and then Rest, then Suicune gets a free turn to get another boost and another turn to burn. In the long run, I feel as if Leftovers is more reliable / beneficial in the case of Suicune specifically. Shadow Ball is honestly placed as a filler, because there's not anything that 100% stands out to me as something that you'll absolutely need on Raikou. I'll change it to Volt Switch and slash Shadow Ball afterwards :p.

 

[GateCreeper]

My current team's hard check to Suicune is this, and I recommend trying it because it is a great poke :)

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Specs Magnezone with Analytic hits extremely hard. Hard enough that it has a good chance of OHKOing Suicune at +1! If you actually have Stealth Rock up, that's a dead Suicune. The EVs and IVs may be optimal for it, so it can be switched up to take care of other threats you may want to outspeed. I just prefer mine to be slow enough to take a hit from Aegi and OHKO it, or do more damage to slow things like P2 because Analytic boosts the power. Magnezone does not mind Scald from Suicune at all and it resists Ice Beam as well. I just find Magnezone useful in the meta because it can switch into bulky pokes who abuse paralysis, like Cress, P2 and even Slowbro, and proceed to 2HKO or OHKO them. I don't think anyone would really run lots of SpD investment on CM Suicune, so Magnezone handles Suicune 99.9% of the time without problems. Here's some calcs to show how great it handles Suicune:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 290-344 (140 - 166.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 194-230 (93.7 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (ohko after Stealth Rock damage)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 224-266 (108.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if you choose to not run Analytic Magnezone)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 152-180 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 69-82 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

EDIT: I'm always forgetting to change up the EVs, thnx cant say for reminding me.

 

[cant say]

Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe

TINY nitpick here, but at level 50, 248 and 252 SpA EVs with a 30 IV produce the same stat (199), so you can move 4 of them into Def for an extra point, so the most efficient spread is 252 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD.

Sorry to be a hardass, I just feel it's important to point out differences in EVing at level 50 since that's what we play at

 

[Karma89]

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
Timid Nature
IVs:0 attack, 30 def, 31 on the rest.
Moves:
Snarl
Extra Sensory
HP Ice
Thunderbolt

My hard counter to Suicune on the current team i'm testing is Assault Vest Raikou. Assuming Suicune isn't a Calm Mind set, it has a 71.5 chance to 2 HKO suicune without any sort of help. However, i personally lead Cress/Raikou if i see a Suicune and go Helping Hand into Raikou and hit Suicune hard turn one. Assuming we are looking at the common showdown build for Suicune, then we achieve have a 12.6% chance to OHKO Suicune in this situation. If it happens to be a Calm Mind set in this situation you 2 HKO Suicune every time.

Damage Calcs:


Raikou
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Suicune: 120-144 (57.9 - 69.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Suicune: 114-134 (55 - 64.7%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((vs my build of Suicune))
+1 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Suicune: 168-200 (81.1 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((vs my build after a Helping Hand))
+1 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Suicune: 180-212 (86.9 - 102.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO ((Common showdown after a Helping Hand))
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 52 SpD Suicune: 84-98 (40.5 - 47.3%) -- 95.4% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((After 1 calm mind from Suicune, common build))
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 124 SpD Suicune: 78-92 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((After 1 calm mind from Suicune using my build))
-1 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Suicune: 78-92 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((After a snarl using my Suicune build))
-1 252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Suicune: 80-96 (38.6 - 46.3%) -- 66.4% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery ((After a snarl using common Suicune build))

What we see here is that with Helping Hand, we have a 100% chance to 2 HKO Suicune by turn two of the game even if they get a Calm Mind up. The first hit does between 86.9 to 102.4% of Suicune's total HP after a Helping Hand. So we actually have a chance at OHKOing Suicune before it ever gets up a Calm Mind vs a common build of Suicune. Using my build of Suicune, which is more specially bulky, we see a 81.1 to 96.6% damage roll, which leaves Suicune alive to set up a Calm Mind if that was the move they were going for. In this case a second normal Thunder Bolt will kill Suicune 100% of the time by turn 2.


If we look at a scenario where Suicune uses Snarl turn 1, then we will see that we are looking at 57.9 to 69.5% of Suicune's HP taken away turn one and then a following 38.6 to 46.3% of Suicunes HP taken away on turn 2 after the Snarl using the common Showdown build of Suicune. After Sitrus berry we have a very slim chance, if any chance to actually kill Suicune on turn two of the game. We have absolutely no chance to kill Suicune on turn 2 using my build. Well, outside of crits.

Taking all of this into Consideration, Helping Hand boosts the chances to 2 HKO Suicune to a 100% chance by turn 2 no matter which build of Suicune you are using.


Suicune
100 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 33-39 (19.8 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
-1 100 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 22-27 (13.2 - 16.2%) -- possible 7HKO ((After 1 Snarl))

These are just some quick damage calcs of how long it would take Suicune to kill a Assault Vested Raikou with and without a Snarl. Burn obviously speeds up the process but we can see that Raikou will out DPS Suicune unless it is a Resto Set.

 

[cant say]

However, i personally lead Cress/Raikou if i see a Suicune and go Helping Hand

Sorry, friend. This thread is focusing on singles!

Assuming we are looking at the common showdown build for Suicune

We're also focusing on the in-game Battle Spot metagame, which is actually quite different to the Showdown! ladder... You can find the stats here, where it also says that Calm Mind is used on 53.1% of Suicune, so dealing with it before it boosts / stopping it from boosting / ignoring its boosts is really important!

 

[PPB]

Also guys, remember that 1/4th of all Suicune carry Mirror Coat, so fully offensive special attackers (i.e. AV Raikou, as opposed to CM Raikou) won't always be able to counter Suicune. If this weren't the case, I would have nominated Serperior.

 

[GroudonEmpire]

I'd like to point out that while we are focusing on Singles, the OP doesn't explicitly mention that nor does the title mention that. For all we know maybe NOVED's bffs from Triples or our other brethren from Rotations might leave posts here for those metas since again, it isn't explicitly mentioned therefore there's no restriction.

From an objective 3rd person view that's how it looks.

 

[NOVED]

I'd like to point out that while we are focusing on Singles, the OP doesn't explicitly mention that nor does the title mention that. For all we know maybe NOVED's bffs from Triples or our other brethren from Rotations might leave posts here for those metas since again, it isn't explicitly mentioned therefore there's no restriction.

From an objective 3rd person view that's how it looks.

I have no triples bffs cause nobody plays ;_;

But yeah there is no mention of singles, should probably be something in the OP since "battle spot" encompasses a bunch of formats. And as of lately, BS doubles is a lot more popular than BS singles, in the western pokemon community.

 

[Hulavuta]

I can take care of that!

 

[cant say]

I'd like to point out that while we are focusing on Singles, the OP doesn't explicitly mention that nor does the title mention that. For all we know maybe NOVED's bffs from Triples or our other brethren from Rotations might leave posts here for those metas since again, it isn't explicitly mentioned therefore there's no restriction.

From an objective 3rd person view that's how it looks.

Good points about Triples and Rotations, although I'd just like to remind everyone that since Battle Spot Doubles is the same as VGC at the moment, we are letting the dedicated VGC subforum deal with those discussions. Hopefully we don't have any more of this confusion in the future

singles > doubles imo tho

Also guys, remember that 1/4th of all Suicune carry Mirror Coat, so fully offensive special attackers (i.e. AV Raikou, as opposed to CM Raikou) won't always be able to counter Suicune. If this weren't the case, I would have nominated Serperior.

This is a really good point! You can't just bring in your special attacker and hope to kill Suicune unless you know the OHKO is guaranteed (though your boosting it the enemy Suicune being on low enough health already) since Mirror Coat can result in you straight up losing your answer for Suicune, which could result in it destroying the rest of your team!

 

[Ares]

This is a really good point! You can't just bring in your special attacker and hope to kill Suicune unless you know the OHKO is guaranteed (though your boosting it the enemy Suicune being on low enough health already) since Mirror Coat can result in you straight up losing your answer for Suicune, which could result in it destroying the rest of your team!

Psssh, Mirror Coat. Why need that when you can be immune to Mirror Coat, immune to Scald and use a berry to resist Ice Beam. :^)

Cacturne @ Yache Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Destiny Bond

You can also run life orb to guarentee the 2hko with Seed Bomb, cause with the berry there is a chance you don't get the 2hko where as life orb you get the 2hko. You can Swords Dance as they hit you with an Ice Beam and then you can KO with a bit of prior damage, i.e. if you u-turned out of your bad matchup. This set completely walls crocune, but if you find yourself not being able to get the ko you can use Dbond to finish them off. You also outspeed uninvested Suicune with Adamant, but if you're worried about creepin you can run Jolly which will still get the 2hko with Life Orb.

 

[cant say]

(not a creative set incoming)

I'm finding it hard to find a good one-mon-covers-all type thing to nominate for Suicune since it has ways of dealing with almost anything. Physical attackers? Scald burns and/or Rocky Helmet recoil. Special attackers? Calm Mind or just kill them with Mirror Coat. Defensive mons? Out-stall them with Rest. Looking at the top 10 mons that defeat Suicune on the PGL, it seems like those are mostly revenge killing Suicune, since it seems to me that 'Cune would win against them 1v1. Kangskhan (the top Suicune killer) will be taking so much recoil from Double-Edge and/or Rocky Helmet that it will either die in the process, or be dead-weight for the rest of the battle. Garchomp will never win unless Suicune lacks Ice Beam, and even then it needs to hope that Scald doesn't burn. This is the same story for many of the others, the only promising two from the list are Rotom-W and Breloom. I originally wanted to post Substitute Rotom-W (gets a free sub on the Mirror Coat or switch out, can chisel away with Thunderbolt) but it seems pretty gimmicky. Breloom looks like the most reliable since it can come in on any move except Ice Beam (still tanks it), outspeeds and can put Suicune / the switch in to sleep, and smash Suicune with Bullet Seed

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb / Focus Punch

So this guy can annoy Suicune by threatening it right off the bat with Spore, which will incapacitate it or whatever the opponent might want to send in (except Grass-types + Safety Goggles users ofc), or it can go straight for the kill with Bullet Seed if the user feels lucky (needs 5 hits to KO at full health) or if Suicune has taken some damage. Other moves are Breloom staples, I like Focus Punch since it can sorta work like the SubPunch set as long as the opponent is asleep or you are predicting a switch, however Rock Tomb is sweet for wrecking Talonflame / CharY switches, as well as getting the handy speed drop.

some calcs

• 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 88-108 (42.5 - 52.1%) -- approx. 2.7% chance to 2HKO

• 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 132-162 (63.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 176-216 (85 - 104.3%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

• 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 220-270 (106.2 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

defensive calcs don't really matter since you've got the sash, but modest 252 'Cune doesn't OHKO with Ice Beam (needs to be at +1)

Can someone nominate something with Psych Up to troll Calm Mind 'Cune so I can close the nominations and open the voting? haha.

 

[DragonWhale]

Psssh, Mirror Coat. Why need that when you can be immune to Mirror Coat, immune to Scald and use a berry to resist Ice Beam. :^)

Cacturne @ Yache Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Destiny Bond

You can also run life orb to guarentee the 2hko with Seed Bomb, cause with the berry there is a chance you don't get the 2hko where as life orb you get the 2hko. You can Swords Dance as they hit you with an Ice Beam and then you can KO with a bit of prior damage, i.e. if you u-turned out of your bad matchup. This set completely walls crocune, but if you find yourself not being able to get the ko you can use Dbond to finish them off. You also outspeed uninvested Suicune with Adamant, but if you're worried about creepin you can run Jolly which will still get the 2hko with Life Orb.

Well to be fair Mirror Coat immunity isn't really a plus on a physical attacker lol.

But yeah Suicune is a hard one. It can Roar away setup users, Mirror Coat special attackers bar Hydreigon, and Scald burn physical attackers bar fire types, which leads me to my option: Mega Charizard X!

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Earthquake

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 99-117 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 49-58 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO

Suicune just has no answers to MCX. The best it can hope for is to phaze them out on the setup, but if Zard decides to attack, Suicune will continue to struggle when MCX comes back later. I mean, it's one of the main reasons why X > Y in singles right now. Usually it's best to use SD when Sucune is at full, because it'll most likely switch out. If it doesn't switch or Roar, you have a 68% chance to OHKO with Outrage. Just watch out for fairies that may be in the back, I guess, but Azu is rarely used alongside Suicune.

 

[Ares]

Well to be fair Mirror Coat immunity isn't really a plus on a physical attacker lol.

But yeah Suicune is a hard one. It can Roar away setup users, Mirror Coat special attackers bar Hydreigon, and Scald burn physical attackers bar fire types, which leads me to my option: Mega Charizard X!

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Earthquake

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 99-117 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 49-58 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO

Suicune just has no answers to MCX. The best it can hope for is to phaze them out on the setup, but if Zard decides to attack, Suicune will continue to struggle when MCX comes back later. I mean, it's one of the main reasons why X > Y in singles right now.

I originally was gonna go with a special set :P but if it gets up a calm mind the cacturne becomes a shaky check.

 

[freekhoorn]

cant say I'm finding it hard to find a good one-mon-covers-all type thing to nominate for Suicune since it has ways of dealing with almost anything. Physical attackers? Scald burns and/or Rocky Helmet recoil. Special attackers? Calm Mind or just kill them with Mirror Coat. Defensive mons? Out-stall them with Rest. End quote.

Unaware clefable with calm mind is an exception, cause unaware ignores offensive AND defensive boosts so unaware ignores calm mind, actually. This way clefable can calm mind and heal itself untill it can ohko suicune with +6 moonblast against +0 suicune, because calm mind doesnt work against unaware pokemon.

I am gonna put it up now, wait 10 minutes.

+6 252+ SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Suicune: 207-244 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You need to invest maximum special attack to have a guaranteed ko to max special defense invested suicune, except nature but according to global link nobody (1.1%) uses calm for suicune anyway. I just see that nobody does 252 spd for suicune in the calcs, some do 0, some 59/124. Im gonna stick to 252 cause we dont know anything about ev investment statistics.

 

[cant say]

cant say I'm finding it hard to find a good one-mon-covers-all type thing to nominate for Suicune since it has ways of dealing with almost anything. Physical attackers? Scald burns and/or Rocky Helmet recoil. Special attackers? Calm Mind or just kill them with Mirror Coat. Defensive mons? Out-stall them with Rest. End quote.

Unaware clefable with calm mind is an exception, cause unaware ignores offensive AND defensive boosts so unaware ignores calm mind, actually. This way clefable can calm mind and heal itself untill it can ohko suicune with +6 moonblast against +0 suicune, because calm mind doesnt work against unaware pokemon.

I am gonna put it up now, wait 10 minutes.

+6 252+ SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Suicune: 207-244 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You need to invest maximum special attack to have a guaranteed ko to max special defense invested suicune, except nature but according to global link nobody (1.1%) uses calm for suicune anyway. I just see that nobody does 252 spd for suicune in the calcs, some do 0, some 59/124. Im gonna stick to 252 cause we dont know anything about ev investment statistics.

What about the 42% of Suicune that carry Roar? Setting up Calm Minds in front of those is going to be a tall task!

 

[PPB]

What about the 42% of Suicune that carry Roar? Setting up Calm Minds in front of those is going to be a tall task!

Perhaps tacking Minimize onto the fairy can help as well. Good luck hitting those Roars through an evasion boost! Also, Clefable doesn't really need to set up the Calm Minds because Unaware makes Suicune's attacks weeeeak and it can heal off the damage. It can just keep switching in if Suicune keeps using Roar, until Suicune sees itself forced to use Scald, or runs out of PP for Roar, or has to to Rest. Then it can use Minimize and start setting up CM/ spamming Moonblast. Perhaps Heal Bell is an alternative to CM, or Rest to Moonlight, because of the inevitable Scald burn, and because Moonlight has virtually no PP.

And freekhoorn, I think Encore and Taunt really help in the case of One-Mon-Covers-All-Suicunes, because Suicune likes to use status moves a lot. An example of a Taunt pokemon with an immunity to Water is Jynx, who resists the only two attacks Suicune uses commonly (Scald and Ice Beam), can hit back with Psyshock after setting up Nasty Plot, and can use Perish Song for good measure. Another similar Taunt pokemon is Toxicroak, who can take two +1 Ice beams without any bulk investment if it has Black Sludge, use Swords Dance, and heal back up with Drain Punch (although I don't know if it heals off enough damage).

 

[mhykah]

Perhaps tacking Minimize onto the fairy can help as well. Good luck hitting those Roars through an evasion boost!

Don't need luck, Roar and Whirlwind bypass accuracy check

 

[NOVED]

An example of a Taunt pokemon with an immunity to Water is Jynx, who resists the only two attacks Suicune uses commonly (Scald and Ice Beam)

:^)

just like Jellicent ;)

 

[SimicCombine]

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid Nature
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Will-O-Wisp
-Trick

Cripple it and move on. Not advised to pair with Blaziken.

 

[PPB]

Don't need luck, Roar and Whirlwind bypass accuracy check

Oh, forgot about that. Heal Bell can go in that slot, then. The point is that Fable doesn't necessarily lose despite Roar. Things just get ugly.

 

[Ares]

voting is open cause cant say is as bad as I am at keeping up on these


edit: voting for Dragonwhale

cant say can edit this post with links to the submissions if he wants, i have to go to work soon.

 

[cant say]

Yeah whoops. In a perfect world it'd be cool if this and The Next Best Thing were synced, and I was keeping that open since there's barely any entries in that one yet, but this has drawn out long enough!

I'm voting for Creeper3971 coz Magnezone is strong (I'm a little biased since the Magnemite family are one of my favourite evo lines n_n), having a good chance to OHKO Cune after a Calm Mind while tanking the Scald is pretty good! And if you're scared of the Mirror Coat (which would be a weird combo with Calm Mind but whatever) you can Volt Switch into a Dark-type. I might have to try this guys out myself

 

[ethan06]

Sorely tempted to vote for Mont's Cacturne but I think my vote is going to DragonWhale - I never thought of using Mega Charizard X to counter Suicune, but now that I think about it it does really well. And if it didn't occur to me, then chances are most people on the ladder won't realise how screwed their Suicune is either :)