SINNOH CLASSIC

[Theorymon]

So I tested more Trick Room stuff last night! Here are my results.

-Dusclops is actually REALLY damn good! Unlike Cresselia, this thing has no issues with Scizor, and the Fake Out immunity has been great for setting up Trick Room. Will-O-Wisp has also been an incredible utility against physical Pokemon, often making stuff turn into set up bait for the likes of Snorlax. I've been using Helping Hands Dusclops (yes its an XD move, but I have it on cart and will make sure that mofo spreads around here), which works excellently with Abomasnow and Rhyperior. Only issue is that using Helping Hand means that you have to use Pressure. If you don't want Helping Hand, Frisk is pretty nice for scouting.

-As expected, Weakness Policy Rhyperior is quite a beast. Of course its awesome with Cresselia, but it's still been doing good with Dusclops too. It's super difficult to KO with super effective physical attacks, which means people often fall into the trap of activating Weakness Policy, making Rhyperior super powerful! Of course, it gets annihilated by rain, but I guess it can't be all perfect!

-Hariyama is REALLY powerful stuff! I replaced Hitmontop with it because I was curious, and while it certainly doesn't come close to outclassing Hitmontop, it is a lot more dangerous with Trick Room support than Hitmontop is! I've been using Flame Orb with Guts, and with that Guts boost, Close Combat deals an obscene amount of damage! It also helps that it makes Hariyama immune to sleep.

-At the request of nerd , I tried out Crawdaunt for a bit. While its special bulk is problematic, it is pretty damn powerful and beats the crap out of Cresselia. Plus when it faces rain teams, it can pretty much nuke anything that isn't a Water-type! Not sure if it fits on my team, but I think it's something I'll want to test more for sure!

I've been using Dusknoir to some success. It can use items other than eviolite to get the TR going. Thought about Gardevoir, as it looks like a more offensive, less physically bulky Cresselia with the same supporting options like helping hand and icy wind.

Funny thing about Sinnoh Classic is that I feel like this is one of the few metagames where Dusclops and Dusknoir can co-exist. From what I've seen, Dusknoir is certainly easier to knock out, but Mental Herb and Lum are pretty nice stuff to get TR up more easily against support Pokemon. Also, I've noticed that a lot of Dusknoir are running Fire Punch instead of Night Shade, which is actually really nice for roasting Abomasnow, and smashing through Scizor too since a lot of them carry a Lum Berry.

 

[gepesek]

So I tested more Trick Room stuff last night! Here are my results.

-Dusclops is actually REALLY damn good! Unlike Cresselia, this thing has no issues with Scizor, and the Fake Out immunity has been great for setting up Trick Room. Will-O-Wisp has also been an incredible utility against physical Pokemon, often making stuff turn into set up bait for the likes of Snorlax. I've been using Helping Hands Dusclops (yes its an XD move, but I have it on cart and will make sure that mofo spreads around here), which works excellently with Abomasnow and Rhyperior. Only issue is that using Helping Hand means that you have to use Pressure. If you don't want Helping Hand, Frisk is pretty nice for scouting.

-As expected, Weakness Policy Rhyperior is quite a beast. Of course its awesome with Cresselia, but it's still been doing good with Dusclops too. It's super difficult to KO with super effective physical attacks, which means people often fall into the trap of activating Weakness Policy, making Rhyperior super powerful! Of course, it gets annihilated by rain, but I guess it can't be all perfect!

-Hariyama is REALLY powerful stuff! I replaced Hitmontop with it because I was curious, and while it certainly doesn't come close to outclassing Hitmontop, it is a lot more dangerous with Trick Room support than Hitmontop is! I've been using Flame Orb with Guts, and with that Guts boost, Close Combat deals an obscene amount of damage! It also helps that it makes Hariyama immune to sleep.

-At the request of nerd , I tried out Crawdaunt for a bit. While its special bulk is problematic, it is pretty damn powerful and beats the crap out of Cresselia. Plus when it faces rain teams, it can pretty much nuke anything that isn't a Water-type! Not sure if it fits on my team, but I think it's something I'll want to test more for sure!



Funny thing about Sinnoh Classic is that I feel like this is one of the few metagames where Dusclops and Dusknoir can co-exist. From what I've seen, Dusknoir is certainly easier to knock out, but Mental Herb and Lum are pretty nice stuff to get TR up more easily against support Pokemon. Also, I've noticed that a lot of Dusknoir are running Fire Punch instead of Night Shade, which is actually really nice for roasting Abomasnow, and smashing through Scizor too since a lot of them carry a Lum Berry.

I use a TR team similar to yours with Dusknoir (to get that sinnoh feel) and still works great with menta herb t preventiv random taunts. I run helping hand trick room shadow sneak (to pick surprising ko on sash mons outside TR ) and protec.

Weaknes Policy rhyperior is a beast with helping hand support and megahorn to nail cresselia. Aboma is also good in this meta with grass/ice STAB. Rotom W rounds the core to deal with rain teams and provide will o wisp.

Murkrow works well against boosters and smeargle wich my team is really weak. Also hace perish song. L'ast mon is infernape but i don't know if i may change him and murkrow, any suggestions??

 

[Swordmalice]

-BTW curious, have any of you tried Trick Roomers that aren't Cresselia? I was thinking about trying Bronzong or Dusclops later as well. Dusclops is neat for not getting pounded by Scizor and being able to burn stuff, but I haven't really thought about anything else otherwise.

I've been using Eviolite Porygon2 and have been quite pleased. This thing takes hits like a champ and has better recovery that Cresselia does. It may not be as offensive as Cress but Foul Play mitigates that somewhat against Physical Attackers, especially those who like setting up like Gyrados and Garchomp.

 

[HappyCigs]

Hi hi hi

This is gonna be my first foray into competitive ever and I'm super restricted since I got a new ORAS cart on, er... Wednesday (lost the old one. Never bothered replacing it. Decided RIGHT NOW was a good time because preparation is for losers) so starting completely from scratch pretty much ruling out legendary usage. Good friend of mine who loves breeding mons jumped on the chance to breed a team for me whilst I'm on holiday next week which is super nice of her but since time is of the essence I've already locked in my team so she can get started... and already regretting my decision.

Team was working absolutely fine yesterday (6 for 10) and then today... all the politoed/ludicolo teams have come out to play and I'm 0 for 8 - technically 2 for 10 but one of those my opponent didn't show up and just timed out, and the other instantly forfeited.

-If you run across me on PS! and think "was that a mis-click or is she just an idiot" I can almost guarantee you it's the latter because I know precisely 0 about competitive doubles at this point. Also I'm just bad (at this meta. Slightly less awful at VGC2016)-

As I mentioned I can't really change my team now, but what are people using/how are you countering politoed/ludicolo teams?

(Team here, for giggles: http://pastebin.com/kSmWauNf )

Had a clutch 1-HP sashed Gengar win yesterday (technically this morning but it was 4:30am or whatever stupid-ass time I went to bed)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/sinnohclassic-396561514

That's... about as good as it gets though. Thought I was getting a handle on it and then no.

 

[cant say]

Hi hi hi

This is gonna be my first foray into competitive ever and I'm super restricted since I got a new ORAS cart on, er... Wednesday (lost the old one. Never bothered replacing it. Decided RIGHT NOW was a good time because preparation is for losers) so starting completely from scratch pretty much ruling out legendary usage. Good friend of mine who loves breeding mons jumped on the chance to breed a team for me whilst I'm on holiday next week which is super nice of her but since time is of the essence I've already locked in my team so she can get started... and already regretting my decision.

Team was working absolutely fine yesterday (6 for 10) and then today... all the politoed/ludicolo teams have come out to play and I'm 0 for 8 - technically 2 for 10 but one of those my opponent didn't show up and just timed out, and the other instantly forfeited.

-If you run across me on PS! and think "was that a mis-click or is she just an idiot" I can almost guarantee you it's the latter because I know precisely 0 about competitive doubles at this point. Also I'm just bad (at this meta. Slightly less awful at VGC2016)-

As I mentioned I can't really change my team now, but what are people using/how are you countering politoed/ludicolo teams?

(Team here, for giggles: http://pastebin.com/kSmWauNf )

Had a clutch 1-HP sashed Gengar win yesterday (technically this morning but it was 4:30am or whatever stupid-ass time I went to bed)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/sinnohclassic-396561514

That's... about as good as it gets though. Thought I was getting a handle on it and then no.

I'm assuming you can still optimise moves and items on the team though, right?

Put an Air Balloon on Raichu, this allows him to sit next to Garchomp so he can spam Earthquake until it gets broken, much better than having to use Protect. You don't need a Hasty nature though because the extra damage on Fake Out is negligible (so save you friend the trouble and go for Timid). Lum Berry doesn't really do anything for Raichu either. It's a shame your Focus Sash is taken because Sash+Endeavor is hilarious (especially if you use Scarf on Garchomp but don't).

Choice Scarf is kinda crap on Toxicroak, I've tried out Shuca Berry and it's ok. Nothing is really amazing to use though, Black Sludge could be ok, Safety Goggles is super niche but makes a great counter to Spore / Sleep Powder and I guess it stops hail from chipping at you. Assault Vest is also not terrible. Use Fake Out over Shadow Ball and use Adamant / Jolly over Hasty.

It's a shame you can't use Rough Skin on Garchomp, maybe ask your friend if they can get it. Sitrus Berry won't get you far, since your Sash is taken then I would recommend you use a Yache Berry. Dragon Claw is way better than Dragon Rush purely for reliability. Giga Impact is dumb, use Protect there.

Infernape looks fine. Naive with Overheat instead of Flare Blitz is better but if you can't use it then that's ok. There are some people here using Rocky Helmet on their Infernape to mess up common Fake Out users (because they often carry a Focus Sash like Weavile) but it's definitely not for everyone.

Hmmm using both Garchomp and Mamoswine is probably why you're losing hardcore to Rain teams. Not to mention you have a special/mixed attacking version. If you can ditch the Mamoswine altogether that would be best, otherwise check out the Battle Spot Doubles Analysis for Mamo, as it will still be mostly relevant to this competition. But this is where you could add a dedicated rain check for your team. I'm honestly not sure what the best one-Pokemon answer is to it but Hidden Power Fire Venusaur would do ok.

Gengar looks fine too. Sludge Bomb might be better; it hits Ludicolo for nice damage and can tank a move from it with the Sash intact, and also allows you to hit things like Smeargle and Porygon2 if you need. You have Steel-types covered so no need to really worry about not being able to hit them with Gengar... Only thing Shadow Ball does is hit Cresselia hard.

I hope this somewhat helped!

 

[HappyCigs]

I'm assuming you can still optimise moves and items on the team though, right?

Yep! I've told her not to worry about moves that are learned before lvl 50 or available via TM since I can sort that out once I get them. Only really need to worry about bred-only moves.

Put an Air Balloon on Raichu, this allows him to sit next to Garchomp so he can spam Earthquake until it gets broken, much better than having to use Protect. You don't need a Hasty nature though because the extra damage on Fake Out is negligible (so save you friend the trouble and go for Timid). Lum Berry doesn't really do anything for Raichu either. It's a shame your Focus Sash is taken because Sash+Endeavor is hilarious (especially if you use Scarf on Garchomp but don't).

Huh. That's a neat idea. I was going for the protect-earthquake followed by discharge play (in lieu of being able to Zapdos) but Air Balloon is SO much better. Sadly yeah the Sash is currently being super useful on my Gengar.

Choice Scarf is kinda crap on Toxicroak, I've tried out Shuca Berry and it's ok. Nothing is really amazing to use though, Black Sludge could be ok, Safety Goggles is super niche but makes a great counter to Spore / Sleep Powder and I guess it stops hail from chipping at you. Assault Vest is also not terrible. Use Fake Out over Shadow Ball and use Adamant / Jolly over Hasty.

I went for that as a counter to Azumarill with belly drum to make absolutely sure I could out-speed everything on the field (because Azu can OHKO with play rough) and get HP down sufficiently with poison jab that it couldn't set up belly drum at all. Of course, as soon as I did that, the Azumarill teams stopped showing up. Typical. I've not come across HailRoom or any Hail at all yet, actually (had Mamo with snow cloak for that reason and... nothing). Still, its speed stat is 137 so should outspeed... most... things and not instantly die?

It's a shame you can't use Rough Skin on Garchomp, maybe ask your friend if they can get it. Sitrus Berry won't get you far, since your Sash is taken then I would recommend you use a Yache Berry. Dragon Claw is way better than Dragon Rush purely for reliability. Giga Impact is dumb, use Protect there.

D'oh! I initially had the stats/set for Cynthia's Garchomp and forgot to swap that out when I was fiddling. Somehow didn't notice this whole time.

Infernape looks fine. Naive with Overheat instead of Flare Blitz is better but if you can't use it then that's ok. There are some people here using Rocky Helmet on their Infernape to mess up common Fake Out users (because they often carry a Focus Sash like Weavile) but it's definitely not for everyone.

I actually did initially have Rocky Helmet on Infernape and now I can't remember why/when I switched it out. Might try switching it back in again.

Hmmm using both Garchomp and Mamoswine is probably why you're losing hardcore to Rain teams. Not to mention you have a special/mixed attacking version. If you can ditch the Mamoswine altogether that would be best, otherwise check out the Battle Spot Doubles Analysis for Mamo, as it will still be mostly relevant to this competition. But this is where you could add a dedicated rain check for your team. I'm honestly not sure what the best one-Pokemon answer is to it but Hidden Power Fire Venusaur would do ok.

Yeah I wanted something with snow cloak for hail reasons but hail just... hasn't happened. Sod's law dictates, of course, that if I ditch it I'll be facing nothing but hail. I was carrying grass knot on Raichu to try and do some damage to rain teams but he's just too frail to hold up. I'll give HPFire Venusaur a try out and get my friend to put breeding mamo on low priority and get the other stuff done first so I have time to try and find a rain counter.

Gengar looks fine too. Sludge Bomb might be better; it hits Ludicolo for nice damage and can tank a move from it with the Sash intact, and also allows you to hit things like Smeargle and Porygon2 if you need. You have Steel-types covered so no need to really worry about not being able to hit them with Gengar... Only thing Shadow Ball does is hit Cresselia hard.

Gengar was in initially as a fast taunter to stop trick room/gravity/calm mind/dark void but he's been pretty useful generally. I'm probably biased since psychic/ghost are my faves forever. Will switch out for Sludge Bomb.

I hope this somewhat helped!

You're my best friend now.

This is the first team I've ever built from scratch so sorry if I seem completely dumb ;)

EDITED TO ADD
Possible Venusaur build?


Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Secondary sludge bomb to deal with Ludicolo in case Gengar isn't about. Sleep Powder to just be That Guy.

 

[cant say]

Gengar was in initially as a fast taunter to stop trick room/gravity/calm mind/dark void but he's been pretty useful generally. I'm probably biased since psychic/ghost are my faves forever. Will switch out for Sludge Bomb.

Oh I didn't mean get rid of Taunt, because yeah that's really good for the reasons you mentioned! Drop Shadow Ball for it. Or Will-O-Wisp if you really want to keep Shadow Ball...

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Secondary sludge bomb to deal with Ludicolo in case Gengar isn't about. Sleep Powder to just be That Guy.

yeah that looks fine too. I would personally use Protect over Sleep Powder because it's doubles but each to their own I guess. Chlorophyll would be better incase you run into any sun teams but breeding that with HP Fire will be a task..

 

[HappyCigs]

Oh I didn't mean get rid of Taunt, because yeah that's really good for the reasons you mentioned! Drop Shadow Ball for it. Or Will-O-Wisp if you really want to keep Shadow Ball...

Sorry, that was my own terrible phrasing. I did switch out Shadow Ball for it (WoW has been helpful). Was just explaining why he was there initially as his primary usage, although now he has a secondary one as well.

yeah that looks fine too. I would personally use Protect over Sleep Powder because it's doubles but each to their own I guess. Chlorophyll would be better incase you run into any sun teams but breeding that with HP Fire will be a task..

My sleep powder has yet to actually connect on anything because RNJesus has a personal vendetta against me that transcends all gaming, so yeah probably. Not gonna try and get Chlorophyll though, gonna be a struggle to get everything bred and raised as it is, I think ;)

 

[Turnip123]

Theorymon I've been testing TR too, and also realized Dusclops is pretty awesome. I haven't tried weakness policy rhyperior, but I have had a lot of success with weakness policy + explosion Golem! I struggle with dark void Smeargle, but I hope no one brings it on cartridge...

Love using TR since all my favorites like Torkoal and Dusclops are sooo slow (and also just plain bad in singles )

 

[MegaSimon]

Hey guys!
I was wanting to try out this meta a bit, but I have no clue how to play doubles xD

Is there a link which can get me up to date on how to play regular doubles, so I can take it from there? ^^
Thanks! :)

 

[Moody Magikarp]

Hey guys!
I was wanting to try out this meta a bit, but I have no clue how to play doubles xD

Is there a link which can get me up to date on how to play regular doubles, so I can take it from there? ^^
Thanks! :)

The best I've found is this http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue24/smogon_doubles

But keep in mind that article is on Smogon doubles which is a bit different since it lets you bring all six, but other than that, it's a solid crash course on the doubles format.

 

[MegaSimon]

The best I've found is this http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue24/smogon_doubles

But keep in mind that article is on Smogon doubles which is a bit different since it lets you bring all six, but other than that, it's a solid crash course on the doubles format.

Thanks!! :)

 

[Demantoid]

Hey guys!
I was wanting to try out this meta a bit, but I have no clue how to play doubles xD

Is there a link which can get me up to date on how to play regular doubles, so I can take it from there? ^^
Thanks! :)

Here's another guide from nuggetbridge: http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/801-differences-between-single-and-double-battles-in-pokémon/

 

[Moody Magikarp]

Here's another guide from nuggetbridge: http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/801-differences-between-single-and-double-battles-in-pokémon/

Yeah, that one's a lot better, mainly because it doesn't list stuff that's banned in all competitive play like Shaymin-S.

 

[Theorymon]

Something I think a lot of people have been underating in this metagame is Wide Guard. When I was using Hitmontop, it seemed like a lot of teams didn't really have backup plans for when a Pokemon could shut down their spread moves. Make sure you watch out for that in the real competition!

 

[Tonio]

My team relies on a simple strategy : set up Tailwind with Zapdos, sacrifice Staraptor with Final Gambit to let a powerful (but normally slow) pokemon sweep. For example, I use Banded Heracross and Life Orb Abomasnow. But this doesn't work all the time and I'm very weak to Fire (especially Heat Wave). My other mons are Infernape and Magmortar but I don't find them a utility :/
Any advices ?

 

[Theorymon]

My team relies on a simple strategy : set up Tailwind with Zapdos, sacrifice Staraptor with Final Gambit to let a powerful (but normally slow) pokemon sweep. For example, I use Banded Heracross and Life Orb Abomasnow. But this doesn't work all the time and I'm very weak to Fire (especially Heat Wave). My other mons are Infernape and Magmortar but I don't find them a utility :/
Any advices ?

You could slap on an Azumarill (that won't help against Zapdos however), or if you really want to solve the Heat Wave problem, you could use Politoed + Ludicolo. A lot of people just use those two to form a Rain core, so you could still use Abomasnow. Finally, I've seen some people use Hitmontop with these kind of teams to block Heat Wave, though that wouldn't solve your issues with the likes of Arcanine and Entei.

I wouldn't really bother with Magmortar btw. If you want a better Fire-type, I'd look at Arcanine or Entei, who can also help with your Heat Wave problem more. Arcanine is probably the best bet for your team because of Intimidate, as Entei is more dangerous when you pair it wit set up sweepers because of Psych Up.

 

[Tonio]

Thanks ! I will try Rain and maybe the fire mons in the next few days.

[EDIT] Since my team struggles against Trick Room too, I can maybe add Hariyama, in a variant of Hitmonlee. It has Fake Out and Wide Guard too but Thick Fat instead of Intimidate, which can help me against Heat Wave users. Finally, it's slower than Hitmonlee to help against Trick Room.

 

[VenusaurOmega]

I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that Earthquake may not be as useful as it uses to be. Electric-types that might be used here will be inmune to it, like Rotom forms or Zapdos. The same goes for Poison-types like Gengar. Steel-types like Scizor only take neutral damage. As for Fire-types, Infernape and Arcanine should be careful, but they have many other checks so you don't have to rely on Earth. As for Rock-types, I only see Tyranitar or Cradily with chances of taking a spot on the team, but Cradily takes neutral damage.

If someone uses either Earthquake or Earth Power, it may appreciate Helping Hand Support. And even then, Flying-types and Levitate users are everywhere.

 

[Theorymon]

I know its a bit latetish for this, but considering the amount of usable Pokemon and how long it took for the metagame to stabalize, me, kamikaze17 , and Psynergy have come up with a viability list! We still got a bit over a week before the tournament begins for real, so I think we should try to hammer this out more so people who are just getting into the tournament metagame can get prepared!

Here's the list so far (put it into alphabetical order for each rank because we probably aren't gonna divide these sections too much). Also, Antar was awesome enough to get Sinnoh Classic usage stats for the month of June. They're probably a bit out of date, but most of the Pokemon there aren't too surprising to say the least! http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-06/sinnohclassic-1630.txt

S

Azumarill
Cresselia
Scizor

A

Abomasnow
Arcanine
Garchomp
Gengar
Hitmontop
Latios
Ludicolo
Metagross
Politoed
Snorlax
Weavile
Zapdos

B

Breloom
Clefable
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Entei
Gardevoir
Gyarados
Hariyama
Heracross
Infernape
Kingdra
Moltres
Ninetales
Porygon2
Raichu
Raikou
Rhyperior
Rotom-W
Sableye
Salamence
Smeargle
Staraptor
Suicune
Tangela
Togekiss
Yanmega


C

Clefairy
Crobat
Illumise
Lucario
Magmar
Milotic
Rotom-H
Toxicroak
Typhlosion


D

Pachirisu
Parasect
Unranked (need more opinions on these)

Blaziken
Bronzong
Camerupt
Electabuzz
Gastrodon
Latias
Machamp
Mamoswine
Rotom-Frost
Tangrowth
Venusaur

 

[Tonio]

Heracross is not in the rankings ? A or B rank should be perfect for him :)

 

[Theorymon]

Heracross is not in the rankings ? A or B rank should be perfect for him :)

Ah my bad, must have accidentally deleted him when I copy + pasted! I put him in B. The speed can be a problem and it isn't as splashable as Hitmontop, but its still pretty dangerous and slams Cresselia, which is a big plus for a Fighting-type imo!

 

[Spiritman]

My only question is if i can use old pokemons with new abilities... like... Sableye Prankster... or Politoed Drizzle

 

[Demantoid]

My only question is if i can use old pokemons with new abilities... like... Sableye Prankster... or Politoed Drizzle

Yes you are able to.

 

[WilkoB]

I'm not going to participate in this tournament because i won't have the time but wouldnt scarf imprison smeargle be an option with Imprison/Dark Void/Entrainment/(tranform?)