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DPP OU Six Paths Of Pain

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by tobi10, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. tobi10

    tobi10

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    Six Paths Of Pain

    [​IMG]

    (I know that the picture does not have anything to do with Pokemon or the title of the team, but it is still pretty darn cool!)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I made this team in 2011 after being greatly influenced by my friend, panamaxis. This set of six Pokemon helped me win Sinnoh Cup, beating every player I faced against, except for user Iconic. My team has pretty standard Pokemon but with really weird sets, which I think is mostly the reason of its success. I started off with Celebi + Dugtrio, a combination I fell in love with, thanks to pana! Heatran has great synergy with Celebi which means that I can play around those two, as well, so I added him. It happens that Celebi tends to attract Pokemon that are easily trapped by Dugtrio, like Blissey, Heatran, or Tyranitar (which are all counters to my main sweeper, Zapdos.) I had this new Zapdos set I have been playing around for some time, and I decided to give it a try with this team. I added Starmie because he is a good stall-breaker and can help Zapdos sweeping by removing Stealth Rock / crippling Blissey. I knew that my last Pokemon was going to be a revenge killer, so I chose one of the best ones in the metagame, Raikou.

    I never expected this team to be so solid, or effective as it was, and this is in fact my best team ever created - I felt the need to honour it with a rate my team, and a special one, my retirement from Pokemon RMT.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Choice Specs
    Natural Cure
    Timid
    252 Spe / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def

    Hydro Pump / Surf
    Psychic
    Trick
    Rapid Spin

    Starmie is an excellent anti-lead; not only he can cripple opposing leads, he can also spin away their valuable Stealth Rock / (Toxic) Spikes. If I am forced out, then I still have a very potent offensive force with my, because a Specs Hydro Pump hurts a lot, even when it is resisted. I usually use Trick on the Stealth Rock, then Rapid Spin on the switch. If I am forced out I can spam Hydro Pump / Psychic later in the game, or if I am facing a stall-team, try to get a Trick on Blissey. Starmie is very valuable for the team because it performs much better without having to deal with residual damage. My combination of Water and Psychic might seem strange but it actually has good coverage, and I can still 2HKO Shaymin and Rotom-A with Physic. This guy is my favorite lead, and my only concern are Azelf because they are usually Band or Scarf (if I win the speed tie I OHKO, but the same can be said for them, so I usually do not risk Starmie and just switch to Heatran vs Azelf.)

    [​IMG]



    Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
    Flash Fire
    Hasty
    252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk

    Stealth Rock
    Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    Earth Power
    Explosion

    I think that Heatran is the most "normal" Pokemon on my team, because it has a standard set. I do not care, because it really works very nicely! Heatran can easily switch in on Spikers and set up Stealth Rock, which is its main job. After that its roles include luring Tyranitar, other Heatran, and Swampert. Having these Pokemon weakened help Zapdos (or even Raikou in the right conditions) to clean the game in the end. Stealth Rock is necessary for my team, especially since specially because I do not use Spikes. I like the power of Fire Blast, but I ended up switching it because I missed too much. Earth Power is standard and is used to remove Shuca Berry from Heatran and weakening Tyranitar (which makes Dugtrios job easier) and Explosion is a last resort move I can use to get a switch-in without taking damage or just deal lots of damage when I am low on health.

    There is not much to say about Heatran, except that he is cool.


    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    Modest
    236 HP / 228 SpAtk / 44 Spe

    Leaf Storm
    Hidden Power Fire
    Recover
    U-Turn

    Celebi has been a favorite of mine since Silver / Gold, and it is part of the main core of my team (formed between Starmie and Heatran.) With this set I can hit very hard with Leaf Storm or Hidden Power, and still be bulky enough to take on guys like Gyarados, Suicune and Rotom-A. Celebi is just pretty awesome I cannot describe it. Leaf Storm hits really hard is a STAB move that actually does heavy damage to Rotom and Vaporeon. Hidden Power allows me to hit Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and other Grass types like Celebi and Shaymin for pretty good damage. With Recover I can keep alive longer throughout the game, which is very good for me, and finally U-Turn lets me scout to gain momentum and send Dugtrio unharmed against most of the Pokemon that Celebi attract. I love Celebi.

    [​IMG]

    Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
    Arena Trap
    Jolly
    252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Pursuit
    Aerial Ace

    Dugtrio is not the sweeper of this team, but without it I would not be able to win. He is my secret weapon used to eliminate Zapdoss counters. I like how it is almost guaranteed to get at least one kill during a match, and an important one, like Heatran, Tyranitar, Jirachi, or Blissey. He usually switches in undamaged because of Celebis U-Turn, which makes things even easier for him. Earthquake and Stone Edge give me pretty good coverage and are the moves I find myself using the most. The other two are just fillers in case I catch a Scarf Rotom using Trick / Tbolt or to revenge kill Breloom or Heracross. This guy traps and takes out the bad guys to let my Zapdos sweep, he is a real team player!





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    Raikou @ Choice Scarf
    Pressure
    Rash
    252 Spe / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def

    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Ice
    Aura Sphere
    Shadow Ball

    I have been using Scarf Raikou since early 2011, but I never took him seriously because he lacked a reliable fourth move; this changed with the introduction of Aura Sphere, though! Now I found myself able to revenge kill Tyranitar and Lucario, as well as hitting Magnezone and Heatran for Super Effective damage, which is just priceless on a Scarf user. With Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice I get nearly perfect coverage to revenge kill stuff like Gyarados and Dragonite if they manage to set up. Since Celebi is slow, I can U-Turn after my opponent which allows me to see if they attack or set up, so I can send Raikou undamaged. Raikou is in my opinion the best Scarfer in the game at the moment, with its high speed, special attack, bulk and coverage.


    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Pressure
    Modest
    240 HP / 226 SpAtk / 44 Spe

    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Ice
    Roost
    Agility

    This set is the definition of badassery! After and Agility I can outspeed even Scarf Flygon and OHKO him with Hidden Power. Late game with its counters gone, there is not much that can stop this beast. This is probably the most anti-metagame sweeper there is at the moment, because he tears FWG cores easily, and damage the common fillers of those teams, Dragon and Steel. Zapdos is not only really fast after an Agility, he is actually very strong and bulky too (I can even recover LO / Sand damage with Roost!) Zapdos is my favorite sweeper and I made this team around him, I owe it so much.


    Thanks for everything, and goodbye everyone!
  2. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,924
    cool team man

    there's no point in making big changes since the team obviously works great, the only things i might consider are:
    1) Sucker Punch/Night Slash > AA on duggy
    2) Max s.atk on zapdos and drop some hp evs.

    AA duggy is cool in theory but no-one ever uses heracross and you basically have to double switch into breloom for you to even want to use it, because once something's slept nothing on your team actually dies for you to bring in breloom for the revenge kill since you have recover celebi.

    Sucker Punch helps for random situations (like starmie because they ALWAYS attack and its not uncommon to come in for the revenge kill and have a situation where SP does the job but EQ doesn't) and is just nice to have up your sleeve but night slash is cool for non-choice rotoms and gengar when if you really need to OHKO it rather than do 70ish with pursuit.

    2)Unless the hp evs do something important that I'm not aware of I'd personally rather go max s.atk since zapdos's damage range is really close to the 2HKO on stuff like min hp ttars and heatrans IIRC? So that'd help with that.

    Timid celebi and enough speed to outspeed lucario might be nice too (or enough to beat adamant luke if you really like the extra s.atk) as lucario is probably the biggest threat to your team (any version atm) and at least this ev change would help with the SDers, agility is well...still annoying but it's probably not worth changing any members to try and do better against it.

    Apart from that you could consider changing heatrans item since with hasty you don't take the EQs as well as you'd like but i can't really think of a better change for it so its probably best to keep it for the random EP celebis floating around.

    But yeah cool team, glad I had some small part in helping you make it.
  3. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,335
    As pana said changing Aerial Ace is a good idea. Maybe Beat Up could be useful for beating Blissey, especially Bold Max HP since I'm pretty sure that isn't 2HKOed, not to mention Wish Protect variants. Congrats again for Sinnoh, sweet team.
  4. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    747
    This team is not only really good its also stylish!

    Well after thinking really hard i didnt find much to improve.

    The only change i recommend is changing your Zapdos' EV-Spread to the following 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe which enables you to outspeed the Standard Choice Scarf Infernape. Eh and i agree with Pana that maxing out your Special Attack is well worth it (max Spa Life Orb Tbolt 3hkoes SDefHeatran almost all the time without SR and always with for example). You can run even more Speed EV's for Stuff like Scarf-Gengar but honestly noone uses that whereas quite a few people use Scarfnape.

    Glad you shared this great team with us!
  5. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arena Tycoonis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Champion
    Moderator

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    Im against changing AA because RKing Breloom is great
    As i told you a couple of months ago, this is a great team
  6. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,771
    I second Panamaxis's suggestions.

    I just tested this, and I have been using 236 HP / 92 SAtk / 180 Spd Modest Celebi. Not only does it help with Lucario, it also can outrun offensive Suicune which could get annoying.

    Sucker Punch also makes up for the loss of bulk on Zapdos and Celebi. Since they wouldn't be able to check Starmie as well.
  7. tobi10

    tobi10

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    Thank you guys, I will test all the suggestions and post the results later!
  8. george182

    george182

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    I really like the inventiveness of this team, it is an excellent example of bulldoze offense, using pokemon with similar counters to bulldoze through that counter and then steamrole through the rest of the opponents team. But it does seem to have quite few problems defensively and there are a few common counters to your pokemon that this team struggles to break down.

    Firstly defensively this team has quite a bit of trouble with the following OU threats:

    • Sword dance Lucaro. Capable of setting up on Dugtrio and Raikou, it can also set up by forcing out your pokemon. After a sword dance every single one of your pokemon is OHKOed by the standard adamant lucario. This includes zapdos, with Close combat doing 74.5% - 87.9%, will almost always KO after SR. A well played Lucario can also be a huge threat just due to the risk of sword dance, allowing it to KO loads of your pokemon as often times your forced to stay in.
    • Tyranitar. Scarf tar can trap Celebi and Starmie. I know dugtrio can trap it, but after it pursuits Celebi/Starmie the damage is done. The shuca berry DD set is also a huge problem, and your only way to beat it is to get raikou in, a move that is either very risky, or will cost you a pokemon.
    • Heatran. Shuca variants really hurt your team, your only check is your lead and Dugtrio can't even revenge kill these variants. Scarf Heatran is such a huge threat, especially if dugtrio is bellow 62.6% - 73.9%, because thats how much Earthpower will do to it. Hp Grass, Hp ice and Fire blast all OHKO dugtrio.
    • Gengar. Sets up a sub on Dugtrio/Celebi and proceeds to crush. Your only check is raikou, which can only check Gengar once.
    • Kingdra. DD or rain dance, both really hurt your team.
    • Rotom-W. Same as gengar really any set that can switch attacks is a huge pain, mainly the life orb set.
    • Zapdos. Nothing on your team can beat sub toxic zapdos once it gets a sub up. Pressure and sub stalling will make Heatran and Dugtrio unable to beat it.
    • Dragonite. Offensive DD, Bulky DD, Mix, Banded, nothing on your team can switch into Dragonite and it threatens your whole team. Nothing on your team can OHKO the quite recently popular bulky DD cleric set and it could set up really easily.
    • LO Aerodactyl. Nothing can switch into this set, and you can only kill it with scarf raikou.
    • Weavile. Not too popular, but a life orb set is even more threatening that aerodactyl.
    • Electivire. If it gets a speed boost, your in for a world of pain.
    • Mamoswine. Again nothing can switch into Mamoswine and you can't trap it with dugtrio due to ice shard.
    • Curse Snorlax. After a curse your only physical attacker Dugtrio only does 28.5% - 33.9%. Heatrans Explosion only does 53% - 62.4%. So you can't even switch to Heatran explode then finish it off with Dugtrio, even with SR in play, due to leftovers. Snorlax is also not commonly paired with Tyranitar or Hippowdon, so it's unlikely there will be SS up.


    Also will have problems with defensive teams, two huge problems I see:

    • Blissey. Dugtrio can't 2hko Blissey a leftovers unless it gets a crit, 45% - 52.9%. Blissey will gradually regain Hp and then just attack Dugtrio. Wish + Protect is probably the worst variant for you.
    • Swampert (Roar). Only 1 swampert counter and it's hit well by all forms of entry hazards.

    Your team also hates entry hazards, 5 pokemon are hit by spikes and your only immunity to spikes is SR weak. You also have 4 toxic spike weaknesses.


    To fix this I recommend:

    Scarf rotom-W over Raikou. Rotom-W outspeeds all DDers and has trick to cripple pokemon like Blissey/Snorlax. Immune to Spikes + Toxic spikes, checks Lucario, gives you a solid switch into scarf Flygon early game as they normally u-turn/eq. Rotom has more resistances making it easier to switch into sweepers.

    Rotom-W Import (open)
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hydro Pump
    - Trick


    Leech Seed Shaymin. Leech seed means you beat special walls like Blissey and Snorlax and Dugtrio can easily trap a leech seeded Blissey. Shaymin helps out against Tyranitar, Gengar and Rotom forms. Recover with Celebi is also a huge momentum screwer, this is a very offensive team so preventing the opponent from healing its pokemon should be this teams main priority, not healing yourself. Leech seed allows you to still recovery Hp and easily keep up offensive pressure. Bellow is my favourite ev spread, outspeeding Jolly Lucario with a nice amount of bulk and special attack. Alternatively, you could try a leech seed Venusaur allowing you to absorb toxic spikes and venusaur can abuse sleep powder to cripple it's switch ins. However Venusaur has worse stats than Shaymin. With the addition of Rotom it's important to change Celebi as the Ghost and Dark weakness becomes very unappealing.

    Shaymin + Venusaur Import (open)
    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 240 HP / 88 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Venusaur (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 SAtk / 176 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Leech Seed


    Shaymin/Venusaur and Rotom help you out against alot of the threats your team has trouble with. I hope these changes are helpful and don't mess up the offensive synergy too much.

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