Ubers Skarmory [QC III/III, GP II/II]

steelskitty

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Overview
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Skarmory has always been a mixed bag in Ubers. It boasts the same Defense stat as Groudon and a unique and dangerous Steel / Flying defensive typing that gives it ten resistances and two immunities. Skarmory also has access to multiple entry hazards; however, unlike many other Steel-types, it boasts reliable recovery and the ability to shut down other hazard setters and Defoggers on the switch-in with Taunt. Sturdy is another situational benefit to using Skarmory; the ability enables it to stay in versus something that could otherwise OHKO it at full health, such as Mega Blaziken or Geomancy Xerneas, and proceed to phaze it out or attack it. Skarmory even has decent versatility, being able to viably run both a specially defensive set to mess up support Arceus as well as a physically defensive set that walls a decent number of prominent Ubers even more effectively. However, Skarmory's unique defensive typing can also prove to be its downfall. While it may shut down some notable things such as Extreme Killer Arceus, it is massively threatened by other physical attackers such as Ho-Oh and Zekrom. Additionally, 65 HP / 70 Special Defense is simply too weak to sponge hits from the plethora of special attackers in Ubers; it goes without saying that a specially defensive spread alone will not let Skarmory check things like Kyogre, Arceus-Electric, and Palkia. On top of all this, Skarmory has lost its coveted Dark and Ghost resistances, so its specially defensive set's performance has suffered greatly. Though it has lost a lot of its versatility, it is still a stretch to call Skarmory unviable; it still succeeds at being possibly the best answer to physical attackers such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Tyranitar, and Swords Dance Arceus-Ground in the game and has gained the ability to wall new threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Mewtwo X with ease.

Standard
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name: Standard
move 1: Roost
move 2: Taunt / Toxic
move 3: Spikes / Defog / Stealth Rock
move 4: Whirlwind / Brave Bird
ability: Sturdy
item: Shed Shell / Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Bold / Impish

Moves
========

The first slot is reserved exclusively for Roost; reliable recovery is one of Skarmory's main niches over other Steel-types and is thus an absolute necessity. The next slots, however, are not as straightforward. Toxic is ideal if Skarmory chooses to run Defog in place of an entry hazard, so it can better pressure support Arceus (however, a specially defensive set, as explained below, is more ideal for this role). Taunt is best to pressure other hazard setters and Defog users on the switch-in if it should run hazards. Defog allows Skarmory to remove dangerous hazards such as Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes; Skarmory's immunity to both makes its job easier. Spikes is generally preferred to Stealth Rock due to this move's limited distribution in Ubers, but Stealth Rock is fine if it absolutely can not be fit anywhere else. The last slot is a toss-up. Whirlwind is key for phazing out Extreme Killer Arceus so it cannot attain too many boosts. However, Brave Bird has legitimate use for hitting Mega Mewtwo X (which otherwise Taunts and shuts Skarmory down), and is nice as a last-ditch way to take down Mega Blaziken. It also hits miscellaneous Pokemon like Scolipede and Amoonguss.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense allow Skarmory to better take attacks from the aforementioned physical attackers. However, the only relevant thing said investment helps with is Extreme Killer Arceus, which can 2HKO 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory with Silk Scarf equipped at +4 Attack. If this is not a concern, Skarmory can run a spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD, which lets it beat Defog support Arceus in a one-on-one situation (this can be very useful in conjunction with an entry hazard such as Spikes). Bold is an option on Skarmory that do not run Brave Bird to reduce Foul Play damage. If it should carry that move, then just run an Impish nature. Regarding item choice, Shed Shell is ideal to escape Mega Gengar, which can otherwise eliminate Skarmory not running Brave Bird. Do note, however, that with 12 Atk EVs, Brave Bird will 2HKO standard Mega Gengar, meaning Skarmory can win if Mega Gengar switches in or chooses to Taunt it first. Rocky Helmet is also a good item to help with Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mewtwo X, and Extreme Killer Arceus, as well as get chip damage on the random physical attackers that Skarmory loves to switch in on. Finally, Leftovers is an item that grants longevity to Skarmory, though it is not especially necessary for it.

Usage Tips
=========

Perhaps the most important thing to remember when using Skarmory is that it is not a special wall by any means. Even neutral support Arceus' Judgment stands a good chance of 2HKOing it with just a little prior damage, so it must be played incredibly conservatively versus any special attacker with any power. However, what Skarmory loses in special bulk, it makes up for in massive physical bulk which rivals that of Groudon. It is often a great answer to bulky Ground-types such as Landorus-T, Groudon, and Hippowdon, easily Defogging, Taunting, or setting entry hazards versus them. No other Steel-type barring the uncommon Bronzong can accomplish this, and this is one of Skarmory's biggest niches over Mega Scizor.

Team Options
==========

Due to its being forced out by some physical attackers and Zekrom unlike most Steel-types, Skarmory can be difficult to build around. It fits well alongside things that generally take special attacks, such as Assault Vest Palkia, but be sure to have an answer to the aforementioned Zekrom. A non-Steel-type Xerneas check is also borderline mandatory to avoid overlap, so Ho-Oh, specially defensive Roar Xerneas, and specially defensive Kyogre can all make good teammates. Hippowdon, Gliscor, and Landorus-T are all appreciated for taking on Zekrom, Ho-Oh, and Mega Blaziken to some extent. Arceus-Water, especially its Calm Mind variant, makes a good teammate due to its ability to beat Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Palkia and Mega Blaziken for Skarmory, while the latter can compensate for the lack of a support Arceus by providing Defog and checking opposing Swords Dance Arceus. Arceus-Electric is in a similar boat, but it trades the ability to easily take on Mega Blaziken for the ability to sponge Electric attacks for Skarmory and force out opposing Ho-Oh. Chople Berry Tyranitar is acceptable as a teammate, as it can Pursuit-trap Mega Gengar while Skarmory walls Hippowdon and Groudon, assuming the latter lacks a Fire move. Skarmory itself is more suited to balance than hyper offense due to its lack of offensive presence and impressive synergy with the aforementioned Pokemon. However, it is ideal to pressure Defoggers with teammates, especially with Spikes Skarmory, so running it on an offensive team is not entirely out of the question.

Other Options
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Skarmory truly has a dearth of viable other options. Rock Slide is a possibility for damaging Ho-Oh on the switch-in, but is pathetically weak and generally useless outside of this. Counter can be fun for OHKOing Ho-Oh and dishing out serious damage to opposing Extreme Killer Arceus or anything that would knock Skarmory down to its Sturdy range with a physical attack, but Brave Bird and Whirlwind are generally more useful all-around. Custap Berry, Skarmory's best item for attempting to suicide lead last generation, is currently unobtainable, otherwise it would be listed as an option.

Checks & Counters
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**Turboblaze and Teravolt** The four holders of these abilities, Zekrom, Reshiram, and both Kyurem formes, deserve a special mention since they boast the ability to KO Skarmory through Sturdy.

**Taunt Users**: Due to Skarmory's defensive nature, anything with access to the coveted Taunt is phenomenal at shutting down Skarmory. Deoxys-S, Yveltal, Mega Gengar (assuming Skarmory lacks Shed Shell), fast Gliscor, Whimsicott (assuming Skarmory lacks Brave Bird), Thundurus, Sableye, Stalltwo, and even opposing Skarmory will force out your own Skarmory with ease.

**Powerful Special Attackers**: It has been stressed many times, but Skarmory cannot hope to take on anything that can hit it powerfully from the special spectrum. Dialga, Kyogre, Palkia, 252 SpA Calm Mind Arceus, any Mewtwo with a Fire move, offensive Xerneas, Darkrai, and many others can immediately dispose of Skarmory.

**Physical Attackers With a Type Advantage** Blaziken, Mega Blaziken, Victini, and Ho-Oh are all capable of eliminating Skarmory with ease, though they must be wary of the rare Counter or Brave Bird in Blaziken's case. Ho-Oh deserves a special mention since it can set up a Substitute or just smash Skarmory with a powerful attack should it predict wrong.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic / Taunt
move 3: Spikes / Defog
move 4: Whirlwind / Stealth Rock / Brave Bird
ability: Sturdy
item: Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
nature: Bold / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sdef

Moves
========

-Roost is essentially mandatory, recovery is sexy and a must on Skarmory.
-Toxic is also quite ideal as your main form of damage output. Without it, Skarmory is a wall incapable of doing anything besides small chip damage. Taunt can be used instead of it, however, to choke things such as support Defog Arceus on the switch.
-Defog is key, as Skarmory finds the opportunity to use it versus two of the most dangerous threats of this generation (Kangaskhan-Mega and Extremekiller Arceus) as well as making a nice partner for SR-weak Pokemon like Ho-oh generally. Spikes can be used to set up on the aforementioned threats, too.
-The last slot is a tossup-- Whirlwind is key for phazing out threats so they don't boost get too many boosts up on you. Nice for Extremekiller Arceus that thinks it can set up on you. Stealth Rock works on Skarmory much like it did last generation; it isn't very great. Brave Bird actually has legitimate use for hitting Mega-Mewtwo-X and Amoongus, as well as getting chip damage on a few things and being generally awesome in some (albeit not that many) situations.

Set Details
========

-Rocky Helmet is generally better than Leftovers. Getting massive chip damage on whatever tries to make contact with you is very nice, especially for things such as MegaKanga which could otherwise just set up on you with Power Up Punch.

-Bold can be used to reduce Foul Play and confusion damage, but use Impish if you run BB.

-Skarmory can run a Specially Defensive spread to some effect- this lets it take hits from things such as support Arceus better. However, this is pretty bad, as Supportceus pressures you with WoW and it's generally best to have as much physical bulk as possible.

-Twelve Attack EVs can be run if Skarmory is using Brave Bird, to get a guaranteed 2HKO on Gengar-Mega.

Usage Tips
=========

-Skarmory is quite weak versus several prominent special attackers, such as Palkia, Mega-Gengar, and Kyogre. With 65 HP/70 Sdef, it falls to more dangerous attacks, but is capable of taking hits versus things such as support Arceus.

-Its main use, however, is being an incredibly frustrating physical wall that shuts down several prominent physical attackers,(Kangaskhan-Mega, Extremekiller Arceus, Mega-Mewtwo-X, Landorus-T) and it should be played as such.

-There really isn't that much else to say about Skarmory. It's one of the select few solid Extremekiller Arceus checks that packs a recovery move (some may go as far to say that it's an Extremekiller counter), and utterly walling Kangaskhan-Mega is too good to pass up considering how threatening that is. Outside of these threats, Skarmory doesn't have that much walling capability, but this is just enough to niche itself in Ubers.

Team Options
==========

-Skarmory is mildly difficult to build around. It fits well with things that generally take special attacks such as Ho-oh and Assault Vest Palkia, but be sure to have an answer to Zekrom. Note that it's nice to have some form of hazard control with its teammates, as keeping Sturdy intact is ideal so it can take borderline any hit.

-Is more suited to balance than Hyper Offense due to its lack of offensive presence.

-Try to pressure defoggers with teammates, especially if you're running Spikes Skarmory.

-Blissey, Chansey and Sylveon are good alongside it to form a frustrating all-around walling core, but it's very necessary to pack answers to Mega-Gengar and both forms of Blaziken.

-Mega-Tyranitar is acceptable as a teammate, as it can pursuit-trap Mega-Gengar, one of your biggest checks, whilst Skarmory walls Hippowdon and Groudon for it (assuming the latter lacks a Fire move).

Other Options
########

-Rock Slide hits Ho-oh on the switchin.

-Custap Berry is unobtainable (thanks Shellshocker), so Skarmory's Custap set will not be listed in the final analysis.

-Skarmory can run a Specially Defensive of 252 HP / 252 Sdef / 4 Def Careful, to better take hits from support Arceus. As mentioned previously, it isn't all that great.

Checks & Counters
########
-Any Special Atacker with any sort of power or way of hitting you at least neutrally.
-Select Physical Attackers, such as Zekrom and Blaziken can abuse Skarmory's 2 weaknesses. Zekrom's Terravolt means it OHKOs you through Sturdy.
-Ho-oh deserves a special mention as it turns Skarmory lacking Whirlwind into setup fodder for a substitute which can instantly put your team in a worse position.
-This is also the case with Mega-Gengar, as all you can do is phaze it out while it 2HKOs you.
-Kyurem-White and Reshiram, even though they lost most viability, also hurt due to the ability to bypass sturdy and threaten the rest of Skarmory's teammates with powerful special attacks.
 
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Would have been nice if you posted in the index btw

I dislike that slashing and stuff but I'll get back to that later on
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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Would have been nice if you posted in the index btw

I dislike that slashing and stuff but I'll get back to that later on
Ahh, sorry MM2. I completely forgot :(

As for the slashing, it's because Skarmory is essentially the definition of 4MSS in 6th gen Ubers. To make it less messy I could maybe turn it into two sets, but that just seems a little excessive.
 
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Fireburn

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Way too many slashes IMO:

move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Defog
move 4: Whirlwind / Brave Bird / Stealth Rock

Toxic is mandatory IMO because Skarmory has no way to actually beat the things it checks without being able to do some form of damage, and having Brave Bird as your sole damage dealing option from uninvested base 80 Attack is not too great. Defog is Skarm's best support option this gen and is a major reason why you would run it since it can easily find time to use it on the stuff it walls. WW is nice for cheeky EKillers, Xerneas if you're at full HP, and non-Taunt M2X, BB hits M2X with Taunt/Amoonguss/things they try to Taunt you, and SR is because SR, though Skarm generally isn't the best user of it.

Taunt IMO is OO this gen since Ferro/Forry have dropped off the face of the Earth and Skarm is too slow to Taunt anything else effectively, though it is still useful to harass walls and Defoggers that might try to blow away your Rocks. Skarm has 4MSS anyway and I think the other moves are more useful/important.
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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Way too many slashes IMO:

move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Defog
move 4: Whirlwind / Brave Bird / Stealth Rock

Toxic is mandatory IMO because Skarmory has no way to actually beat the things it checks without being able to do some form of damage, and having Brave Bird as your sole damage dealing option from uninvested base 80 Attack is not too great. Defog is Skarm's best support option this gen and is a major reason why you would run it since it can easily find time to use it on the stuff it walls. WW is nice for cheeky EKillers, Xerneas if you're at full HP, and non-Taunt M2X, BB hits M2X with Taunt/Amoonguss/things they try to Taunt you, and SR is because SR, though Skarm generally isn't the best user of it.

Taunt IMO is OO this gen since Ferro/Forry have dropped off the face of the Earth and Skarm is too slow to Taunt anything else effectively, though it is still useful to harass walls and Defoggers that might try to blow away your Rocks. Skarm has 4MSS anyway and I think the other moves are more useful/important.
Is updated.
 
First off I don't understand why you are acting so cocky in an smogon pokemon analysis thread, it's fucking obnoxious.

also, remove this line:
-Skarmer forms a really potent defensive core with Chansey and Support Arceus-Ground that walls most things in the metagame.
reason:
It is not a good idea to encourage players reading this analysis to build teams weak to Mega Gengar. Skarmory is already 2hkod, and Chansey is the ultimate Mega Gar bait (which you failed to mention anywhere in your post).

also:
Add Taunt as a slash to Toxic. You can Taunt on switches predicting defoggers.
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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First off I don't understand why you are acting so cocky in an smogon pokemon analysis thread, it's fucking obnoxious.

also, remove this line:
-Skarmer forms a really potent defensive core with Chansey and Support Arceus-Ground that walls most things in the metagame.
reason:
It is not a good idea to encourage players reading this analysis to build teams weak to Mega Gengar. Skarmory is already 2hkod, and Chansey is the ultimate Mega Gar bait (which you failed to mention anywhere in your post).

also:
Add Taunt as a slash to Toxic. You can Taunt on switches predicting defoggers.
I don't know why you think I'm being cocky, I just made a few jokes more or less. "-Roar can technically be used over Whirlwind, if you're hipster enough." could be re-worded I guess, but I'm not really seeing the issue.

You are indeed right about the Skarmory/Chansey/Groundceus core being horrid; after testing it more, it really doesn't work out at all.

I have no idea what Skarmory's set order/moves should be so I'm just sticking with Fireburn's format until more QCs chime in.
 
Donkey is QC so just add whatever he says.

The blurb about SR working on Skarm last gen is false (unless you mean Custap). It only works this gen because it'll likely be Defog'd away so you'll be able to take advantage of Skarm's bullk+typing to replace it multiple times. (as opposed to dropping extra Spikes like you would last gen)

Speed creep is never mentioned in analyses.

SpDef Skarm is still viable because it helps it in one-on-one scenarios with support Arceus, which is important for the sets running SR/Spikes. So make it an set details mention. (I'm considering even main set but going to playtest more) Also, take Spikes out of OO and slash it with Defog, with Toxic being a main slash Skarmory can actually beat most Defog Arceus formes. (with the Spdef spread)

In general, the usage tips and teammates are bare and need more info. Especially with the SpDef that can actually take special attacks. (like neutral support arceus judgments) Checks/counters will need to adjust as well but organization for that is going to have to wait.
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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Donkey is QC so just add whatever he says.

The blurb about SR working on Skarm last gen is false (unless you mean Custap). It only works this gen because it'll likely be Defog'd away so you'll be able to take advantage of Skarm's bullk+typing to replace it multiple times. (as opposed to dropping extra Spikes like you would last gen)

Speed creep is never mentioned in analyses.

SpDef Skarm is still viable because it helps it in one-on-one scenarios with support Arceus, which is important for the sets running SR/Spikes. So make it an set details mention. (I'm considering even main set but going to playtest more) Also, take Spikes out of OO and slash it with Defog, with Toxic being a main slash Skarmory can actually beat most Defog Arceus formes. (with the Spdef spread)

In general, the usage tips and teammates are bare and need more info. Especially with the SpDef that can actually take special attacks. (like neutral support arceus judgments) Checks/counters will need to adjust as well but organization for that is going to have to wait.
Okay, I updated everything you said (I think). I have nothing besides Roar in OO now, though (and really don't know what else Skarmory can run).
 
Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention to remove Roar out of OO. I want that section to be only semi-legit things from now on so that it's sorta worth reading. Just stick Rock Slide in OO instead, it's a good example of something that is semi-legit but not really. Also, stick Custap variant in OO.


I'm also considering just splitting the two Skarmory sets (spdef and phys) since they play very differently and we have the space. I'll let the rest of the team pitch in.
 
Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention to remove Roar out of OO. I want that section to be only semi-legit things from now on so that it's sorta worth reading. Just stick Rock Slide in OO instead, it's a good example of something that is semi-legit but not really. Also, stick Custap variant in OO.


I'm also considering just splitting the two Skarmory sets (spdef and phys) since they play very differently and we have the space. I'll let the rest of the team pitch in.
i agree
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Iron head could be run in OO in theory.. as ur saying stuff that's semi legit but not really, if you have sturdy still up then I'm sure it could come in on something dieing to xern and iron head it (lol I have this calc: 240 Atk Skarmory Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO so.. if u were to run a custap set then with sturdy up it could counter Xerneas if you switch in on the geomancy).. definitely semi-legit at best xD If this is a really stupid idea just ignore it
 
If this is a really stupid idea just ignore it
While it's a cool idea in theory, your supposed Xerneas check is outclassed badly; the entire strategy hinges upon Skarmory being at 100% HP (which is not a given, despite the defog buff), and results in Skarm being pretty much dead afterwards. On top of that, your calculation deals with 4/0 Xerneas; most sets tend to run some HP investment, so it shouldn't be a safe 2hko. Lastly, and most importantly, the set is entirely outclassed by other checks/counters (Aegislash, Ho-oh, etc) that can do something useful for the team after removing Xerneas. I can't stress that enough.

tl;dr: Unreliable gimmick, not guaranteed 2hko on some Xern sets, outclassed. Not worth OO.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Fair enough, I waas just querying whether it was too stupid for OO or not

So yeah this pretty much just needs to be totally written up and then QC and GP checked now, but this is looking p much done ^_^
 

Alter

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-Custap Berry Skarmory can kind of be used as a suicide lead for Hyper Offense.
Just chiming in to say that the Custap Berry is currently unreleased/unobtainable in-game. There's not really much to be said in Skarmory's OO so it's probably either best left short or with a mention of why SD/Auto sets are too gimmicky and outclassed.
 

Fireburn

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Mention a specially defensive spread in OO.

Mention some more specific teammates such as Blissey, Sylveon, etc... special bulky things work well with Skarmory. However, Skarm is pretty vulnerable to Mega Gengar like Blissey and Sylveon, so mention (Mega) Tyranitar as a possible partner to Pursuit it.

This looks good otherwise. I'll stamp once you change these things.
 

steelskitty

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Mention a specially defensive spread in OO.

Mention some more specific teammates such as Blissey, Sylveon, etc... special bulky things work well with Skarmory. However, Skarm is pretty vulnerable to Mega Gengar like Blissey and Sylveon, so mention (Mega) Tyranitar as a possible partner to Pursuit it.

This looks good otherwise. I'll stamp once you change these things.
Alright, all this stuff is fixed.
 

Fireburn

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Also mention stuff that can handle the following Pokemon specifically: Zekrom, Ho-oh, Kyogre. So I'm thinking stuff like Ground-types, Arceus-Rock/Water (Skarm having Defog means you either have a free moveslot or can run a different set), Palkia, your own Zekrom, etc.

QC Approved 1/3
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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I talked with Donkey and MM2 a short while ago on IRC and it was agreed to move Sdef Skarmory to OO.

Awaiting more checks...
 

polop

Would you look at the time?
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QC: 2/3

Not really anything more to add. Fireburn covered the stuff I was going to say.

Delayed for too long IMO.
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Okay, before Polop ended up approving this, MM2 and I had a pretty lengthy conversation about Skarmory and I just didn't get around to mentioning it until now. Here is a Pastebin of it: http://pastebin.com/zMT55nrZ

Tl;Dr
-Reformat set
-Mention Shed Shell
-Sdef for Set Details or OO (I want other QCs' opinions on what this should end up as)
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
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Was waiting on response from another QC as to whether I should make these changes or not as I know that not everyone was keen on the idea of Sdef Skarmory earlier. Didn't realize it's been this long..
 

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