Skarmory (Update)

[KnightoftheWind]

Thank you firecape, de-menced the analysis.

 

[whistle]

correct me if I'm wrong but I'm certain the 96 speed EVs for the current CBtar analysis are specifically for outspeeding 20 speed EV skarmory. So if Skarmory starts running 28 speed EVs to outrun cbtar won't that just create an endless speed creep cycle in the analysis? Perhaps you should just change the spread to 252 hp/252 def/6 spe and make a mention of Skarmory's option to run speed EVs to outrun cbtar.

agreed with this which hasn't been responded to nor implemented. most of C&C also agrees. the same problem is in the taunt set, which only needs 92 speed evs to accomplish its stated goal of outpacing stall gyarados (unless my quick calc.exe check is incorrect; i didn't verify on shoddy/different stat calculator).

 

[KnightoftheWind]

In terms of what speed Skarmory should be, I wasn't exactly sure how to deal with that, having not seen that article yet. I shall place the appropriate stuff into the analysis.

whistle, the spread is designed to outspeed the current on-site Gyarados which runs 12 Speed EVs, not a Gyarados with no Speed EVs.

 

[Alan]

I don't think Specially Defensive should ever suggest being Careful. A choice Band Dragonite Outrage will do 33.2% - 39.5% to Impish whereas it will do 36.8% - 43.4% to Careful. Granted, CB Nite was never all too popular, but with Mence out of the picture, we will likely see a surge in Dragonites.

I also think on the Taunt set an alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe should be mentioned, since it allows you to outpace Adamant Tyranitar.

Also, why isn't the current Standard EV spread mentioned at all?

 

[cim]

As for Skarmory speed creep, as long as Skarmory has a min of 16 EVs and you make a mention of "adding more random EVs will let you beat CBtar" you'll be fine. Tyranitar wants 96 EVs not just for Skarmory but also for max speed Rhyperior so neither EVs are a waste.

 

[Colonel M]

Recommending a GP check on this one if possible. I found some errors even within the Overview, so definitely requesting it.

 

[Setsuna]

Apart from what Colonel_M just pointed out, I would like to see explained in the AC section of the Taunt set what are the Evs for, because people who have no experience with that set won't know why are they using those Evs, what do they accomplish, and so on.

EDIT: Every set presents the same problem with the Evs comments -- they are not mentioned anywhere in AC, and saying what are the Evs for is imperative in almost every analysis. So please, these parts should be written as soon as possible before the GP team do its checks.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Apart from what Colonel_M just pointed out, I would like to see explained in the AC section of the Taunt set what are the Evs for, because people who have no experience with that set won't know why are they using those Evs, what do they accomplish, and so on.

Alongside this sentiment, I am going to note that the use of 104 Speed EVs on Taunt Skarmory is Speed creep. Only 92 Speed EVs are required for outrunning RestTalk Gyarados, which is an important benchmark. The set should reflect this and have only 92 Speed EVs, with the rest invested in the defensive stat of choice.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

Done Setsuna. Bring on the GP check.

 

[Setsuna]

Alright, very good KnightoftheWind. However, I just revised the new AC paragraphs concerning the Evs, and I would like to underline a few things:

<p>When picking an EV spread for Skarmory, you should put as many EVs in Speed as you want, then you should max HP and put the rest in Defense. Speed is a key point for Skarmory, since it lets him use Roost to remove weaknesses and gain resistances before the opponent attacks. There are numerous Speed EVs to choose from. 16 EVs in Speed allows Skarmory to outspeed max Speed Adamant Rhyperior. 84 EVs in Speed outspeeds Jolly Rhyperior and min Speed base 80s. Finally, 92 EVs in Speed outspeeds min Speed Gyarados and Milotic. It's important not to put an excessive amount of EVs in Speed, otherwise Skarmory's defensive capabilities will be much weaker.</p>

We're talking here about a defensive set, so you don't really have to put so much emphasis on saying what the Speed Evs can do. Instead, what should be written is how by using an Impish nature in conjunction with the HP / Def Evs Skarmory is able to wall certain physical attacks and that way have an easier time setting up Spikes, using Roost, WW, etc. The Speed Evs can be mentioned as well of course, so feel free to do so as well.

<p>Most of the EV spreads you would use for the Physically Defensive spread can be used for this set as well, since they outpace users of Thunderbolt as well. For example, 16 Speed EVs also outspeeds slower variants of Magnezone.</p>

Here's a similar problem -- you're saying that Skarm's spreads are interchangeable, which is fine, though this particular set of Skarmory has the advantage to take on special attacks categorically better than the rest of its sets. For example, some things that you can mention: Rotom-A, even when using 252 SpA Evs (neutral nature, no LO) can't OHKO Skarm with T-bolt; Starmie, Magnezone, Shaymin, Suicune, are some Pokemon that experience some difficulties (note: not all of them obviously) when facing this specially-oriented Skarmory. Furthermore, it's worth mentioning in the analysis that when using Specially Defensive Skarmory, Spikes can be easily set up on in front of the likes of Vaporeon, non-LO Celebi, Shaymin and Roserade, to name a few.

Finally, the Taunt set suffers from the same problem that I've discussing in this post, although this one needs to make special reference of the Pokemon that Skarm can outspeed by using 92 Speed Evs. In AC, delete that mention of the 124 Evs, since it's speed creep, and instead say that this stat's values can be increased if one is aiming to outspeed some dedicated Pokemon such as Suicune.

Once these details are properly implemented in the OP, I'll tell the GP team to add this analysis to the queue ;)

 

[KnightoftheWind]

Thanks Setsuna, I've implemented the necessary changes. I have also put in a paragraph in Optional Changes regarding Speed. Hope that's ok with you :)

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Alright, I am GPing this and uploading it simultaneously after having discussed the state of the analysis with Setsuna.

GP'd and uploaded. I made a bunch of corrections here and there, but good job overall!