Sketchmons ORAS - Diggersby and Shell Smash Banned!

[sin(pi)]

Because

Regigigigigigigigas (Regigigas) @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Def / 28 SpD
Careful Nature
- Skill Swap
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
EVs started at 128 HP / 252 Atk, made it live Modest LO Keldeo's Secret Sword at bare minimum with as few EVs, put the rest into SpD and gave it a SpD positive nature

Wouldn't Return be better than ZHB?

252 Atk Regigigas Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 213-252 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO252 Atk Regigigas Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 224-264 (69.3 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ZHB isn't noticeably stronger, and Return is much better against neutral foes while retaining perfect coverage.

 

[G-Luke]

I unfortunately found out some sad stuff. Fake out and Espeed is incompatible on Lopunny, so no Fakespeed. Ttar can't run Pursuit and a sketch move, so that rapes a lot of sets. And mememto can't be run along with a sketch move on whimsi, so suicide lead Whimsicott is ded.

I crii

 

[TotalAsteroid]

I crii

Let your feelings out
Also, this may be impossible, but is it possible to adjust event moves, such as bundling sketch+wish on Chansey? If it's possible, great! Just do it with egg moves as well

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

The previous thread has a list of recommended moves. I should make one here to help newcomers. Tell me if I miss some moves. Note that this is list of recommended moves, meaning you can use moves outside of this list if they prove to be more useful than here.

List of Recommended moves:
1. High Powered Priority moves: Extremespeed, Sucker Punch, Water Shuriken

2. High powered physical moves: V-Create, Sacred Fire, Crabhammer, Precipice Blades, Earthquake, Close Combat, Head Smash, Diamond Storm, Dragon Ascent, Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, Shadow Force, Wood Hammer, Icicle Crash, Knock Off, Gunk Shot, Megahorn, Heavy Slam, Gyro Ball

3. High powered Special moves: Boomburst, Eruption, Blue Flare, Fusion Flare, Water Spout, Origin Pulse, Scald, Draco Meteor, Spacial Rend, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Seed Flare, Focus blast, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Doom Desire, Hurricane, Power Gem, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Night Daze, Shadow Ball, Judgment

4. Draining Moves: Oblivion Wing, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Draining Kiss, Leech Seed

5. Multi-hitting moves: Tail Slap, Gear Grind, Bullet Seed, Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Dual Chop, Icicle Spear, Beat Up

6. Low accuracy moves that might be useful with No Guard: Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Focus Blast, Hurricane, Blizzard

7. Set up moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Swords Dance, Shift Gear, Geomancy, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow, Cosmic Power, Cotton Guard, Coil

8. Recovery and Healing moves: Roost, Recover, Softboiled, Slack Off, Milk Drink, Moonlight, Synthesis, Morning sun, Heal Bell, Wish, Lunar Dance, Refresh

9. Status inducing moves: Spore, Dark Void, Nuzzle, Glare, Toxic, Will-o-wisp

10. Switching moves: Volt Switch, U-turn, Parting Shot, Baton Pass

11. Trapping moves: Infestation, Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Magma Storm

12. Hazards: Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spikes, Toxic Spikes

13. Protect variants: King's Shield, Spiky Shield

14. Phazing moves: Dragon Tail, Roar, Whirlwind, Circle Throw

15. Set up counters: Topsy Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog, Heart Swap

16. Others (they have their own uses): Perish Song, Taunt, Trick, Psycho Shift, Transform, Metal Burst, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, Endeavor, Fake Out, Rapid Spin, Pursuit, Electrify, Skill Swap, Defog, Tailwind, Explosion, Psych Up

This should cover all needed moves, from attacks and set up to gimmicks like Electrify and Beat Up. Note that I didn't list some moves because there are better versions of them (like Blue Flare and Fire Blast). I still list both moves if there are power vs accuracy comparison (like EQ and Precipice Blades).

Edit: Forgot Steam Eruption isn't released yet. Changed it to Origin Pulse and added Scald.

 

[dsm77773]

The previous thread has a list of recommended moves. I should make one here to help newcomers. Tell me if I miss some moves. Note that this is list of recommended moves, meaning you can use moves outside of this list if they proves to be more useful than here.

List of Recommended moves:
1. High Powered Priority moves: Extremespeed, Sucker Punch, Water Shuriken

2. High powered physical moves: V-Create, Sacred Fire, Precipice Blades, Earthquake, Close Combat, Head Smash, Diamond Storm, Dragon Ascent, Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, Shadow Force, Wood Hammer, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear

3. High powered Special moves: Boomburst, Eruption, Blue Flare, Fusion Flare, Inferno, Water Spout, Origin Pulse, Scald, Draco Meteor, Spacial Rend, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Seed Flare, Focus blast, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Doom Desire, Hurricane, Power Gem, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball

4. Draining Moves: Oblivion Wing, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Draining Kiss, Leech Seed

5. Set up moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Swords Dance, Shift Gear, Geomancy, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow, Cosmic Power, Cotton Guard, Coil

6. Recovery and Healing moves: Roost, Recover, Softboiled, Slack Off, Milk Drink, Moonlight,mSynthesis, Morning sun, Heal Bell, Wish, Healing Wish

7. Status inducing moves: Spore, Nuzzle, Toxic, Will-o-wisp

8. Switching moves: Volt Switch, U-turn, Parting Shot, Baton Pass

9. Trapping moves: Infestation, Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Magma Storm

10. Hazards: Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spikes, Toxic Spikes

11. Protect variants: King's Shield, Spiky Shield

12. Phazing moves: Dragon Tail, Roar, Whirlwind

13. Set up counters: Topsy Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog

14. Others (they have their own uses): Perish Song, Taunt, Knock Off, Trick, Psycho Shift, Transform, Metal Burst, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, Endeavor, Fake Out, Rapid Spin, Pursuit, Electrify, Skill Swap

This should cover all needed moves, from attacks and set up to gimmicks like Electrify and Beat Up. Note that I didn't list some moves because there are better versions of them (like Blue Flare and Fire Blast). I still list both move if there is power vs accuracy comparison (like EQ and Precipice Blades).

Edit: Forgot Steam Eruption isn't released yet. Changed it to Origin Pulse and added Scald.

Wow that's a good list!
Add Dark Void on point 7 (status moves). Niche over Spore in Grass-types and Safety Goggles.

 

[thesecondbest]

The previous thread has a list of recommended moves. I should make one here to help newcomers. Tell me if I miss some moves. Note that this is list of recommended moves, meaning you can use moves outside of this list if they proves to be more useful than here.

List of Recommended moves:
1. High Powered Priority moves: Extremespeed, Sucker Punch, Water Shuriken

2. High powered physical moves: V-Create, Sacred Fire, Precipice Blades, Earthquake, Close Combat, Head Smash, Diamond Storm, Dragon Ascent, Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, Shadow Force, Wood Hammer, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear

3. High powered Special moves: Boomburst, Eruption, Blue Flare, Fusion Flare, Inferno, Water Spout, Origin Pulse, Scald, Draco Meteor, Spacial Rend, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Seed Flare, Focus blast, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Doom Desire, Hurricane, Power Gem, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball

4. Draining Moves: Oblivion Wing, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Draining Kiss, Leech Seed

5. Set up moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Swords Dance, Shift Gear, Geomancy, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow, Cosmic Power, Cotton Guard, Coil

6. Recovery and Healing moves: Roost, Recover, Softboiled, Slack Off, Milk Drink, Moonlight,mSynthesis, Morning sun, Heal Bell, Wish, Healing Wish

7. Status inducing moves: Spore, Nuzzle, Toxic, Will-o-wisp

8. Switching moves: Volt Switch, U-turn, Parting Shot, Baton Pass

9. Trapping moves: Infestation, Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Magma Storm

10. Hazards: Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spikes, Toxic Spikes

11. Protect variants: King's Shield, Spiky Shield

12. Phazing moves: Dragon Tail, Roar, Whirlwind

13. Set up counters: Topsy Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog

14. Others (they have their own uses): Perish Song, Taunt, Knock Off, Trick, Psycho Shift, Transform, Metal Burst, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, Endeavor, Fake Out, Rapid Spin, Pursuit, Electrify, Skill Swap

This should cover all needed moves, from attacks and set up to gimmicks like Electrify and Beat Up. Note that I didn't list some moves because there are better versions of them (like Blue Flare and Fire Blast). I still list both move if there is power vs accuracy comparison (like EQ and Precipice Blades).

Edit: Forgot Steam Eruption isn't released yet. Changed it to Origin Pulse and added Scald.

Add judgement and night daze. Otherwise looks great.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Added Glare (might be more useful than Nuzzle for Prankster pokes), Dark Void, Judgment, Night Daze, Defog, Tailwind, Beat Up (forgot to add it earlier). Removed Inferno (low Accuracy, same goes for Dynamic Punch and Zap Cannon). Moved Knock Off to high powered Physical moves (well, it's 97.5 BP).

Maybe I should list Low Accuracy moves that benefits No Guard?

Edit: Added Gunk Shot, Megahorn, Heavy Slam, Gyro Ball and Heart Swap. Also added Multi-hitting moves (might be useful for Technician and Skill Link users). Also added Explosion. I didn't put it in High powered Physical moves because it's not for sweepers.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Added Glare (might be more useful than Nuzzle for Prankster pokes), Dark Void, Judgment, Night Daze, Defog, Tailwind, Beat Up (forgot to add it earlier). Removed Inferno (low Accuracy, same goes for Dynamic Punch and Zap Cannon). Moved Knock Off to high powered Physical moves (well, it's 97.5 BP).

Maybe I should list Low Accuracy moves that benefits No Guard?

Inferno and Zap Cannon WILL still see use on a Mega Pidgeot set. Zap Cannon for fast instant paralysis and Inferno spreads burns and is Super Effective against the Steel types that wall it.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Added Low Accuracy moves that might benefit No Guard, because I added Multi-hitting moves for Technician and Skill Link users. Also added Circle throw to Phazing moves, in case you need an untauntable Phazing move that isn't Dragon Tail.

 

[dsm77773]

Added Low Accuracy moves that might benefit No Guard, because I added Multi-hitting moves for Technician and Skill Link users. Also added Circle throw to Phazing moves, in case you need an untauntable Phazing move that isn't Dragon Tail.

Psych Up could be added on Set-up counters.

 

[Snaquaza]

Psych Up could be added on Set-up counters.

It shouldn't be added as under normal conditions (and all I can think of, unless you're using multiple Psych Up mons?) Heart Swap will always be better.

Anyway to add some bulk to this post, Belly Drum + ESpeed Snorlax looks really potent. Its kind of like Azumarill, but it has incredibly strong coverage, easy setup due to its bulk and good coverage. Although you have to watch out for Ghosts, Steels and Rocks anyway since they WILL outspeed you most of the time.

 

[Ghoul King]

The only Pokemon I'd see having any use for Psych Up as anti-setup are Unaware Pokemon who might want to be able to steal even bigger boosts from the target, if the target is stupid enough to stay in and setup yet further.

The main reasons Ghosts are an issue for Snorlax is because they're immune to Extreme Speed and can drop a Will O Wisp on it. If they're not running Will O Wisp, they're going to struggle to KO Snorlax if they're not, like, carrying Secret Sword, and it's got Crunch for murdering them. For Rock and Steel types it has Brick Break, Focus Punch, and Superpower for murdering them, and they don't necessarily have a good tool for taking it down, actually.

 

[dsm77773]

And what about Acid Spray?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

For Snorlax I'd honestly rather sketch a recovery move. Anything faster that resist/is immune to Extreme Speed would easily check it.

 

[sin(pi)]

Lucario @ Sitrus Berry (or whatever)
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Not sure if this has been posted, but it seems better than a Snorlax set - CC beats rocks and steels and crunch beats ghosts, giving you perfect coverage. Inner Focus blocks Fake Out (even though you resist normally, Pixilate/Aerilate is possible). EVs give you even HP for sitrus but they're probably not optimised.
It's a bit harder to set up thanks to Luke's frailty, but you have a good typing and can set up on choice locked mons or stuff like passive mons (though you have to be wary of status which will be more common)

edit also vote Sketchmons for OMotM September!

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Added Crabhammer to High Powered Physical moves (I forgot about it) and Psych Up to Others (I think it has other purpose than being a set up counter).

Fun sets that hasn't been mentioned here. Transforming is lame, this is better.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed nature
- Toxic
- Metal Burst
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell

With huge HP, you can basically deal huge damage to opponent, especially in this set up crazy meta. If you can't 1HKO this thing, get ready to be 1HKO'd back.

Also, why can't we use egg move + sketch move? It should be fixed I think.

 

[Reisuke]

Added Crabhammer to High Powered Physical moves (I forgot about it) and Psych Up to Others (I think it has other purpose than being a set up counter).

Fun sets that hasn't been mentioned here. Transforming is lame, this is better.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed nature
- Toxic
- Metal Burst
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell

With huge HP, you can basically deal huge damage to opponent, especially in this set up crazy meta. If you can't 1HKO this thing, get ready to be 1HKO'd back.

Also, why can't we use egg move + sketch move? It should be fixed I think.

EM/event move + sketch move is considered illegal due to the code having sketch implemented as an event move apparently

 

[dsm77773]

OMoTM September, let's go! :]]]]]

Last time I checked Sketchmons would be the new OMotM.
OMotM SEPTEMBER LET'S GO!!!

The previous thread has a list of recommended moves. I should make one here to help newcomers. Tell me if I miss some moves. Note that this is list of recommended moves, meaning you can use moves outside of this list if they prove to be more useful than here.

List of Recommended moves:
1. High Powered Priority moves: Extremespeed, Sucker Punch, Water Shuriken

2. High powered physical moves: V-Create, Sacred Fire, Crabhammer, Precipice Blades, Earthquake, Close Combat, Head Smash, Diamond Storm, Dragon Ascent, Bolt Strike, Fusion Bolt, Shadow Force, Wood Hammer, Icicle Crash, Knock Off, Gunk Shot, Megahorn, Heavy Slam, Gyro Ball

3. High powered Special moves: Boomburst, Eruption, Blue Flare, Fusion Flare, Water Spout, Origin Pulse, Scald, Draco Meteor, Spacial Rend, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Seed Flare, Focus blast, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Doom Desire, Hurricane, Power Gem, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Night Daze, Shadow Ball, Judgment

4. Draining Moves: Oblivion Wing, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Draining Kiss, Leech Seed

5. Multi-hitting moves: Tail Slap, Gear Grind, Bullet Seed, Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Dual Chop, Icicle Spear, Beat Up

6. Low accuracy moves that might be useful with No Guard: Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Focus Blast, Hurricane, Blizzard

7. Set up moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Swords Dance, Shift Gear, Geomancy, Quiver Dance, Tail Glow, Cosmic Power, Cotton Guard, Coil

8. Recovery and Healing moves: Roost, Recover, Softboiled, Slack Off, Milk Drink, Moonlight, Synthesis, Morning sun, Heal Bell, Wish, Healing Wish

9. Status inducing moves: Spore, Dark Void, Nuzzle, Glare, Toxic, Will-o-wisp

10. Switching moves: Volt Switch, U-turn, Parting Shot, Baton Pass

11. Trapping moves: Infestation, Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Magma Storm

12. Hazards: Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spikes, Toxic Spikes

13. Protect variants: King's Shield, Spiky Shield

14. Phazing moves: Dragon Tail, Roar, Whirlwind, Circle Throw

15. Set up counters: Topsy Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog, Heart Swap

16. Others (they have their own uses): Perish Song, Taunt, Trick, Psycho Shift, Transform, Metal Burst, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, Endeavor, Fake Out, Rapid Spin, Pursuit, Electrify, Skill Swap, Defog, Tailwind, Explosion, Psych Up

This should cover all needed moves, from attacks and set up to gimmicks like Electrify and Beat Up. Note that I didn't list some moves because there are better versions of them (like Blue Flare and Fire Blast). I still list both moves if there are power vs accuracy comparison (like EQ and Precipice Blades).

Edit: Forgot Steam Eruption isn't released yet. Changed it to Origin Pulse and added Scald.

aesf this should be added to the OP.

 

[Lcass4919]

Also, why can't we use egg move + sketch move? It should be fixed I think.

EM/event move + sketch move is considered illegal due to the code having sketch implemented as an event move apparently

its not a "coding restriction" or a "error" from what ive seen, its because due to sketch being a specific method to obtain, if sketchmons was implimented in the current gen, it wouldn't work, since sketch no longer works "once" and you can infinitely sketch stuff. gen 5 is the last gen that actually grants sketch once (aka, necturna) and thus, the meta is adapted like such. buuut thats thrown out the window when you realise gen 6 pokemon can gain sketch too, which is an impossibility, so id argue its a pretty strict rule. you should let pokemon use egg moves, because otherwise you cause a "rule paradox" where you are trying to follow the in game logic, but at the same time, your ignoring another flaw in doing such.

buuut thats just my opinion.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Can we discuss banning/nerfing -Ate and shellsmash/geomancy, I don't want this to become another metagame where those are the only thing people run and the metagame is centralised around them, please?

 

[Reisuke]

Can we discuss banning/nerfing -Ate and shellsmash/geomancy, I don't want this to become another metagame where those are the only thing people run and the metagame is centralised around them, please?

Nerfing -ates means this becomes a petmod (correct me if i'm wrong please).

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Nerfing -ates means this becomes a petmod (correct me if i'm wrong please).

I think he means like limiting things like teams of all -ates. So we don't have all -atespeed or -atebursts.

 

[Funbot28]

Nerfing -ates means this becomes a petmod (correct me if i'm wrong please).

I think he means to create a complex ban between having -ate ability with Geomancy/Shell Smash in the same set

Edit: Ninjad

 

[Reisuke]

I think he means to create a complex ban between having -ate ability with Geomancy/Shell Smash in the same set

Edit: Ninjad

Well banning both on the same mon doesn't seem like his idea to be honest. He seems to want -ates being restricted and same goes for certain setup moves. Although in my eyes that just screws up the fun of this meta.

 

[xJownage]

No. I'm not ready to talk about an -atespeed ban or a geo/smash ban. This would be a massive step in the wrong direction. Maybe it makes teambuilding harder, but it literally keeps the meta together. If teambuilding was just slap on cool things and see who wins, there would be no playstyles, no balance of power, and the metagame would be setup spam, either by old mons that already got it such as Azumarill and Thundurus, or by shift gear mons such as char-x and megagross.

-atespeed is very annoyingly powerful but it helps the meta not be...ridiculous. What is stopping my crobat strategy from 6-0ing teams? Spore, u-turn to SS charx (or SG if you want to go that route), win. Nothing stops anything if the meta is just whatever the fuck you want auto-wins if played well. This would be like having mega altaria in stabmons again; sweepers have no stops.

Mons like aggron, heatran, magnezone, etc. having reliable recovery make it not overly difficult to offset -atespeeders and SS while teambuilding. It may wildly restrict the meta, but that restriction is needed just like imposter in BH. This meta would be do whatever the flying fuck you want meta, but now it requires actual teambuilding skill and integrity to play and that's a good thing.

What I am willing to suspect is pinsir. The problem with it is its wide coverage, good speed, and its insane power, which is well above the other two. It's also the only -atespeeder to get swords dance, so it should definitely be something we keep an eye on. The other two -atespeeders are actually somewhat balanced, and very manageable, but pinsir is a bit difficult.

On another note, the egg move + Sketch was something whoever coded it just left in, and it never got fixed - it needs to before OMOTM starts.