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Sketchmons ORAS - Diggersby and Shell Smash Banned!
- Thread starter Chopin Alkaninoff
- Start date
Pokemon that would be better in their respective tiers, even if its not much, if they got these moves.
Not excatly meta defining innovation, put some things here make pokemon more viable, or makes a generally better replacement for a move.
Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Close Combat
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Belly Drum
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Roost
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot/Megahorn
- Protect
- Drill Run
Diggersby @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Medicham-Mega (M) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Wild Charge
- Sucker Punch
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Close Combat
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Belly Drum
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Roost
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot/Megahorn
- Protect
- Drill Run
Diggersby @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Medicham-Mega (M) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Wild Charge
- Sucker Punch
Not excatly meta defining innovation, put some things here make pokemon more viable, or makes a generally better replacement for a move.
I've faced regular Aerodactyl with Head Smash and it's a nightmare to switch into, due to its Speed and lack of recoil (Rock Head). It even 2HKOed my Skarmory.
Also I've been (ab)using King's Rock Cloyster, aesf if you want I'll provide some replays in which Cloyster warps the match-up as soon as I start playing on the ladder and not by challenge.
EDIT:
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- V-create
- Giga Drain / Glare
- Dragon Pulse
Meet Tank Serperior, Serperior's bread and butter Sketchmons set.
Also I've been (ab)using King's Rock Cloyster, aesf if you want I'll provide some replays in which Cloyster warps the match-up as soon as I start playing on the ladder and not by challenge.
EDIT:
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- V-create
- Giga Drain / Glare
- Dragon Pulse
Meet Tank Serperior, Serperior's bread and butter Sketchmons set.
Gothitelle: I would really like to see it banned. Something I ran into was someone running Gothitelle and Wobbuffet -if Gothitelle fails to get the double Protect and explodes, Wobuffet switches in and there you go, whatever was trapped is still dead. It's absurd.
Mega Pinsir:I have no particular opinion on the topic. I started running Mega Aggron to deal with Mega Altaria, and have entirely incidentally hard-walled it in the process.
New opinion: holy shit ban it.
Mega Pinsir:
New opinion: holy shit ban it.
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I could use FakeSpeed Mega-Lopunny just fine.
sin(pi)
lucky n bad
yeah can we ban one of goth/perish song/stag this is ridiculous
I haven't had trouble with M-Pinsir yet but my team has a soft counter and a check, plus my own Pinsir, and I haven't lost a game to a team which didn't have a Pinsir check.
Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon/Hidden Power [Ice]
-Blue Flare
-Volt Switch
This is the best check/soft counter for M-Pinsir I've found, which also clears Steels for your own Pinsir thanks to Magnet Pull + Blue Flare. It takes about 30% from a +2 Espeed (I calc'd and I think there was a 0.2% chance to 3HKO or something), and outspeeds and KOs with Thunderbolt unless they're invested in HP (in which case it will do min 90%). Thunderbolt is required to guarantee the OHKO on Mega Pinsir, Blue Flare hits Steels which means it's relevant against teams without a Pinsir, Flash Cannon is secondary STAB and Volt Switch is to pivot. You can slash HP Ice with Flash Cannon if you want, to hit stuff like Chomp/Lando (lando has been really common so far in my experience).
I'm tempted to make a team with Goth/Wobb/Mag
edit: Trick Room looks like it might be pretty cool, with Diamond Storm Rampardos, Crawdaunt, Hoopa, Boomburst Sylveon, Conk, etc. Shame there's no Smooth Rock equivalent :(
I haven't had trouble with M-Pinsir yet but my team has a soft counter and a check, plus my own Pinsir, and I haven't lost a game to a team which didn't have a Pinsir check.
Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon/Hidden Power [Ice]
-Blue Flare
-Volt Switch
This is the best check/soft counter for M-Pinsir I've found, which also clears Steels for your own Pinsir thanks to Magnet Pull + Blue Flare. It takes about 30% from a +2 Espeed (I calc'd and I think there was a 0.2% chance to 3HKO or something), and outspeeds and KOs with Thunderbolt unless they're invested in HP (in which case it will do min 90%). Thunderbolt is required to guarantee the OHKO on Mega Pinsir, Blue Flare hits Steels which means it's relevant against teams without a Pinsir, Flash Cannon is secondary STAB and Volt Switch is to pivot. You can slash HP Ice with Flash Cannon if you want, to hit stuff like Chomp/Lando (lando has been really common so far in my experience).
edit: Trick Room looks like it might be pretty cool, with Diamond Storm Rampardos, Crawdaunt, Hoopa, Boomburst Sylveon, Conk, etc. Shame there's no Smooth Rock equivalent :(
Magneton? Surely you mean Magnezone. Or at least Evolite over Choice Scarf.
Eviolite is barely viable. Magneton is used for its speed tier, such as Scarf Magneton outspeeds Talonflame while Scarf Magnezone does not.
I also have no troubles against mega Pinsir. It's just looks good on paper but in practice... it's easily revengable. I could argue that Life Orb Diggersby (which I've been using to top the ladders) performs better than it. It's also doesn't have any counters, doesn't take a mega slot, and is not weak to Stealth Rock. It's Extremespeed hits HARDER than Mega Pinsir's and it can destroy stall better with STAB Earthquakes, the power that Mega Pinsir doesn't have. I don't see Mega Pinsir as broken in practice so far.
The set that I've been using to check Mega Pinsir is Scarf Sacred Fire Jirachi, which makes it guaranteed 100% burn everytime it hits. It works great I think.
As for Goth, ban pls. It's ridiculous, how it perish trap you or Trick a Scarf, then Quiver Dance to+6 to sweep.
The set that I've been using to check Mega Pinsir is Scarf Sacred Fire Jirachi, which makes it guaranteed 100% burn everytime it hits. It works great I think.
As for Goth, ban pls. It's ridiculous, how it perish trap you or Trick a Scarf, then Quiver Dance to+6 to sweep.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Goth has been underwhelming for me because it can't set up in the face of the gods legal in the tier. I've resorted to M-Aggron as a counter to Espeed Spam, Sap Sipper Azu for Serperior, and Jirachi to beat Pixi Burst from Gardevoir (although it can't take two so I have to resort to a scarf set). the meta is way too powerful for Gothitelle to do anything, but after Gardevoir, Pinsir, and Serperior (Maybe other stuff too, shedinja is insane tbh) are banned and stall becomes remotely usable, then a goth suspect will be warranted.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
goth is supposed to be the "ez remove" for the opponents glue. think about it like this: your opponent runs mega aggron for pinsir, heatran for serp and garde, goth can EASILY dispatch these things, and thus, pave way for your pinsir+serp to sweep. its not supposed to be facing the powerthreats, its supposed to be SUPPORTING them, which imo, is way too good at its job. especially since its forced against their will.
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Lcass worded it perfectly, Gothielle doesn't sweep, it doesn't wallbreak, it doesn't stallbreak. It gives unrivaled support to a pokemon of your choice. Stealth rock chips 6-50% of your opponents healthy reliably. Sticky web provides semi-reliable speed control. The difference is that the support is in the form of the outcome becoming 6v5 or 6v4.
Try making a stallteam, and you're not allowed to check Pinsir with Skarmory, rotom, hippo. It doesn't work without them, and of course there are situational counters that rely on volt switch like Magneton, but you can't switch them in. Next person who says "it's easily overpowered" is getting stabbed. Sp.def Goth takes 30-20% from most stall attacks, and they have to 2HKO minimum to kill Goth.
And Mega Pinsir is stupid. I'm runng Sub SD scizor with CC abd Espeed and it absolutely shreds teams apart. It's extremely difficult to revenge kill, and if it gets a sub up you don't need to predict and you escape intimidate. Never mind the fact that +2 Espeed does so god damn much dmg, OHKOing Thundurus on a roll I think. It centralises the metagame around it, especially pairing it with Gothitelle.
Try making a stallteam, and you're not allowed to check Pinsir with Skarmory, rotom, hippo. It doesn't work without them, and of course there are situational counters that rely on volt switch like Magneton, but you can't switch them in. Next person who says "it's easily overpowered" is getting stabbed. Sp.def Goth takes 30-20% from most stall attacks, and they have to 2HKO minimum to kill Goth.
And Mega Pinsir is stupid. I'm runng Sub SD scizor with CC abd Espeed and it absolutely shreds teams apart. It's extremely difficult to revenge kill, and if it gets a sub up you don't need to predict and you escape intimidate. Never mind the fact that +2 Espeed does so god damn much dmg, OHKOing Thundurus on a roll I think. It centralises the metagame around it, especially pairing it with Gothitelle.
Goth is outright ridiculous. The Perish Trap set, aided with a Focus Sash, has a 33% chance to remove LITERALLY anything. Consider that anything that can't 2HKO is removed too. The TrickScarf set is more uncommon and not that overpowered, but hell, it finds setting Quiver Dances way too easy due to Trick. Ban it.
On Pinsir I'm not that sure. It is suspect worthy, but I'm not sure if it's banworthy. It hits like a truck but has one of the worst defensive typings ever, it is too weak to Stealth Rock too. Sure, it has a strong priority but I found anything that resists it to fend it off. Still I need more testing with it to decide on ban or not ban.
On Pinsir I'm not that sure. It is suspect worthy, but I'm not sure if it's banworthy. It hits like a truck but has one of the worst defensive typings ever, it is too weak to Stealth Rock too. Sure, it has a strong priority but I found anything that resists it to fend it off. Still I need more testing with it to decide on ban or not ban.
Struggling with Pinsir? Here's what im using (and it works or at least gets damage off so it can be revenge killed)
Cofagrigus @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic Spikes
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 214-253 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
then thanks to mummy, no more damage from Pinsir unless its carrying EQ which i havent seen any yet fortunately
Struggling with setup physical sweepers in general?
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heart Swap
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
Not only do you have unaware but you now have all their lovely boosts too for the turnaround sweep.
But Goth should be banned for sure
Cofagrigus @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic Spikes
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 214-253 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
then thanks to mummy, no more damage from Pinsir unless its carrying EQ which i havent seen any yet fortunately
Struggling with setup physical sweepers in general?
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heart Swap
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
Not only do you have unaware but you now have all their lovely boosts too for the turnaround sweep.
But Goth should be banned for sure
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Yeah that's what I'm saying, it's good vs stall so it should be banned but right this second it isnt broken because stall is unviable with the mons we all mentioned.
Wait huh? Gothitelle beats anything that can't 2HKO it, Mega Lopunny for example, I rdckon it couldn't 2HKO it. Thundurus, Lopunny, Breloom, Mega Slowbro. It's a huge list
For any of you that struggle to fit bulky steels (or whatever relevant) onto your team to check the plethora of powerful attackers - especially Mega Pinsir - there's no need to worry! A powerful anti-meta threat has been hiding underneath our noses the whole time; Ditto!
No need to pack unawares and -ates to check setup-sweepers, if a good player sees you have a Ditto they won't set up in the first place, and if they do, lol have fun obliterating the opponent's team. Seriously Ditto is a very fun and effective Pokemon in this meta so i recommend it :)
Here's the set, not that it matters but i guess it would be easier to copy this into teambuilder.
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Skill Swap
Since Ditto can get another move, it technically doesn't need to run transform, so i opted not to use since transform is actually a slight hindrance to Ditto. For example if I use skill swap on a Pokemon behind a sub they transform into Ditto, but they can use transform and skill swap whereas i can only use skill swap so if i switch out they can use transform on some other poke. By not running transform they are forced to use skill swap and thus lose pp faster. But hey that's just in very rare scenarios so feel free to run transform if you want.
Also on the subject of suspects, I vote BAN Gothitelle and NO BAN Mega Pinsir. Mpinsir can be handled with correct teambuilding. Gothitelle on the other hand is just completely uncompetitive, it 6-0's stall teams and maybe balance teams as well, along with crippling any team that's not full offense or HO.
EDIT: I also think Mpinsir's extreme power is achieved when carried alongside Gothitelle which can eliminate Pinsir's checks. If Gothitelle is banned then Pinsir will subsequently fall in effectiveness.
No need to pack unawares and -ates to check setup-sweepers, if a good player sees you have a Ditto they won't set up in the first place, and if they do, lol have fun obliterating the opponent's team. Seriously Ditto is a very fun and effective Pokemon in this meta so i recommend it :)
Here's the set, not that it matters but i guess it would be easier to copy this into teambuilder.
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Skill Swap
Since Ditto can get another move, it technically doesn't need to run transform, so i opted not to use since transform is actually a slight hindrance to Ditto. For example if I use skill swap on a Pokemon behind a sub they transform into Ditto, but they can use transform and skill swap whereas i can only use skill swap so if i switch out they can use transform on some other poke. By not running transform they are forced to use skill swap and thus lose pp faster. But hey that's just in very rare scenarios so feel free to run transform if you want.
Also on the subject of suspects, I vote BAN Gothitelle and NO BAN Mega Pinsir. Mpinsir can be handled with correct teambuilding. Gothitelle on the other hand is just completely uncompetitive, it 6-0's stall teams and maybe balance teams as well, along with crippling any team that's not full offense or HO.
EDIT: I also think Mpinsir's extreme power is achieved when carried alongside Gothitelle which can eliminate Pinsir's checks. If Gothitelle is banned then Pinsir will subsequently fall in effectiveness.
I talked to aesf last night, we'll do vr tonight.
Going to edit this post to address mpinsir
I shall assist in the Viability Rankings mayt
WoW Skarm is doing good 4 me.
Sadly I can't provide replays do to the DDoS attack but BAN KING'S ROCK PLEASE.
On Goth (ban this thing too please), I've been running a set that it's a bit different:
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Psychic
- Reflect
It's working well, Reflect protects you from physical attacks while the spread allows you to sponge special ones. Psychic is a filler, Protect + Perish Song + Shadow Tag is obvious.
Sadly I can't provide replays do to the DDoS attack but BAN KING'S ROCK PLEASE.
On Goth (ban this thing too please), I've been running a set that it's a bit different:
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Psychic
- Reflect
It's working well, Reflect protects you from physical attacks while the spread allows you to sponge special ones. Psychic is a filler, Protect + Perish Song + Shadow Tag is obvious.
DoW
formally Death on Wings
Recently I've been using Rhyperior to counter M-Pinsir. With Solid Rock it doesn't take much investment to avoid a 2HKO from M-Pinsir's Close Combat, and both Assault Vest and Milk Drink sets put in work. My preferred set is this:
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Milk Drink
- Stealth Rock / Dragon Tail
252+ Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Earthquake packs a punch against Gothitelle and catches the 2HKO against any set afaik, while Dragon Tail can also be used to outright stop perish trapping. It works extremely well on bulky offense teams though a more defensive set might suit stall well.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Milk Drink
- Stealth Rock / Dragon Tail
252+ Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Earthquake packs a punch against Gothitelle and catches the 2HKO against any set afaik, while Dragon Tail can also be used to outright stop perish trapping. It works extremely well on bulky offense teams though a more defensive set might suit stall well.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
FTR I plan on doing viability rankings with a group either this weekend or slightly later (although it will be a big challenge and a group effort in this meta). I will try to post ahead of time when it will happen.
As for right now, this is just think of random cool ideas and spam them. Ditto is a godsend for offense allowing it to check a myriad of threats it would have a very hard time countering if it had to do so using checks to said threats. This meta will cool down, although a pinsir ban and a move clause are both needed.
As for right now, this is just think of random cool ideas and spam them. Ditto is a godsend for offense allowing it to check a myriad of threats it would have a very hard time countering if it had to do so using checks to said threats. This meta will cool down, although a pinsir ban and a move clause are both needed.