Sketchmons ORAS - Diggersby and Shell Smash Banned!

I just added things, barely moved anything. Here's what we'll do, lets post a slate of nominations and then in 3-4 days we'll decide on it, so try to keep the discussion around the slate

Talonflame A- to A
Alakazam A to A+
Serperior A- to A
Aurorus B- to C-
Hydreigon B to B-
Chansey B to A
Cloyster A to B

Feel free to add anything to the discussion, but atleast discuss one pokemon in the slate, if you nom something that should move up or down we'll add it to the next slate ect.
I have a lot of opinions on this list, like many others. While I feel some mons are overrated, and others are criminally underrated, I agree with a very large chunk of this list. I appreciate the effort put into this, good work AJA. Narrowing my suggestions down was hard, but here are the most notable movements I personally feel we should consider.
With all due respect, I have not seen a single player utilize MegaZam to any sort of potential. It has even worse opportunity cost than MegaPidge, who can at least burn Pokemon to support the team. MegaZam is deathly afraid of priority, and Trace does not do much to stop that. MegaZam cannot find the opportunities to set up, and struggles to outperform other Special wallbreakers like Porygon-Z and Serperior vying for its job (and not using a Mega slot in the process). Trace may be decent for a few matchups (Intimidating physical attackers, and walling 95% of Heatran sets), but they are matchups that MegaZam likely isn't wanting to be part of in the first place. Calm Mind does nothing to patch up MegaZam's ghastly defense and HP, and running a better setup move deprives him of needed coverage. Mega Alakazam is not a bad Pokemon, or even a bad Mega Pokemon, but it has awful opportunity cost, and loses to too many common Pokemon to be considered anywhere close to viable. AllJokesAside, I don't understand why you think dropping something that far means one shouldn't be taken seriously. Mega Alakazam should have never been above B, let alone A.

Regular Alakazam, however? That is a different story. It still struggles with priority, but the ability to run a Focus Sash or Life Orb in conjunction with Magic Guard gives it much more utility. Sash Heart Swap can stop almost any non-Curse setup sweeper whose name isn't Cloyster, and an LO set does damage comparable to MegaZam, with a usually-better ability. MegaZam only really outclasses it in Speed, which is somewhat irrelevant in a tier full of setup mons and priority. Regular Alakazam faces a lot of competition for its spot on a team, but it can justify this spot with Magic Guard, which can guarantee it to take a hit with Sash, or switch in and out of hazards freely.
Serperior may have its checks, but that means nothing when it can 6-0 even prepared teams. You don't know what Serp will be using to set up until its staring you in the face, with multiple boosted stats. V-Create, Overheat, even Psycho Boost have their niches, and Serp can break all of them. Outside of Unaware mons, pink blobs, and specially-defensive Heatran, almost nothing can switch into a Leaf Storm/Overheat, then take an appropriate +2 hit to the face. Mega Pinsir being banned was the best thing possible for Serp's useage as well. Thundurus has risen to the top of Sketchmons, and Serp utilizes its secondary role as a Spore-absorbing pivot even better now. Between its ability to sweep many teams, as well as spreading paralysis to ground-types, and absorbing Spores, Serperior is a premier mon in Sketchmons, and its rank should reflect that.
I initially wanted to place Cloyster much lower (like C+ lol), but testing it out, I've found that this oyster can actually pull its weight. Sash Shell Smash is something that not many teams can stop without sacking off multiple priority users, or using multi-hit moves of their own. A +2 Water Shuriken hits surprisingly hard, and all of its commonly-used Skill Link moves avoid contact, making Ferrothorn a check rather than a counter. With correct prediction, you can OHKO most Ferrothorns with ~10% prior damage, something not many physical sweepers can claim. It doesn't fear priority, due to having strong priority of its own, but it has trouble getting in. You either have to sack off a mon, which is almost always suboptimal, or pair Cloyster with a slow U-Turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot. Cloyster also does NOT appreciate bulky Water or Steel types, and will need them removed or heavily weakened before attempting to clean. It requires a good bit of support to be utilized to its full potential, which is why I feel the rankings overrate it, but that potential is very high.

EDIT: Cloyster's natural bulk allows it to always take a Fake Out and an Espeed from a Jolly Mega-Lopunny, even when -1 from Shell Smash.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/sketchmons-269387023
Porygon-Z is a fearsome mon, and needs to be remembered when teambuilding any serious team. However, it relies on its item to be useful, and does not appreciate Knock Off. When it runs Scarf, Adapt-Boomburst misses out on some important kills, even when Modest. When Specs or LO, it gets outsped by much of the tier, and many popular Choice Scarf users. Any boosting set faces the same problem, and Tail Glow/Quiver Dance/Shell Smash sets all lose their nuking option, which is the main reason to even use PZ in the first place. All this is not a death wish for P-Z, however. It may have a single role, but it does that role admirably. Not much wants to switch in on a Adapt-boosted Boomburst, and strategic use of Trick can utterly cripple annoying mons like Thundurus, Clefable, and Chansey. It severely dents many mons, and can cripple one mon that it cannot. I wouldn't drop him below A, but PZ is a step behind the other deserving A+ mons imo.
The issue with running MegaPidge isn't even a MegaPidge problem. Getting a 100% burn or paralysis move that can also dent checks is a godsend, and Hurricane's 30% confusion rate is a bigger deal than some would expect. It sits at a good speed tier, outpacing most of the unboosted metagame. It can live surprisingly long with Defog and Roost, and STAB moves from it, even when Timid, will hurt. The only real problem with MegaPidge is the opportunity cost. If it were its own mon, it'd be A+, no question, but using it takes up a coveted Mega slot. Altaria, Metagross, and both Zards, among others, can fill more niches and make better use of that slot, and that opportunity cost is enough to keep it out of A, for now. But even considering that, what MegaPidge does cannot be underestimated, and getting a quick burn on multiple opponent mons is worthy of B+ in itself. Hurricane is just gravy.
One of the best tanks in the entire meta. Spiky Shield, Spore, and recovery move sets all have their own unique niches, adding on to its old one of spreading entry hazards and Leech Seeds. Rocky Helmet sets mean that anything has to think twice about throwing out non-Fire contact moves, lest they lose ~30% off a single attack. If you're using multi-hit moves, you're likely going to lose the mon. It can utilize a surprisingly large number of possible sets, for such a defensive pokemon, making accounting for all of it's possibilities a hassle during teambuilding. Gyro Balls can hit a lot of Pokemon harder than you would think, since almost every offensive mon will be running 252 Speed, and likely +Speed as well. It can heal, stall, phaze, and set up hazards better than many other Pokemon in the tier who can only accomplish one of these roles. Fire coverage on many Pokemon, as well as Magnezone becoming more and more popular, may keep it out of A+, but Ferrothorn is a top-3 Grass-type in the tier, and does not lose many 1v1 matchups.
My thoughts on Megachomp are summed up (if you can call it that) already in this post.

Short version is basically "Megachomp requires a team built with it in mind to succeed, but in these sorts of teams, it can 6-0 a majority of teams." It was already B-, but Mega Pinsir being banned made it even better. A great sweeper under sand, whose surprise factor and nuke of an Earthquake can tear holes in an opposing squad. B at the lowest, has potential to rise even farther.
 
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I'm not really sure why clef is so high? If anything it seems very mediocre to me in this meta, the higher raw power of offensive mons means that a lot of things don't even need set up to get past its good-not-great bulk, making unaware less useful than it could be. With this I'm not even sure what it tends to sketch? I can't see anything being a huge benefit to it.

I also think Sheddy should be higher, because the amount of ridiculously powerful attackers it just straight up cockblocks is incredibly useful, and hazard removal here is easy to provide. It's an easy B rank at least imo.
 
I'm completely fine with placing MegaSaur in either A- too A. It gains reliable recovery, which is huge. It's A in OU and it doesn't lose anything, nor is the metagame harsh to it, the loss of flying spam in Mega Pinsir is great for it. If you're looking for a set just go 252/252 Modest with Giga drain, recovery, Sludge Bomb and HP fire. It's ability to blanket check a HUGGGEEEE amount of pokemon is great! You're all underselling it a fuck-ton

I like donkeys what is it with you that's nominating things to drop a massive amount? Mega Alakazam loses nothing and yes, it might be susceptible for a drop to A- this being a highly offensive metagame is great for it. If you're going to nominate something to drop from A to C nobody is going to take you seriously...

To add onto that, if something doesn't lose something massive like Kings rock, it's not going to drop more than one rank, so chill.
A Pokemon's rank in OMs isn't dependent on what they 'gain' and what they 'lose', but by how well they perform in battle and how well they compare to other Pokemon in that rank. Sure Mega Alakazam didn't technically "lose" anything, but you can't seriously believe it performs just as well and is just as splashable as, say, Azumarill or Klefki in their roles.

Anyway continuing on from what i was doing earlier...

Hydreigon:
Like some other mons, I'm not sure what it does and it doesn't seem all that useful on paper, the rank you proposed is fine by me.

Chansey:
Chansey is a formidable defensive threat and can turn the tides against your foe with transform. A rank looks good.

Cloyster:
Despite losing kings rock, it's still a great shell-smasher that can tank physical attacks due it it's 180 def. B or B+ seems fit.
I'm not really sure why clef is so high? If anything it seems very mediocre to me in this meta, the higher raw power of offensive mons means that a lot of things don't even need set up to get past its good-not-great bulk, making unaware less useful than it could be. With this I'm not even sure what it tends to sketch? I can't see anything being a huge benefit to it.

I also think Sheddy should be higher, because the amount of ridiculously powerful attackers it just straight up cockblocks is incredibly useful, and hazard removal here is easy to provide. It's an easy B rank at least imo.
I agree with the Sheddy raise, it's camouflage/conversion set is just ridiculous.
 
Alakazam:
tbh i don't know why it was up in A in the first place, let alone A+, what makes it so good in first place? I haven't seen it in battle so i don't know for sure how effective it is but it appears to be lame. What does mega alakazam have over other special attackers (other than trace)? It can't hold items, weak to priority, no sash, meh typing, uses precious mega stone, it appears pretty lame actually. At least regular alakazam can live a hit with focus sash. Unless someone has quality replays that prove otherwise, i would even suggest moving mega alakazam down to B or even C rank.
Speed tier. If you don't have priority, Mega Alakazam can get a Tail Glow off and then sweep the entire team. With Mega Pinsir gone, it's even better than ever, too. Sucker Punch is uncommon, probably in part because Extreme Speed not only outperforms it but also counters it.

This is a little sad but I kind of agree. Band Espeed and Specs Boomburst are it's two best sets and it struggles *hard* with the existence of Heatran in the meta plus move clase/there being faster, more reliable Boombursters/Ice-type Espeed being a very specific niche. It can make life hard for Thundy/teams who don't have any ice checks for whatever reason but that's really it. Surprisingly common but I don't think that makes it more viable. When your physical set is running Earth Power and Freeze Dry for coverage you know something went wrong.
... Earth Power and Earthquake?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 372-440 (96.3 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Aurorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 352-416 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Heatran is not a safe switch on Aurorus by any stretch of the imagination.

Serperior may have its checks, but that means nothing when it can 6-0 even prepared teams. You don't know what Serp will be using to set up until its staring you in the face, with multiple boosted stats. V-Create, Overheat, even Psycho Boost have their niches, and Serp can break all of them. Outside of Unaware mons, pink blobs, and specially-defensive Heatran, almost nothing can switch into a Leaf Storm/Overheat, then take an appropriate +2 hit to the face. Mega Pinsir being banned was the best thing possible for Serp's useage as well. Thundurus has risen to the top of Sketchmons, and Serp utilizes its secondary role as a Spore-absorbing pivot even better now. Between its ability to sweep many teams, as well as spreading paralysis to ground-types, and absorbing Spores, Serperior is a premier mon in Sketchmons, and its rank should reflect that.
Specially Defensive Goodra can tank most of the things it can do, and with Sap Sipper can literally eat a Leaf Storm (Or a Spore!), fouling up Serperior's sweep. If it's running Psycho Boost and Dragon Pulse, it can potentially hit Goodra with Psycho Boost on the way in and then finish it with Dragon Pulse, but if it's doing that it's damaging its ability to push past a lot of other checks or counters, which is probably not worth the cost.

I'm not really sure why clef is so high? If anything it seems very mediocre to me in this meta, the higher raw power of offensive mons means that a lot of things don't even need set up to get past its good-not-great bulk, making unaware less useful than it could be. With this I'm not even sure what it tends to sketch? I can't see anything being a huge benefit to it.
Clefable's still a hard stop to a lot of obnoxious setup sweepers, including some truly ridiculous, newly existent ones, most notably hindering the viability of a lot of Geomancy builds. It's still your go-to Special Unaware wall if you want one, and it can, among other things, Sketch a recovery move to have good recovery with Unaware instead of just Moonlight.

I also think Sheddy should be higher, because the amount of ridiculously powerful attackers it just straight up cockblocks is incredibly useful, and hazard removal here is easy to provide. It's an easy B rank at least imo.
I don't really agree. It has to fear out-of-nowhere Will O Wisp, surprise coverage moves (eg Oblivion Wing Keldeo, when in Standard Keldeo has to lean on Hidden Power to touch Shedinja), being able to clear hazards doesn't help if you get Whirlwinded into hazards before they get cleared, and most of the most popular attackers are incidentally running relevant coverage for their own reasons -Serperior often carries Overheat or V-Create for instance.

Shedinja itself mostly gets... Endeavor? Which is mean in conjunction with Shadow Sneak, but then a Ghost switches in and Shedinja is basically neutered. Gimmicks like Camouflage don't protect it from hazards, weather, Will O Wisp, etc. I won't deny Shedinja is useful, but it's one of the most sensitive Pokemon to surprises, and even perfect play can result in it being randomly shoved in on hazards/Sandstorm before you're ready to bring it in.
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
... Earth Power and Earthquake?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 372-440 (96.3 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Aurorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 352-416 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Didn't realize it had Earthquake, my bad. Probably should be higher than C- then.

Also I think that Shedinja requires more support than it's worth - the increase in hazard removal doesn't mean much when a lot of teams have a rough skin + rocky helmet mon or a defog absorber, hazards are easier than ever to lay down randomly, pretty much anything can randomly run Sacred Fire (among other weird coverage moves, random Sacred Fires are just a stand out), Tyranitar is even better than normal, and so on. It walls some seriously threatening things but only because they aren't prepared for it to to Camouflage, but several threats can handle it anyway. I think it's good in C+ - it needs a lot of support even if it is good.
 
After a little while searching, I finally managed to find something capable of learning the combination of Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, and Spore
Linoone @ Leftovers
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Belly Drum
- Spore
- Shadow Claw/Some other coverage move

Spore to put something to sleep so you can set up, Belly Drum while the opponent is asleep/switching. Spam Extreme Speed. You can use Shadow Claw on the things that resist Normal. AFAIK, Normal/Ghost provides perfect neutral coverage.
 
After a little while searching, I finally managed to find something capable of learning the combination of Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, and Spore
Linoone @ Leftovers
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Belly Drum
- Spore
- Shadow Claw/Some other coverage move

Spore to put something to sleep so you can set up, Belly Drum while the opponent is asleep/switching. Spam Extreme Speed. You can use Shadow Claw on the things that resist Normal. AFAIK, Normal/Ghost provides perfect neutral coverage.
Eh, Spore + Drum looks cool in theory but Linoone has very disappointing damage output. Neutral coverage doesn't really matter when you can barely 2HKO bulky resists:

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-150 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 167-197 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 137-162 (45 - 53.2%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 212-250 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and so on. I'd rather use Diggersby, who actually hits harder after a SD and can actually break through normal resists with EQ/Knock Off/elemental punches.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 441-519 (109.1 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 382-450 (94.5 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
 
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Can Belly Drum Hawlucha be a thing?

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 567-667 (166.2 - 195.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 500-590 (146.6 - 173%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 559-659 (163.9 - 193.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 546-644 (160.1 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 465-547 (136.3 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 335-395 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
Obviously Hawlucha deals the most damage because of Belly Drum, but still.

0- Atk Serperior V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-137 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 107-126 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +4 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 396-468 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 296-350 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Able to check Timid Serperior and set-up to OHKO it. Use a slow U-Turn/Volt Switch or just bring it in after your Pokemon dies, take a V-Create or a Leaf Storm and set up Belly Drum. Granted, he can't belly drum after taking a +2 Leaf Storm.

Downsides: OHKO'd by E-Speed Diggersby, lacks priority, needs to set-up, loses to priority.
Upsides: Has Drain Punch for healing or HJK for flat-out damage, Acrobatics for 110 base STAB, plus a coverage move of your choice. Possible late game sweeper with less defense but more immediate offense than Serperior.

He's probably not good enough compared to E-Speed Diggersby or V-Create Leaf Storm Serperior, but he has his niches, and can also kill Ferrothorn.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (4 HP to have an even health for belly drum sitrus)
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/U-Turn/Baton Pass (Baton Pass actually sounds interesting, but I recommend the coverage of Thunder Punch or Fire Punch. U-Turn helps when your opponent tries to predict the Belly Drum, otherwise post-Belly Drum it's gonna be more detrimental than it is helpful.)
- High Jump Kick/Drain Punch (Offense vs Defense)
- Acrobatics (Great STAB, easily kills Serperior)
 
Can Belly Drum Hawlucha be a thing?

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 567-667 (166.2 - 195.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 500-590 (146.6 - 173%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 559-659 (163.9 - 193.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 546-644 (160.1 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 465-547 (136.3 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 335-395 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
Obviously Hawlucha deals the most damage because of Belly Drum, but still.

0- Atk Serperior V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-137 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 107-126 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +4 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 396-468 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 296-350 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Able to check Timid Serperior and set-up to OHKO it. Use a slow U-Turn/Volt Switch or just bring it in after your Pokemon dies, take a V-Create or a Leaf Storm and set up Belly Drum. Granted, he can't belly drum after taking a +2 Leaf Storm.

Downsides: OHKO'd by E-Speed Diggersby, lacks priority, needs to set-up, loses to priority.
Upsides: Has Drain Punch for healing or HJK for flat-out damage, Acrobatics for 110 base STAB, plus a coverage move of your choice. Possible late game sweeper with less defense but more immediate offense than Serperior.

He's probably not good enough compared to E-Speed Diggersby or V-Create Leaf Storm Serperior, but he has his niches, and can also kill Ferrothorn.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (4 HP to have an even health for belly drum sitrus)
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/U-Turn/Baton Pass (Baton Pass actually sounds interesting, but I recommend the coverage of Thunder Punch or Fire Punch. U-Turn helps when your opponent tries to predict the Belly Drum, otherwise post-Belly Drum it's gonna be more detrimental than it is helpful.)
- High Jump Kick/Drain Punch (Offense vs Defense)
- Acrobatics (Great STAB, easily kills Serperior)
I think something useful, but weird and possibly stupid to put in that second slot would be Quick Attack. Doesn't really OHKO anything, but it has the potential to pick of priority users like Talonflame and Thundurus when they try to revenge kill. Extremespeed is still an issue, of course. Figured it would be useful since HJK + Acro already has such good coverage.

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 182-215 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 194-229 (69 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stone Edge/Rock Slide > Thunder Punch. Acrobatics is stronger on anything you'd want to use it on except for Gyarados and other Water/Flying mons who get OHKOd by +6 Acrobatics anyway.
 
Speaking of Baton Pass, I was thinking how neat would it be to actual have some new Baton Passers in this Metagame. Looking at some of the best moves to pass, I came under the impression of actually considering Manaphy/Mew/Celebi baton Passing Tail Glows. Manaphy naturally learns Tail Glow and Mew and Celebi naturally learn Baton Pass. All three can benefit in the wallbreaking power of +3 Special Attack too. They are significantly bulky enough. I like Manaphy because it has less common weaknesses (It mainly has to watch out for Serperiors). The only problem I see is that sketching those moves leaves it pretty lackluster in comparison to some of the other shiny new toys that some Pokemon get.

Actually even doing things like standard Contrary Serperior with Baton Pass might be neat to surprise the foes who switch in expecting Fire and Grass moves after you get a +2 boost.
 
Speaking of Baton Pass, I was thinking how neat would it be to actual have some new Baton Passers in this Metagame. Looking at some of the best moves to pass, I came under the impression of actually considering Manaphy/Mew/Celebi baton Passing Tail Glows. Manaphy naturally learns Tail Glow and Mew and Celebi naturally learn Baton Pass. All three can benefit in the wallbreaking power of +3 Special Attack too. They are significantly bulky enough. I like Manaphy because it has less common weaknesses (It mainly has to watch out for Serperiors). The only problem I see is that sketching those moves leaves it pretty lackluster in comparison to some of the other shiny new toys that some Pokemon get.

Actually even doing things like standard Contrary Serperior with Baton Pass might be neat to surprise the foes who switch in expecting Fire and Grass moves after you get a +2 boost.
It seems like Heatran might be a good recipient of Serperior's Baton Pass. Serperior lures in faster Flying-types, (perhaps) Ice Shard users, Heatrans, Dragons, Unaware Clefable, all that good stuff; Heatran, especially boosted, is a good check to all of those, and any attack used to hit Serp super-effectively is going to be tanked to hell and back by Heatran.
 
Mass Random Dump of 10 sets
http://pastebin.com/HZgYVYzH
So first thing that came to mind was, Hey. I can boost Garchomp's Speed.
Second came up with Kyurem-B with an Ice Physical STAB.
The others were just having fun.
I was gonna make a Latios, but thought, Wait I can use someone else with defog now... Right come back to that later and settled on a Gengar.
Obviously Altaria and Pinsir came to mind soon too, but the Pinsir was banned so Espeed Altaria woo
Serperior. With Overheat. Why not right? #hascoveragenow
Weavile with Close Combat. It hits more than Sacred Fire so I took it instead.
Then I went back to Latios with Secret Sword beating out those pesky transform Chanseys and covering what HP fighting is supposed to as well.
Talonflame was a set that a certain jeran helped me with. Was gonna be a Dragon's Ascent but he made me use EQ instead. Nice coverage tho.
Porygon-Z with Boomburst destroys dreams with Adaptablity
Aerodactyl with Dragon's Ascent means no more Aerial Ace and some spammy Tough Claws destruction
Feraligatr destroys dreams with Shift Gear meaning it can be Adamant.
Keldeo has coverage without HP now. The dream came true.

Some or All of these may have been mentioned already, but you know... I dont feel like digging through 16 pages rn.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Can Belly Drum Hawlucha be a thing?

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 567-667 (166.2 - 195.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 500-590 (146.6 - 173%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 559-659 (163.9 - 193.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 546-644 (160.1 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 465-547 (136.3 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 335-395 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
Obviously Hawlucha deals the most damage because of Belly Drum, but still.

0- Atk Serperior V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-137 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 107-126 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +4 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 396-468 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 296-350 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Able to check Timid Serperior and set-up to OHKO it. Use a slow U-Turn/Volt Switch or just bring it in after your Pokemon dies, take a V-Create or a Leaf Storm and set up Belly Drum. Granted, he can't belly drum after taking a +2 Leaf Storm.

Downsides: OHKO'd by E-Speed Diggersby, lacks priority, needs to set-up, loses to priority.
Upsides: Has Drain Punch for healing or HJK for flat-out damage, Acrobatics for 110 base STAB, plus a coverage move of your choice. Possible late game sweeper with less defense but more immediate offense than Serperior.

He's probably not good enough compared to E-Speed Diggersby or V-Create Leaf Storm Serperior, but he has his niches, and can also kill Ferrothorn.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (4 HP to have an even health for belly drum sitrus)
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/U-Turn/Baton Pass (Baton Pass actually sounds interesting, but I recommend the coverage of Thunder Punch or Fire Punch. U-Turn helps when your opponent tries to predict the Belly Drum, otherwise post-Belly Drum it's gonna be more detrimental than it is helpful.)
- High Jump Kick/Drain Punch (Offense vs Defense)
- Acrobatics (Great STAB, easily kills Serperior)
I think something useful, but weird and possibly stupid to put in that second slot would be Quick Attack. Doesn't really OHKO anything, but it has the potential to pick of priority users like Talonflame and Thundurus when they try to revenge kill. Extremespeed is still an issue, of course. Figured it would be useful since HJK + Acro already has such good coverage.

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 182-215 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 194-229 (69 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stone Edge/Rock Slide > Thunder Punch. Acrobatics is stronger on anything you'd want to use it on except for Gyarados and other Water/Flying mons who get OHKOd by +6 Acrobatics anyway.
Guys, Hawlucha is fast enough with Unburden, and Adamant gives a notable power increase. Nothing outspeeds you with Unburden activated lol. The spread should be 12 HP (best Sitrus number) / 252 Atk / 244 Spe and Adamant Nature. This gives you 333 speed pre-Unburden, enough to outspeed up to max speed base 100s. Iirc this ties max speed chomp too, but the majority are either adamant for shift gear sets or tankchomp.
 
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Guys, Hawlucha is fast enough with Unburden, and Adamant gives a notable power increase. Nothing outspeeds you with Unburden activated lol. The spread should be 12 HP (best Sitrus number) / 252 Atk / 244 Spe and Adamant Nature. This gives you 366 speed pre-Unburden, enough to outspeed up to max speed Whimsicott (so you can Quick Attack before you get sleeped) or base 115s is the most relevant benchmark if you don't run Quick Attack (such as MegaDoom/Raikou)
I kind of forgot that the only reason for running Jolly in the regular metagame was because SubSD runs Substitute to set up on things like Serperior which it outspeeds with Jolly. You're definitely right that Belly Drum Hawlucha can run Adamant perfectly fine. You've mixed up the numbers though. Jolly gives you 366, while Adamant gives you 333.
 
Guys, Hawlucha is fast enough with Unburden, and Adamant gives a notable power increase. Nothing outspeeds you with Unburden activated lol. The spread should be 12 HP (best Sitrus number) / 252 Atk / 244 Spe and Adamant Nature. This gives you 333 speed pre-Unburden, enough to outspeed up to max speed base 100s. Iirc this ties max speed chomp too, but the majority are either adamant for shift gear sets or tankchomp.
Adamant nature is probably better, but why would 12 HP be better for using Sitrus Berry? It's not like you'll be using Sub twice, you'll just BD once. I guess it would proc after like two ghost-type Curse turns or something else that does exactly 25% of your HP twice, but that's not very useful, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think something useful, but weird and possibly stupid to put in that second slot would be Quick Attack. Doesn't really OHKO anything, but it has the potential to pick of priority users like Talonflame and Thundurus when they try to revenge kill. Extremespeed is still an issue, of course. Figured it would be useful since HJK + Acro already has such good coverage.

+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 182-215 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hawlucha Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 194-229 (69 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stone Edge/Rock Slide > Thunder Punch. Acrobatics is stronger on anything you'd want to use it on except for Gyarados and other Water/Flying mons who get OHKOd by +6 Acrobatics anyway.
Hawlucha can't learn QA.
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Adamant nature is probably better, but why would 12 HP be better for using Sitrus Berry? It's not like you'll be using Sub twice, you'll just BD once. I guess it would proc after like two ghost-type Curse turns or something else that does exactly 25% of your HP twice, but that's not very useful, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
It's because it gets you back to exactly 75% whereas 4 EVs makes you slightly under due to rounding, I think. Plus, you already have max attack and any more speed doesn't help you reach any relevant benchmarks iirc. In fact if I'm wrong and HP/4=whole number isn't the best sitrus number and it just has to be even you could even go 20 / 252 / 236 and still outspeed base 100s while having an even HP number (although I'm reasonably sure being divisible by four is the optimal HP number for BD or Sub Sitrus users)
 
Regarding Mega Alakazam - isn't it already hampered by the fact that non-mega special attackers can use Power Herb + Geomancy?

Porygon-Z @ Power Herb
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
Ability: Adaptability/Download
-Geomancy
-Tri Attack
-Psyshock
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball

Only one weakness and is almost as strong as Xerneas on the offense.
 
Alright, I guess an update is Due.

Mega Alakazam is dropping to A-
Shedinja is dropping to whatever rank is below it
Hawlucha is being ranked in B
Linoone stays unranked (lol)
Mega Venusaur is A-
Porygon-Z is dropping to A
Talonflame moves to A
Cloyster drops to B
Chansey is going to A
Serperior rises to A
Hydreigon drops to B-
Skarmory goes to B+

And with that, a new slate.

Where should Hoopa-C be ranked? LO Shadow ball is bae coming of insane power, is able to Geomancy as it's immune to Extreme speed

Excadrill to A?

Volcarona rise?

Not sure about the rankings right now, nothing glaring stands out. And Clefable isn't dropping.
 
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Regarding Mega Alakazam - isn't it already hampered by the fact that non-mega special attackers can use Power Herb + Geomancy?

Porygon-Z @ Power Herb
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
Ability: Adaptability/Download
-Geomancy
-Tri Attack
-Psyshock
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball

Only one weakness and is almost as strong as Xerneas on the offense.
You get one shot at a Geomancy sweep. That Porygon-Z is hard-stopped by Specially Defensive Tyranitar, for instance, which can proceed to Roar or Dragon Tail it out, and now your Porygon-Z is dead weight.

A Geomancy build shouldn't be investing that much into Speed if its base Speed is decent anyway. (Porygon-Z's Speed is decent) You should invest into HP or Defense instead: at +2 you outspeed almost everything anyway, and bulk makes it easier to get the Geomancy off and makes you more likely to survive priority.

Mega Alakazam can come in repeatedly against a fairly passive team, has good coverage, and +3 175 base Special Attack is way ahead of +2 any other Special Attacker the end. It can also switch in on Trick attempts, and Trace does have niche utility. It's not invalidated by Geomancy by any stretch of the imagination.

It seems like Heatran might be a good recipient of Serperior's Baton Pass. Serperior lures in faster Flying-types, (perhaps) Ice Shard users, Heatrans, Dragons, Unaware Clefable, all that good stuff; Heatran, especially boosted, is a good check to all of those, and any attack used to hit Serp super-effectively is going to be tanked to hell and back by Heatran.
Now that I think about it, Contrary users can bypass the current Baton Pass Clause: V-Create, Baton Pass, done. That's a problem.

Downsides: OHKO'd by E-Speed Diggersby, lacks priority, needs to set-up, loses to priority.
I'd like to point out that Diggersby isn't going to want to switch in on Hawlucha for fear of being OHKOed by High Jump Kick. Diggersby can still revenge Hawlucha of course, but it's risky for it to try to switch in expecting a Belly Drum.
 
You know what's an interesting idea? Sacred Fire Chansey. Its attack stat is abysmal, but with Serene Grace, that's its best option to spread burns as it is more accurate than Will-O-Wisp and ignores Taunt. It does prevent it from cheesing with Transform, sadly. The loss of Natural Cure can be offset somewhat with Heal Bell.

Also, gimmick set time:
Espeon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Timid Nature
-Sticky Web
-Skill Swap
-Psyshock
-Baton Pass / Trick Room

What does this set do? Combine the two moves above to set up Sticky Web on your own side of the field. This is great support for Pokémon like Malamar, Serperior, Bisharp and so on. Furthermore, this is almost like Tailwind for a Trick Room team.
 
alternate setup sweeper 'check'

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 76 HP / 178 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Taunt
- Encore
- Metal Burst

encore them and taunt if they're slow, sash+metal burst KO if they're fast. 76 hp probably unneeded, but I didn't have time to check for HP levels on setup mons in general but 76 hp lets you KO 404 hp mons (max base 100) with metal burst
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
alternate setup sweeper 'check'

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 76 HP / 178 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Taunt
- Encore
- Metal Burst

encore them and taunt if they're slow, sash+metal burst KO if they're fast. 76 hp probably unneeded, but I didn't have time to check for HP levels on setup mons in general but 76 hp lets you KO 404 hp mons (max base 100) with metal burst
Metal Burst doesn't have negative priority so would only work against setup sweepers or scarfers in this case. I'd recommend counter or mirror coat instead, though neither of these is as useful TBH (in fact Alakazam already has access to counter).
 
Metal Burst doesn't have negative priority so would only work against setup sweepers or scarfers in this case. I'd recommend counter or mirror coat instead, though neither of these is as useful TBH (in fact Alakazam already has access to counter).
I think the idea is that, for things that aren't setup sweepers or scarf holders, you Encore them into a setup move. No opinion on the set's efficacy (it seems that things with Priority that don't boost speed would get around it, as would speed boosters with reduced-priority moves), but Metal Burst is definitely justifiable in the context of the set's purpose.
 

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