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Slaking Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Chimera404, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Chimera404

    Chimera404

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    Slaking

    [​IMG]
    |150|160|100|95|65|100​

    Slaking has long been shunned for his horrible ability, Truant, which only allows him to move every other turn. Needless to say, this puts a huge limiter on Slaking's competitive viability.

    On the other hand, this torpid Gorilla/Sloth hybrid has wonderfully distributed stats for UU, including a massive Base 160 Attack and gargantuan Base 150 HP stat that allows him to take neutral physical hits with ease. His Base 65 Special Defense is lackluster but it will still be hard to OHKO Slaking without a boost. While it may seem that this lazy sloth might have a fitting speed stat, a wonderful Base 100 Speed allows it to tie with the premier heavy-hitters of the tier, Victini and Flygon.

    Potential sets:

    All-Out Attacker/Choice Band
    Slaking @ Choice Band/ Life Orb
    Trait: Truant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Return
    - Pursuit/Retaliate
    - Night Slash
    - Earthquake

    Essentially the same set used in the Smogon NU analysis, this set allows it to demolish something before being forced out by Truant. It has a niche over CB Victini because it hits similarly hard while having much better physical bulk. Both want to get out after a single hit anyway, and at least Slaking isn't bait for Pursuit trappers such as CB Weavile, or things that can hit it for SE damage. Return is obviously the attack of choice against anything that doesn't resist it. Night Slash and Earthquake is there for great coverage against most of UU, hitting all Pokemon for neutral damage at least. Retaliate is slashed over Pursuit for its ability to revenge kill with massive power, though Pursuit lets it beat Victini when it swaps out.

    Life Orb is an option for move coverage, but seeing as that Slaking will not generally be staying in, it's a waste of HP. It does allow it to set up on Cofagrigus, however, and then it can go to town with Mummy instead of Truant.

    An alterative set, for those who prefer sheer power over the ability to outspeed things that otherwise can't touch you, is 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd, which allows Slaking to run an Adamant nature and truly smash stuff good while increasing its already impressive bulk.

    Slaking @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Truant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Retaliate
    - Night Slash
    - Earthquake

    Choice Scarf Slaking acts very much like a Scarfed Flygon, with similar speed and much more offensive prowess, scaring out stuff that expects to die. It sacrifices many 2hkos and 1hkos for speed, however, thus it's probably less effective given the team support required to run it. Choice Band is still probably better for Slaking.

    Pokemon analysis:
    Slaking plays very much like Victini in terms of needing to swap out after every hit. Truant is a liability when fighting any Pokemon using Protect first-round, so that must be considered when sending in Slaking on a wall or tank. Unlike Victini, however, it has more opportunities to swap in because it lacks a Stealth Rock weakness. It also has the niche of being able to take out Cofagrigus with impunity, since Truant becomes Mummy after a hit and gives it freedom to smash everything else if it is packing a Life Orb instead of Choice Band.

    Overall, it's not that bad of a Pokemon for hit-and-run raids, and definitely has some potential to be on a team.

    Anyone have anything to say?

    Please don't just bash Slaking, we've got enough of that!
  2. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    So I wrote a great post on why Victini is clearly better than Slaking could ever hope to be, but I closed the tab so now I have to rewrite it. The comparison isn't even fair. Victini has one super strong attack that has the drawback of lowering Defenses and Speed, making it hard to stay in for more than a turn if you happen to be using it. Slaking is guaranteed to do nothing every other turn it is in, with no real way around it. Victini's STAB has VERY few immunities, especially with Chandelure running Flame Body to beat P2. Slaking's STAB has a common immunity. His coverage moves have more common immunities, except for Dark, which isn't powerful enough to spam, especially with Heracross on every team.

    The fact that you talk about "2HKOs" at all just speaks to your ignorance here. 2HKOs as a concept exist because getting the 2HKO means you beat the opponent before it does anything to you. Slaking can never 2HKO a Pokemon, because it can never do the second hit before the opponent gets a free turn to do something. Say you sacrifice a Pokemon and bring in Kingdra or Raikou for free. Guess who gets to boost in your face with zero consequences? Yup, the most threatening sweepers in the metagame do love one free turn. At least with Victini, if you can secure the KO with Zen Headbutt, you have the *option* of hitting again.

    You can't break any walls with Slaking, because walls get free recovery every other turn, and you can't beat a sweeper team with Slaking, because a smart player will just switch in an immunity or sacrifice something and then bring in their set up sweeper. So what is it useful against?
  3. Reaver12

    Reaver12

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    I don't know what point the above poster was trying to make by cutting Slaking's stats in half, because that makes no sense whatsover... In any case Slaking does seem to be a one trick pony for the most part so I don't have too much to say about it. The possibility of losing Truant thanks to the rise of Cofagrigus seems pretty cool, but that's hardly going to happen often enough to warrant it's use. It hits hard, but is extremely predictable and gives your opponent too many free turns to make use of that attack stat.
  4. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    This is pretty much Slaking's whole problem, you cannot really apply constant pressure with it, meaning that anything less than a OHKO is actually making you lose some serious tempo.

    While dividing Slaking's stats by half is retarded, he's making you take double damage everytime he fails to ko a pokemon. Because of this, he ends up being pretty similar to Ambipom, you want to hit hard and fast but you cannot really stay in properly, you have to be predicting correctly to actually deal some damage. Slaking has the advantage that it can switch in on more stuff, but it's poor defensive typing makes it bad at it. Relailate is an awesome move on Slaking, but it's about as predictable as Ambipom's Fake Out and even more narrow.

    So yeah, Slaking is pretty similar to the two-tailed monkey, which is to say, not very hot on Underused. Slaking hits considerably harder but Ambipom has a much better speed.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    If you really want to take advantage of Slaking you would want to pair it with Cofagrigus @ Eject Button. Switch Cofagrigus into a physical attack, mummify the opponent as the eject button withdraws Cofagrigus and brings in Slaking. Slaking can then Pursuit the opponent to make sure it gets mummified and loses Traunt. It's gimmicky, but using Slaking in UU is a gimmick attempt in the first place. Eject Button is a one-time use item, so time it wisely :0.

    Once Slaking successfully pull this off, though, it can certainly be a menace with Bulk Up, Slack Off, and 2 Attacks, imo.
  6. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    One of those attacks needs to be Pursuit according to your own moveset, so I'm guessing Return? Seems like the moveset would be pretty limited if your opponent still has fighting types on the side... But I agree, as far as ways to use Slaking go, that one is pretty dynamic.
  7. Chimera404

    Chimera404

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    I have to disagree with you that 2HKO's (by which I mean >53.125% damage) on walls without recovery is a drawback in any way. It just means that there's another thing in your team that now loses a hard counter. For example, the case with Blastoise: Darmanitan's Flare Blitz does <30% to it, but can outspeed obviously, so Slaking essentially removes it as a counter. Denting nonresisting walls with Slaking works like with any other heavy hitter: smash, then GTFO. It's not meant to sweep, damn it, Truant doesn't let it obviously. It's there to provide a Normal STAB to smash things with and scare stuff out. Heck, nobody said that you had to actually attack. Just use it to threaten stuff if you must. If you're really concerned about damage output and really want to stay in after an attack then run Giga Impact or something.

    About boosting sweepers: Both Raikou and Kingdra are OHKO'd by Return so provided that either of them don't Sub (and Kingdra SubDD sets are being replaced, as far as I've seen, by LO ChestoRest) it's going to eat Slaking's fist. A +1 Kingdra handily 2hkos but that just doesn't matter because it's going to get owned if it attacks. Raikou is more threatening but only if it carries Aura Sphere, but variants that do are outsped by some crucial threats: Mienshao, Cobalion, Virizion, DURANT... It's not a given that the Slaking has to swap out. I will, however, agree that it loses against Sub+Boost sweepers.

    You CAN beat a sweeper team with Slaking. It relies on hitting something then giving the opponent a free turn, but then the opponent's now down a Pokemon, which can make a large difference. In addition, as shown by the examples above, it can be surprisingly hard to set up on Slaking.

    Victini is in the same boat against Kingdra, you know... what with quad resist and all, and the SR weakness is really exacerbated by the multitude of bulky waters in the tier. Immunities be damned, simply resisting V-Create allows bulky waters like CroCune and Milotic to come in free of charge and phaze or 1HKO. Victini can't even beat Physically Defensive Blastoise with Fusion Bolt as it fails to 2hko. Rhyperior is an even more solid counter because all Victini can do in return is use a piss-weak Brick Break while it sets up SR or Rock Polish. At least Slaking can put dents in the bulky waters and Rhyperior with the appropriate coverage move.

    The point is, Slaking IS a 1 trick pony but that doesn't mean it can't keep repeating that trick over and over again.

    Also, don't bring personal insults to an argument. It's unbecoming of someone who is clearly a veteran at this. I am not ignorant of the pitfalls surrounding Slaking usage, but this is a thread not to bash Slaking (we've got those) but to figure out what niche role it can play.

    OK, rant over.

    Neeext!
    @evillocke, I have no idea what you mean to do by cutting his stats in half. Attack makes sense (not base attack though) but why speed? He's still going to outspeed most of UU. Bulk is actually more impressive than you give him credit for because nobody says that he'll be forced to stay in (though that does leave PerishTrapping Mismagius as a problem) so he can afford to take a hit.

    @Pocket, there's a good idea. Gimmicky as heck but it's SLAKING. Damn, that's going to troll so many people!
  8. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    If you actually read what I said, I suggested a hyper offense team would death fodder a weakened Pokemon, then bring in Kingdra, Raikou, whatever on Slaking, when it's now either staying in or switching, but not attacking. You can Sub / DD with Kingdra infinitely on Slaking, or Sub / CM with Raikou. Optionally, two LO Thunderbolts will certainly KO Slaking, though obviously it could switch out of that.

    I don't think Victini is fantastic, but the fact that it isn't necessarily limited to one-and-done offense just makes it competitively more valuable than Slaking. It's also really hard to justify Slaking use when Snorlax, while of course weaker, is just a generally better Normal-type Choice Bander with Thick Fat, 110 Special Defense, and the ability to attack more than one time.

    I will say that Slaking is as good of a Pursuiter as any, since a Choiced Pursuit user stays in for just one turn anyway.
  9. Machi

    Machi

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    Problem here of course is Cofagrigus has a far better role to perform than simply assisting a very one trick or gimmicky Pokemon. Who because of his typing would easily be prey to the plethora of Meinshao or Heracross running rampant in the tier. Put another way your set up is not something you can easily repeat as it relies on a one time use item and the mon you're setting up is very easily forced out thanks to how the current meta is (or heck get phased out by the ever common Blastoise/Snorlax/Suicune). Cofa clearly enjoys his left overs and frankly TR+NP Cofa would outweigh the All out attack Slaking in my book. Moreover, I think you're forgetting the problem with the set you have in mind... You mention Bulk up + Slack off and 2 attacking moves however one moveslot for attacking is already dedicated to pursuit the other would be most likely Slaking's STAB so its not exactly going to be that monstrous... As for the rest cim pretty much nailed it. Another thing is that this gimmick is pretty old, it was one of the earliest discussions regarding how to utilize mummy, so I'd say most people wouldn't be caught off guard by this (I mean if I see a Cofa and a Slaking in one team I sure as hell know what that means).

    That's just it though exactly what niche role are you looking at that isn't already done more efficiently by other Pokemon who aren't necessarily forced out or provide free turns to the opponent by merit of ability. The fact is Slaking's ability hinders him greatly and it is very easily exploitable and quite easily disadvantageous to you. Yes it has power bulk and speed but at the cost of a turn it just doesn't outweigh the disadvantage of truant. Slaking's moves are quite easily predicted as he doesn't exactly scream of a very diverse movepool, your two sets are practically the same with what coverage he carries (normal/EQ/& coverage against Ghosts), which as Cim noted are moves that have type immunities working against them and because of Truant he won't have the opportunity to deliver the finishing blow and instead give a free turn to whatever he couldn't finish (or in another case come in to revenge from what was saced). Slaking's niche is so to speak is to provide a free turn and that is about it, because there certainly are other bulky offensive mons that are capable of hitting hard with their STABs and have much better coverage (you could argue that Slaking has speed but really what use is Speed when at the next turn you forfeit making a move). It doesn't help either that Slaking would compete for a slot with other bulky offensive normal types that fit much more easily into teams, i.e. Snorlax and Porygon2.
  10. Cesterp

    Cesterp

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    I don't personally ever intend on using Slaking for anything because I play games with momentum as my main purpose, but it still does make me very afraid when I'm facing it, simply because I don't build my teams with powerful Normal-type attacks in mind. Maybe if we still had Hippopotas, but we don't.

    At least my main issue with it as a stall breaker is that it automatically loses to anything with Protect. Protect automatically generates a turn for whoever is using it against a Slaking, as the first time the opponent probably won't expect it and the second, you can get a useful double switch. Seeing as how Protect is one of the most common moves on stall teams, you're losing out on the best niche I can see Slaking having as soon as your opponent realizes what's going on.

    However, with that said, I have had a few interesting run-ins with Slaking. I believe in one battle, my opponent had a wish passing Umbreon that would wish, hard switch to Slaking, Giga Imapct/Return/whatever, and that was a relatively effective strategy. The other was just a Scarfed revenge killer type thing. That battle was among the quickest I've ever had. I believe I killed two things to start, he brought in Slaking to revenge, I brought in a banded Azumarill (his fighting resistances being dead already), OHKO'd death fodder. Then my opponent brought Slaking back in, I used death fodder, OHKO. Azumarill, OHKO. Slaking, OHKO. Azumarill, OHKO. Slaking, OHKO. Azumarill OHKO for the win. Sure, the use of Slaking was cool, but didn't exactly work due to the fact that it lost the guy the battle. It was also a bit of luck on his part that nothing on my team could particularly take advantage of a free turn, and I'm sure most other teams can make use of it much better.

    All in all, if you couldn't tell already, I don't think it really has a niche other than that gimmicky Mummy/Eject Button/Pursuit strategy, but I really don't think that something like that qualifies as a niche, especially when special attacks ruin it. If you want a speedy and powerful revenge killer, try Flygon/Raikou/Weavile/Crobat and enjoy NOT losing turns. If you want to use it as a stall breaker, Protect says hi. Stallbreakers by definition should be able to BREAK stall, not generate infinite free turns for the opponent.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, my bad, I forgot one slot must be used for Pursuit. So maybe 3 Atks + Slack Off @ Life Orb then ;d

    But yea, another way to use Slaking is simply to use Choice Band. Usually if you're ahead of the headcount, you can sac your mons to bring in Slaking to kill a mon, rinse and repeat, and you can win by always being ahead of a kill. Slaking has amazing physical bulk, and can occasionally afford to stay in to take whatever hit without resorting to saccing teammates. Ghost-busters are obviously good teammates, and Fighting-types are great for busting Umbreon & Steel-types. Heracross is particularly good since it can also double up in busting most Ghosts like Sableye. Other Protect users, such as Sharpedo and Yanmega can be a bitch, so make sure to have a good check for those, too.
  12. Chimera404

    Chimera404

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    Thanks for your ideas, guys!

    Now, remember, I never said it was GOOD in UU. I just want ideas on how to use it.
    @Pocket, good point, too bad it doesn't work too well in practice. I like the theory, though, and the list of partners is great. Remember, everyone, that Slaking doesn't need to do something every time it comes in. Scaring stuff in, like a Ghost, then swapping to a Ghostbuster is a great way to take in even more free kills (think CB Weavile Pursuit).

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