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Slaking (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Zebraiken, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    [​IMG]

    man he's a real stud

    [Overview]
    • third highest base attack in the game only under deo-a and rampardos
    • deceptively fast, base 100 speed
    • pretty solid bulk too (150/100/65)
    • truant makes him bad, sadly

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return
    move 2: Hammer Arm
    move 3: Pursuit
    move 4: Night Slash
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Truant
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • hit, run, hit, run
    • cb return hits pretty damn hard coming off of base 160 attack
    • hammer arm covers steelix/aggron, rocks, ferroseed
    • pursuit ohkos rotom even when staying in
    • night slash can 2hko cofag and dusknoir, though you can't "2hko" because of truant unless you nab mummy off of cofag u_u

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • ev spread outruns nonscarf krook, rotom, moltres, p-z, lilligant, etc and ohkos all of them with return/pursuit for rotom
    • adamant is an option to hit harder, needs to run 252 spe to tie with entei though and misses out on that base 90 group
    • you could run a bulkier spread, but breaking through that base 90 group and ohkoing them is one of the main draws of slaking
    • jolly double-edge and adamant return put pressure on gligar as it does more than gligar can roost off
    • focus punch can be used if you're gonna go and predict switches, though it has several drawbacks including: if you mispredict you're screwed because you missed its attacking turn
    • toxic can hit tangrowth, other switch-ins
    • earthquake for qwil
    • beaten mostly through prediction + the fact it cannot attack multiple turns in a row, so recovery
    • entry hazard support is great because slaking forces a lot of switches
    • would like partners to deal with steelix, tangrowth, common physical walls. moltres is a start and also likes having base 90s + rotom/krook removed so it can sweep unhindered too
    • SPIN SUPPORT for keeping bulk intact since it'll be switching all the time
    • also fighting-typed partners to take advantage of rock/steel switchins, ex. hitmonchan w/ ice punch, also has rapid spin
    • cofagrigus is notable if only because you can shift mummy around and possibly get it on slaking

    [Other Options]
    • rock slide; moltres is already ohkod by return
    • choice scarf; slaking is fast enough to do what it needs to do already, and otherwise needs to hit as hard as it can to mitigate truant
    • e-punches; stab return outdamages them, even when super effective (except gligar and ferroseed who are 4x weak to ice/fire)
    • GIGA IMPACT; despite being super insane powerful strong, you are forced to stay in and give the opponent free turns after usage :/
    • retaliate; only 10bp weaker than giga impact on turn after a KO, but pitiful 70 bp otherwise makes it a pretty bad option
    • sucker punch
    • bulk up and other boosts; lol

    [Checks and Counters]
    • truant turns in general allow setup, recovery, status, etc
    • protect and substitute, ye evil fiends
    • physical walls: see gligar, tangrowth, steelix, etc
    • dusknoir NOT COFAGRIGUS DONT USE COFAG

    [Dream World]
    • if only
  2. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    One option that has been left out from this analysis that i think deserves a mention is double-edge. It was a move tutor move that Slaking got way back in gen 3 but seeing as Blissey is still able to use wish, which it received in gen 3, double-edge should probably still be an option. The only move that Slaking would not be able to use with it is night slash, meaning it loses out on 2hkoing some ghosts, but double edge is around 17% stronger than return and the extra move slot could be filled with ice punch for Gligar (it does 87 - 104% compared to return 45 - 53%), fire punch for Ferroseed (it does 109% min compared to earthquake 36 - 43%) or hammer arm, which if it is super effective will be hitting harder than double-edge.

    EDIT: Punishment is also an option with double-edge for ghosts, but it has ten less bp and only 5 pp
  3. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    Double-Edge could be worth a mention but unless it guarantees any OHKOs that Return wouldn't, I think the recoil is enough of a turn-off. I'll go do some calcs though and see if it gets anything. I'll also mention the elemental punches + 4x SE targets in OO, though really hitting Gligar and Ferroseed isn't really worth one move apiece imo.
  4. Metal Bagon

    Metal Bagon

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    Giga Impact should be slashed with return. I'm pretty sure that with truant you still only lose one turn. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the cartridge that's how it worked.
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    The difference is that with Giga Impact you're forced to stay in the turn that Slaking would be losing with Truant. When using Return, you can switch after using it. There is a net loss of one turn when using Return; whereas if you were to use Giga Impact and wanted to switch after using it you'd be giving your opponent two free turns. It's definitely OO.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I would definitely slash Adamant on Slaking, since it really wants to dish hits as hard as it can to compensate for Traunt. If you go Adamant, 252 Spe is suggested to tie with Entei. With Adamant Nature, it would be easier to wear down Gligar (with SR), by dishing more damage than Gligar can Roost off in one turn and forcing it out with a special attacker. Double-Edge is good for the same reason, particularly if Slaking is Jolly, so definitely mention it in the AC or slash it with Return.

    Hammer Arm should replace Earthquake, imo. It's a better option since it hits Rock and Steel Types hard while hitting Ferroseed as well. The speed drop is negligible when it is a hit-and-run mon anyways.

    Definitely mention that Rapid Spin support is very useful for keeping Slaking's bulk intact, and to prevent it from wearing down from the frequent switches. Fighting Types that can also hurt Gligar / Tangrowth / Dusknoir / Cofagrigus are also useful, since Fighters can take advantages of the Rock and Steel-type switch-ins that Slaking attracts. Gallade is a good example. Hitmonchan is a Fighting-type that can Rapid Spin and packs Ice Punch for Gligar :d
  7. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Definitely mention Cofagrigus as a teammate. Mummy can get passed to the opposing team, which can easily get passed to Slaking as well. It also walls the Fighting-types that love to come in on Slaking to KO it.
  8. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    @ Pocket: Gligar wins regardless, because it can Roost over two turns while Slaking only gets to hit it once. I'm still really "ehhh" on Double-Edge unless it pushes something important into OHKO range.

    I made the rest of the changes though. Thanks. :3

    @ EonADS: mentionnnnnned
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Zebraiken, you only give Gligar 1 free turn by switching out after the turn Slaking dishes its move. With SR, Gligar would not be able to Roost off all the damage, especially if it's an Adamant Return or Jolly Double-Edge.
  10. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    Point taken. I was misunderstanding a bit at first. XD
  11. Honko

    Honko
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    I'm on the fence about this guy. Obviously his power and speed are great and Truant sucks, but the real problem is that things like SubSplit Rotom, SubBU Gallade, and SubMoxie Honchkrow are so common and so good. These things are hard enough to beat normally, but they become much harder when Slaking gives them free turns. Basically every match Slaking should get at least 1 KO, but the guaranteed free turn after the KO can be enough to let your opponent sweep. I'm having trouble thinking of a team where Slaking's advantages over other CBers like Bouffalant, Entei, and Aggron would be enough to make it worth it.

    Convince me plz.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    Slaking can actually take Rotom itself out with Pursuit, even if it stays in, providing Rotom has switched into SR once or has suffered LO recoil. It can also come in on predicted Shadow Balls. Therefore if you play Slaking as a trapper, Rotom can be eliminated with smart play.

    Regarding the other Substitute users, obviously Slaking can't do much. It can use Giga Impact to easily crush +1 BU Gallade, but that's situational and obviously doesn't solve the Truant problem. Mabye mention partners that can deal with the Substitute users? I love Slaking, but Honko makes a good point: RU is filled with Substitute, which really hinders Slaking
  13. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    After looking through Slaking's movepool I could only see two moves that somewhat deal with substitute users, those being encore and and lol fury swipes. Encore you'd have to switch after using, so if you did encore a sub then the next turn would probably be a double switch. With a whopping base power of 18 and accuracy 80, fury swipes should not be used. It does succeed (if jolly) in always breaking Honch's sub, as well as Sceptile's, Hitmonchan's and sometimes Gallade's (does 22.25 - 26.11% without a bulk up boost) in one hit, but that's really all it does.
    Btw Honko those damage calculators you made are the best tools I've ever used, great job with them!
  14. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    I definitely agree. Substitute users like Honchkrow and Gallade are by far the biggest issues with using Slaking. Rotom is, too, but I'd like to imagine that Slaking is used to remove Rotom than to let it come in for free and pop up a Sub. And while Encore is in its moveset it's not a brilliant idea to use it, considering that those Substitute users are coming in after it kills something and propping up a Sub on the Truant/switch-out turn because Slaking outspeeds all of them.

    And that sort of brings me to my justification of Slaking: while the opponent can use the Truant turns to their advantage, the only way that happens is when Slaking kills something. Because of this, the best way to utilize Slaking is a) with a lot of entry hazards to limit those switch-in's opportunities, and b) with a team that is well-equipped to handle such threats. For example, Qwilfish would make for an excellent partner as it has Intimidate to drop both Honchkrow and Gallade's Attack stats before they can even put up those Substitutes (and if EV'd to outspeed Bulk Up Gallade, can beat that through process of Taunt/Waterfall). Qwilfish also gets Spikes, making it that much easier for Slaking to wear everything down. Steelix likewise is a solid partner, handing both Rotom and Honchkrow pretty well and setting up SR for Slaking to abuse. If Slaking is going to be on a team, it needs to be part of the central focus of the team rather than simply slapped on. Slaking can systematically bring down an entire team, while entry hazards can wear down very quickly on those Substitute users (who lose even more HP by using Substitute, remember) and are one of the few ways to handle Slaking well.

    As far as what it has over other common CB users... the primary reason to use it would obviously be its monstrous Attack stat and the fact that it's the only one out of those mentioned that outspeed base 90s, a pretty damn threatening speed tier with Porygon-Z, Moltres, Rotom, and Krookodile all hanging around there. It's also not SR weak like Entei, nor does its main STAB have recoil (unless you use Double-Edge I suppose). Clearly they all have advantages, since Entei has ExtremeSpeed + Flare Blitz, Aggron has Head Smash, and Bouffalant has Sap Sipper, but Slaking still has his and I think it's worth an analysis.
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    K I have decided to reject Slaking. While Slaking's power is phenomenal, most of the time he turns out to be more of a liability than an asset. This is made even more pronounced considering the most common sets for most of the top Pokemon are Sub sets (SubRoost Honch, SubSplit Rotom). Allowing a Pokemon a free setup every time it comes in is not a great thing to have on a team. And the walls that Slaking does pressure, other Pokemon such as Porygon-Z and Durant do just as well, if not better than Slaking.

    QC Rejected 1/3
  16. Honko

    Honko
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    Yeah, sorry I forgot about this, but I just don't think it's worth it.

    QC Rejected 2/3
  17. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    QC REJECTED 3/3

    I could see it having a niche but not enough of one for an analysis.
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    moving to L&O

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