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Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by tawp64, Sep 28, 2010.
Hah! That's funny! XD.
They should call this strategy "Hollywood"
Because they make movies about giant monkeys and mummies in Hollywood.
They should call this strategy "poor farfetched (farfetch'd?) idea"...
Really if you see a person with a desukan and a slaking on team preview, it's rather obvious what's up. And hell Slaking isn't really the best poke with only 3 movesets and the need to waste a turn.
Say I have my bandtar out. You switch in Desukan; it lives with a sliver (or dies, doesn't matter) and you switch to slaking. At this point you're either OHKOed by crunch (if you use pursuit or return) or maybe KO with earthquake and waste a turn.
It's a bad strategy.
Well, if you're going to use it, use it with Escape Button.
If they called it poor farfetched idea then people would think that's a weird name for a strategy.
Also if you name them then they won't be able to tell right away, and, if you have a hasty opponent, they'll just look at the names.
Of course, the Slaking and Desukan minisprites, are, while mini, quite distinctive.
Let me map out what I meant for you.
Tyranitar used Crunch!
It's super effective!
Tyranitar acquired Mummy!
Desukan used its Escape Button! (Or Desukan fainted!)
P2 switched in Slaking!
Slaking used Pursuit (or Slaking used EQ... and has to keep its shitty ability for the whole match if desukan was koed)!
Tyranitar lost a very small amount of its health (or if you use EQ probably most/all of it) but was not KOed!
Tyranitar used crunch!
Slaking lost shittons of health or was KOed!
You just wasted 2 pokemon for a crappy strategy!
Plus there's also some pokes that just take little from whatever you do... nattorei for example will laugh at your attempts to damage it with your weakling unSTABed EQ and leech seed.
I'd doubt that most people would make anything of it or are unaware of this strategy. If they actually know it, that would be quite impressive. I didn't until this thread.The point is to get rid of Truant so there is no wasting a turn cause of that. If Tyranitar obtains Mummy, it will pass it to Slaking whether it attacks or runs (why would it run??). You WOULDN'T switch Desukan into Tyranitar, Tyranitar is more switching in on it. Once burned, Tyranitar does an average 54.38% with Choice Band Crunch and it could also be that there is a Justice Heart on the team which makes Crunch somewhat wary. A burned pursuit is only a 4 hit ko and after the first hit Desukan would escape and Slaking would come in. Pursuit would dopathetic (15.19-17.91%)damage to Slaking and while Tyranitar might try to run, either way Slaking will obtain the precious Mummy ability which NEGATES Truant.
Once all phazers and Latios is gone, Slaking will utterly destroy most teams. And this is better than Farfetched. You seem to be really underestimating this. While not like Inconsistent (say what? That is no strategy, just like), Doryuzu, or other more known threats, this thing could be dangerous since people will underestimate Slaking's surviveability, especially when it can run Slack Off without Truant due to Mummy. Phazers and certain steels and special attackers like Latios, Darkrai, Gengar, Shandera, etc can be annoying but once those are dead...
No duh Nattorei, Skarmory, Hippowdon are evil. That is why there is a TEAM. It requires a bit more support than most pokes, but not THAT much since it is ridiculously strong against most people and this is really the only viable way to play it in singles (or anywhere since there are better double partners and I don't know about triple.
Or you could just not switch in Desukan on a Band-tar from the start and set up on something that, well, doesn't have over 400 attack...
And why the hell would you switch in a ghost on a Dark-type? The fact that a strategy can be made useless, provided the person using the strategy chooses the absolute worst time to try it, doesn't mean that the strategy is a bad one.
Slaking is super bulky, especially physically. This strategy seems like it would work.
Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch: 57.6-68.03% (Mummy and Bulk Up will turn Mach Punch into pittance damage and Frustration ohkos)
Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch: 32.88-39%
Defensive Verizion Sacred Sword: 36.73-43.54%
Life Orb Max Attack Verizion Close Combat: 80.73-95.69% (Frustration kills back)
Choice Band Adamant Tyranitar Crunch: 44.9-53.06%
Adamant Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vrs +1 Slaking: 68.03-80.27% (+1 Frustration deals 75.8-89.68% so it could actually win with 3 layers of Spikes)
Timid Life Orb Shaymin-S Air Slash: 40.36-47.62%
Timid Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare: 64.170-75.4%
Life Orb Darkrai's Dark Pulse (Focus Blast ohko 58.97% time):46.49-55.1%
Modest Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor: Ohko
Modest Choice Specs Latios Surf: 45.58-53.74%
Modest Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse: 64.85-76.42%
Modest Choice Scarf Shandera Overheat: 73.7-87.07% (any fire move 2 hit koes)
Timid Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast: 90.7-107.3% (41.03% ohko)
Guts Boosted Max attack Roopushin Mach Punch: 46.71-55.78%
Guts Boosted Max attack Roopushin Drain Punch vrs +1 Slaking: 58.5-69.39% (if Slaking got Bulk Up boost, Roopushin will lose)
I reiterate...Wow. This is ridiculous. I didn't know Slaking was so bulky (Truant never helped obviously) but with Bulk Up/Slack Off...
+2 Frustration 2 hit koes Tyranitar, Brongzong, Special Defensive Forretress, and pretty much everyone else not immune. +1 Pursuit manages to kill Shandera with Stealth Rock which is important since Shandera can 2 hit ko Slaking. Really bulky Desukan might be a problem since you only have a weak Pursuit but as long as they don't start throwing Disable or Power Share around, +4 Pursuit will 2 hit ko.
Wait, is this Slaking with or without investment in defense/special defense/hp because a 65 SpD sucks
441 hp/460 Atk/262 Def/203 SAtk/200 SDef/240 Spd
252 Atk/104 Def/136 SDef/18Spd
I accidentally repeated myself so I removed the first stat list above.
Well 150 base hp goes a long way to fixing that...
Yeah, this seems like a workable strategy, it just has a major problem when it comes down to slaking having only 4 moveslots for return, pursuit, slack off, bulkup, earthquake and firepunch aswell as whether or not its worth it. This set would give you a truantless slaking with 460 base attack when maxed. Instead of having to use desukan and using an unreliable strategy, you could just use a sd garchomp which would reach 718 attack when jolly.
You could at that. But then an opposing Garchomp meanie or Ditto will hit back at you with that. The advantage of Frustration is that the happiness bar is usually set to happy which makes Ditto's Frustration much weaker. But out of curiousity then, would it copy Mummy or Truant if Ditto switched in? If it copied Truant go lolsy.
I found Bulk Up/Slack Off/Frustration/Pursuit to be the only real viable set that justifies this elaborate set up. It is pointless to go through all this effort to get rid of Truant if you're not going to make Slaking become an insane menace with Bulk Up since without it, it is entirely outclassed by pretty much every set up sweeper since they don't need the extra preparation. Slack Off is necessary to recover hp. Pursuit is necessary to guarantee Mummy as your opponent is not going to give you it. And Frustration is necessary for stab.
I consider it to be worth the attempt of setting up, looking at what Slaking could survive which is ridiculous. Only a few Pokemon can threaten it once it's mummified and Bulk Up. Skarmory/Hippowdon Phaze, Darkrai, Gengar, Latios, Manaphy after Tail Glow (although +1 Frustration can ohko min/min Manaphy and without a Special Attack boost, Manaphy can't ko), Shandera, Shaymin-S flinch hax (unless Mummy can work on Air Slash in which case laugh), Kojondo Blaziken and Infernape before Bulk Up, Lucario if no Spikes and Bulk Up, and Terakion are the only ones I can think of right now. Little else can deal enough damage/phaze it out before dying before it's wrath.
Again, +2 Frustration pretty much 1-2 hit koes everything that isn't immune. It kills Tyranitar for heavens sake and unless they luck with critical Stone Edge (which without Choice Band would still only deal 81.86%)
I must say this
After 1 Bulk Up Slaking takes
78-95.2% from Life Orb Blaziken (OMG!!!) Hi Jump Kick
72.56-86.17% from Life Orb Kojondo Hi Jump Kick
73.47-87.07% from Guts activated Nageki Mountain Storm (Then again, if they were smart, they would Overhead Throw to force Slaking out of Battle as it barely survives +1 Frustration)
IT SURVIVES F-ING BLAZIKEN HI JUMP KICK AFTER 1 BULK UP!
Frustration/Return has 102 base power. So it would be Slaking's most reliable STAB.
Because it's exactly the same as Return, sounds cooler on the ape king, and Ditto can't use it against you since they're happiness will be much higher than your's (I think) making it much weaker. 102 Base power stab.
Frustration is "easier" to use because IIRC, every PO pokémon's happiness is set to 0 by default so, if you choose it over Return, you have no risk of forgetting to change the happiness value to 255.
Idk, about that Mummy strategy. Even if we suppose it works, I doubt Slaking would be that useful even without Truant. His Speed isn't as good as it was last gen, his STAB was never good, and his Special Defense is still as shitty as ever. Plus, I'm starting to get wary of any physical sweeper that can't at least cause massive damage to Skarm or Hippowdon after one turn of setup. Plus, mandatory Pursuit? Come on.
In a metagame where you're allowed to use the likes of Darkrai, Shaymin, and Deoxys, do you really want to waste your time on this guy? After all of that gimmick fun has worn off, you'll have to submit to the fact that Slaking is terrible and always will be.
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that the default form of playing this game is still an emulator. I just remembered it being easier to keep Happiness high in-game, since winning builds Happiness.
As far as I can see, the Ditto factor is basically nil for a Slaking with Bulk Up and Slack Off (which is what we were talking about, I think). Bulk Up increases his Defense as much as his Attack, so Ditto will only be doing as much damage as he would to an unboosted Slaking. 5 Slack Offs and Ditto will be Struggling. I could see myself using either move.
And what's to stop the opponent from anticipating people using Frustration over Return and draining his Ditto's Happiness?
1) Not a lot of Pokemon run Return to begin with.
2) You lose to people running Return (the majority of them).
3) No one will ever think of that or even have it cross their subconscious until it happens to them.
Or see people discussing it here.
1.) What? Return is an obligatory coverage move for so many different Pokémon, many Water-types for one such as Kingler and Floatzel. And for most, it's the most reliable STAB they have in their arsenal, such as Slaking, Regigigas, Staraptor, Zangoose, Tauros, Stantler, Kecleon, Exploud, and Licki; there's probably a few more, but you get the point, and this is only 4th Gen.
2.) Huh? How...
3.) Well, as soon as one person experiences this the news will spread and tweaking is in order. That's like what happened to Snovers', Hippopotas, Abomasnows' and Kyogres' IVs so they have their Weather support activated last. No one thought of that, but it caught on fast.
If it works, it can be pretty fun. While his speed is meh without investment, he still outruns the slow things and is insanely bulky. That is wrong to say his stab isn't good because it hits everything but Steel and Ghost really hard and he can do massive damage to Hippowdon with +1 Frustration (2 hit ko), it's just you want him and Skarmory gone because you don't want to be Roared out making him get back Truant when he comes again.
It is a fun strategy that is fun to beat people with. I don't see why you wouldn't use him with Darkrai, Shaymin, and Deoxys considering those are all special attackers and Slaking's physical. Unlkess you mean them hitting him. Yes, they hit Slaking hard. But unless they're using Focus Blast, Slaking can survive to kill back. Terakion is the only physical attacking poke who doesn't care about +1 Slaking and kill with a physical move back.
The only reason Slaking is terrible is because of Truant. If he had anything else, he would have been OU-Borderline Uber-Uber and you have to resort to some tricky things to use him in singles to stop Protect/Substitute/Prediction from ruining you.
A strong special attack like Draco Meteor or something will put Slaking out early. My point is that this gen, we have Pokemon who are just as powerful, if not more (better STAB) than Slaking with no drawbacks. Plus, the power isn't as godly when you consider your only STAB is Normal, which is generally not a very good attacking type at all.
I can see Borderline Uber maybe from Regigigas w/o Slow Start, who can also run a Bulk Up set (but sorely misses Taunt to stop the phazing from physical walls), only better because of its incredible Spike in special defense and the newly improved 75 BP Drain Punch it can learn. The power increase makes it so that even a behemoth like Slaking is no longer a big deal (again, assuming no Truant).
Then again, all this talk of Bulk Up reminds me of Roopushin, who has all of the things Slaking and Regigigas could have used to begin with, sans speed, and still manages to keep itself out of possible Uber discussions. Hmm.
Those guys are, for the most part, terrible, and Ditto wouldn't really want to copy them anyway. In the Standard metagame, Return is rarely seen because most of the Pokemon in it have decent enough movepools to where they wouldn't have to resort to such a drastic coverage measure.