1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Slowpoke (Analysis) [QC 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by KratosAurion, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    [​IMG]

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/079.shtml

    [Overview]

    <p>Slowpoke presents itself in Gen V, rather than a hard hitting Pokemon or a fast sweeper, as a very bulky tank who can weather most Physical assaults from several popular Pokemon in Gen V metagame such as Gligar, Dokkora, Meditite, and Kojofuu. Slowpoke has also recieved several important buffs in Gen V, mainly Boil Over, Regeneration, and, above all else, an indirect change around the game, the presence of many powerful Fighting Type Pokemon. Yet, Slowpoke has always been a very useful Pokemon, ever since Gen IV, where it could shrug off attacks from Mankey and Machop effortlessly. However, Slowpoke becomes a key Pokemon in Generation V thanks to the boosts it has recieved. Once the dust settles, we'll be seeing more of this new and improved Pokemon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Zen Headbutt
    move 2: Boil Over / Surf
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Fire Blast / Ice Beam
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Regeneration / Own Tempo
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 196 Hp / 76 Atk / 236 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Slowpoke set provides a very reliable answer to many of the Fighting Type Pokemon commonly seen in the Little Cup Metagame, as well as a way to stop powerful Physical attackers such as Gligar in their tracks. Given the overall high defense this particular set sports, in addition to reliable healing, courtesy of Slack Off and Regeneration, this Slowpoke is really difficult to take down without the use of Special moves. Zen Headbutt and Psychic are the STAB options of choice, making these the premier Moves of this set, which is focused into taking on Fighting Type Pokemon, and providing realiable ways to KO Pokemon such as Dokkora, Kojofuu, and Meditite. However, Zen Headbutt is the preferred option, given how Zen Headbutt is a guaranteed 2HKO on all Dokkora, whereas Psychic has 0.07% chance to 2HKO. Boil Over is another excellent option to consider with this set, given it's 30% chance to Burn, STAB, and the overall usefulness of a Water Type move. Ice Beam is there especially for taking on Gligar, allowing for a 2HKO on any Gligar, with Evolution Stone factored in. With Evolution Stone, this Slowpoke is not 2HKOed by +2 Earthquake, which makes it an excellent answer to the Flyscorpion Pokemon so commonly seen in Gen V LC. Finally, Toxic provides Slowpoke with options to take on Pokemon such as Mantyke and other Water Type Pokemon Slowpoke may run into. It also gives Slowpoke a way to, aside from Burns, prevents Zuruggu Sweep by stalling using a combination of Toxic, Slack Off or Boil Over to reduce Zuruggu's Hp into Priority range from Pokemon such as Croagunk. Slack Off, of course, is there to provide reliable healing, restoring 50% of Slowpoke's Hp upon usage, which, given the EVs suggested, translates into 14 Hp per use. Thunder Wave is generally useful as a supporting Move, allowing Slowpoke's teamates to prepare a sweep. Fire Blast is a very handy option, allowing Slowpoke to take on Tesshiido, outrunning standard Relaxed Nattorei by 1 point, and damaging Tesshiido for 66.67% - 83.33%, which is effectively a 2HKO.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This Set posseses great synergy with Pokemon who would like Fighting Types or Gligar neutralized, such as Zuruggu and Houndour. As a matter of fact, what this particular Set can boast, is that Meditite cannot 2HKO it with any combination of Moves, Dokkora's Payback is effectively 100 Base Power thanks to the Super Effective damage, yet, it still fails to 2HKO, inflicting 21.43% - 28.57% damage on average, while Zen Headbutt OHKOes. Regarding Move legality, Slowpoke losses Aqua Tail while using Regeneration, making the latter the prefered option thanks to it's general usefulness, and how it greatly assists with Switch ins. </p>

    <p>Slowpoke could also run Toxic on any of it's sets in order to deal effectively with opposing Water Types, or attempt to stall it's opponents by using Slack Off plus it's natural bulk. Psychic is an alternate STAB option over Zen Headbutt, however, Zen Headbutt is the preferred option most of the time given how Zen Headbutt can safely 2HKO Dokkora, and Meditite, whereas Psychic misses the 2HKO, and inflicts less damage on Standard Meditite.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room
    move 1: Zen Headbutt / Aqua Tail
    move 2: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    move 3: Trick Room
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Regeneration / Own Tempo
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 196 Hp / 76 Atk / 236 Def
    Spe IV: 0

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Slowpoke can also be an excellent Trick Room setup, thanks to it's overall bulk, low speed and Regeneration. The moves on this set take in mind what Slowpoke should generally see. Zen Headbutt and Aqua Tail provide STAB options, however, Aqua Tail is illegal with Regeneration, however, using Own Tempo allows for this combination. Regeneration, however, allows Slowpoke to continiously switch in to refresh Trick Room, whereas Own Tempo allows Slowpoke to switch into Machop's DynamicPunch, outrun, and threaten with Zen Headbutt.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    The choice between Ice Beam and Fire Blast comes down to preference, and to the Team's needs. Under Trick Room conditions, Slowpoke outruns Gligar and 2HKOes with Ice Beam, outrunning Gligar's Roost. Fire Blast allows Slowpoke to defeat Tesshiido after Trick Room, outrunning Tesshiido under Trick Room only, however. It's worth noting, however, that Fire Blast is a 2HKO, and Tesshiido inflicts about 7.14% - 21.43% with each Bullet Seed hit, giving it a chance to OHKO Slowpoke, even with the bulky spread suggested above.

    [Team Options]

    <p>Slowpoke generally doesn't require too much support, however, given the proper threat elimination, Slowpoke can become incredibly difficult to take down. Slowpoke has great synergy with Pokemon such as Houndour or Komatama, who eliminate Grass, and Ghost Types who pleague Slowpoke. From th other side of the idea, Zuruggu greatly appreciates Slowpoke taking care of Dokkora, Gligar and assorted Fighting Types who could prevent it's sweep. This is the same case with Komatama, mentioned above. Slowpoke also appreciates Fighting Type Pokemon who can take care of Dark Types, and Pokemon who can take Grass and Electric Moves. As a matter of fact, Tesshiido makes a great partner along Slowpoke, Slowpoke taking Fire and Fighting Moves for Tesshiido, while Tesshiido blocks Dark, Grass and Electric attacks who pleague Slowpoke. These two also form quite a formidable Stalling duo, or a very useful core for any Little Cup Team. </p>

    [Optional Changes]
    <p>Slowpoke could also find itself running a Curse Set using Aqua Tail, Zen Headbutt, Curse, and Slack Off with a more Special Defensive Spread, similarly to Munchlax. However, Munchlax performs this set more efficiently.</p>

    <p>A Calm Mind set is also available, however, given Slowpoke's 40 Base Sp. Attack, it would require several boosts in order to significantly dent anything that would come to stop it's setup.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Despite walling a good amount of common Pokemon, Slowpoke can be set up on by a few good Pokemon. Carvanha, for example, can come in in any of Slowpoke's common Moves barring Toxic, and instantly threaten with Crunch. Aside from Carvanha, Chinchou and Mantyke with Hidden Power Electric can come in on Slowpoke, and threaten with Super Effective moves, whereas Slowpoke can only retaliate with Zen Headbutt, or Toxic. Pururiru can also come into Slowpoke without Toxic, and use Shadow Ball or Evil Eye against the weaker side of Slowpoke's defences. It's also worth noting that Houndour can switch into Slowpoke that lack Water moves or Earthquake, and threaten with STAB Dark moves, being immune to both, Fire Blast and Zen Headbutt, resistant to Ice Beam.</p>

    <p>Grass Types such as Tesshiido can come in relatively safely, and proceed to Leech Seed Slowpoke. Monmen and Tesshiido are the prime examples, since both can come in on all of Slowpoke's Moves, Monmen can Encore Slowpoke into Toxic, Boil Over or Slack Off, and provide a teamate with a free turn of setup, and Tesshiido is not botherred by anything Slowpoke could throw at it, whereas it can use both, Leech Seed and Bullet Seed to get rid of Slowpoke for good.</p>
  2. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Marking this as done, unless further expansion on Curse or Calm Mind sets is required.

    However, I doubt of the competitive value of these sets. Otherwise, it's ready for a review.

    EDIT: After adding Trick Room, and changing a couple of things, it is once again ready for a review.
  3. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Why does he have Atk EVs invested when there's only one physical attack slashed anywhere on the set? Toxic also isn't that great in Little Cup, since everything dies in a few hits anyway... I'd suggest unslashing Toxic and going with something like this for the set:

    - ZHeadbutt / Psychic
    - Aqua Tail / Boiling Water
    - Ice Beam / Earthquake
    - Slack Off

    I personally had the most success with Slowpoke when I used him either all physical or as a primarily-physical mixer (IE, ZHeadbutt/Aqua Tail/Ice Beam/Slack Off). Boiling Water could be slashed in front of Aqua Tail, since the burn chance helps his tanking, but in Little Cup, a 30% chance of burning isn't nearly as good as it is in OU (Slowpoke will rarely have time to use several turns attempting to burn something). You might also want to explain ZHeadbutt VS Psychic, or more likely, figure out why Psychic isn't outright worse than Zheadbutt on something with the higher Attack stat and no Sp. Atk EVs.

    Also, where is the TR Sweep/Setup set?

    - TR
    - Zheadbutt
    - Aqua Tail
    - Slack Off / Earthquake / Fire Blast (for Teshiido)
    Set can afford to go more offensive in the EVs too.
  4. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Um, where's Own Tempo? Should be mentioned somewhere for them Machops. Even if there aren't many of them.

    Shouldn't Psychic be slashed over ZHB? It hits bulk up pokemon better and lets you make the set all special attacks on primary slashes, which is cool, because you can put SpA evs on to the set with a free heart.

    Also, Thunder Wave>>>>>Toxic

    Echoing Fire Blast for Tessy. I know I wouldn't see that coming.

    Does LO Thunderpunch off 28 attack really not 2HKO Slowpoke?

    Banryu, Slowpoke doesn't get EQ.
  5. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    First point in order, Regeneration is illegal with Aqua Tail, as it says in the Analysis.

    The Atk EVs are there in order to use an optimized EV Spread. The extra attack point is more important for Zen Headbutt's output, and it's better than investing in Sp. Attack when Ice Beam 2HKOes Gligar. With the 76 EVs, Slowpoke reaches 13 Atk, which is pretty respectable for a defensive Pokemon.

    And I'd rather run Zen Headbutt to take advantage of it. Earthquake doesn't really offer that much, since the only thing you're hitting over Boiling Water, is as I see, Chinchou. Also, Boiling Water's 30% Burn chance helps defeat Mischievous Heart Feather Dance Murkrow, which often cut loose Sucker Punch in favor of Drill Peck.

    And... damm, I knew I was forgetting something with this. And as far as the Trick Room set goes, I don't see Slowpoke Sweeping, but I do see it setting up. But in this case too, Regeneration still outperforms the other Abilities, even at the cost of a Move.

    EDIT: I've so far seen no Meditite with Thunderpunch. Nor Zuruggu. I'll slash Fire Blast, and change the Moves on the first set.

    Either Zen Headbutt / Psychic, then any combination of 2 Moves.

    EDIT 2: Appointed changes have been included, Ice Beam, given it's importance, has a slot, whereas Fire Blast, Boil Over, Toxic and Thunder Wave are secondary options of choice.

    Thanks everyone for the comments, Do say if there's anything that can be improved.
  6. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Wuddafuq? D:< I thought it did... some sucka with Slowpoke totally EQ'd me in a 4th Gen match a while ago, I totally remember that... >.> *checks*

    ...yeah, Poke does get EQ. :0
    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/079.shtml
    Smogon's dex also has it listed as a move. It might not be one of his better options, but might as well take advantage of that Attack stat was my thinking with mentioning that. :0

    Anyway, yeah, forgot Twave and Own Tempo. Both are excellent on him, though I kind of like Regeneration better this gen. Anyway, I can see ZHeadbutt/Boiling Water/Ice Beam with the said spread working, I did think it kind of odd though when Psychic was an option over the only physical move on the set. :0

    EDIT:
    Cut out your tongue, man, Slowpoke still totally has it as a TR sweeper. Own Tempo is an option if you want to opt for Aqua Tail, but Slowpoke still gets Surf if you want Regeneration, so there's that. Personally, I'd rather have Own Tempo with TR+ZHB+Aqua Tail+Fire Blast/Slack Off.
  7. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    As a matter of fact, Psychic shouldn't be an option, Zen Headbutt is too necesarry for it to be replaced. Changing.

    That said, I think that's it, correct? I shall, once again, mark it as done.
  8. Shnoogle

    Shnoogle

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    213
    Psychic should be the primary slash as it has more accuracy and can hit Bulk Up Dokkora much harder than Zen Headbutt after it uses Bulk Up.
  9. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,678
    Personally, I think Ice Beam is a waste of a slot; Boil Over / Surf handles Gligar anyway.
  10. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,745
    I agree with Heysup. I think the set should look something like:

    - Zen Headbutt
    - Boil Over (or w/e) / Surf
    - Fire Blast / Ice Beam / Thunder Wave
    - Slack Off

    with everything else in AC (meaning Toxic, Psychic, etc)
  11. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Both of these suggestions have been taken into account, and the Analysis has been editted accordingly. Thanks for the reviews guys.
  12. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    First set looks pretty good, I just have nitpicks with the TR set now... both of Slowpoke's STABs should have their own separate moveslot, with secondary attacking options slashed over Slack Off. Something like:

    - ZHeadbutt
    - Surf / Aqua Tail
    - Trick Room
    - Slack Off / Fire Blast / Ice Beam
    is what I would like to see, possibly with a more offensive EV spread.

    Or, alternatively, TR could be split up into sweeper and setup variants, though I don't know how absolutlely necessary that would be. :0 If it's staying tankish as is, then I'd suggest just Zheadbutt/Water STAB/TR/Slack Off and forgo other attacking options.
  13. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Um, has Regeneration Slowpoke been released from Dream World?
  14. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Yes, it is legal.

    And suggestions have been jotted down, and well be applied shortly.
  15. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Right, just one more minor minor nitpick, sorry...

    On the first set, I would change the slashing order of the third slot to Thunder Wave / Fire Blast / Ice Beam. Reason being for this is that Ice Beam, as Heysup stated, isn't as vital on Slowpoke due to his Boil Over / Surf beating Gligar; Fire Blast hits grassers harder anyway and is good for beating Teshii, as I stated previously. Also Thunder Wave is an excellent move on him, was very common on tanky Slowpoke last gen in my understanding, and with his bulk (and especially Regeneration now) he is one of the better users of it in LC. Paralysis is incredibly crippling for many sweepers in LC, since speed is emphasized so much.

    Again, it's a minor thing, but aside from that, if you add all the other suggestions, I'd say this is good to go.
  16. KratosAurion

    KratosAurion

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Order has been changed, dunno how much importance order will have, but Thunder Wave has been placed as the primary option. That aside, other suggestions have been added in, except for a more offensive Trick Room spread. I'd probably slash it on the setup set, rather than giving it it's very own set, since there's not much difference aside from playstyle.
  17. Crux

    Crux i want it...

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,398
  18. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,678
    I'm not hugely into the Trick Room set, I'll test it first.

    For future reference, wait until you get stamps to write something so you don't waste time.
  19. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,557
    Moving due to inactivity.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)