Resource SM LC Creative and Underrated Sets

Serene's Grace

I know you felt it too
is a Tiering Contributor
#1
approved by Quote Op adapted from Cynde in SM UU Creative Sets


What constitutes an underrated and / or creative moveset?
  • Creative Movesets would be those that are:
  1. Not commonly seen on the ladder whatsoever.
  2. It successfully pulls off a role, and is not strictly outclassed by others.
  3. It takes advantage of metagame trends.
  4. It might be able to surprise and demolish Pokemon that normally counter the usual sets, but does not become a gimmick in order to do so.
  5. It has had some success. REPLAYS ARE MANDATORY TO POST A SET HERE.
  • Underrated Movesets would be those that are:
  1. Somewhat common but still under-utilised despite being effective choices in the current metagame.
  2. Underrated sets are meant to prey on specific facets of the metagame.
  3. Rule of Thumb is that if it's not a set on analysis its fair game for being considered as an "underrated set"
What are some things that constitute a gimmick?
  1. Movesets that are highly inconsistent.
  2. Unviable pokemon.
  3. Movesets that are inferior and ineffective compared to existing movesets, or use an obscure move for the sake of hitting an even more obscure check or counter.
A shitty gimmick is not limited to the above, though. To quote Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it."
*Rules*
  1. NO SHITTY GIMMICKS. They don't add any positives to the discussion and only derail the thread. These posts may be subject to being deleted.
  2. Explain a little as to what your set does and how it accomplishes it's goal.
  3. Mention whether your set is creative,underrated or both
  4. If I like your post it means I'm adding your set. If I don't then that's too bad.
  5. Quality replays are mandatory for creative sets. Use common sense when it comes to posting these...That means no replays from 1000 rankings.
  6. If you want to dump a bunch of creative movesets, the above rules still apply.
happy posting!
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#3
So let's start this off with a really fun lure

Carvanha @ Psychium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Protect

I don't know how many people here know this, but I LOVE type spam. Specifically, Water spam and Dark spam. As such, Carvanha finds its way onto most of my teams. Generally, of course, I run its standard Life Orb set, but recently, I've made this adaptation. As I said, I run this for Water and Dark spam teams, both of which happen to struggle with bulky Fighting types like Mienfoo and Timburr. This set lures them and KOes them even from full (chance for Timburr). In addition, it OHKOes Foongus and Mareanie after Rocks, which is really neat for Water spam. Here are some calcs comparing it to the standard LO set
196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-21 (76.1 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 16-21 (66.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 22-26 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 16-21 (64 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 22-26 (88 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 196 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Mareanie: 16-21 (66.6 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 196 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Mareanie: 22-26 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Slightly more niche picks that this set still works against and also trouble Water/Dark spam:

196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 116 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Skrelp: 16-21 (69.5 - 91.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 116 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Skrelp: 22-26 (95.6 - 113%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Pancham: 16-21 (69.5 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Carvanha Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Pancham: 22-26 (95.6 - 113%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Now you might be saying 'but AD, many of these die to LO Crunch/Waterfall -> Psychic Fangs anyway, and definitely to two Psychic Fangs. why not just hit them on the switch?'. Well, young student, Carvanha tends to come in on certain Pokemon that are faster than it, like Gastly or slightly weakened non-Scarf Doduo, in order to click Protect once and then outspeed and KO them. On this Protect, its counters like the ones in the calcs tend to come in, thus preventing it from sweeping cause they threaten to kill it (well Mareanier doesn't, but oh well). As such, you'd need to predict them coming in to fire off an attack into them on the switch, thus risking your Carvanha. In addition, they can come in on a free switch after a teammate has gone down, once again stopping the sweep. But this set doesn't care about any of that, as it can simply blast through one of its counters.

Of course, it's not without its issues. The lack of Life Orb means Carvanha is fairly weak, and it is still extremely vulnerable to priority from Timburr and Croagunk. However, in general, this set allows Carvanha to clean slightly earlier or eliminate a counter for a teammate like Corphish or Pawniard.

Also, replays are mandatory (took way too long to get a good one), so here you go:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-556479508
While I did crit at the end, I didn't have to focus on weakening both Foongus and Scraggy; just weakening Scraggy and knocking Foongus was enough. Granted I failed at doing the former and lucked at the end, but it does showcase how my playstyle is a bit more free.

EDIT: Another replay is coming, but my opponent was testing for seasonal and requested I keep the replay a secret until he has played
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-556507177
Ey a replay with no real hax. Here, Carvanha comes in to revenge kill a paralyzed Pawniard weakened by Ferroseed. It gets the KO, and Mienfoo comes in to kill me. Honeslty, I should've Protected that turn because of the potential for Scarf, but my gut told me he wasn't. I KO Foo with Shattered Psyche, which opens up the path for Pawniard to eventually clean.
 
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Shrug

Sexuall Posts
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a defending Smogon Snake Draft Champion
#4
Birdspam Vulla:

upload_2017-4-13_12-45-45.png

Vullaby (F) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 80 Atk / 160 SpA / 76 SpD / 116 Spe
Hardy Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]

lure set ive been bopping people with recently. knock off and brave bird are obvious and are almost always the first moves you use. hidden power grass ethers the x4 weak rock types that love to snack on vullaby while heat wave does tons to ferro, knocked pawniards, etc - dont underestimate the importance of a ferroseed kill when the premise of your sweep involves a brave bird user, especially if it's scarfed. overall really fun and cool imo
 
#5
Ok, so I'm gonna post some crispy Z move sets that I've invented

Bloom Doom Ponyta (The Lord)

Ponyta @ Grassium Z
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 156 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flame Charge
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Morning Sun

Prior Flame Charge lets Ponyta outspeed Scarf Chou and Staryu and Bloom Doom OHKOs any water variant not name Mareanie and Skrelp. Recommended because there are so many Staryus around these days. I think this is better than Sunny Day Ponyta.

Hydro Vortex Carvanha

Carvanha @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 Atk / 40 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Protect


Waterfall Z OHKOs standard Mienfoo and Aqua Jet Z has a chance of OHKOing Timburr at +2 so it can bypass Mach Punch. It's a pretty fun set to use if you can afford to put effort in wearing down foongus before passing Swords Dance.

Edit: Aqua Jet loses priority when used with Waterium Z ;~;

Continental Crush Omanyte

Omanyte @ Rockium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 116 Atk / 40 Def / 116 SpA / 236 Spe
Mild Nature
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Rock Blast
- Ice Beam

Classic Rock Blast Omanyte but with Rockium Z. Two Rock Blast hits kill Sash Abra and Continental Crush OHKOs standard Chinchou and non-bulky variants of Staryu. Not recommended tbh because of all the Pawniards and Timburrs.

Shattered Psych Elekid

Elekid @ Psychium Z
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Cross Chop

Shattered Psych can OHKO standard Mienfoo and deal around 90% on Foongus that is holding Eviolite. Does around 70% to Chinchou iirc. Use it at your own risk.

Shattered Psych Pawniard

Pawniard @ Psychium Z
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 Atk / 40 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psycho Cut
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

Shattered Psych OHKOs standard Mienfoo and has a good chance of doing the same to Timburr as well. Use with Sticky Web for best results.





Replays:
I'm too lazy for replays but I'll try to post some if I have the opportunity
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-559717973
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-561993629
 
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#8
Plasmagby

I don't think Bloom Doom's particularly "underrated" on Ponyta; it's creative and definitely a great set, but I'd say it's really even the only one worth running these days (Sunny Day needs a turn of set-up and seems wayyy too high-variance). I'm not sure what the boundaries are with this thread but yeah.

Also, I feel like that set is a bit suboptimal; you'll find Morning Sun to be near-useless without the bulk on Ponyta. Hypnosis is something OP and I have both separately used in SPL and it put a lot of work in the games it was used in, so I'd suggest changing the slot to that. Also, you could consider Flamethrower or Flare Blitz over Fire Blast; though that's just really preference, I didn't find the slight power buff to be as useful as a reliable hit with such a (comparatively) frail 'mon.

Edit: apparently I misread the username LOL my bad
 
#9
Foongus is dumb here are some fun baits that have other uses bar foongus

Corphish @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet

Flyinium is good in general. Flying Crayfish is cool

+1 196 Atk Corphish Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 22-26 (88 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Cottonee @ Psychium Z
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 40 Def / 144 SpA / 40 SpD / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dream Eater
- Knock Off/HP Fight
- Dazzling Gleam/Giga Drain
- Encore/Memento

144 SpA Cottonee Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 16-20 (64 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
144 SpA Cottonee Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Foongus: 22-28 (88 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Cute little bait. Cool mon even though it's ass rn
 
#10
Another thread dead in LC. Time to talk about everybody's favorite mon. Mr. Alola-Grimes

This is by far my favorite mon to use in LC. It fits both of my playstyles SO well. That is Bulky Offense and Balance. Alolan-Grimer is a top tier threat and for good reason. It's typing along with STAB knock and a nuke in Gunk as well as being the best pursuit trapper in the tier is incredible for Grimes. This thing has the most potential in LC right now in my opinion. Alolan-Grimer's moveset is AMAZING just straight up. Some more fun sets.
Sets

Rock Polish. Not great, but super fun. Takes advantage of that incredible base 80 attack stat. HP grass for Kabuto/Onix or Fire Blast for Pawniard/Ferroseed or Explosion for well booming. Free KO bar Pawns
Grimer-Alola @ Berry Juice
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 76 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Knock Off
- Explosion/HP Grass/Fire Blast
- Gunk Shot


CroMer
Let me introduce you to the new face of LC. If you have played PU you know about CroMuk. This thing is that. Run this with a mon like Diglett or Evio Pull Mag to trap steels and you just win most MUs once Grounds are gone and you get a curse up.
Calcs
236 Atk Onix Earthquake vs. +1 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 12-14 (44.4 - 51.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
116 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. +1 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 6-7 (22.2 - 25.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
236+ Atk Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. +1 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
196+ Atk Mudbray Earthquake vs. +2 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Grimer-Alola: 12-14 (44.4 - 51.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Set
Grimer-Alola @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Poison Jab



Grimes on HO.
More standard with a weird spread. Allows you to outspeed Pump and Bulk Up Timb and 2hko. Memento after you've pursuited your team's threat. Then memento and set up with something and break holes. Just more of an offensive set. Incredible partner for mons like Zigzagoon, SD Corphish and Clamperl to name some examples.
Grimer-Alola @ Berry Juice
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Memento
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot


Other solid moveset options include
Substitute- Solid option. Gives you a sub on abra trying to counter you as well as Foongus and Ferroseed as a whole. Fun option.
Taunt- People sleeping on fast grimes. Stops mons like Ferro and Pump in their tracks as Will-o Pump actually has the potential to stall Grimes out 1v1. Also nice for mons like BU Timb. Also stops onix from getting rocks up on the switch in. Not great, but an option.
Disable- Eh. Scarfers are a bitch. Disable them, then pursuit them. Cool option.
Clear Smog- If you have pawn/ferro answers RUN this. It's surprisingly good. Stops NP Vull in it's tracks and another NP vull check is ALWAYS a good thing to have. Also stops Zigs trying to BD up and Timbs trying to BU on you.


Overall, Alolan-Grimer is an incredible pokemon in LC and has a lot of wacky and fun potential. Try using something other than standard, maybe you'll like it or it'll help team builds. Till next time.
 
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ZoroDark

esse quam videri
is a Tiering Contributor
#11

Diglett @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Memento
- Final Gambit

I meant to post this set some time ago, but I forgot about it until it was brought up in a discussion on Discord last night. Scarf Diglett probably isn't as consistent as sets like Groundium, Sash or LO, but it's got a couple of things going for it that definitely make it worth using. One of the main advantages is trapping opposing Diglett, which is something no other LC Pokemon can claim to do (Porygon got banned and Scarf Pawniard needs to win a coinflip). This allows amazing mons that otherwise get little usage like Mareanie to shine. Even though Diglett is already the fastest mon in LC, the extra speed comes in handy in a lot of scenario's. You trap Elekid 100% of the time now, you get to trap annoying Scarfers like Mienfoo and Bunnelby and you're able to neutralize a bunch of dangerous set up sweepers like Shellder and Pawniard courtesy of Memento or Final Gambit (which allows you to trade Diglett for mons that it couldn't otherwise trap). I originally chose Adamant for extra power, but Jolly definitely has merit by allowing you to outspeed +2 14 mons and tie with +2 15 mons like Vullaby. I swear there was some mon where Adamant was important, but the damage rolls are usually the same whether you're Adamant or Jolly.

replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-556586329 - Diglett preventing that I get swept by Scraggy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-580087409 - Diglett eliminating the only real threat to my team in that game, Bunnelby
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-556601603 - Diglett cleaning up vs Scarf Mienfoo
 
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Gummy

send typecharts
is a Pre-Contributor
#12

Mienfoo @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

This set is considerably less good than all the other viable Mienfoo sets, so I wouldn't recommend bringing it to a tournament or anything, but it's better than I expected. Nowadays your team needs a fight resist/check or it's a shit team (for good reason), and that role is filled the best by Snubbull and Spritzee. These two Fairy-types can reliably switch into Timburr and Mienfoo since nobody really runs pjab anymore. The idea for this set is since Snub/Spritz always directly switch into Mienfoo, you'll be able to get a Knock Off or HJK. Acid Downpour always OHKOes after this chip damage, which is really helpful on fightspam teams as a primary threat can be removed. I have a replay of this working but its a test game for lcpl so I'm not gonna share it, hope you'll just take my word for it n_n

Since this set only hits two things I'd normally never consider it, but since fairies are stupidly good rn (spritz and snub are the closest things we'll get to fighting counters), I find this set helpful if you have a fairy weakness or you're using fightspam.

236+ Atk Mienfoo Acid Downpour (160 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 20-24 (74 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- This turns into a guaranteed OHKO if the Spritzee switches into Knock Off. If it switches into HJK, you're doing 96% minimum, so try having rocks up.

-1 236+ Atk Mienfoo Acid Downpour (160 BP) vs. 36 HP / 196 Def Snubbull: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
- Even at -1, Mienfoo beats BJ Snubs if it switches into knock or hjk. If it's eviolite you're gonna have to knock off on the switch in.
 
#13

Gastly @ Berry Juice
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Disable
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
Really neat set. Walls croagunk with shadow ball/knock/sucker as 3rd attacking move on NP. Walls standard foo allows it to not be pursuit trapped. Not optimal but cute set.
 
#14
Gastly @ Normalium Z / Poisonium Z
Levitate
36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ground / Will-o-Wisp
- Reflect Type

Gastly gets reflect type, which means you can beat many of the pursuit / common checks to Gastly in the tier. Sandile, Stunky, Pawn, and Grimer-A either lose to this set entirely, or are crippled and you get a free switch because pursuit basically does nothing. As far as choices go, Will o Wisp and Poisonium Z I found to be generally more useful against teams that do not carry the above threats, but Hidden Power Ground and Normalium Z will let you beat Grimer-A, Pawn, and Stunky much better rather than just get a free switch out (Z-Reflect Type gives +1 Sptk).

If you already have a Z-move user, then do not give this an item (or give Mail, but not sure if that can get knocked off or not)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-623362065

No HP Ground or Normalium Z, and it still takes pawn down with it. I could have switched out very easily but I just wanted to see who would come out on top.

Edit - Another replay:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-632669586
 
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Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#15
Gastly @ Normalium Z / Poisonium Z
Levitate
36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ground / Will-o-Wisp
- Reflect Type

Gastly gets reflect type, which means you can beat many of the pursuit / common checks to Gastly in the tier. Sandile, Stunky, Pawn, and Grimer-A either lose to this set entirely, or are crippled and you get a free switch because pursuit basically does nothing. As far as choices go, Will o Wisp and Poisonium Z I found to be generally more useful against teams that do not carry the above threats, but Hidden Power Ground and Normalium Z will let you beat Grimer-A, Pawn, and Stunky much better rather than just get a free switch out (Z-Reflect Type gives +1 Sptk).

If you already have a Z-move user, then do not give this an item (or give Mail, but not sure if that can get knocked off or not)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-623362065

No HP Ground or Normalium Z, and it still takes pawn down with it. I could have switched out very easily but I just wanted to see who would come out on top.
Reflect Type is an interesting tech, but one note: there's never a reason to not run an item (other than bluffing a Z-move) in LC. This is because Knock Off on something with Eviolite does the same damage as Knock Off on something with no item, but Evio also reduces all other damage. So yea just run Evio in stead of no item
 
#16
Reflect Type is an interesting tech, but one note: there's never a reason to not run an item (other than bluffing a Z-move) in LC. This is because Knock Off on something with Eviolite does the same damage as Knock Off on something with no item, but Evio also reduces all other damage. So yea just run Evio in stead of no item
Yes and no. Yes having evio does the same dmg as no item but there are two reasons why not running an item would be benefical.

1. You don't give away a beneficial item if someone uses trick
2. Thief exists.

Trick isn't really a huge deal but number 2 is, especially when Gastly checks Zig and it commonly runs thief. You lose the match up if you are carrying berry juice or evio (1v1), which is why I say no item. I guess if you have no problems with zig then that is okay to use.

Gastly also checks Snubbull, which again carries thief sometimes as well. Granted you can do a lot with Sludge but if it gets an evio at full health the standard Berry Juice spread can potentially live a Sludge Bomb and then ko with a second thief.
 
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Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#17
Yes and no. Yes having evio does the same dmg as no item but there are two reasons why not running an item would be benefical.

1. You don't give away a beneficial item if someone uses trick
2. Thief exists.

Trick isn't really a huge deal but number 2 is, especially when Gastly checks Zig and it commonly runs thief. You lose the match up if you are carrying berry juice or evio (1v1), which is why I say no item. I guess if you have no problems with zig then that is okay to use.

Gastly also checks Snubbull, which again carries thief sometimes as well. Granted you can do a lot with Sludge but if it gets an evio at full health the standard Berry Juice spread can potentially live a Sludge Bomb and then ko with a second thief.
Trick is not at all relevant enough to consider, so I'm going to ignore that.

Thief is slightly more valid, but still not relevant enough to give up Eviolite's bulk. Beating Zigzagoon is nice, but there's never a scenario where Gastly is 1v1 against a non-set up Zigzagoon in practice, so it's not worth it. And even if it does happen, Eviolite Gastly still prevents Zigzagoon from setting up, which is the only way Zigzagoon becomes a threat, so yeah (you do have to sack it for this ig). As far as Snubbull goes, even an Eviolite variant dies to Sludge Bomb (75% chance to without rocks), so unless Gastly switched in on itemless Snubbull that went for Thief, this isn't relevant either.

This all does not at all weigh up against the significantly increased bulk Eviolite gives you. Also, Berry Juice is a potential cool option too.

Conclusion: Eviolite > itemless
 
#18
The team that I am using the set on is fairly weak to Zig, which is why beating 1v1 is important. Adamant Zig even without set up can pressure and KO some weakened physically frail pokemon such as Magby, Elekd, Doduo, etc. Again, if you have no problems with Zig you can use eviolite.

Berry Juice, however, is awful on the set. This is because Pawn Grimer-A use Knock Off as their move of choice and you do not get recovery from it AND you still take increased damage for no benefit. Basically, Z-Move is the best, followed by evio or itemless depending on how much you hate zig.
 
#19

Anorith @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Aerial Ace
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet

It is a simple set made to surprise fight types such as Timburr or Mienfoo and it can counter lead Surskit thanks to Rock Blast; Aqua jet is useful against Onix.
236 Atk Anorith Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 16-20 (66.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236 Atk Anorith Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236 Atk Anorith Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

236 Atk Anorith Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Onix: 8-12 (40 - 60%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO

after Knock Off:

236 Atk Anorith Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 24-30 (100 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

236 Atk Anorith Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Mienfoo: 24-30 (114.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

236 Atk Anorith Aqua Jet vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Onix: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236 Atk Anorith Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 36 HP / 20 Def Surskit: 36-42 (171.4 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I make this team for lc seasonal against a player who uses HO and fight spam. Enjoy
 
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#20


Bugs Bulky (Bunnelby) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 5
EVs: 228 Atk / 52 Def / 228 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Earthquake

I dunno if this is a dumb set or not, but I've sure been having fun with it. Since Bunnelby doesn't get Swords Dance, I figured I'd try the next best thing. Z-Bulk Up gives you an additional +1 to attack, giving it an effective SD in addition to a nifty +1 in defense. This thing hits stupid hard. It's easiest to set up if you can bluff a scarf and bait them into switching into a wall. Bunnelby works best if you can have a layer of spikes or rocks up. It can't touch Gastly, so you have to get rid of him first with your Pursuit user, and he really doesn't like to be burned (and therefore loves cleric support), so I don't think it outclasses Scarf, but this thing has some impressive calcs that make it a fun late game cleaner:

+2 228+ Atk Huge Power Bunnelby Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snivy: 19-24 (90.4 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 228+ Atk Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 64 HP / 228+ Def Bronzor: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 228+ Atk Huge Power Bunnelby Earthquake vs. 84 HP / 108+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 15-18 (68.1 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 228+ Atk Huge Power Bunnelby Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 36 Def Pumpkaboo-Small: 14-17 (66.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

188+ SpA Croagunk Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 228 SpD Bunnelby: 12-14 (60 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here it is in action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-630661246
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-630646301
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-630691680
 
#21
Spritzee @ Life Orb
Ability: Armoa Veil
212 Hp / 36 Def / 252 Spa OR 212 HP / 252 SPA / 12 Spe
Quiet Nature OR Modest Nature
-Trick Room
-Moonblast
-Psychic
-Filler (Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Draining Kiss, Hidden Power, Calm Mind...)

OTR Spritzee is pretty awesome now because it capitalizes on common switch ins to the regular bulky wish set. As everyone knows, Torchic is everywhere nowadays and Spritzee unfortunately lets it set up for free normally. However, Torchic is put in a VERY awkward situation if it switches in on Trick Room, as it can be KO's by a Psychic if low health OR its baton pass becomes a lot easier to stop.

Other poison types like Foongus and Gastly completely bend over to this set as well. Even without eviolite, Mienfoo is basically always set up fodder for it if you can grab the set first. From there you go to town.

The last slot is filler. Obviously Fairy-Psychic is walled by Steels, but if you want any good Hidden Power for it you will need to lower your SPA IV which means you won't hit 17 SPA which kinda blows. Because of that I usually just have a steel lure / killer and go for a filler move. None are really super useful. Thunderbolt hits waters slightly harder, Flash Cannon hits Lileep and other Spritzee for good damage but is otherwise not used. Draining Kiss can be used to recover some Life Orb Recoil and beat more mons 1v1 which is kinda cool. Calm Mind usually just wastes TR turns but can work I guess. Charge Beam can be an option too for all I know.

Note that the second spread with a Modest Nature is usually better than the first. This lets you outspeed 8 Speed walls, most notably Foongus and Lileep so you can hit them twice instead of using Trick Room first.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-636351792

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-636296416

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-636149433
 

ZoroDark

esse quam videri
is a Tiering Contributor
#23
There hasn't been nearly enough Snake Draft discussion in these parts of the forums, so let's get something started. One the coolest parts of these big tours is seeing the creative sets people come up with. I'll kick this off by saying that I've never been good at coming up with new sets myself, instead relying on other people to think of cool shit and then implementing that in my own teams (like pablo's bulky Z-Pump or HP Psychic Croagunk as first used by heysup in Snake). Tagging dundies Kingler12345 OP blarajan Arifeen tko Bushtush as I'm sure they'll have stuff to share as well!


Dwebble @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Rock Blast

I vaguely remember someone using this against me (can't remember who though), so once again I can't in good conscience claim to have come up with this set. Dwebble is an intriguing Pokemon as it commonly runs two vastly different yet effective sets. If you're clever about building with this Pokemon, you can hide whether you run a support or sweeper set. This puts a certain strain on your opponent: for example facing a Dwebble in team preview massively influences your opponent's lead choice. This set aims at combining the best qualities of the two sets and in turn becoming an amazing offensive partner to multiple Pokemon, in particular Shellder. This set excels at getting and keeping up Spikes and/or knocking the items of Fighting types. It's important to note that this set is really geared towards supporting other offensive Pokemon, so Dwebble's left with attacking coverage that isn't optimal for a sweep on its own (although this does happen every so often!). Berry Juice + Sturdy + Shell Smash is still a godly combination and makes setting up very easy as long as you can keep hazards off. I paired this set with Diglett to set up a Shellder sweep and although it didn't quite work out in my snake game like that, I still believe the offensive synergy between those three is nothing short of astounding.

other replay from ssnls: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7lc-319627
blunder in grand slam: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7lc-323326


Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 160 Def / 160 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Psychic]

Not as creative or unexpected as blara's Foul Play Foongus, but more effective imo. I think this set speaks for itself, so I'm gonna keep it short. HP Psychic is amazing to prevent Croagunk from setting up, as it actually one shots some of the fast non-Evio variants running around. That's also where this set's utility ends (outside of 2HKOing Gastly, I guess). Use on Croagunk weak teams and marvel how it genuinely turns some of those matchups into should-be 6-0 victories.
 
Last edited:
#24
There hasn't been nearly enough Snake Draft discussion in these parts of the forums, so let's get something started. One the coolest parts of these big tours is seeing the creative sets people come up with. I'll kick this off by saying that I've never been good at coming up with new sets myself, instead relying on other people to think of cool shit and then implementing that in my own teams (like pablo's bulky Z-Pump or HP Psychic Croagunk as first used by heysup in Snake). Tagging dundies Kingler12345 OP blarajan Arifeen tko Bushtush as I'm sure they'll have stuff to share as well!


Dwebble @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Rock Blast

I vaguely remember someone using this against me (can't remember who though), so once again I can't in good conscience claim to have come up with this set. Dwebble is an intriguing Pokemon as it commonly runs two vastly different yet effective sets. If you're clever about building with this Pokemon, you can hide whether you run a support or sweeper set. This puts a certain strain on your opponent: for example facing a Dwebble in team preview massively influences your opponent's lead choice. This set aims at combining the best qualities of the two sets and in turn becoming an amazing offensive partner to multiple Pokemon, in particular Shellder. This set excels at getting and keeping up Spikes and/or knocking the items of Fighting types. It's important to note that this set is really geared towards supporting other offensive Pokemon, so Dwebble's left with attacking coverage that isn't optimal for a sweep on its own (although this does happen every so often!). Berry Juice + Sturdy + Shell Smash is still a godly combination and makes setting up very easy as long as you can keep hazards off. I paired this set with Diglett to set up a Shellder sweep and although it didn't quite work out in my snake game like that, I still believe the offensive synergy between those three is nothing short of astounding.

other replay from ssnls: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7lc-319627
blunder in grand slam: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7lc-323326


Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 160 Def / 160 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Psychic]

Not as creative or unexpected as blara's Foul Play Foongus, but more effective imo. I think this set speaks for itself, so I'm gonna keep it short. HP Psychic is amazing to prevent Croagunk from setting up, as it actually one shots some of the fast non-Evio variants running around. That's also where this set's utility ends (outside of 2HKOing Gastly, I guess). Use on Croagunk weak teams and marvel how it genuinely turns some of those matchups into should-be 6-0 victories.
fuck you

since apparently hp psychic foongus is now an innovation, i guess i'll share some innovative-ish sets. by no means do i claim to be someone who came up with them but at the very least they're a little non-standard and some people might not know about them (pretty sure no one's written a post on this) sooooo...


Capablanca (Magnemite) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I used this in my game against Bushtush. Like the chess grandmaster this set is named after, this set allows its user to execute some pretty nice strategical and positional ideas (I can't guarantee that you'll have a ridiculous lifetime W/L record in your chess career though!). This set allows mag to trap what'd usually be one of its best checks (240 SpA Magnemite Hidden Power Fire vs. 84 HP / 228 SpD Ferroseed: 20-28 (90.9 - 127.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO [ferro having one more point in hp would not change this percentage at all]) and if it's evio you still do like 72% min and 2HKO with ease. It's nice for stuff that likes ferro gone (maybe a certain water-type starfish pokemon...) and does usual scarf mag things (aka annoy the shit out of you if you don't have a chinchou, diglett, or mudbray).


Spassky (Timburr) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Thunder Punch

Another World Champion, another standard set with one move changed lol (fuck you zoro you did the same thing). Used this in my game vs ggggd. This set I don't think is optimal for most teams (because FUCK foongus that piece of shit 6-0es teams dude), but eases some of Timburr's matchups drastically. The extra damage lets you come out relatively better off vs Staryu:

196+ Atk Iron Fist Timburr Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Staryu: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Iron Fist Timburr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Staryu: 9-12 (47.3 - 63.1%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO
196+ Atk Iron Fist Timburr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Staryu: 6-7 (31.5 - 36.8%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

TPunch + Mach Punch has a slightly more than 13/16 chance to kill, while you need two 1/16s for Drain Punch + Mach Punch to kill (disregarding crits). Another draw obviously is Mareanie, which really doesn't give a shit about Timburr and just TSpikes up on its ass (the BP team I had wasn't exactly a fan of those, and Mareanie is one of the few reliable checks to Torchic):

196+ Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Mareanie: 6-8 (25 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
196+ Atk Iron Fist Timburr Thunder Punch vs. 196 HP / 100 Def Mareanie: 18-22 (75 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So yeah. Usually you still want Ice Punch (because, and I can't reiterate this enough, FUCK foongus), but this is a nice little set for some teams. Forms a nice little core with Torchic. In case you're curious, the team I used against OP had Ice Punch because I felt that team was too foongus weak otherwise (fuck this stupid mon).