Resource SM LC Sets Viability Ranking Thread

Hilomilo

High-low My-low
is a Contributor to Smogon
#1
Approved by Fiend
Welcome to the SM LC Sets Viability Ranking Thread. Here, we as a community will look at the individual sets of each Pokemon currently seen on the SM LC Viability Rankings, and rank them based on their viability in the current metagame. In this thread, posting thoughts and opinions about the current ranks of Pokemon's sets is heavily encouraged. These posts will be considered and talked about by the SM LC Sets Viability Council, which consists of the following:

Hilomilo
AD Thunderboy
Corporal Levi
Drew
Nineage

Sets will be ranked in order of viability. Be sure to provide valid reasoning when posting about the movement of a set! You may also discuss whether or not a set of a Pokemon is necessary, though valid reasoning is also required. Any posts that are unproductive to discussion will be deleted!
------------

S RANK
S
Abra
Focus Sash: A+
Life Orb: A+

Mienfoo
Slow Pivot: S
Choice Scarf: S
Fast Pivot: A+
Flyinium Z: A-
Baton Pass: B+
Life Orb: B
Choice Band: B

Timburr
Bulky Attacker: S
Bulk Up: S

Staryu
Offensive Rapid Spin: S
Defensive Rapid Spin: A+
Life Orb: A+

Vullaby
Physically Offensive: S
Nasty Plot: A+
Mixed Attacker: A-
Defensive: A-
Choice Scarf: B+
Z-Mirror Move: B+

A RANK
A+
Croagunk
Nasty Plot: A+
Physically Offensive: A
Mixed Attacker: A

Gastly
Hex: A+
Life Orb: A+
Twinkle Tackle: A
Choice Scarf: A-

Diglett
Life Orb/Groundium Z: A+
Focus Sash: A
Choice Scarf: B

Grimer-Alola
Eviolite: A+
Berry Juice: A

Onix
Sturdy: A+
Weak Armor: A+

Foongus
Defensive: A+

A
Doduo
Berry Juice: A
Choice Scarf: A
Life Orb: B+

Ferroseed
Utility: A

Pawniard
Eviolite Attacker: A
Life Orb: A
Choice Scarf: A-

Shellder
Shell Smash: A
Choice Scarf: B-
Utility: B-

Snivy
Berry Juice: A
Eviolite: A
Normalium Z: A

Snubbull
Berry Juice: A
Eviolite: A-

A-
Chinchou
Bulky Pivot: A-
Choice Scarf: A-
Subzero Slammer: C+
Z-Rain Dance: C+

Magnemite
Choice Scarf: A-
Sturdy Juice: A-
Magnet Pull: B

Ponyta
Bloom Doom: A-
Offensive Utility: A-
Z-Sunny Day: A-

Scraggy
Dragon Dance: A-
Choice Scarf: B+

Torchic
Life Orb: A-
Baton Pass Support: B+

B RANK
B+
Aipom
Physical Attacker: B+
Baton Pass: C+

Carvanha
Physically Offensive: B+
Specially Offensive: B+

Corphish
Swords Dance: B+
Dragon Dance: B
Life Orb: B
Waterium Z: B-

Drilbur
Choice Scarf: B+
All-out Attacker: B+
Utility: B

Dwebble
Utility: B+
Shell Smash: B

Elekid
Life Orb: B+
Choice Scarf: B-

Mareanie
Defensive: B+

Mudbray
RestTalk: B+
All-out Attacker: B+
Choice Scarf: B

Rufflet
Choice Scarf: B+
Bulk Up: B

Slowpoke
Defensive: B+

Spritzee
Calm Mind: B+
Utility: B+

Surskit
Focus Sash: B+
Choice Scarf: B+

Zigzagoon
Belly Drum: B+

B
Archen
Offensive: B
Utility: B-

Bunnelby
Choice Scarf: B
Life Orb: B-

Frillish
Tank: B
Choice Scarf: B

Kabuto
Utility: B

Munchlax
Recycle: B
RestTalk: B-

Omanyte
Shell Smash: B
Support: B-

Pancham
Swords Dance: B
Parting Shot: B-

Pumpkabo-Super
Special Spinblocker: B
Physical/Mixed Spinblocker: B

Tirtouga
Sturdy Shell Smash: B
Solid Rock Shell Smash: B
Stealth Rock: B-

Alolan Vulpix
Aurora Veil: B

Wingull
Life Orb: B
Flyinium Z: B

Wynaut
Shadow Tag: B

B-
Cranidos
Life Orb: B-
Choice Scarf: C+

Cottonee
Offensive (Z-Memento/Eviolite): B-
Defensive: C-
Z-Nature Power: C-

Hippopotas
Defensive: B-

Houndour
Life Orb: B-
Choice Scarf: C
Eviolite: C-

Larvesta
Bulky Pivot: B-
Choice Scarf: C

Magby
Belly Drum: B-
Life Orb: C+

Skrelp
Offensive: B-

Snover
Choice Scarf: B-
Balanced Pivot: C

Spinarak
Sticky Web: B-

Taillow
Mixed Attacker: B-
Guts: B-

C RANK
C+
Amaura
Choice Scarf: C+

Bulbasaur
Z-Celebrate: C+

Buneary
Offensive Utility: C+
Z-Splash: C

Clamperl
Shell Smash: C+

Koffing
Utility: C+
RestTalk: C

Meowth
Fake Out + Feint: C+

Pikipek
Choice Scarf: C+
Life Orb: C+

Pumpkaboo-Small
Z-Trick or Treat: C+

Riolu
Bulky Swords Dance: C+
Life Orb/Roseli Berry + Swords Dance: C-

Rowlet
Baton Pass: C+
Defog: C
Swords Dance: C-

Salandit
Nasty Plot: C+
Poisonium Z: C+
Berry Juice: C

Alolan Sandshrew
Hail Sweeper: C+

Choice Scarf: C+

Tyrunt
Dragon Dance: C+
Stealth Rock: C
RestTalk: C-

Venipede
Entry Hazard Setter: C+

C
Anorith
Utility/Offensive: C

Axew
Dragon Dance: C

Darumaka
Choice Scarf: C

Deerling
Life Orb: C

Dratini
Mixed Attacker: C
Dragon Dance: C-

Goldeen
Flyinum Z: C
Life Orb: C-

Inkay
Choice Scarf: C
Anti-Webs: C

LileepDefensive: C

Mankey
Choice Scarf: C-

Natu
Offensive: C
Defensive: C-

Numel
Growth: C
Stealth Rock: C

Sandile
Choice Scarf: C
Support: C
Baton Pass Recipient: C-

Stufful
Swords Dance: C

Sandshrew
Support: C

Tentacool
Defensive: C
Offensive: C

Trapinch
Trapper: C

Trubbish
Spikes: C

C-
Budew
Entry Hazard Setter: C-

Cubchoo
Hail Sweeper: C-

CuboneOffensive: C-

DewpiderRestTalk: C-

Fletchling
Swords Dance: C-

Honedge
Pursuit: C-
Swords Dance: C-

Lickitung
Defensive: C-

Mantyke
Rain Dance: C-

Nosepass
Utility: C-

Remoraid
Choice Scarf: C-

Stunky
Offensive Utility: C-

Treecko
Swords Dance: C-

Current Discussion Slate:
Placement of Abra's sets
Placement of Croagunk's sets
Choice Scarf Scraggy up to A-
Choice Scarf Elekid down to C+
 
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#2


  • I feel as if Scarf Skrelp should also be deemed viable enough to be noteworthy as a functional set.
  • As a relatively slow mon ranging from 9-13, you will get the element of surprise just like a plethora of other scarfers
  • Modest nature (i.e 12 speed) allows you to hit things harder while reaching only 18 speed, making a speedy takedown vs key pivots such as archen, mienfoo, and speedtying with gastly much more accessible.
  • On the other hand, Jolly nature allows for 19 speed and the ability to potentially finish off those three primary 19 speeders(pony,abra,staryu) etc.. || Keep in mind, Skrelp in itself with the support from adaptability should substantiate its lack of modest nature, allowing it to still hit hard enough and potentially sweep through various mons after chip damage from knock/uturn/rocks..etc
The only conflict that doesn't make it as almighty, I would consider to be the inability to at least speed-tie, let alone outspeed Diglett and elekid which just come in for an inconvenient revenge kill.

Although, that happens to regular eviolite skrelp anyways.

Edit: Goddamnit Coconut.
 
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#3


  • I feel as if Scarf Skrelp should also be deemed viable enough to be noteworthy as a functional set.
  • As a relatively slow mon ranging from 9-13, you will get the element of surprise just like a plethora of other scarfers
  • Modest nature (i.e 12 speed) allows you to hit things harder while reaching only 18 speed, making a speedy takedown vs key pivots such as archen, mienfoo, and speedtying with gastly much more accessible.
  • On the other hand, Jolly nature allows for 19 speed and the ability to potentially finish off those three primary 19 speeders(pony,abra,staryu) etc.. || Keep in mind, Skrelp in itself with the support from adaptability should substantiate its lack of modest nature, allowing it to still hit hard enough and potentially sweep through various mons after chip damage from knock/uturn/rocks..etc
The only conflict that doesn't make it as almighty, I would consider to be the inability to at least speed-tie, let alone outspeed Diglett and elekid which just come in for an inconvenient revenge kill.

Although, that happens to regular eviolite skrelp anyways.
scarf skrelp is outsped by diglett.

Jokes aside this isn't a good set, the pokemon listed aren't very good and it's not worth listing every mon that could potentially run a scarf.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#5
Honestly think z-fairy gastly should be added as an A-
Sturdy juice mag should also not be that high. A at absolute best
Since Magnemite is currently A+ in the Viability Rankings, at least one of its sets should be ranked there as well. If/when Magnemite drops there, its SturdyJuice set here will do the same.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#7
Why Z-Trick Or Treat Pumpakoo isn't here ? I think he can have a good place on Pumpakoo's sets :)
Z-ToT is done better by Pumpkaboo-Small than Pumpkaboo-Super thanks to the former higher Speed, and Pump-S hasn't been added yet because it is C+ on the Viability Ranking and will thus be added later.
 

Hilomilo

High-low My-low
is a Contributor to Smogon
#9
Ranks B- through D have been added! Thanks to everyone for their patience, it's time to get this thread going!

Alongside the adding of Pokemon within B- and D ranks, Fairium Z Gastly was added to the rankings and given the A- rank, as it allows Gastly to reliably break through a lot of Pokemon that it is otherwise forced out by or struggles to break, such as Vullaby, Timburr, Bulky Mienfoo, and more. Choice Scarf Skrelp was not added, as the council decided that Skrelp's hatred of being locked onto any of its attacks, as well as super poor speed even with Choice Scarf (it's still outsped by Diglett and Elekid, which both easily exploit it, and ties with the likes of Abra and Staryu, who in the former's case, usually hold Focus Sash, while the latter is generally bulky enough to tank a hit and retaliate with Analytic Psychic) were grounds for right now, keeping it off the list.

With that out of the way, we'd like to go ahead an kick things off with the thread's first discussion slate. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion points and whether you agree or disagree. Questions about discussion points are fine as well, I'd be happy to elaborate. Here's the current slate:

Fast Pivot Mienfoo A -> A+
Defensive Rapid Spin Staryu A+ -> S
Z-Mirror Move Vullaby A- -> B+
Magnet Pull Magnemite B+ -> B
Choice Scarf Shellder B -> B-
Defensive Cottonee B -> B-
Shell Smash Dwebble B -> B+
Baton Pass Aipom B- -> C+
Choice Scarf Scraggy B -> B-
Swords Dance Pancham B- -> B
Life Orb Bunnelby C+ -> B-
Life Orb Riolu C+ -> C
Sturdy Aron unranked
Eviolite/Berry Juice Salandit unranked
Utility Mantyke C- -> D/unranked
Swords Dance Karrablast unranked

Nominations for Pokemon outside of the discussion slate are just fine, though discussion regarding the nominations seen above is heavily encouraged. Again, thanks for your patience, and happy posting!
 

Elec.

mind the gap
is a Pre-Contributor
#10
ill put some of my thoughts in

Shell Smash Dwebble to B+: Dwebble is a pretty good Shell Smasher, as it hits a nice Speed tier and has unresisted Rock/Ground coverage as well as Knock Off. Once Fighters and Waters are out of the way, there's not a whole lot that can stop Dwebble from breaking through. Honestly B is not cutting it for how threatening SS Dwebble can actually be, move it up.

Fast Pivot Mienfoo to A+: Mienfoo trades bulk to gain a much better Speed tier. his is a fair trade imo cause now it checks Pawniard, Dwebble and Onix even more reliably. It still does what Mienfoo does best, being a pivot Fighter, just slightly losing the ability to take hits.

Magnet Pull Magnemite to B: In LC, you got three relevant Steel-types, being Pawniard, Ferroseed, and well, Magnemite. Magnet Pull allows Magnemite to trap them but here's the problem, these three mons aren't easy to trap and KO, and the best way to get rid of each of these three is by Hidden Power, and you cant have all three at the same time. Furthermore, Pawniard outpaces Magnemite being able to get rid of it first if its low enough before Mag can attack. It's probably best to use HP Fire since the main Steel you want to trap is Ferroseed which can be hella annoying but really one steel isn't justified enough for B+, down it should go.

Choice Scarf Scraggy to B-: Choice Scarf Scraggy is a pretty good cleaner, cause it just clicks HJK and wrecks your shit up. If you have a Ghost type just click Knock Off and their Evio or Juice is gone or they dead. Moxie only bolsters Scraggys cleaning abilities and while it isn't as good as DD Scraggy, it still isn't justified enough for a drop imo.
 

Xayah

We always have a plan
is a Contributor to Smogon
#11
Well I'm on the council here, so I'll go ahead and make a post expressing my opinion on all of these.

Fast Pivot Mienfoo A -> A+ Agree
Elec. explained this one very nicely. FastFoo exchanges the ability to take some hits in order to check things like Onix and Pawniard more reliably. I was torn on this one for a while if I'm honest, since I've found myself in so many situations where I removed my FastFoo for a SlowFoo; I often value the ability to SlowTurn more then the incredibly reliable Pawn check, though this has a lot to do with the way I build. As such, I can see FastFoo's strengths, and even though I rarely use them and see it as mostly outclassed by SlowFoo, it should rise, as it can definitely pull its weight on teams.

Defensive Rapid Spin Staryu A+ -> S Disagree
For those of you who know my playstyle, this might seem weird. As a player, I generally like to use either really defensive Pokemon like Spritzee and Ferroseed, or really offensive Pokemon like Carvanha and LO Pawniard. As such, it might seem like I'd be able to appreciate defensive Staryu's ability to function as a bulky Water-type while providing my team with hazard removal. And I used to do so. However, recently I've strayed away from this set and gone to the offensive Eviolite set as my hazard removal in stead. And it's been working wonders. Thanks to the Eviolite, the offensive set still has the bulk I need, while being much more threatening and much harder to spinblock. As such, I think the defensive set is outclassed by the offensive set and thus shouldn't rise.

Z-Mirror Move Vullaby A- -> B+ Disagree
This one is a very hard one for me. On one hand, I've used ZMM Vull with great success and think it's an incredible sweeper with great power. On the other hand, it faces extremely heavy competition from NP Vull, which is much more splashable, has better coverage options (Hidden Power, Heat Wave vs Rock Smash), and the ability to hold an item that's not Flynium Z. However, ZMM has the huge advantage of being able to be threatening on the turn it sets up, while also having more powerful moves (Knock Off > Dark Pulse, BB > Air Slash). After thinking about this one a lot, I decided to take a careful look at the rankings here, and saw that Scarf Vull is B+. I 100% think ZMM > Scarf, and since NP is already A+, thus two subtiers above ZMM, the fact that NP > ZMM is made clear already, so ZMM is fine where it is.

Magnet Pull Magnemite B+ -> B Agree
Elec. already touched upon the fact that Magnemite can really only reliably trap one Steel, being Ferroseed. The main thing I want to say is something else though: Magnet Pull Magnemite is pretty much completely outclassed by Diglett. Sure, it might need opposing Mag's Sturdy broken, but so does Magnet Pull Mag. And sure, Diglett needs to play mindgames with Pawniard, but Magnet Pull Mag doesn't stand a chance against it unless it's rocking HP Fighting (Pawn outspeeds, 2HKOes with Knock Off). And sure, Diglett can't trap Ferroseed. But Diglett is a significant threat to all of these, just like Mag is. Both force their opponent to keep their Magnemite's Sturdy intact and keep their Pawniard safe. The main thing Mag has over Diglett is the ability to trap Ferroseed, but Diglett just does so much more. It traps nearly everything. Magnet Pull Magnemite is almost completely outclassed by Diglett and should drop to reflect this, as a B+ ranking is too high for something that only traps Ferroseed.

Choice Scarf Shellder B -> B- Agree
I don't think I've ever seen a Scarf Shellder do anything useful. A lack of STAB on its main moves just means it's too weak to have a significant impact on a game, no matter how good multi-hit moves are. And with it lacking a good way of hitting bulky Fighting-types and Fight spam becoming more and more popular, Scarf Shellder should drop.

Defensive Cottonee B -> B- Disagree
I'm going to start this off by saying: yes, defensive Cottonee is bad right now. It doesn't really do a great job of checking anything really, as it is easily worn down and eventually just KOed. However, I do not think it should drop down even lower than it is. Offensive Cottonee nearly completely outclasses this set, but this is already shown with their two subrank difference. Defensive Cottonee is still useful as a way of preventing certain sweepers from setting up, and can still do what the offensive set does to some extent. But the main reason I don't want this to drop: it's better than Z-Nature Power. The most important thing in VRs such as this one is relative strength, and with Z-Nature Power sitting at B-, defensive Cottonee should be B to reflect that it is better. Why I could suggest a drop for Z-Nature Power, I think it's fine like this and we should keep it in B-.

Shell Smash Dwebble B -> B+ Disagree
Fight spam is becoming more popular and it's the worst enemy of a hermit crab with no shell. SS Dwebble struggles too much to break through the very common bulky Fighting-types like Timburr and Mienfoo, as well as bulky Water-types like Staryu, which is also very common right now. The meta is just not at all in the favor of this rock dweller, and as such, it shouldn't rise.

Baton Pass Aipom B- -> C+ Agree
I have a hard time imagining what Baton Pass Aipom is even supposed to do. To me, it just seems completely outclassed by every other Baton Passer due to its frailty and near complete inability to take advantage of its own boosts. I guess there's the surprise factor, but would anyone really use this? I just don't see it happening (also fun fact: BP is not even an other option on the Aipom analysis). Its niche is Nasty Plot passing, but it doesn't do it well and I can honestly see this dropping further.

Choice Scarf Scraggy B -> B- Disagree
Scarf Scraggy is extremely strong as a late-game cleaner, as a powerful High Jump Kick is incredibly hard to switch into, especially when it's coming from a Pokemon with access to STAB Knock Off as well as Iron Head and Zen Headbutt. In addition, opponents will often fear Scraggy setting up a Dragon Dance, forcing them to make risky plays to prevent this, which might just give Scraggy the Moxie boost it needs to win. So, while it does face competition and it's somewhat outclassed by the Dragon Dance set, Scarf Scraggy manages to take advantage of the existence of that set and is still a solid cleaner, so it shouldn't drop.

Swords Dance Pancham B- -> B Disagree
My biggest problem with SD Pancham is the low Speed and lack of priority; even if Pancham sets up an SD, it often struggles to make significant use of it. However, that doesn't take away from it being a solid wallbreaker. It's coverage is very good and powerful, and it's not easy to switch into, especially when you're expecting a Parting Shot. Speaking of which, in general, SD Pancham is worse than Parting Shot, because of the incredible momentum grabbing ability of the latter, as well as the potential to give an opportunity to set up. I think SD Pancham is in a similar situation to Scarf Scraggy, where it is worse than the main set, but takes advantage of the existence of that main set to force the opponent to play differently, giving it the ability to do things. As such, I think both Scarf Scraggy and SD Pancham should be one subtier below their main sets.

Life Orb Bunnelby C+ -> B- Disagree
Man this hurts. I genuinely love LO Bunnelby and always enjoy using it, and it's one of the most powerful wallbreakers in the tier, having a similar amound of switch-ins to LO Doduo (hint: less than 5). However, it is not better than Scarf Bunnelby. LO Bunnelby struggles with its low Speed, though this is partially made up for with its access to priority in Quick Attack. I am going to also lump this on the pile with Scarf Scraggy and SD Pancham, as many opponents will expect Scarf Bunny, forcing them to play differently than if they knew it was LO from the start. Though I think the difference between LO Bunny and Scarf Bunny is smaller than the difference in the last two, it also has a harder time taking advantage of the surprise factor, since LO is revealed as soon as it attacks the first time, so it can only keep it up until it needs to kill something.

Life Orb Riolu C+ -> C Agree
The Prankster nerf killed all Riolu sets, but this one in particular. It can no longer just assume it's never taking damage because it attacks first anyway and just kills something with +2 LO HJK, since Dark-types prevent it from doing anything at all now, and with Vullaby and Scraggy being as common as they are, Riolu really struggles to click Copycat. This hurts the LO set more than the Eviolite set, since the LO set doesn't have the bulk to take a hit and then fire off a 'manual' HJK, while the Eviolite set sometimes does. As such, this set should really drop, as it is pretty much completely outclassed by Evio.

Sturdy Aron unranked Disagree
Essentially what this suggestion is, is wondering what Aron's niche is. Back in ORAS, I used Aron quite a bit, and eventually took a major liking to its Rock Head Rock Polish set, mainly for its ability to set up on one of the most influential Pokemon in the metagame: Fletchling. However, everything changed when Gen 7 attacked. Fletchling was nerfed into the ground and Fighting-types are everywhere now (granted they used to be as well, but even more so now that Fletch is dead). As such, Aron can't really set up on anything now, and even if it does, it just gets revenge killed by Timburr or Croagunk. So we can conclude that Aron's Rock Head RP set is bad now and I'd like to nominate it to C-, D, or even unranked. In the meantime, since Aron is still C on the actual Viability Rankings for some reason, we need to keep a set there as well, and Sturdy is definitely the better set imo.

Eviolite/Berry Juice Salandit unranked Disagree
I'm going to preface this by saying that I've never used Salandit, and that every Salandit I've faced just got trapped and killed by Diglett, so this is purely theorymonning. Salandit has a very interesting typing, which gives it both good offensive coverage and some nice resistances. However, its lackluster bulk means it can't take advantage of this typing very well to set up a Nasty Plot, as even resisted hits will often 2HKO. That is, if it's a holding a Life Orb. With an Eviolite or Berry Juice, it can make pretty good use of this typing and after a Nasty Plot, it's plenty powerful anyway, so it no longer needs the Life Orb. As such, I don't think it's really worse than the LO set at all, so I'll nominate it to C.

Utility Mantyke C- -> D/unranked Agree to unrank
Utility Mantyke is very lackluster. It is extremely passive due to the lack of investment, and can easily be taken out due to its lack of recovery and bad physical Defense. It just doesn't do all that much in most games to warrant being ranked. It was a mistake in initial tiering to even place it on here at all. However, Mantkye is still C- on the Viability Rankings, so we need to have a set on there as well. As such, I'd like to nominate Rain Dance Mantyke to C-. The offensive Rain Dance set functions as a late game cleaner that utilizes its ridiculously good offensive typing (seriously. two mons resist Water/Flying, and one of them is Helioptile) to become very hard to switch into. It's still not exactly good, as its Special Attack is still lackluster and Hydro Pump is unreliable while Air Slash is weak, but it performs its role much better than any other Mantyke set.

Swords Dance Karrablast unranked Agree
This is just bad. Karrablast is way too slow to make use of an SD boost, Bug is a terrible typing, and it's coverage isn't exactly good either. Scarf Karrablast at least has a niche as a revenge killer and cleaner. SD Karrablast just does nothing.

For the people who are going to respond to this, you don't have to do all of them like I did. Feel free to cherry pick my opinions if you really want to disagree with me, and go right ahead and pick the mons you want to talk about.
 
#12
should Z-Bloom Doom be added to Ponyta? it's probably the set I see most often and can be very threatening to teams, even those carrying diglett, considering it often runs flame charge. It serves a different function from the more defensive sets, but I think it could perhaps go somewhere in B+ - A?
 
#13
Input time from an Irrelevant user who likes Magby


Fast pivot Foo- Agree Just good

Defensive Spin Star- Disagree Torn. SO passive but scald burns happen making the passiveness sometimes not even matter.

ZMM Vull-
Agree Torn again. Really fun, Skystrike alone is a nuke, however there is NO reason to ever run this over NP vulla, so moving it down seems fair.

Mag pull Mag-
Agree What others said being it reliably traps 1 viable mon. If you're running mag, just run scarf.

Scarf Shellder-
Agree Lol this is a thing?

Defensive Cottonee-
Agree This thing is ass. Top 5 mon hard counters it. Every other viable grass mon in the tier 1v1s this thing.

SS Dwebble-
Disagree Honestly, this mon is so bad. Needs too much support for not a great reward.

BP Aipom-
Agree This thing is fun, however NP Pass doesn't have many good recipients, bulky wise. By this I mean, you pass it first, as aipom is quite fast, the mons that spA work for well are.

A) Fast and have to take one hit and generally get revenged by prio. Or
B) Are slower bulkier mons and are either scared out by offensive checks or just KOed.
Aipom also doesn't really have the bulk even being slow pass, I have tried yes, to be able to pass more than once which sucks. There are better NP pass options anyways like Rowlet and Togepi.
Honestly an agility pass sounds super good though or a double dance to like bulky Elgyem or some bulky psychic type with coverage sounds cool.

Scarf Scrag-
Agree Garbage. Takes away its only niche in the tier (Bulky DD).

SD Pancham- Disagree Just run parting shot, so many better set up sweepers, Timb for example. It's not bad, but there is so little reason to put it on a team unless you are building around it.

LO Bunny- Disagree I love Bunny, but just run scarf or evio agility. LO is WAY too easily revenged.

LO Riolu-
Agree Prankster nerf sucks. Free Fletch. Gets revenged too easily.

Juice Aron-
Agree Honestly, thing is ass. However NP has a niche, this has no niche over other sturdy juice users. Geodude and Bonsly have sucker, Alola Geo+Nosepass have volt to pivot as well as magic coat for Nosepass. Onix is fast with taunt. Aron has dual stab, but offensive steel is bad and forces you into rock slide or stone edge which is sub par. Rock head is actually an ok set still unlike this one.

Non LO Salandit-
Disagree Salandit is super slept on. Fire poison is super solid coverage, if you don't want it trapped run sub or flame charge. With a flame charge up this thing is actually kind of terrifying given let's say hp grass, sludge wave, fire blast. Even with evio, Sludge wave is 2hkoing most of the meta. Salandit also gets knock so instantly viable.

Utility Mantyke- Agree Bad pokemon overall. Just run rain dance.

SD Karra- Agree Bad set for a super fun mon.
 

Hilomilo

High-low My-low
is a Contributor to Smogon
#14
Thanks to everyone for their input! The council's talked, and have made the following changes:
Fast Pivot Mienfoo rose to A+ - While not as consistent as its slower set, Mienfoo's Fast Pivot set excels in the current metagame as a reliable check to Pawniard, Omanyte, Tirtouga, and more and also has the really nice benefit of fast chip damage and fast pivoting. It was, however, only risen to A+ due to its worse splashability than the Slow Pivot and Choice Scarf sets and inability to check as many threats, despite being fantastic.
Z-Mirror Move Vullaby dropped to B+ - The consensus behind this drop is clear, and is that Nasty Plot is too similar of a set yet more consistent to justify using Z-Mirror Move, which at times is quite situational, more often than not.
Magnet Pull Magnemite dropped to B - Magnet Pull is by no means bad, but doesn't trap anything that most teams need gone, and even struggles against things like Choice Scarf Pawniard and opposing SturdyJuice Magnemites. While it's by no means bad, trapping just Ferroseed isn't enough of a niche to justify placement in B+ anymore.
Choice Scarf Shellder dropped to B- - offers little over the Shell Smash set due to its worse power, and is generally only worth using due to the surprise factor which allows for some interesting revenge kills (is also by no means splashable in contrast to Shell Smash, which is another good reason to drop)
Defensive Cottonee dropped to B- - In such a fast paced metagame, there's little reason to justify using defensive Cottonee variants over offensive sets, which are appreciated for their much better Speed. A defensive Pokemon with a quad weakness to Poison is also rather unappealing, given the prevalence of Gastly and Alolan Grimer.
Baton Pass Aipom dropped to C+ - this is an extremely niche set with little merits over Torchic, and could honestly drop further in the future.
Life Orb Riolu dropped to C - Riolu struggles to set up reliably with an Eviolite, so holding a Life Orb is bound to even further compromise its tanking capabilities, which is something that in such an offensive metagame, is more or less required to get a Swords Dance boost.
Utility Mantyke was unranked - No reason to use this over much better sets in Rain Dance and RestTalk.
Swords Dance Karrablast was unranked - Karrablast is a threat once set up, but doesn't have the bulk or typing to get its boosts, and sits in a poor Speed tier that makes it hilariously easy to revenge kill or just KO before it even nets any KOs itself.

Changes that reflect the most recent Viability Ranking change were also made, which is why you'll now be seeing sets like Swords Dance Treecko in C and Eviolite Alolan Grimer in A+. Feel free to nominate sets to rise to the current ranking of a newly risen Pokemon!

And now, with all of our changes out of the way, it's time to get to this time's discussion slate. Feel free to discuss what within the slate you agree and disagree with, and make sure that if you find a set that isn't on the slate to be out of place in its current ranking that you nominate a rise or drop! Contribution is always appreciated! Anyways, without further ado, here's this week's discussion slate:
SturdyJuice Magnemite down to A-
Choice Scarf Pawniard down to A-
Life Orb Corphish down to B
Z-Nature Power Cottonee down to C+
Choice Scarf Elekid down to C+ (it's been risen to B- for now but we'd like some discussion on this one)
Physical/Mixed Spinblocker Pumpkaboo down to B
Choice Scarf Cranidos up to B
Choice Scarf Larvesta down to C
Balanced Pivot Snover up to B-
RestTalk Tyrunt down to D/Unranked
Eviolite Bronzor down to D/Unranked
RestTalk Mantyke down to D

Thanks for reading and contributing, and happy posting!
 
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Hilomilo

High-low My-low
is a Contributor to Smogon
#15
The OP has been updated to reflect the most recent Viability Ranking update. Here's some of what changed

Abra rose to S, both sets rose to A+
The council spoke about where exactly to place both of Abra's sets, and the ultimate agreement was that Abra's versatility between both sets was grounds for its rise to S. Both Focus Sash and Life Orb as individual sets have enough adequate counterplay, but that fact that together they make Abra extremely unpredictable and hard to deal with is why their combined A+ rankings turn Abra into an S ranked Pokemon.

Croagunk rose to A+, Nasty Plot rose to A+, Physically Offensive and Mixed Attacker rose to A
Nasty Plot is currently Croagunk's most defining set, which justifies its rise to the rank it now shares with Croagunk. As for the other two sets, the council was in a bit of a dispute as to which was better than the other. For now, I've decided to rank them together until an agreement is made, so feel free to post your thoughts regarding the viability of these two sets!

Onix rose to A+, both Sturdy and Weak Armor rose with it
Onix's rise in the Viability Rankings was mainly on the basis of the fact that both of its sets perform at extremely high levels of consistency and compete with one another for which is better, which makes rising both to the same as Onix justified for now.

Scraggy rose to A-, Dragon Dance rose to A- with it while Choice Scarf rose to B+
Scraggy's rise was based on the strength of its Dragon Dance, which makes rising it only fair. As for rising Choice Scarf, we felt that B really understates Scraggy's revenge killing capabilities with a Choice Scarf, and that as a result a rise to B+ was more accurate.

Kabuto rose to B+, as did its only set
It's only logical to rise Kabuto's only set if it's what defines its role in the metagame. Try Z Rain Dance though

Surskit rose to B+, and had Choice Scarf added as a set at B+ with Focus Sash rising as well.
The strength of either of Surskit's sets could be used to justify its rise to B+ over on the viability ranking thread, which ultimately only made sense for why both sets should share a rank. As for adding Choice Scarf, it's been receiving a ton of usage lately as a really consistent webs setter and is currently among the tier's best options as far as lead sets go.

Sandshrew and its only set dropped to C+
Simple logic, the only set it's on the ranking thread for should be ranked alongside it, which is currently C+.

As for the current discussion slate, it remains the same as last time, so make sure to actually discuss the slate this time so that I don't have to double post again, everyone! ;) There are, however, a few other things that I'd like to see some discussion on in the current thread, so here they are:

Where Croagunk's Physically Offensive and Mixed Attacker sets should be ranked
Thoughts on where Abra's sets are placed
Choice Scarf Scraggy up to A-, alongside its Dragon Dance set

Happy posting!
 
#17
Life orb abra should be S. It has 1 100% counter being munchlax. Grimer-Alola is 2hkoed by LO hp ground and you fear sacking it with sash counter and ferroseed dies to hp fire.

Also mixed Vull should be a set and put it at A
 
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Likes: PD

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#18
Life orb abra should be S. It has 1 100% counter being munchlax. Grimer-Alola is 2hkoed by LO hp ground and you fear sacking it with sash counter and ferroseed dies to hp fire.

Groundium Diglett should also be S. The ability to trap and KO a mon at 60-80% that doesn't resist and KO it is nuts

Also mixed Vull should be a set and put it at A
You can discuss Abra and Vullaby, but argument on Diglett moving to S should be moved to the Viability Rankings, as we base our ranks off of that (mostly)