Metagame SM Monotype Metagame Discussion

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Ice also has Specs Lapras as well as LO Mamoswine(which is sometimes ran on Pilo builds). As for Rock, it also has LO Nihilego with Thunderbolt, and Choice Band Tyranitar comfortably 2HKOs with Earthquake, and even without it will 2HKO with Banded Stone Edge after Stealth Rock.
 
Hi all, aspiring grass specialist here, recently I've been having quite a difficult time finding a reliable grass counter to Volcarona. More often than enough, the Satan moth quiver dances a path of destruction through my poor unsuspecting seedlings. So far, I'm aware that rock tomb breloom and cradily can somewhat deal with it in very niche situations, having no stealth rocks up for focus sash breloom and praying the moth doesn't have bug buzz for cradily. However, most of the time due to grass's lack of reliable defoggers and decent speed tier choice scarf users, seeing a volcarona especially after rocks from torkoal or forretress is simply an unwinnable game. Currently, I found that probably the most reliable way to stop the devil's insect is encore/tailwind whimiscott. However, that usually just delays the inevitable as the opposing player simply just pivots to a defensive option and the moth comes back in all it's special attacking glory.

So grass type experts, what are your methods of dealing with Butterfree's pyromaniac cousin?
 
Tmw a mon with base 53 spA, and abysmal speed tier is considered broken...If theres anything broken, it's not toxapex, it's t spikes in general. Which also has counterplay vs it as well, but once they're up, gg been lit O:!
 
Hey, so I entered a casual monotype tournament and picked grass. The problem is that another guy got to reserve a mega before I could, and he picked venu for poison, so I picked sceptile since my other option was abomasnow. Any advice on building a mono grass team without mega venu? Should also mention that kartana isn't banned in that tournament, if that helps. Thanks in advance.
 
Tmw a mon with base 53 spA, and abysmal speed tier is considered broken...If theres anything broken, it's not toxapex, it's t spikes in general. Which also has counterplay vs it as well, but once they're up, gg been lit O:!
That's a pretty terrible argument. You can't just look at a Pokemon and say it's not broken just due to some of its stats being bad. By that same logic Deoxys-A is not broken due to its piss poor 50/20/20 bulk. Not saying Toxapex actually is broken, but don't use arguments like that in the future.
 
Hi all, aspiring grass specialist here, recently I've been having quite a difficult time finding a reliable grass counter to Volcarona. More often than enough, the Satan moth quiver dances a path of destruction through my poor unsuspecting seedlings. So far, I'm aware that rock tomb breloom and cradily can somewhat deal with it in very niche situations, having no stealth rocks up for focus sash breloom and praying the moth doesn't have bug buzz for cradily. However, most of the time due to grass's lack of reliable defoggers and decent speed tier choice scarf users, seeing a volcarona especially after rocks from torkoal or forretress is simply an unwinnable game. Currently, I found that probably the most reliable way to stop the devil's insect is encore/tailwind whimiscott. However, that usually just delays the inevitable as the opposing player simply just pivots to a defensive option and the moth comes back in all it's special attacking glory.

So grass type experts, what are your methods of dealing with Butterfree's pyromaniac cousin?
As you've said in your post, the most reliable ways Grass teams have to deal with Volcarona are sash-Breloom and Cradily. I don't think there's another way to deal with it when using Grass, since i think Encore Whimsicott is inconsistent to neutralize a huge threat like Volcarona, especially because it tends to run a Z-move which is not affected by Encore.

Grass teams don't really need a dedicated mon to get rid of opposing hazards because all the options aren't worthy to earn a slot in the team; defoggers like Decidueye don't fit well because Grass teams rely on hazard stack (Stealth Rock+Spikes) to wear down opposing teams, so there's no point on getting read of the hazards you've set in the opposing field. Decidueye's typing isn't very good and it doesn't help grass with any of its weaknesses. Dhelmise is the best rapid spinner Grass can offer, but it hasn't good bulk and lacks any form of recovery outside of rest. In conclusion, to include Dhelmise in your team you'd have to get rid of a vital member of either the defensive or offensive core, which a lower tier type like Grass can't afford to. I suggest you to read this article written by torkool, which analyzes the lesser used types http://www.smogon.com/articles/lesser-used-monotypes.

Volcarona is one of the biggest threats for Grass teams, even more this gen with the introduction of Z-moves (+1 Inferno Overdrive has a chance to OHKO Cradily after Stealth Rock; +1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 319-376 (85 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), and the best way to deal with it is to preserve Breloom's sash intact to be able to revenge kill it with Rock Tomb. You need to pressure the opposing Bug team with hazards, mainly Stealth Rock, to ensure your opponent is more worried about rapid spinning rocks than setting his/her own rocks.
 
Hi all, aspiring grass specialist here, recently I've been having quite a difficult time finding a reliable grass counter to Volcarona. More often than enough, the Satan moth quiver dances a path of destruction through my poor unsuspecting seedlings. So far, I'm aware that rock tomb breloom and cradily can somewhat deal with it in very niche situations, having no stealth rocks up for focus sash breloom and praying the moth doesn't have bug buzz for cradily. However, most of the time due to grass's lack of reliable defoggers and decent speed tier choice scarf users, seeing a volcarona especially after rocks from torkoal or forretress is simply an unwinnable game. Currently, I found that probably the most reliable way to stop the devil's insect is encore/tailwind whimiscott. However, that usually just delays the inevitable as the opposing player simply just pivots to a defensive option and the moth comes back in all it's special attacking glory.

So grass type experts, what are your methods of dealing with Butterfree's pyromaniac cousin?
GoldenTorkoal has explained most of my thoughts on his post but I will share my insights on that matter as well:

Volcarona is a huge threat to Grass teams, which means this matchup needs to be played around carefully. Cradily should be your most consistent response in many cases due to its ability to somewhat take Fire hits (except the Inferno Overdrive at +1) and OHKO it back with Rock Slide. That being said, Cradily should be kept healthy for the most part of the game.

However there is something I disagree when he mentions:

I don't think there's another way to deal with it when using Grass, since i think Encore Whimsicott is inconsistent to neutralize a huge threat like Volcarona, especially because it tends to run a Z-move which is not affected by Encore.
Although Whimsicott is never able to win a 1v1 against Volcarona, Encore locks its target on its last used move. This means that, even if Volcarona chooses to use Inferno Overdrive, two things will happen:

1- It will always force a switch because it will be locked in quiver dance so you can easily revenge kill with Breloom, Tapu Bulu or Cradily. Forcing switches on huge threats is always great.

2- Your opponent will no longer have the Firium-Z avaliable if it uses on the Encore turn, providing more opportunities for Cradily to check it.

This scenario, despite not always guarateeing the win, will provide a good amount of time / opportunity for you to play properly and not get swept if you correctly manage your responses. So even if Whimsicott dies, it can provide a reasonable amount of ''pressure'' by forcing a switch or preventing it from setting up so your teammates can check it and KO if it stays in.

If your opponent is using Armaldo (which in the case he should) it is not as hard to remove as Forrretress because Breloom can sleep induce and proceed to threaten it with Rock Tomb so you can also eventually bring up Stealth Rocks up depending on what Pokemon they have on the field. Of course you should not always expect to win the matchup because it is one of the hardest rn for Grass but hopefully I was able to clarify the options you have in that matchup and what is possible to do in a realistic battle scenario.

edit: gonna include response to DragonAscent's question here too so:
Hey, so I entered a casual monotype tournament and picked grass. The problem is that another guy got to reserve a mega before I could, and he picked venu for poison, so I picked sceptile since my other option was abomasnow. Any advice on building a mono grass team without mega venu? Should also mention that kartana isn't banned in that tournament, if that helps. Thanks in advance.
Sadly, Grass teams are not viable without the presence of Mega-Venusaur due to its amazing bulk and the Fire / Ice neutrality it provides to the type through Thick Fat, but if you really want to build a team around a secondary mega option, then definitely Mega-Sceptile is more worth of a shot than Abomasnow. (but keep in mind you shouldn't be using either in a standard environment). Your team would probably be focused on a more offensive approach due to how handicapped you already are at your defenses (maybe include a cradily + ferrothorn for hazard support).
(also make sure to use kartana since your friends dont mind and good luck lol)
 
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Eien

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After many years, Shadow Tag is finally banned from Monotype. Feel free to discuss the suspect and/or the result here. (You may view the results here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-monotype-suspect-shadow-tag.3618857/page-3#post-7559213)

I for one am interested to see how teams outside of Psychic change, if at all, now that Gothitelle isn't a threat. For example, Life Orb Dark Pulse Greninja might be more popular now that Colbur Berry can't just completely wall it out. Normal also can now be much less afraid of Psychic, although of course Choice Band Victini and Mega Gallade remain huge threats. Moving into USUM in the coming weeks, I'm looking forward to seeing how Monotype changes now that such a powerful, long-lasting influence is gone.

Tagging The Immortal to ban it from the Monotype ladder please. Thank you!
 
I'm unsure if anyone's heard about the new leaks, but some of these are really interesting. Even with USUM a week and a half away from release, these new leaks have piqued my interest. Nothing is truly confirmed yet, but if these are actually true, then the meta may have another unstable power shift, similar to the release of SM.

Notable Mentions:
-Everything gets Defog; Landorus/Thundurus/Tornadus forms, Gliscor, Blaziken, Dragonite (w/ Multiscale), even Klefki, and many more.
-Toxapex and Tapu Fini get Knock Off.
-There is a supposed evolution for the UB Absorption named "Naganadel"; Poison/Dragon typing with 73/73/73/127/73/121 stats and Beast Boost, making it naturally faster than Latios and one speed point under Greninja. (THIS IS A MON TO WATCH FOR)
-Tapu Koko gets Iron Head and Thunder Punch; better moves to abuse its physical attack safely while also having the ability to check other Fairies (Z-Mirror Move meta?)
-Araquanid gets Magic Coat (New method of Bug/Water hazard control?)
-Kommo-o gets Stealth Rock, Superpower, Drain Punch, All Elemental Punches, Iron Head, and so much other much needed moves.
-Dugtrio (Regular) gets Iron Head.
-Alolan-Muk gets all Elemental Punches.
-Alolan-Golem gets Fire Punch (beats and traps certain steels a.k.a Ferrothorn)

...These are only a few of the potentially good (or bad) things to come for the meta.

New Pokemon Stat Leaks: https://pastebin.com/iXRpFcj6

Move Tutor List: https://pastebin.com/Uxme1NkC

Entire Dex Move Tutor List: https://pastebin.com/raw/j8CnVgCc
 

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Congrats Monotype community! :)
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Haven't popped my head here in a while, but saw where new games were coming out and I wanted to have a look at the new 'mons.

I know it is old news, but I just found out...

Congrats on being an official metagame! Literally made my Sunday to finally see that happen. :)

Eien, Acast, or Paleo please delete this if I'm breaking any of the rules for posting. Wasn't quite sure where to post, but wanted to say something.
 
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