Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[Tramuntana]

People, quick question:
Where did Empoleon go? It should be C- at the very least.
It has an OU analysis, I have tested it and it is quite useful, especially it is a great partner for Clefable and (Insert dragon type pokemon here) for a Steel-Fairy-Dragon core. The Shuca Berry variant has also saved me more times I can count by luring a Zygarde or Landorus to spam their respective ground attacks and poisoning or KOing them. It also offers an extra layer of security if you want to try and predict a Stealth Rock from Landorus.

By the way, someone removed the entire D rank. Why?

 

[earl]

People, quick question:
Where did Empoleon go? It should be C- at the very least.
It has an OU analysis, I have tested it and it is quite useful, especially it is a great partner for Clefable and (Insert dragon type pokemon here) for a Steel-Fairy-Dragon core. The Shuca Berry variant has also saved me more times I can count by luring a Zygarde or Landorus to spam their respective ground attacks and poisoning or KOing them. It also offers an extra layer of security if you want to try and predict a Stealth Rock from Landorus.

By the way, someone removed the entire D rank. Why?

People tended to fixate on D-Rank 'mons which really wasn't what was wanted out of this thread. Also all of the D-rank Pokémon were ass

 

[FatBagel]

First time nominator, I'd like to nominate Diggersby to C. I know what you're thinking - he's outclassed as a wallbreaker ground-type by Zygarde, and he's outclassed for versatility and scarf variants by Landorus - and yes, to some extent, you're right. However, Diggersby takes on Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, defensive Lando-T, Mega-Slowbro, Ferrothorn much better and actually becomes a terrific breaker for Zygarde/Lando to sweep later on. This is the set I run and a few relevant calcs:

Diggersby @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Return
- Swords Dance
- Agility

+1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 402-474 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 429-505 (106.4 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 298-352 (106 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Obviously this proves nothing on it's own, but if you can get it in on Magearna, Heatran, Ttar, Chansey etc etc. Digger can easily set an SD up and kill the ground resist. Agility allows it to sweep later on or if you predict something faster to come in, or you want to go for game, Agility lets you hit 510 speed to pick off faster threats.

Yes, double dance Flyinium Lando is probably better, but Digger can continue to spam Return after using his Z-Move, which is incredibly useful if you want to come in later to sweep with Agility, or to pick off weakened flying threats, or if the opponent predicts your Z-Move and you need a powerful STAB. He also melts Hp Ice Zapdos, and can bluff Quick Attack if you're an absolute madman.

I'll link a few replays to show you I'm not talking complete shit, but I don't have too many as I was low ladder for a while and won't waste your time showing you him beating full eeveelution teams. Alexidiaz is a good player, the other guy... I'm not so sure. But don't let my rank alone make Digger look bad, he was a huge part of getting me into the 1600+ region on the ladder. Try him out.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-593487705 Digger cleans at +2 speed
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-589961020 Digger breaks through Tangrowth without an SD and breaks massive holes.

I've clearly oversold him - I nommed him to a C rank for a reason. Mediocre speed, little bulk and poor defensive typing, as well as being walled completely by Skarmory etc (however on Celesteela: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 329-387 (82.6 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers) recovery are problems. He does need a Z-Move too, which is a problem, but he makes a great partner for Zygarde and Koko - he punches holes in the things that stop them and can usually come in on the things Koko attracts. Fast scarfs outspeed him even at +2. He's generally outclassed by Lando, but I think he has enough of a niche (and maybe surprise factor) to put him in the lower tier of the rankings.

Feel free to disagree - I imagine as a relatively lower tier player this is a little bit above my station but I hope I made some genuine points :)

 

[Niadev]

First time nominator, I'd like to nominate Diggersby to C. I know what you're thinking - he's outclassed as a wallbreaker ground-type by Zygarde, and he's outclassed for versatility and scarf variants by Landorus - and yes, to some extent, you're right. However, Diggersby takes on Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, defensive Lando-T, Mega-Slowbro, Ferrothorn much better and actually becomes a terrific breaker for Zygarde/Lando to sweep later on. This is the set I run and a few relevant calcs:

Diggersby @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Return
- Swords Dance
- Agility

+1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 402-474 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 429-505 (106.4 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 298-352 (106 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Obviously this proves nothing on it's own, but if you can get it in on Magearna, Heatran, Ttar, Chansey etc etc. Digger can easily set an SD up and kill the ground resist. Agility allows it to sweep later on or if you predict something faster to come in, or you want to go for game, Agility lets you hit 510 speed to pick off faster threats.

Yes, double dance Flyinium Lando is probably better, but Digger can continue to spam Return after using his Z-Move, which is incredibly useful if you want to come in later to sweep with Agility, or to pick off weakened flying threats, or if the opponent predicts your Z-Move and you need a powerful STAB. He also melts Hp Ice Zapdos, and can bluff Quick Attack if you're an absolute madman.

I'll link a few replays to show you I'm not talking complete shit, but I don't have too many as I was low ladder for a while and won't waste your time showing you him beating full eeveelution teams. Alexidiaz is a good player, the other guy... I'm not so sure. But don't let my rank alone make Digger look bad, he was a huge part of getting me into the 1600+ region on the ladder. Try him out.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-593487705 Digger cleans at +2 speed
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-589961020 Digger breaks through Tangrowth without an SD and breaks massive holes.

I've clearly oversold him - I nommed him to a C rank for a reason. Mediocre speed, little bulk and poor defensive typing, as well as being walled completely by Skarmory etc (however on Celesteela: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Breakneck Blitz (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 329-387 (82.6 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers) recovery are problems. He does need a Z-Move too, which is a problem, but he makes a great partner for Zygarde and Koko - he punches holes in the things that stop them and can usually come in on the things Koko attracts. Fast scarfs outspeed him even at +2. He's generally outclassed by Lando, but I think he has enough of a niche (and maybe surprise factor) to put him in the lower tier of the rankings.

Feel free to disagree - I imagine as a relatively lower tier player this is a little bit above my station but I hope I made some genuine points :)

In your first replay, SD Lando-T would have been able to do basically the exact same thing, and Double Dance would have done a similar thing in replay 2 (unboosted Z-Stone Edge from Lando-T KOd Tang after sandstorm damage at that point in the match while living the potential HP Ice). Flynium Lando also broke past Tangrowth, though it wouldn't have won the game like Dual Dance Lando would have. SD Rockium Lando/Smack Down Flynium Lando can also actually break past Skarm and Celesteela without sacrificing a moveslot like Diggersby. I just fail to see a reason to use Diggersby over Offensive Lando, who has far more defensive utility, is faster, and Diggersby's extra power doesn't net any KOs that Lando-T can't already. Diggersby was actually C- some time ago iirc but it was dropped from the VR. I can only see it being useful if you're using some over Lando set and you still need an SD Ground that isn't Garchomp (who I'd also honestly use over Diggersby) for whatever reason. I don't see it being ranked again any time soon.

 

[Gary]

RANKING UPDATE

Rises

A ---> A+

A- ---> A

B+ ---> A-

B ---> B+

B- ---> B

B- ---> B

Drops

B+ ---> B

B ---> B-

• Tapu Bulu has seen a huge spike in usage in the first round of World Cup, and for good reason. While it's usually seen running some kind of SD set, it's able to realistically run three different variants; Grassium, Rockium, and the lesser seen but still effective Fightinium. This makes Bulu an extremely threatening wallbreaker that is nearly impossible to properly prep for outside of extreme hard counters such as Mega Venusaur. Grassium and Rockium are able to blast trough some of its normal "checks" such as Zapdos, Celesteela, and Tangrowth, while hitting Volcarona and Mega Pinsir on the switch (with Stone Edge). Grassium is also just an insanely strong nuke that is capable of insane feats such as straight OHKOing resists on the switch, such as Latios. There are also some other usable sets such as Sub SD, SD Taunt, and bulky sets with Leech Seed. On top of its wallbreaking power, its terrain also provides immense support for its teammates as a passive healing source, as well as potential set up opportunities. Bulu is also moderately bulky on the physical side, so it's a able to provide a switch into some threats such as CB Zygarde, Garchomp, and defensive Lando-T.
• Dugtrio has always been a staple on stall, and with the rise in trappable Steels notably Heatran and Magearna, Dugtrio has only gotten more useful. It also sees use on more offensive oriented teams, commonly being paired with the likes of Zard-Y and sometimes Volcarona. The rise in T-tar also only benefits Dugtrio as well, giving it more opportunities to perform. Because of this, we felt like its impact on stall and the overall metagame currently favoring it, warrants it a rise back into A rank.
• For the first time, the rain setter is being moved up above the swimmers. Pelipper is different from Politoed because not only is it very crucial for the success of rain the playstyle, but it is also a legitimate threat with very little limited defensive counterplay outside of very fat special walls (basically Chansey). Specs Pelipper on its own is able to tear massive holes into many defensive cores, with Water/Flying being practically unwallable outside of Rotom-W (which takes a ton of damage from Specs Hydro). It's able to pave the way for a teammate such as Kingdra or support to easily clean up afterwards. And of course, Pelipper is not only useful for its ability to support swimmers, but also other Pokemon in general. Tornadus-T is able to fire off accurate Hurricanes, Tapu Koko can abuse Thunder, Ash Greninja's Hydro is practically unwallable and Shuriken becomes an insanely powerful priority move, and Ferrothorn's Fire-type weakness is literally watered down, which significantly boosts its walling capabilities. We felt like because of this, Pelipper is an entire subrank above its swimmers at the current moment, for the immense support it provides as well as threat level.
• Kingdra is easily the sole reason why rain teams are so threatening, outside of Pelipper of course. It's realistically able to function as an early game breaker and a late-game cleaner, which is huge. While Swampert is definitely a huge asset to rain, Kingdra is definitely not any less of a threat, and no true rain team is as successful without it.
• Alomomola is commonly seen on double Defog stall as an incredibly annoying Wish passer that is able to blanket check a large portion of the metagame thanks to its bulk and pure Water-typing. It's also sometimes seen on bulkier builds that aren't entirely stall oriented. Because of this, we felt like B- was undermining its overall performance too much.
• Kartana is often seen as a low ladder meme, but when used correctly, it can be quite effective. Its Scarf set, while nothing amazing, can be very problematic late-game for many offensive oriented teams because of its insanely high Attack stat, allowing it to snowball. Its Speed tier is very significant for a Scarfer, putting it above every Scarfer bar Latios. It's also able to revenge kill Mega Swampert in the rain, as well as even Volcarona with just a little bit of prior damage (Aerial Ace, although it should never be your primary answer to it).
• Serp dropped because of the massive influx in Heatran, particularly Sub variants, which heavily limits its chances of coming in for free and getting off a Leech Seed. It's also hard walled by many commonly used Pokemon such as AV Magearna, Celesteela, and Volcarona, so it relies heavily on Leech Seed to beat these. Mega Charizard X dropped because its opportunity cost as a breaker/cleaner is just way too high right now, and the amount of support it provides to keep it going is just not worth its overall subpar performance. The EQ sets are incredibly easy to wear down, and the Roost sets are walled by dozens of Pokemon. While certain trends may seem to be favoring Zard-X, it's still very difficult to make a case for it being on teams these days over the plethora of better breaker in the tier at the moment, and as a sweeper, so it feels odd to keep it higher than Mega Shark, which is surprisingly effective without needing nearly as much support to keep it going.

Discussion Point(s)

A- ---> A

 

[FatBagel]

In your first replay, SD Lando-T would have been able to do basically the exact same thing, and Double Dance would have done a similar thing in replay 2 (unboosted Z-Stone Edge from Lando-T KOd Tang after sandstorm damage at that point in the match while living the potential HP Ice). Flynium Lando also broke past Tangrowth, though it wouldn't have won the game like Dual Dance Lando would have. SD Rockium Lando/Smack Down Flynium Lando can also actually break past Skarm and Celesteela without sacrificing a moveslot like Diggersby. I just fail to see a reason to use Diggersby over Offensive Lando, who has far more defensive utility, is faster, and Diggersby's extra power doesn't net any KOs that Lando-T can't already. Diggersby was actually C- some time ago iirc but it was dropped from the VR. I can only see it being useful if you're using some over Lando set and you still need an SD Ground that isn't Garchomp (who I'd also honestly use over Diggersby) for whatever reason. I don't see it being ranked again any time soon.

Yeah, that's true. I think my replays weren't the best. Sometimes you need Return as well as Breakneck Blitz to break/sweep and this has served me really well, rather than double dance Fly, where fly becomes quite a bit worse after using the Z-Move.

I agree it's generally outclassed by Lando, and it's a small niche, and maybe it only works because of surprise value, but I think it has a niche. I could definitely be wrong!

 

[Deleted User 400951]

I fully support the movement of Chansey to A. Right now, we're seeing a rise in Volcarona, rain (particularly Specs Pelipper and Kingdra) and Magearna. None of these get past Chansey. Being a special wall in this meta is so so helpful, and Chansey is the one who's able to stand up to the most powerful of threats thanks to bulk alone. As for Heatran's SubToxic set, Chansey can at least break the substitute and switch out, with Natural Cure healing off the toxic. In the meantime, Heatran isn't doing much back. There's just so much going for Chansey right now. Raise Chansey to A.

I'll likely edit this post later with more noms when I've thought of more but for now, Chansey ought to rise to A rank.

 

[Gary]

Small ranking update

B+ ---> B

B- ---> C+

Sorry, we decided on these changes sorta last minute. They honestly shouldn't need any explanation. Carry on.

 

[hecatomb]

Volcarona as good as it is, is a one trick pony, you know its going to Q-dance, also it can slow down your whole team if you dont have a way to deal with stealth rocks, also there are plenty of mons in that give it problems, heatran, Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Garchomp etc, and not to mention you get taunted by any mon, Volcarona has to switch out. Volcarona does counter steal types, but most people are going to start with stealth rock, or taunt you. Its just if you are going to use Volcarona, you better get rid of rocks.

A+ to A

 

[BlisseyandChansey123]

Chansey A- - A 100% agree

Right now, Chansey has so many things going for it, just like what BPGXMG said. Rain being such a common playstyle these days with such a much better rain setter via Pelliper and the ever so good mega swampert and kingdra, made Chansey's role as a support and a special wall more vital than ever. With Magearna being the second most prominant and influencial pokemon in the metagame, its ability to wall its offensive trick room set and to shut down its shift gear set with thunder wave, that niche is so important.

Besides that, there is little reason to not put it beside the best support pokemon in the metagame, namely mew, toxapex, and Ferrothorn. Mew's amazing utility and versitility grants it an A rank, Ferrothorns role as a physical wall with only 2 weaknesses, Toxapex being the only viable toxic spike user in the tier, Chansey's utility and special wall and the circumstances of the current metagame should guarantee it an A rank.

Sum up the points=
1. Rain rising.
2. The niche to wall Magearna and to stop it from sweeping(so as Volc to a less extent)
3. It's niches are on par with it's defensive bethren.

 

[mushamu]

are we allowed to talk about the newly released mega evolutions?
If so, then:
Mega Banette (unranked) --> C

Though this thing may seem pretty awful at a first glance, it has a bunch of utility going for it.
Destiny Bond allows it to take down threats such as Zygarde, Volcarona, Greninja, and Tapu Koko. What I really like about this mon is that it basically checks anything when you put it on hyper offense, so you dont have to have a volcarona counter or a zygarde counter you could just slap it into one mon and it would work out. As Banette is slower than Zygarde or Volcarona, you would be able to click knock off while prankster destiny bond is intact. You could basically use Destiny Bond + Knock off to force the opponent to use an attacking move, or switching out and therefore knocking off the switchin's item.
Taunt allows it to block chansey from spreading hazards/utility, ferrothorn , skarmory, and Lando-T from setting hazards, and Zapdos from roosting.
Knock off can be used to remove choiced items, leftovers, and life orbs.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-595764038
I don't think Mega Banette would rise above C as it has heavy competition for the Mega slot.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

C+ up to B-

C+ undersells Volcanion IMO. For starters, it's a Special Attacker that actually beats Magearna, which has been rising in viability. Choice Specs is extremely powerful, and through S through A-, only Chansey, Latios and Zapdos are really safe switch-ins, and the latter two are susceptible to Pursuit. I don't think too much has changed for Volcanion to get better, I just think it's already good enough, though Heatran and the aforesaid Magearna are more common as of late. An Assault Vest set can be effective too, because while it's slow and weak to Stealth Rock, it allows Volcanion to deal with Kingdra rain, Volcarona, Clefable, and Gengar more nicely. Volcanion also has a new toy in Z-Solar Beam that allows it to blast past Rotom-Wash and Mega Swampert more easily. While Volcanion is very far from flawless, B- isn't a very high rank, and I think Volcanion has enough merits to rise up.

 

[Vert]

you are overrating this pokemon. z sets are very situational because of how weak its stab moves are. not exactly bad, but team specific nonetheless. assault vest volcanion is complete garbage so idk why you would use this.

i can definitely see where you are coming from though, being a powerful special attacker being able to destroy cores with magearna and mew, but the reality is the metagame has become way more fastpaced, particularly for ground-types which it can't come in on. landorus-t are running offensive sets more which outpace it, fast zygardes, higher garchomp usage, and being trapped by dugtrio is sad...tapu bulu are running a jolly nature. mantine forces you to predict and if you run hp electric you lose sludge wave or earth power to hit tapu fini (not particularly good, but it is still relevant because of how much usage it gets) and toxapex.

i think volcanion is underrated myself but it belongs more in c+ with other devastating, matchup based mons such as buzzwole.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

I'm gonna agree that Mega Banette is entirely unviable no matter what role it tries to play. On TR, Mega Mawile, Alolan Marowak and even Mega Camerupt lol is better. Prankster D-Bond is no real niche at all especially when it's costing the mega slot. It's not reliable at all with the D-bond nerf. Froslass itself is unviable imo but even it is better than Mega Banette. Tons of things carry knock so that's not unique, and there are other Taunt users like Koko that have real uses outside of prankster taunt + d bond and thus far outclass it. IDK why this is even being brought up lol. Mega Banette is just garbage.

On another note, could Weavile be brought up to A-? Pursuit trapping is very good in this meta with all the Psychics running around and Knock means that even resists can't come in without significant cost (unless they're mega or z-move users ofc). Also, Ice Shard gives good priority that KOs the common Scarf Chomp (with chip ofc) and Mega Pinsir and Icicle Crash hits many of the top tiered mons rather well like the ever-rising Latios, offensive Lando T (weavile can switch in on something predicted like SR or SD and then just kill), the rising Dugtrio and more. I wouldn't be surprised if Weavile isn't brought up and I'm not certain if I'm missing something but I think it could happen.

tl;dr Don't even bring Mega Banette up - it's 100% garbage. MAYBE rise Weavile.

 

[GMars]

Mega Banette's Prankster would run against Greninja's Dark type, meaning it would fail and not get off the D Bond. I think Banette is unviable in this metagame as its niche (which isn't really competitive) is honestly better pulled off by things like Frosslass which doesn't use a mega slot and also carries Spikes.

You are incorrect in this - Prankster Destiny Bond is a self targeting move and works even if the target or the user is a Dark-type.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

It's not reliable at all with the D-bond nerf.

The Dbond nerf didn't really affect Mega Banette, since there was never a reason you would want to use consecutive D-bonds. I don't have any opinion on whether it should be ranked, but priority Destiny Bond is a legitimate threat that can't really be "played around" when its user is also sporting a 165 base attack (though no strong STAB moves.)

Due to Mega Banette's slow speed it's actually pretty reliable so long as whatever it's fighting doesn't have priority itself. Mega Banette can alternate between a priority Destiny Bond and a slow, non-priority attack and essentially always be in a state where it's not safe to attack, but it can attack back itself. As an example: Shift Gear Magearna can't really avoid getting revenge killed by Mega Banette because it can never attack a (properly used) Mega Banette without getting brought down as well through Dbond, nor can it stall out Dbond's PP since it gets 2HKOed by Shadow Claw. Same story with nearly every attacker that doesn't have strong priority (so, basically all of them except Ash-Greninja and Mega Pinsir, since Extremespeed and Sucker Punch don't work.) Mega Banette is a one-stop shop for revenging everything.. only trouble is that it usually goes down itself, and prevents you from using a lot of really nice megas.

 

[lydian]

Yeah, the D-Bond nerf didn't affect it at all. Let's use Volcarona as an example:

You send out Mega Bannete to revenge kill Volcarona after one of your Pokemon got KO'd or you just predicted it to QD.

1) You use Destiny Bond first, beacuse of Prankster, even if you Mega Evolve this turn, you still get the Prankster boost beacuse of the new gen 7 mechanic where Megas gain speed upon Mega Evolving.

2) The Volcarona player has two options, attack or QD. if it attacks Bannette, both get KO'd, if it Quiver Dances turns ends.

3) Now turn two you attack Volcarona with Shadow Claw.

4) Once again, the Volcarona player has two options, QD again or attack Bannette. If it Quiver Dances, Bannette uses Shadow Claw and Volarona faints. Now if it attacks Bannete, Destiny Bond is still up and both get KO'd. That happens because D-Bond ends whenever the user attacks again. Because of the fact that Bannete not using Prankster is slower than Volcarona, Destiny Bond is still up when Volcarona attacks it on the second turn.

As you can see, it doesn't even need to use D-bond twice. Making the nerf completely irrelevant on this scenario. Froslass can't do this, nor can it outspeed Volcarona at +1 / +2. I don't believe Mega Bannete will make a significant impact on the OU tier, but it definitely excels at revenge killing set up sweepers. And as GMars mentioned, it can do it even with Dark-types. Maybe its not worth the Mega slot tho, but as user theuntalented said, it is an amazing asset to Hyper Offense since it can literally Revenge Kill any set up sweeper.

 

[Siggu]

Yeah, the D-Bond nerf didn't affect it at all. Let's use Volcarona as an example:

You send out Mega Bannete to revenge kill Volcarona after one of your Pokemon got KO'd or you just predicted it to QD.

1) You use Destiny Bond first, beacuse of Prankster, even if you Mega Evolve this turn, you still get the Prankster boost beacuse of the new gen 7 mechanic where Megas gain speed upon Mega Evolving.

2) The Volcarona player has two options, attack or QD. if it attacks Bannette, both get KO'd, if it Quiver Dances turns ends.

3) Now turn two you attack Volcarona with Shadow Claw.

4) Once again, the Volcarona player has two options, QD again or attack Bannette. If it Quiver Dances, Bannette uses Shadow Claw and Volarona faints. Now if it attacks Bannete, Destiny Bond is still up and both get KO'd. That happens because D-Bond ends whenever the user attacks again. Because of the fact that Bannete not using Prankster is slower than Volcarona, Destiny Bond is still up when Volcarona attacks it on the second turn.

As you can see, it doesn't even need to use D-bond twice. Making the nerf completely irrelevant on this scenario. Froslass can't do this, nor can it outspeed Volcarona at +1 / +2. I don't believe Mega Bannete will make a significant impact on the OU tier, but it definitely excels at revenge killing set up sweepers. And as GMars mentioned, it can do it even with Dark-types. Maybe its not worth the Mega slot tho, but as user theuntalented said, it is an amazing asset to Hyper Offense since it can literally Revenge Kill any set up sweeper.

In your scenario, a +1 Volcarona is completely stopped cold by Mega Banette. Since Volcarona's Speed is boosted and Banette is really slow, Volcarona moves twice in a row after Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond... but after Destiny Bond ends, it is now Mega Banette who moves twice.

- Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond
- Volcarona, scared, uses Quiver Dance
- Volcarona is forced to switch out or Quiver Dance again because Destiny Bond has not worn out yet
- Mega Banette uses Shadow Claw or some utility move
- Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond

Rinse and repeat.

At least Mega Banette is somewhat workable this gen. Unsure if it's enough to be worth ranking, though. You are using a Mega Evolution as a suicide check...

If only Sableye learned Destiny Bond *sigh*

 

[lydian]

In your scenery, a +1 Volcarona is completely stopped cold by Mega Banette. Since Volcarona's Speed is boosted and Banette is really slow, Volcarona moves twice in a row after Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond... but after Destiny Bond ends, it is now Mega Banette who moves twice.

- Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond
- Volcarona, scared, uses Quiver Dance
- Volcarona is forced to switch out or Quiver Dance again because Destiny Bond has not worn out yet
- Mega Banette uses Shadow Claw or some utility move
- Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond

Rinse and repeat.

At least Mega Banette is somewhat workable this gen. Unsure if it's enough to be worth ranking, though. You are using a Mega Evolution as a suicide check...

exactly! Thanks for summing it up :)

EDIT - forgot to mention this, but even if it is fighting a bulkier opponent that can take one of its hits, say DD + Coil Zygarde, in the #4 scenario, say it DD'd or Coil'd and Mega Bannette attacked it, even if didn't KO Zygarde, it goes back to the scenario #1 because since Mega Bannete picked another move, D-Bond can be used again, with 100% success rate. The only scenario where Mega Bannette can't do this efficiently, is when the foe has a priority that can KO Bannette, or when the opponent's attack is a role to KO Mega Bannette, these are the only scenarios where a 50/50 is created, but those cases are quite uncommon actually :/

 

[Sun King]

You are incorrect in this - Prankster Destiny Bond is a self targeting move and works even if the target or the user is a Dark-type.

Lel git rekt me. Thanks for correcting me.

In this case, there is a niche, but I would still argue that it is still too narrow for OU, especially when Focus Sash+D Bond can still function decently well while also bringing other tools. Banette still only has like Shadow Claw and D Bond, meaning it's really only marginally useful at best. I would rather use my mega on something that has a less niche use, and also just use an effective RKiller than a D Bonder. I would not rank Banette.

 

[robopoke]

Thanks I like pink mons
Mega Banette doesnt even reliably stop Volcarona. Look at this replay:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-597652206
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-597652206
@edit: So even that 1 niche it has is not reliable so Id say keep it unranked.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Well, I just accidentally derailed that whole thread right there... sorry.
But really, regardless of how D-bond is for it, it shouldn't be ranked or even brought up. D-Bond + Taunt is not worth wasting a mega for, especially with such competition for the mega slot. Who would waste the mega slot on a suicide D-Bonder? In TR, Mega Mawile, Alowak and even Mega Camerupt do better than it. In anything else, it doesn't do much that's notable. Let's just NOT rank Mega Banette.
Also, I'm still gonna back Weavile rising. Pursuit trapping is getting better and better, and with Lando-T using offensive sets nowadays, Weavile can reliably revenge it. Knock means that nothing can switch in without some repercussion - sans Megas and Z-Move users ofc. I wrote a post about this above in more detail, but the point is, Weavile belongs in A-.

 

[volx757]

Thanks I like pink mons
Mega Banette doesnt even reliably stop Volcarona. Look at this replay:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-597652206
@edit: So even that 1 niche it has is not reliable so Id say keep it unranked.

Lol you got haxed in that replay, it's definitely not the norm for what would happen in this scenario. Assuming the volcarona user never attacks, you have two 30% chances to get burned. O ALSO, you have to be at super low health like you were from that giga drain that almost KOd and got the volc brought down with it, so most of the time banette won't be at 2% and burned. The situation wasn't constructed by either players' skill or lack of skill, it was pure chance, low damage rolls and a 1/3. I think the niche is reliable. Still not enough to get ranked tho.

 

[Gary]

As of now, we aren't considering ranking Mega Banette. It's too niche and despite its "buff" this gen, its opportunity cost is still way too high to consider it worth using on almost any serious team, so there is no need to discuss this any further please.

 

[banks]

--->C+/B-

First time nominator forgive me if this is ass

Slightly surprised that no has brought Alolan-Ninetales up considering it's extremely splashable on a lot of offensive teams, giving them a more defensive backbone thanks to Auroru Veil, aiding mons like Mega-TTar, Mimikyu, Mega-Mawile, Zygarde etc etc in their role as sweepers.

Additionally, it's relatively easy for A-Ninetales to set up screens, due to it's niche speed tier and access to Hypnosis. Since rain is kinda prominent at the moment, it can easily shut down the whole team if played well.

There's not much else to say but this definitely deserves a rise in my opinion ~