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Projects SM RU Victim of the Week [Week 22: Swords Dance Decidueye]

Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by Randomnick, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Randomnick

    Randomnick

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Approved by Spirit, OP adapted from the OU Victim of the Week.
    Co-hosted with Lord Esche.


    [​IMG]
    Victim of the Week
    Art made by Bummer
    Every generation is different and the metagame is constantly changing. However, there has always been and always will be threats. Whether they are defensive threats or offensive threats, every competent player should have a way to handle top-tier threats. That's where you guys come in! This project aims to gather some of the common top-tier threats in the metagame and find Pokémon that can either check or counter them.
    Procedure (open)
    Every wednesday I will nominate a Pokémon, in 6 days you guys will have the ability to discuss and nominate various Pokémon that you think can either check or counter the Victim of the Week.
    I will close submissions on tuesday then choose the best options for checks and counters.
    I'll try to update always at 2:00 PM (GMT -3), sometimes I may update sooner or later.
    I will archive the results and the process will continue week after week.
    Rules (open)
    Follow the definitions for checks and counters, by MattL in The Smog Issue 32!
    Focus on posting viable Pokémon and sets, we got a Viability Ranking recently, but it's not complete yet and some viable Pokémon can be unranked, so use the common sense to don't post unviable Pokémon, if you post an unranked Pokémon or a gimmick set, try to provide a replay of this Pokémon or set in action. I will accept your set if you explain how it works, but this doesn't mean it's good and then it probably most people won't vote in this set anyway.
    Each user can suggest 1 check or 1 counter in each round. Reservations are fine as long as you complete them within a time-frame of 24 hours. Afterwards they will be up for the taking.
    Note that we require an explanation and set for the Pokemon that you posted. Of course we're not asking you to write a thesis but a paragraph of about 3 sentences on why your chosen Pokemon works will be sufficient.
    If you want sprite, just copy and paste the following line, replacing 'pokemon' with whatever you want.
    Code:
    Code:
    http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xy/pokemon.gif
    Diferent sets of the same Pokémon can be suggested. For example, person a) can nominate Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus as a check to something, while person b) can nominate Calm Mind Reuniclus as a counter to the same thing in the same week.
    Help people out if you think they're wrong, but please be nice.
    Post calcs if not obvious.
    Any problem or doubt feel free to ask in this thread or contact me in a private message

    Current Victim:
    [​IMG]
    Swords Dance Decidueye
    Decidueye @ Grassium Z
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Leaf Blade
    - Spirit Shackle
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017 at 3:44 PM
  2. Randomnick

    Randomnick

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Archive (open)

    Week 1 (open)

    Flame Orb Heracross (No longer available in the tier)
    [​IMG]
    Checks: [​IMG] Imprison Sableye (guan123) and [​IMG] Granbull (PursuitOfHappiny)
    Counters: [​IMG] Gligar (Espeonage.) and [​IMG] Cofagrigus (The Bill Cipher)
    Week 2 (open)
    Week 3 (open)
    Week 4 (open)
    Week 5 (open)
    Week 6 (open)
    Week 7 (open)
    Week 8 (open)
    Week 9 (open)
    Week 10 (open)
    Calm Mind Reuniclus (No longer available in the tier)
    [​IMG]
    Checks: [​IMG] Escavalier (SkywardSword596), [​IMG] Dhelmise (The Bill Cipher), and [​IMG] Durant (Cheryl.)
    Counters: [​IMG] Quagsire (HotFuzzBall), [​IMG] Rhyperior (Feliburn), and [​IMG] Cresselia (Arifeen)
    Week 11 (open)
    Week 12 (open)
    Week 13 (open)
    Week 14 (open)
    Week 15 (open)
    Week 16 (open)
    Week 17 (open)
    Week 18 (open)
    Week 19 (open)
    Week 20 (open)
    Choice Band Tyrantrum
    [​IMG]
    Checks: [​IMG]Doublade (askov), [​IMG] Bronzong (Mylo Xyloto), and [​IMG] Nidoqueen (HypnoEmpire)
    Band Tyrantrum has no counters.
    Week 21 (open)
    Week 22 (Current Week) (open)
    Swords Dance Decidueye
    [​IMG]
    Checks:
    Counters:
    Hall of Fame (open)
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM
  3. Randomnick

    Randomnick

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    So our first Victim of the Week is:
    Flame Orb Heracross
    [​IMG]
    Heracross @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Facade
    - Knock Off
    - Swords Dance / Megahorn​

    I know that Swords Dance Guts and All-out Attacker Guts are different sets, but they are variations of Guts Heracross. While Choice Scarf is harder to revenge kill, it's by far easier to switch, switch on Guts Heracross is extremely hard. While Swords Dance increase Heracross's Attack stat to insane levels and help Heracross to pressure more defensive builds (OHKOing Florges at +2), without setting up Heracross already hits hard and Megahorn is an option that helps against some Psychic-, Bug- and Grass-types, also beating that Sableye Imprison set. Close Combat is a spammable STAB, 2HKOing almost anything that doesn't resist it. Knock Off gives coverage against Psychic- and Ghost-types, also removing foe's item. Thanks to the boost given by burn Facade have 140 Base Power and gives an awesome neutral coverage, hitting hard Fairy- and Poison-types like Comfey, Nidoqueen, Dragalge and Florges. Tell me, how do you guys check Guts Heracross on your team?
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    Lord Esche likes this.
  4. Miyami~~

    Miyami~~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    530
    Reserving Mantine
  5. Espeonage.

    Espeonage.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    58
    Gligar as a counter

    (Sprites weren't working for me)

    Gligar @ Eviolite
    Ability: Hyper Cutter
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Acrobatics

    On many teams, acrobatics gligar is the go-to awnser to Flame orb heracross. Gligar can easily switch in to close combat, and force heracross out, and it has reliable recovery so it can so so consistently. However, with the right prediction Heracross can knock off Gligar's eviolite and 2HKO with facade.

    Calcs:
    0 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 232-280 (77 - 93%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    The above calc doesn't factor in burn damage, so gligar is very likely to KO heracross after Stealth rock and burn damage.
    252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 113-134 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO




    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  6. LJSchoppert

    LJSchoppert

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    I nominate Life Orb Moltres as a check
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Under good conditions (no hazards, Hera hasn't boosted) Moltres can switch in on any of Hera's attacks (Facade does a max of 88.7%) and OHKO with either of its STABs. Under bad conditions (rocks are up or Hera has an SD) you can't switch in, but you're still faster and can still ohko. Obviously you'll want serious hazard removal on your team.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Randomnick likes this.
  7. PursuitOfHappiny

    PursuitOfHappiny

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    362
    Granbull as a Check

    [​IMG]
    Granbull @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Play Rough
    - Earthquake
    - Heal Bell
    - Roar

    Granbull can come in relatively safely on Heracross as long as it doesn't have an SD up. Chew the hit and OHKO with Play Rough after Burn damage.

    calcs (open)

    -1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 141-166 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    -1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 90-107 (23.4 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    -1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 49-58 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    -1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 90-107 (23.4 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    8 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Kyora, Randomnick and Pepeduce like this.
  8. Randomnick

    Randomnick

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    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Just pointing out one thing:
    Specify if you Pokémon is a check or a counter, so it will be easier for me when I post the voting stage

    Also:
    I think I could accept since it's a different set, but since your main goal is outspeed an OHKO Heracross with a STAB I think you'd better choose a different set.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  9. Miyami~~

    Miyami~~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    530
    [​IMG]
    Mantine @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Air Slash

    Mantine is a surprisingly shaky check to Heracross, only being able to check non-SD variants at all, as at +2 Mantine is OHKOed or 2HKOed by Knock Off, Close Combat, or Facade. It does fare better against AoA Heracross, being able to live 3 of its moves decently comfortably (Facade twice, however, will KO). and fire off Air Slashes.

    252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 139-164 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 129-152 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 51.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 200-236 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 129-152 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 51.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Not really a check and really situational so I really wouldn't recommend it but it's the best I could come up with.
    Randomnick likes this.
  10. Skankovich

    Skankovich

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    390
    Palossand as a counter
    [​IMG]
    Palossand @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Earth Power
    - Psychic
    - Toxic
    - Shore Up

    Literally the only thing that switches into every Hera set safely with reliable recovery. Z-Psychic is needed to net the kill on a +2 Hera and also reduces knock off damage, and thanks to its handy rock resist it doesn't miss the lefties as much as other mons. The rest is pretty self explanatory, it's actually a pretty decent mon in my experience, just not all that splashable since it lacks rocks or other utility. Also pair it with a Gigalith for a chance of Hera doing no damage at all!

    +2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 280-330 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 SpA Palossand Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 262-310 (87 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  11. PursuitOfHappiny

    PursuitOfHappiny

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    362
    If you're gonna go with Palossand as a possible check then you want to make sure you actually kill Hera reliably. With the set you posted Shattered Psyche has only a 25% chance to OHKO Heracross, burn damage included.
  12. Randomnick

    Randomnick

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Palossand can switch in, stall Heracross out with if not a SD variant and since Heracross will take burn each turn and Shattered Psyche will deal a lot to Hera, I think I can accept that.
    Also again, please specify if you are taking the Pokémon as a check or as a counter, it make things easier for me when I'll post the voting stage
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  13. Skankovich

    Skankovich

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    390
    I mean, if a team is super desperate for a 100% answer and can't keep rocks or spikes up or chip Hera as it comes in you could go for protect > toxic or earth power if needed, but as far as heracross defensive answers go this is the best you can get really, with reliable recovery, doesn't die to a +2 move and has a way to 1hko back.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Randomnick and KoldKappuccino like this.
  14. guan123

    guan123

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    May 9, 2016
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    Credits to microwaveoven and Tsunami for this set
    Sableye as a check
    Sableye @ Fairium Z
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Imprison
    - Knock Off
    - Recover
    - Dazzling Gleam
    You might be wondering why I included this set as knock off 2hkos. However, imprison prevents the second Knock Off and forces Heracross to switch, allowing Sableye to recover up.
    +2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Sableye: 197-232 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    This does not work against Megahorn, though. Megahorn almost OHKO, even at +0.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
    Kyora and Randomnick like this.
  15. PursuitOfHappiny

    PursuitOfHappiny

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    362
    0 SpA Sableye Twinkle Tackle (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 170-200 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

    Sableye might be a good check for Scarf Heracross but we're dealing with Flame Orb Heracross as stated in the OP. Flame Orb Heracross doesn't care about Sableye and just clicks Megahorn.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  16. guan123

    guan123

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    Sorry about that. Want me to delete my post? I changed mine to reflect the calculation you provided.
  17. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas but then what's left of me?
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a defending SPL Champion
    RU Co-Leader

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    Messages:
    4,208
    It counters by pressing imprison so standard SD Heracross can't use knock off and therefore can't hit sableye at all.
    Lennart and PursuitOfHappiny like this.
  18. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas but then what's left of me?
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a defending SPL Champion
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,208
    Double posting cause I just caught this, you need to make sableye PDef in order to actually counter in pretty sure (well at least a second time).
  19. guan123

    guan123

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    Changed that on my post, it says 252 HP/248 Def/8 SpDef
  20. The Bill Cipher

    The Bill Cipher

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2016
    Messages:
    90
    reserving cofagrigus as a counter
    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus @ Icium Z/Colbur Berry
    Ability: Mummy
    Evs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Hex
    -Haze/Pain Split
    -Toxic Spikes

    Cofagrigus isn't a great Pokémon in RU, but if you need a check to Heracross, it works well, the ideia is simple, Icium-Z will activate Z-Haze (restoring all Cofagrigus' HP when needed) and weaken Hera's Knock Off, Haze also prevent prevent Heracross from setting up, Colbur + Pain Split is also an option, it won't make Hera unable to set up but will weaken the first Knock Off damage. Hex takes avantage of the burn, making Hex do double the damage and be able to 2HKO Heracross. These EVs allows Cofa to take Hera's moves with ease, also thanks to Mummy, Cofagrigus can make Heracross lose Guts, cutting it's Atk by health

    Calcs (open)

    252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 114-136 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Cofagrigus Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
    252 Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 79-93 (24.6 - 29%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
    252 Atk burned Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 39-46 (12.1 - 14.3%) -- possible 7HKO
    252 Atk burned Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Cofagrigus: 28-34 (8.7 - 10.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    252 Atk Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Cofagrigus: 57-68 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  21. Randomnick

    Randomnick

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Just a reminder, voting phase starts tomorrow, so you have only today to finish your post Espeonage., also if someone want to suggest something, today is your last chance.
    Also I think I will add a limit of time to post your sets once you reserved something so if you don't post it in time other person can pick that Pokémon
    Edit: From now on, reservations are fine as long as you complete them within a time-frame of 24 hours. Afterwards they will be up for the taking.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  22. Randomnick

    Randomnick

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    Apr 25, 2016
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    347
    Voting Phase:
    Choose your 2 favourite checks and your 2 favourite counters (you can click on the Pokémon name to see the original post). Don't vote for your own set, the voting phase will end on wednesday at 2 PM (GMT -3).

    Checks

    Mantine (Miyami~~)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Mantine @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Air Slash
    Moltres (LJSchoppert)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn
    - Roost
    Granbull (PursuitOfHappiny)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Granbull @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Play Rough
    - Earthquake
    - Heal Bell
    - Roar
    Imprison Sableye (guan123)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Fairium Z
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Imprison
    - Knock Off
    - Recover
    - Dazzling Gleam

    Counters

    Gligar (Espeonage.)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Gligar @ Eviolite
    Ability: Hyper Cutter
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Acrobatics
    Psychium Z Palossand (Skankovich)
    Set (open)
    [​IMG]
    Palossand @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Earth Power
    - Psychic
    - Toxic
    - Shore Up
    Cofagrigus (The Bill Cipher)
    Set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus @ Icium Z / Colbur Berry
    Ability: Mummy
    Evs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Hex
    -Haze / Pain Split
    -Toxic Spikes
    Lord Esche likes this.
  23. Cheryl.

    Cheryl. Breh
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,840
    Checks: Imprision Sableye and Moltres
    Counters: Gligar and Cofagrigus
    Randomnick likes this.
  24. Tuthur1

    Tuthur1

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Checks: Granbull and Sableye
    Counters: Gligar and Cofragrigus
    Randomnick likes this.
  25. Solgaleo

    Solgaleo

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    118
    Checks: Granbull and Sableye
    Counters: Cofragrigus and Gligar

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