Project USM RU Victim of the Week (Week 33: Swords Dance Feraligatr)

[poh]

Checks: Mantine and Sableye
Counters: Gligar and Cofagrigus

 

[Miyami~~]

Checks: Granbull and Sableye
Counters: Gligar and Cofragrigus

 

[Umen Berker]

Checks: Granbull and Moltres
Counters: Gligar and Cofragrigus

 

[Kyora]

Checks: Sableye and Granbull
Counters: Gligar and Cofagrigus

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Checks: Moltres and Granbull
Counters: Gligar and Psychium Z Pallosand

 

[aVocado]

Checks: Mantine and Moltres
Counters: Gligar and Cofagrigus

 

[Eclipse]

Checks: Granbull and Sableye
Counters: Cofagrigus and Gligar

 

[Natan]

The time for voting is up, thanks everyone for the submissions and votes.

The winners are:

Checks: Sableye (guan123) and Granbull (PursuitOfHappiny)
Counters: Gligar (Espeonage.) and Cofagrigus (The Bill Cipher)
Congratulations!

Vote Count

Checks
Mantine - 2
Moltres - 4
Granbull - 7
Sableye - 7

Counters
Gligar - 10
Palossand - 1
Cofagrigus - 9

The Vicitm of the Week 2 is Life Orb Shaymin:

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
- Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
- Synthesis
Seed Flare is Shaymin's STAB, not only with a great damage but it also have a 40% chance to lower the target's Sp. Def by 2, this make even trickier switching on Shaymin. Hidden Power Fire allows Shaymin to hit Grass- and Bug-types such as Dhelmise and Escavalier, also allowing it to hit Bronzong super effectively, while Earth Power help against Fire- and Steel-types such as Registeel and Torkoal. Psychic allows Shaymin to hit Poison-types such as Toxicroak and Roserade, also giving a better option against Fighting-types such as Kommo-o and Heracross while Dazzling Gleam give to Shaymin a way to hit some Dark and Dragon more reliably, OHKOing Kommo-o, Honchkrow and Noivern after Rocks (who could otherwise take a hit and Roost off the damage), also being Shaymin's best option to damage Goodra. Synthesis give a recovery option so Shaymin won't faint to Life Orb recoil as well.

 

[guan123]

Goodra as a counter (specially defensive)
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Tail
This laughs at anything shaymin can throw at it, immune to seed flare and laughs at any of the listed moves, even Dazzling Gleam.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 88-107 (22.9 - 27.9%) -- 74.3% chance to 4HKO
That's the best shaymin can do, and goodra 2HKOs with Fire Blast.

 

[Natan]

Assault Vest Goodra Asa counter

Sniped...also, slashed Dazzling Gleam over Psychic as an option to beat Honchkrow, I forgot that move

 

[Kyora]

Moltres as a check (Choice Scarf)
Moltres @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Moltres isn't a very nice counter to Shaymin 'cause with Stealth Rocks and Psychic damages, Moltres will have only 10% to its life, so I think it's not a good counter, but it's a really nice check, Moltres Scarf outspeed Shaymin Life Orb attacker and OHKO it with Fire Blast/Hurricane:
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 350-414 (102.6 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[poh]

Registeel as a Counter

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Protect
- Toxic

Shaymin lacking Earth Power pretty much gets countered by Registeel. The cool part is that Regi doesn''t care about Seed Flare because 1. it does little damage and 2. Clear Body prevents the -2 Spdef drop. Registeel then proceeds to wear Shaymin down with a combination of Toxic and Seismic Toss and Shaymins recoil damage from Life Orb. Earth Power also doesn't do enough damage to threaten Registeel.

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 117-138 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Avant Heim]

Bronzong as a Check

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Gyro Ball
- Protect/Earthquake/Psywave

The set is simple,it can eat everything on the shaymin set and it can do:
1:Use Toxic to help negate the Synthesis healing
2: Use Gyro Ball/Pyswave/Earthquake to get damage of
3: Set up Stealth Rocks

It must be careful when switching,as some HP Fire would do the job,also,The Gyro Ball damage wouldn't negate the Synthesis healing,so,as i sad before,Toxic is a more safe way of getting damage of(as the Toxic damage will force shaymin out at one point)

The lack of recovery is also a problem,so Bronzong should avoid entering too much,especially with Stealth Rocks up,as the chip damage will help HP Fire.

Also,the 40% chance of SpD drop from Seed Flare also can be troblesome,as HP fire will 2HKO at full

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 94-112 (27.8 - 33.1%) -- 75% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 69-82 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 185-218 (54.7 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 136-162 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (90 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 88-105 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

[Cheryl.]

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Rotom-Heat is a Counter to LO Shaymin, taking little from Seed Flare and any of Shaymin's coverage moves, only having a 20% chance to be 3HKOed by Psychic after Leftovers recovery. Levitate allows Rotom-H to be immune to Earth Power as well. In response, Rotom-Heat can use Overheat to severely damage Shaymin, OHKOing it after a little bit of prior damage. Rotom-Heat can also use Pain Split to keep itself healthy for multiple switch-ins to Shaymin. The only threat Shaymin poses to Rotom-H is a potential Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, which causes Rotom-H to take a lot more damage from Shaymin's attacks. However, I think Rotom-Heat's reliability to switch into Shaymin and do severe damage to it allows it to be a proper counter.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 101-120 (33.3 - 39.6%) -- 20.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 101-120 (33.3 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 100-118 (33 - 38.9%) -- 12.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 44-53 (14.5 - 17.4%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. -2 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 200-237 (66 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (If Seed Flare gets SpD drop)

0 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 290-344 (85 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Natan]

Should the two Goodra entries be merged? Both of them are assault vest Goodra sets, and they say almost the same thing.

Umen Berker's post won't count unless he change the check/counter

 

[aVocado]

Randomnick I heavily recommend using the same method as the last two victim of the week threads in RU. Basically there is no voting phase and you yourself picked the best counters you thought were viable (at the time we picked 3 each for checks and counters), and if there are niche ones that still work, or more counters/checks that are as good as the 3 picked, then a special mention is made for them. Voting phase does nothing but clutter the thread and a good mon might be left out :[

anyway here's my entry:

Salazzle as a check

Salazzle @ Poisonium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Can't switch in on anything besides Seed Flare/HP Fire or Synthesis, but once its in it either forces Shaymin out or OHKOs it w/ Fire Blast. Quite simple really, but don't let it take an earth power or psychic cuz it's ohko'd.

Also keep in mind Salazzle needs one round of Life Orb or SR to OHKO Shaymin with Fire Blast (needs 2 rounds of LO for sludge wave), but if you have LO then it's an OHKO for both moves regardless.

 

[Umen Berker]

Umen Berker's post won't count unless he change the check/counter

Deleted it myself. Damn Snipers, I'm on mobile you heartless b*stards. The second post was likely started and completed while I was trying to copy paste calcs. Oh well

 

[Thomas_633]

I've never done this before but I'd like to nominate Noivern as a check if that's ok

Dubstep (Noivern) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 116 HP / 204 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hurricane
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Flamethrower

(yes it's a weird set but it works surprisingly well)

He obvs can't switch into SR+Dazzling Gleam very well but apart from that he laughs off most everything Shaymin can through at him, easily OHKO's using Hurricane and switches into Earth Power and Synthesis (obviously) as well as Seed Flare, Psychic and HP Fire. After rocks it also beats Shaymin after a round of Life Orb damage with Meteor if you'd like to avoid shaky accuracy.

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Noivern: 229-270 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

204+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 462-546 (135.4 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[HotFuzzBall]

reserving moltres

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic

Defensive Moltres as a counter to Shaymin. Similarly to Rotom-H, Moltres 4x resists Seed Flare and is just resistant to Dazzling Gleam and HP Fire while being immune to Earth Power. Moltres also doesn't take much from Psychic and even then, it has recovery from both Leftovers and reliable recovery through Roost to heal up. Moltres is also able to 2HKO Shaymin with Flamethrower.

0 SpA Moltres Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 236-278 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 122-144 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. -1 248 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 183-216 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Natan]

Deleted it myself. Damn Snipers, I'm on mobile you heartless b*stards. The second post was likely started and completed while I was trying to copy paste calcs. Oh well

You can reservate the Pokémon and finish the post later

Randomnick I heavily recommend using the same method as the last two victim of the week threads in RU. Basically there is no voting phase and you yourself picked the best counters you thought were viable (at the time we picked 3 each for checks and counters), and if there are niche ones that still work, or more counters/checks that are as good as the 3 picked, then a special mention is made for them. Voting phase does nothing but clutter the thread and a good mon might be left out :[

I talked with Lord Esche and we both agree on this, community involvement is nice but I think it's a fairer let we decide this so will work like this:
From now on, no voting phase anymore, I will close submissions on tuesday then choose the best options for checks and counters and announce the winners (and the next VotW) on wednesday.

 

[esche]

To be a little more precise about this decision: This project aims to find the best/most effective checks and counters to a given threat at the current state of the metagame. This should be done as objectively as possible to give players, who may look into this thread as a resource to improve their building/playing capability, the most accurate answer to "How do I deal with this or that threat?", but also to "What checks/counters this or that threat the best?". Keep in mind that, even though creativity is appreciated, it will play a role whether a submitted set has an actual place in the metagame. We will strive to provide a short explanation as to why a certain set was picked to represent a good counter/check to the respective victim of the week. This is not to say our decisions will not be influenced by our own subjectivity - this would be impossible to achieve - but we do believe that it is a step forward to have the hosts debate about the submissions and reflect upon their effectiveness instead of leaving it to an open voting phase, which we consider to be less objective. If necessary we will consult other knowledgeable RU players to give their thoughts on the submissions.

TLDR; Randomnick and I agreed to discuss our thoughts of the submitted entries at the end of every week and come to a resonable conclusion from there.

 

[Umen Berker]

To be a little more precise about this decision: This project aims to find the best/most effective checks and counters to a given threat at the current state of the metagame. This should be done as objectively as possible to give players, who may look into this thread as a resource to improve their building/playing capability, the most accurate answer to "How do I deal with this or that threat?", but also to "What checks/counters this or that threat the best?". Keep in mind that, even though creativity is appreciated, it will play a role whether a submitted set has an actual place in the metagame. We will strive to provide a short explanation as to why a certain set was picked to represent a good counter/check to the respective victim of the week. This is not to say our decisions will not be influenced by our own subjectivity - this would be impossible to achieve - but we do believe that it is a step forward to have the hosts debate about the submissions and reflect upon their effectiveness instead of leaving it to an open voting phase, which we consider to be less objective. If necessary we will consult other knowledgeable RU players to give their thoughts on the submissions.

TLDR; Randomnick and I agreed to discuss our thoughts of the submitted entries at the end of every week and come to a resonable conclusion from there.

Is there any possibility this could be done with a rotating set of judges from the active members of the community? So as to keep the opinions varied and try and minimize the effect of any personal bias you two may have (obviously minimize not completely remove, as that's impossible)

 

[poh]

Is there any possibility this could be done with a rotating set of judges from the active members of the community? So as to keep the opinions varied and try and minimize the effect of any personal bias you two may have (obviously minimize not completely remove, as that's impossible)

You don't need a rotating council for this kind of thread. You just need 1 or more people who know the difference between valid check/counters and atrocious meme sets. This is not some suspectthread kinda situation so the opinion of 2 guys who i assume have plenty of knowledge of the tier definitely suffice.

 

[Lennart]

Bulky SD Scyther as a Counter


Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Aerial Ace
- Brutal Swing / U-Turn /[ Bug Bite ]

This set switches into every attack which the stated lo shaymin can possibly toss at it with relativly ease , even HP Fire . Plus the fact that it is faster than lo shaymin and able to roost off the damage it took , which is especially usefull when you need to switch into shaymin and rocks are up . On your side , aerial ace threatens out shaymin ( does obviously 2 hko ) and at an range of ~62 % its just able to take out shaymin even unboosted. On this set brutal swing is choosen over the common U-turn in last gen, because it enables syther to do massive damage to the likes of mainly bronzong ( without beeing forced out ) and it helps to not get completely shut down by doublade with the positive sideffect that you`re at least able to hit bulky steels neutrally and it basically hits nearly everything which U-turn would also hit. U-turn is still worth mentioning because it helps vs a few slower Etypes and it`s just nice to have for offensive Momentum.

 

[Natan]

Should the two Goodra entries be merged? Both of them are assault vest Goodra sets, and they say almost the same thing.

So this isn't a one-liner, I am reserving Golbat as a check.
Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
This can switch into any of Shaymin's moves (yes, including psychic) although it cannot switch in on a -2 SpD drop.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 133-159 (37.5 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Meanwhile, Golbat can toxic and roost off the damage. It can also brave bird if needed. The problem with brave bird is its recoil damage.
Edit: Natural cure means Shaymin will switch out of toxic. It still fears Brave Bird, though.

guan123 you probably didn't read the rules, but it says you are allowed to choose one check or one counter, this mean no Golbat, sorry