Metagame SM Ubers General Metagame Discussion

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Co-Leader
#1

Gen 7 is essentially upon us, and since Ubers should be ready to go as soon as the new stuff goes live on Pokemon Showdown!, I see no reason to hold back metagame discussion/speculation any longer. Feel free to use this thread to discuss the Ubers SM Metagame.

Important: we will be carrying over the banlist for ORAS into Gen 7. This means Mega Rayquaza will remain banned at the start of Gen 7. SM has introduced exactly zero things that would potentially help keep Mega Rayquaza in check, so we're not going to waste our time letting it out of the cage. I don't imagine anyone will lose sleep over this.

Resources:
Pokemon Sun and Moon Mine Resource Thread - (this should have everything you need)
Pokemon Sun and Moon Mechanics Research

Suspects or potential bans are not a topic for discussion in this thread.

Notable Changes from Gen 6 at a glance:

  • Relevant new mons: Solgaleo, Lunala, Marshadow, UBs
  • Dark Void nerfed to 50% accuracy
  • Aerilate and other -ate abilities nerfed to 20% boost.
  • Soul Dew nerfed - now only 20% boost to Dragon and Psychic moves
  • Dark-types are immune to Prankster
  • Thunder Wave now 90% accuracy
  • Burn damage nerfed to 1/16
  • Paralysis only halves speed instead of quartering it
  • Marshadow is not obtainable as of yet
  • Diancite, Mewtwonite X/Y, Blazikenite, Mawilite and Tyranitarite are NOT obtainable at the moment
 
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Dream

It's Prime Time
is a Community Contributor
#2
Something I haven't looked into too deeply and am still uncertain over is the Aerilate nerf. How big of an impact does that engender over Mega Mence's effectiveness at doing what it did previously?
 
#3
say hello to Kartana!

The good:
3rd highest attack stat in the game at 181 (higher then deoxys-attack and primal groudon)
Solid speed stat at 109
Pretty solid physical defense
Decent attacking type in Grass, with coverage options Sacred Sword, Night Slash, or X-Scissor
Swords dance!

The bad:
Best steel STAB is only 70 base power
Less Special Defense than Zubat
Easy to revenge kill with literally any fire move
59 base hp means it's physical bulk is also limited

what do you guys think?

EDIT: 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 246-291 (118.8 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
--------------------------
on other changes:
xerneas might be harder to check now, as even paralyzed just the regular speed it would have.
gengar will have a harder time finding time to mega-evolve, but choiced ground moves weren't that common anyway.
RIP darkrai, would have enjoyed the prankster nerf too.
 
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Elec.

please read the description
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#4
say hello to Kartana!

The good:
3rd highest attack stat in the game at 181 (higher then deoxys-attack and primal groudon)
Solid speed stat at 109
Pretty solid physical defense
Decent attacking type in Grass, with coverage options Sacred Sword, Night Slash, or X-Scissor
Swords dance!

The bad:
Best steel STAB is only 70 base power
Less Special Defense than Zubat
Easy to revenge kill with literally any fire move
59 base hp means it's physical bulk is also limited

what do you guys think?
It looks like Deoxys-A with better typing, slightly better bulk (well a lot more physical bulk), & weaker moves. The Speed isnt really much of an issue as 109 outspeeds a lot of Uber mons. It seems like a really fun wallbreaker to use, especially since I enjoy using Deo-A, a Pokemon it will face competition with for a wallbreaker.
 
#5
With the brutal Soul Dew nerf... what can reliably stand up against a boosted Primal Kyogre other than Primal Groudon? (And Lunala as a first impression)

(It also allows it to no longer use Blizzard over Ice Beam)
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#6
Ok so wanted to talk about cover legends and how I feel they would impact the metagame:



Solgaleo
So when I first saw this thing I must admit I was not impressed with its Steel/Psychic typing due to the fact that it is weak to many common offensive types in the Ubers metagame such as Ground, Fire, and Dark, and thus I felt it would not make too much of an impact. However, when I saw its stats I immediately when't back on my previous thoughts due to how good its stats were spread in particular in its HP, Atk, and Defense. It also possesses a reasonable 97 Speed which lets it outspeed Rayquaza and below which is also very respectable. Here are a few sets I thought of:

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun
- Zen Headbutt
- Flare Blitz / Earthquake


Solgaleo has the luxury of resisting Fairy which is already a huge bonus to it due to the abundance and volatility of Geomancy Xerneas. This EV Spread exactly helps Solgaelo avoid the 2HKO from a +2 Focus Blast and be able to OHKO Xerneas in return with Sunsteel Strike. It also gets good coverage in Flare Blitz and Earthquake which helps it beat Steel and Fire types respectably and reliable recovery in Morning Sun which is always nice, especially if it uses it when Primal Groudon switches into it.

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock
- Morning Sun


This set turns Solgaleo into a nice bulky win condiiton with Calm Mind boosts. It is really tanky and CM helps it boost its lowest stat in Special Defense. Full Metal Body also prevents stat drops which is also very nice and makes it even more difficult to deal with.

Solgaleo @ Choice Band
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz


This set is pretty straightforward as it allows Solgaleo to hit like a truck with a Choice Band equipped. Steel/Psychic/Fire/Ground coverage is unresisted iirc. Ya not much else to say, I can really see this set be popular.



Lunala
Lunala had also intrigued me with its pretty unique Ghost/Psychic typing and also made me mroe hyped when I saw its stats. Its basically like Solgaleo, but it trades its Attack to be more Specially inclined and it is more Specially bulky as well. Although it is x4 weak to Pursuit which does hamper it, I still feel that it will make an impact to the meta due to its great offensive typing and the coverage options it gets which compliments its STABs.

Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast


This is the first set I thought of when I saw its movepool. Legit nothing could switch into this thing besides bulky special walls like Blissey really. Ghost/Psychic is just so good offensively and Moonblast and Focus Blast just compliment this even further. Really nothing else to add.

Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Moongeist Beam
- Substitute
- Roost


This is another set I thought of when I saw its ability which is basically Multiscale. It basically could setup with its amazing bulk with its ability. Both of its STABs have immunities so maybe another coverage option would be better but the rest is really good.

Lunala @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 28 HP / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam/Roost
- Moonblast


Ok this might be a meme set but hear me out. Shadow Shield allows it to practically live any hit at full health regardless if its SE or not. All you need to do is get it in on on its weaknesses (which it has quite a few so its not too hard to setup) and wreck the opposing team at +2. Sucks that it does not get Speed boosting move or Baton Pass, but it still has a usable Speed stat to pull this off imo.

Really like the direction SuMo Ubers is heading and can't wait to try it out! Ultre Beasts like Pheromosa and Xuxitree also seem to be quite interesting and Zygarde Complete also seems very powerful as well.

Edit: the para nerf may also allow GeoXern to outspeed Pdon after a boost now which is also very interesting.
 
#8
How is stall supposed to beat Calm Mind Lunala?
I don't think Stall HAS a way to beat it, not without going the way of ORAS OU Stall and running Darkrai or something to try and revenge kill it... Or just watch as Stall dies this generation, and Ubers becomes only offensive-based.

Also, RIP Latis in Ubers. Now that you have no use, Palkia gets some minor breathing room, though Primal Groudon and Xerneas still ruin its day. This is going to be a very interesting Ubers.
 
#10
Just curious if Toxapex should be considered for Ubers. It has 50/152/142 bulk, but gets Regenerator and a poisonous version of Spiky Shield, as well as an ability that makes every hit on a poisoned foe a crit.
 
#11
The support for Terrains are a nice addition to the field mechanics of Sun and Moon, but one of the four stands out to me in terms of functioning in the Ubers metagame:

Tapu Lele seems like a lot of fun and has a huge asset to the tier thanks to Psychic Surge. Negating all priority on the field for 5 turns is amazing for a lot of sweepers and Pokemon that are susceptible to priority, and also gives Lele the niche of being one of the best soft Ekiller checks in the tier by proxy. Though it kind of sucks that only grounded Pokemon are protected from priority, the ability to block it regardless is a massive boon to offensive teams. Tapu Lele isn't even that bad of a Pokemon anyways; it speed ties with Rayquaza, can soft check physical variants of Giratina-O (disregarding Shadow Force and Hex variants, LO Moonblast always OHKOs) and has a decent 130 Special Attack stat along with the STAB boost from Psychic Terrain. Also it gets Aromatherapy, so more clerics are always nice.

A set like this might be a good start:
Tapu Lele @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf / Choice Specs / Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball (for kind of not being dicked on by Lunala) / Aromatherapy

A Pokemon that benefits so well from Tapu Lele that it's borderline criminal is Deoxys-A. Removing the major flaw of dying to any form of priority whatsoever and the boost from Psychic Terrain turns Deo-A into even more of a monster that is relatively difficult to revenge kill as long as the terrain is up. There are very few things that can avoid the 2HKO from Rash LO Psycho Boost, the most notable being Lugia and Solgaleo, otherwise something is either going to die or be seriously dented. Mewtwo also works well with Lele, as Mega Mewtwo Y greatly benefits from its low Defense being shielded from priority, and Mega Mewtwo X can make checking Ekiller even easier if it gets in safely. Psychic spam might be a viable team with this guardian in the foreseeable future, and I do think Tapu Lele will make an impact in Ubers.


Otherwise, the Mega buff is highly beneficial to basically every Mega Evolution in the tier bar Sableye which loses the Prankster buff upon Mega Evolving. Diancie no longer has to run Protect, and Lucario isn't as reliant on Sticky Web as it was last gen, leaving its ability to get in safely being the main hurdle. Salamence absolutely loves this change, and the small decrease in power for -ate abilities doesn't deter it too much. As a whole, along with the cover legendaries being very good and Darkrai being banished to the depths of hell makes me extremely excited for this generation's metagame.
 
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Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
#12
is marshadow available to use even though the ways of getting legit are impossible rn. it says its notable but thats a bit unclear as if its usable
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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Moderator
#13
Dugtrio @ Groundium Z
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Whatever
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Memento
- Stealth Rock

Honestly the last 3 moves are kinda whatever. The point of this is that with the introduction of Z moves and Dugtrio's base Attack buff, it now has enough power to break down a few Pokemon. Specifically...

252+ Atk Dugtrio Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 510-600 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dugtrio Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 356-420 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

It also does ~70% to Xerneas

Unfortunately it's probably useless after that, so go press Memento or something. However, the ability to remove those two aforementioned Pokemon may at least give it a niche.
 
#15
Otherwise, the Mega buff is highly beneficial to basically every Mega Evolution in the tier bar Sableye which loses the Prankster buff upon Mega Evolving. Diancie no longer has to run Protect, and Lucario isn't as reliant on Sticky Web as it was last gen, leaving its ability to get in safely being the main hurdle. Salamence absolutely loves this change, and the small decrease in power for -ate abilities doesn't deter it too much. As a whole, along with the cover legendaries being very good and Darkrai being banished to the depths of hell makes me extremely excited for this generation's metagame
I think it's still worth it to run Protect on Diance, if only so that you can get it to Mega Evolve from turn 1 against leads like support Groudon or Excadrill to get Magic Bounce.
 
#16
****ing RIP in pieces AG Darkrai!

Will Tapu Lele be good enough to stop Extremekiller spam? Probably not, but I betcha its the death of Klefki in AG. (And the masses rejoiced with a thundering voice)

Too bad both Solgaleo and Lunala get bopped by E-Killer coverage, though Solgaleo might actually work as a check. I wonder if a set with a ground-resist berry would be viable? Either way, Solgaleo is gonna be a great check to GeoXern, which is very welcome.

It's almost surreal to see Soul Dew nerfed to infinity after all these years. Who would have ever thought you'd actually be considering their mega forms as better than the Soul Dew versions?

Also LOOOL at the stats on Zygarde Complete, what a total joke. Give the mon +100 more BST to work with, but put it ALL into an HP stat that already has to be halved before it can even change form...seriously what was Game Freak thinking? Were they just scared of making Mega Rayquaza 2, so they went for something obviously sucky?
I know this is ubers not AG but I still need somewhere to talk
 
#17
How is stall supposed to beat Calm Mind Lunala?
I don't think Stall HAS a way to beat it, not without going the way of ORAS OU Stall and running Darkrai or something to try and revenge kill it... Or just watch as Stall dies this generation, and Ubers becomes only offensive-based.
Arceus-Dark, Yveltal, Pursuit Users, Mega Sableye+Chansey etc.

Going into SuMo from ORAS, Solgaleo and Dark Void nerf is definitely one of the biggest changes. Luckily offensive teams won't have to deal with the stupid bullshit that was Xerneas and being forced to run Ekiller/Klefki or play safely with P-Don. I'm looking forward to Z Splash+3 Attacks and CB sets. Lunala is cool specs user but it's 4x weakness to dark and ghost is kinda meh, and it doesn't have impressive stats to stand out either. Dunno about UBs and Psychic Terrain will be hella fun.
 
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#18
Arceus-Dark, Yveltal, Pursuit Users, Mega Sableye+Chansey etc.
If Lunala isn't choiced, they can't come in safely without risk for fear of Moonblast. Its not a sure kill with Shadow Shield up making using Pursuit very 50/50 as Lunala can just stay in and Moonblast you.

it also gets Psyshock for Chansey, tho that still doesn't do much. Its a nice stop to Lunalas rampage through stall, but its also a temporary one, as when Chansey dies Lunala can run straight through stall with no fear.

Stall really needs an offensive Dark Mon just for Lunala to have a shot of existing.
 
#19
With the right support, Kommmo-o is pretty good. I think it might only be OU though. The set I've been messing with is
Kommo-o @ Salac Berry
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Reversal
- Shadow Claw
sub-drum up, get the speed boost which he really doesn't need a lot of the time because tons of ubers mons are slow, and sweep. Soundproof protects you from some moves that could break your sub like hyper voice because you don't want to be taking any extra damage after you've set up a drum.
Good partners to this set are steel types that can remove Fairy and Dragon types, such as Magearna and Solgalio. Strong wallbreakers such as Deoxys-A can break down physical walls such as P-Don and Mega-Mence that prevent the sweep. A Psychic terrain setter such as Topu-Lel or Mewnium-z Mew are also useful to keep out the priority that can prematurely break the sub.
 
#20
If Lunala isn't choiced, they can't come in safely without risk for fear of Moonblast. Its not a sure kill with Shadow Shield up making using Pursuit very 50/50 as Lunala can just stay in and Moonblast you.

it also gets Psyshock for Chansey, tho that still doesn't do much. Its a nice stop to Lunalas rampage through stall, but its also a temporary one, as when Chansey dies Lunala can run straight through stall with no fear.

Stall really needs an offensive Dark Mon just for Lunala to have a shot of existing.
What kind of argument is if Chansey dies, Lunala can run straight through stall lmao. Not letting a counter die is SUPPOSED TO BE an essential part of stall's strategy. If it's the CM sweeper set with like Roost and Sub then you can easily exploit the lack of coverage using the mons I mentioned. If it's CM+3 attacks for some odd reason you can still easily play around it by using status and the huge number of overly bulky mons with recovery that the Uber tier has to offer. Even at +1 Max SpAtk, Lunala doesn't 1 shot P-Ogre, Defensive P-Don, Arceus-Formes, SpDef Yveltal etc, Heck, SpDef Yveltal is basically a hard counter for any Lunala as long as you don't come in on a Specs Moonblast. PhyDef Ho-oh shits on Lunala too, so you can add Ho-Oh to the list of mons I originally mentioned. Oh and, you have Arceus-Dark already as the offensive Dark type you mentioned, SpDef MSab is there too. Just take a hit and Knock Off. lol

Stall's imaginary problems aside, I'm more interested in the buff to initially slow Megas. CM Diance, Offensive M-Mence running less speed and Adamant Mega Lucario are a few ones I can think off. And none of the UBs seem particularly good in Ubers, except maybe Pheromosa which is just a weaker Deoxys-A. Thoughts?
 
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#21
say hello to Kartana!

The good:
3rd highest attack stat in the game at 181 (higher then deoxys-attack and primal groudon)
Solid speed stat at 109
Pretty solid physical defense
Decent attacking type in Grass, with coverage options Sacred Sword, Night Slash, or X-Scissor
Swords dance!

The bad:
Best steel STAB is only 70 base power
Less Special Defense than Zubat
Easy to revenge kill with literally any fire move
59 base hp means it's physical bulk is also limited

what do you guys think?

EDIT: 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 246-291 (118.8 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
--------------------------
on other changes:
xerneas might be harder to check now, as even paralyzed just the regular speed it would have.
gengar will have a harder time finding time to mega-evolve, but choiced ground moves weren't that common anyway.
RIP darkrai, would have enjoyed the prankster nerf too.
That calc of leaf blade vs pdon is actually a level 50 pdon, level 100 it would do this much:
252 Atk Ferrothorn Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 126-148 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- 72.5% chance to 3HKO
Just thought id let u know :3
Ok so wanted to talk about cover legends and how I feel they would impact the metagame:



Solgaleo
So when I first saw this thing I must admit I was not impressed with its Steel/Psychic typing due to the fact that it is weak to many common offensive types in the Ubers metagame such as Ground, Fire, and Dark, and thus I felt it would not make too much of an impact. However, when I saw its stats I immediately when't back on my previous thoughts due to how good its stats were spread in particular in its HP, Atk, and Defense. It also possesses a reasonable 97 Speed which lets it outspeed Rayquaza and below which is also very respectable. Here are a few sets I thought of:

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 212 HP / 152 Atk / 144 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun
- Zen Headbutt
- Flare Blitz / Earthquake


Solgaleo has the luxury of resisting Fairy which is already a huge bonus to it due to the abundance and volatility of Geomancy Xerneas. This EV Spread exactly helps Solgaelo avoid the 2HKO from a +2 Focus Blast and be able to OHKO Xerneas in return with Sunsteel Strike. It also gets good coverage in Flare Blitz and Earthquake which helps it beat Steel and Fire types respectably and reliable recovery in Morning Sun which is always nice, especially if it uses it when Primal Groudon switches into it.

Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock
- Morning Sun


This set turns Solgaleo into a nice bulky win condiiton with Calm Mind boosts. It is really tanky and CM helps it boost its lowest stat in Special Defense. Full Metal Body also prevents stat drops which is also very nice and makes it even more difficult to deal with.

Solgaleo @ Choice Band
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz


This set is pretty straightforward as it allows Solgaleo to hit like a truck with a Choice Band equipped. Steel/Psychic/Fire/Ground coverage is unresisted iirc. Ya not much else to say, I can really see this set be popular.



Lunala
Lunala had also intrigued me with its pretty unique Ghost/Psychic typing and also made me mroe hyped when I saw its stats. Its basically like Solgaleo, but it trades its Attack to be more Specially inclined and it is more Specially bulky as well. Although it is x4 weak to Pursuit which does hamper it, I still feel that it will make an impact to the meta due to its great offensive typing and the coverage options it gets which compliments its STABs.

Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast


This is the first set I thought of when I saw its movepool. Legit nothing could switch into this thing besides bulky special walls like Blissey really. Ghost/Psychic is just so good offensively and Moonblast and Focus Blast just compliment this even further. Really nothing else to add.

Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Moongeist Beam
- Substitute
- Roost


This is another set I thought of when I saw its ability which is basically Multiscale. It basically could setup with its amazing bulk with its ability. Both of its STABs have immunities so maybe another coverage option would be better but the rest is really good.

Lunala @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 28 HP / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam/Roost
- Moonblast


Ok this might be a meme set but hear me out. Shadow Shield allows it to practically live any hit at full health regardless if its SE or not. All you need to do is get it in on on its weaknesses (which it has quite a few so its not too hard to setup) and wreck the opposing team at +2. Sucks that it does not get Speed boosting move or Baton Pass, but it still has a usable Speed stat to pull this off imo.

Really like the direction SuMo Ubers is heading and can't wait to try it out! Ultre Beasts like Pheromosa and Xuxitree also seem to be quite interesting and Zygarde Complete also seems very powerful as well.

Edit: the para nerf may also allow GeoXern to outspeed Pdon after a boost now which is also very interesting.
I think will-o-wisp is a cool move on Lunala, despite the burn nerf the fact that it can neuter physical darks and pursuiters for the rest of the game (unless they have heal bell or something, rip) is a pretty cool trait imo. i mean to give you some perspective Lunala with wisp and roost outstalls bandtar, perhaps the most brutal pursuit trapper in the game.
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Crunch vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Multiscale Hoopa: 202-238 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Defensive Lunala with wisp could be a neat alternative to Lugia.
Now that Darkrai has faded into irrelevancy the frequency of items like lum berry will probably decrease, which is only good news for Lunala.
 

Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
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#22
Hypnosis Gengar is unbelievably threatening right now. Honestly the buff Gengar got in no longer being forced to run Protect made is so much better than it was in ORAS, where it's already damn good. The extra moveslot for something like Sub or one of Sludge Wave or Focus Blast makes this so much harder to deal with, and unlike Darkrai in the past you cant even switch out into your check with Gengar, you've just got to hope for misses. There was talk in the skype group about this potentially being a big problem and I feel it's worth potentially looking in to. What can actually deal with this other than Max HP mega TTar with sleep talk?

E: Not saying we should necessarily look into banning it, however there isn't much that can actually deal with it successfully, let alone without being a burden on the rest of the team.
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#23
I would just like to point out that Mega Gar actually got slightly nerfed as spamming Destiny Bond is no longer as effective. HexGar sets are still gonna be really potent, but AoA +Dbond can be somewhat dealt with now with proper prediction from the opponent.
 
#24
not like mgar should be spamming dbond in the first place.. mgar can easily afford to run sub/hypno or more attacks to easily remove plenty of things and is probably gonna be the best mon in the tier. I'm excited to see psychic terrain + nasty plot deo a lmaoo
 
#25
ScarfTana Set Idea

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Psycho Cut

With Max Atk evs, it also gets the beast boost to attack. Eventually, with its powerful stab, great defense against common priority moves, such as espeed and sucker punch, and its scarf, it sweeps teams. This mon is absolutely monsterous. All you really need is its stabs, and 2 fill-in moves. It really only needs its stab attacks.

HOW TO USE:

Use it as a revenge killer, once its viable counters (meaning p-don, extremely bulky mons that resist stab, special/fire type sash users, etc.) are gone. After pdon is gone, feel free to send it in on any mon that it hits supereffectively with its STABs. Once it K.O.s that mon, it is over.

TEAM SUPPORT OPTIONS:

-Support Primal-Groudon

Support Primal Groudon can help get rocks on the field to beat sash users, and threaten other p-dons. This is one of the best partners to ScarfTana. It is recommended to run enough speed that it can outspeed other p-don sets, yet enough bulk and power that it can kill the p-dons.

-Arceus-Ground

As one of the top pdon checks in the meta (for gen 6, still don't know enough about gen 7), this mon is a very solid partner to ScarfTana. After P-Don is dead, Arceus-Ground can use SD to be used to draw in its checks. After hitting its checks hard once, A-G goes down, and many of Arc-G's checks are weak to ScarfTana's STABs, which make it an even better teammate.

IF I MISSED ANYTHING

Feel free to reply with move ideas, other partner ideas, etc. The ones I see are good I will put on.

Thanks! Hope everyone has success with the set!

-The Rage Knightt