Metagame SM Ubers Sets Discussion

[Freeroamer]

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Pursuit

Neither of these sets are originally mine the first has been used sporadically in the past while Sweep posted about Pursuit Deo-A in SPL discussion last year but this is something I've been using to counteract Gengar which I think is a dumb piece of shit honestly. There's probably more optimal spreads for both but this works ok. Nothing on my team lets Gengar sub initially so I go to Ho-oh on the Hypnosis as it mega evolves and do my utmost to prevent it retaining a sub assuming it beats Ho-oh. Life Orb is used over Choice Band because locking into Sleep Talk is detrimental if you wake up early or Gengar misses a load of Hypnos. Once it beats Ho-oh if it doesn't have a sub Deo comes in and Pursuits to get it out of the game. If Gar stays in Pursuit OHKOes after SR and 1 sub worth of damage, obviously it OHKOes if gar switches out. This obviously relies on SR not being up cos if it is the strategy becomes moot so maybe using Stalk Yvel is better or smth idk. I honestly think Gengar is absolutely absurd this generation thanks to it's initial speed and much less reliance on Protect so I've been trying to think outside the box for creative ways to counteract it, particularly the SubHypno set. Pursuit still has a niche in that it removes Lunala from the game which can be useful I guess, altho watch for Scarf. Does anyone else have anything they use in this fashion?

 

[oversway]

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic
- Substitute

this is another zygarde set I've found pretty effective, sub allows you to enter 100% forme more reliably and toxic is there to hit stuff like bulky arc formes and ygod. Dragon Tail allows you to phaze out non-fairy setup sweepers (notably ekiller) and the EVs are to outspeed most pdon before a boost. thousand arrows notably hits ho-oh and allows you to avoid getting walled by bronzong. Alternatively 220 evs in Defense can be used to always live +2 pblades from max attack pdon from full while in 50% forme.

calcs

+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Zygarde: 355-418 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aura Break Zygarde: 148-175 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Zygarde: 307-363 (73 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Zygarde: 239-282 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (100% forme)
+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Zygarde: 373-439 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (100% forme)

this set lacks reliable recovery so it shouldn't be switching into everything but when paired with another physical wall like waterceus and something to deal with psychics and fairies it becomes pretty difficult to break .

 

[Vengeance417]

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 16 SpA / 236 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- whatever you want tbh

This is mostly theorymon for me atm, but given Mega Gengar's Destiny Bond nerf and Lunala's presence, Toxic + Shadow Ball Blissey might actually put in work. Ice Beam Blissey cannot break Mega Gengar's sub while Shadow Ball can, which puts pressure on the Ghost type. Meanwhile, CM Lunala sets are put on a timer with Toxic and Shadow Ball is 4x effective towards it. If Lunala's running a SubCM set, Blissey's Shadow Ball can break +1 Lunala's subs if they're running max HP with the 16 SpA investment on Blissey.

 

[Perry]

why would u ever run lefties on blissey tho? blissey niche is being able to run shed shell and run away out of gar's hypno to something like mega sab, so this is very ugh tbh

 

[mags]

Xurkitree @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

This mons moveset sucks a ton but you only need dazzlegleam and gknot for coverage. This mon can destroy teams with the help of webs. Most of the time you will be getting boosts from beast boost but the tail glow is there just so you don't get walled by blobs and cm arcs and lunala. Just a fun mon on webs!! idek what it looks like tho lmaooo

 

[Highlord]

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Glare
- Coil
- Substitute

Glare is the crux of the set crippling checks like Xerneas who might switch in. Free subs are inevitable with glare, and Coil makes the subs impossible to break from the physical end of the spectrum, while providing some extra power. Thousand Arrows is STAB with not too many resists in Ubers. The set works best when starting in front of a Primal Groudon or Solgaleo. Although, the EV spread could use some tweaking at the moment.

 

[SuperWumbology]

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nature's Madness
- Volt Switch

Ok so far I haven't been successful testing with this mon yet since my teambuilding is terrible and I haven't hit a single Thunder yet but I think Koko has some potential on VoltTurn cores. Electric Terrain isn't nearly as useful as Psychic Terrain, but cancelling other terrains is cool and preventing HypnoHex MGar bs along with blocking RestTalkers for 5 turns is pretty solid imo. What's nice about Koko's moveset is Nature's Madness is quite powerful against balance and all of Koko's hard stops (PDon is the primary offender), and halving its counter's HP is invaluable for other sweepers or cleaners. LO Thunder in Elec Terrain is obv powerful, and Volt Switch does nice damage and is useful for a fast mon. Dazzling Gleam can probably be switched out for something else like Taunt, Roost or GK since 95 SpA isn't really doing much for non-Elec moves.

 

[Ash and Charizard]

Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This Solgaleo set is very Unique than Others. splash + normalium Z boosts its Attack by +3. It is a nightmare to stall and it can work easily with Sticky Web Support ( Shuckle Is the Best ones ). Also Pair it with a CM Wisp Recover Darkceus set for more Coverage.

 

[Ray713]

Z-Geomancy + Ingrain Xerneas

Xerneas @ Fairium Z
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Ingrain

Although Z-Geomancy requires the user to charge, but in the same turn it boost all 5 stats giving Xerneas extra bulk to easily allow Geomancy to boost its SpA, SpD and Spe at +2. Rest is for curing status besides being the only method of recovery. Ingrain prevents Xerneas from being forced out from the likes of its checks: Roar PDon, Whirlwind Lugia, and at the same time helps alleviate residual damage which is good as Thunder Wave is nerfed in S&M making a phazing move overall a better alternative to check Xerneas.

248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD along with the stat boosts gives Xerneas an enormous bulk. No SpA EVs is needed, besides Moonblast still hits almost just as hard as the normal Geomancy set when at +2.

 

[oversway]

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Poison Jab

this is the set I've been using which has Ice Beam and Poison Jab to hit mence and fairies but the mon itself doesn't have much offensive utility. In terms of offensive stats it's like a worse Deo-A. It has no defensive utility, and a Fighting/Bug typing means Ghost-types switch in on it all day. Its coverage to account for these weaknesses is virtually nonexistant. There's also the prominence of Mega Gengar so when up against a team with it you either need to click U-turn every turn or get trapped and KOed. As of now I'm only finding it effective on offense, pairing it with something like Deo-A can be effective in dealing with MGar since you can U-turn into Deo and Pursuit it.

 

[Ash and Charizard]

This is my another new set,

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Eruption
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power

This set is Broken in this gen. After a Rock Polish no one can Out speed and Damage us. We can just Sweep them with Eruption. Both Eruption and Earth power is a Powerful Same Type Attack bonus ( STAB ) For Primal groudon . HP - Ice is to deal with Dragon Mons that No one will expect. It can just sweep anything.

 

[Ray713]

Z-Splash + Flame Charge Solgaleo

Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Zen Headbutt / Earthquake
- Splash
- Flame Charge

This set may look gimmicky but it has potential for Solgaleo to function as physical sweeper or you can call it the Double Dance set. Like Power Herb GeoXern you can only set up once. Flame Charge raise its speed and destroy Steel types at +3 Atk which evens OHKOs Physically Defensive Skarmory after rocks, Zen Headbutt OHKOs Ho-Oh at +3, you can run Earthquake to OHKO PDon which Sunsteel Strike KOs Ho-Oh after rocks at +3 Atk however its gets walled by Waterceus.

252 in +Atk to smash through bulky mons, 252 in Spe to outspeed anything in the 95 Base Speed meta. You can also run Jolly nature like to outspeed +Speed Rayquaza at the cost of some power.

 

[shrang]

Kartana @ Salac Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 168 HP / 156 Atk / 184 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Substitute
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword

Fun set. Problem with Kartana is that it's not quite fast enough and it pretty much dies to any special attack. Its Steel-typing + good Defense is nice for tanking priority though, which is why Salac Berry does wonders for this mon. EVs are there to guarantee survival of Jolly LO Ekiller's ES at 25%. Speed is there to outspeed +ve Palkia (isn't that important, but you need to outspeed +ve 99s, and why the fuck not just add 8 EVs to outspeed Palk as well while you're at it). Remaining Attack EVs give you the equivalent of a base 150 Attack mon. SD is tempting to have, but is ultimately worse off since Kartana needs all the coverage it can get, plus if you get some kills you get boosts with that anyway.

 

[Annabeth]

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability : Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Nature: Sassy / Relaxed
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast

In my opinion, this is the new Great Wall thanks to its amazing typing : no SR weakness, spikes immunity, poison immunity, incredible resistances and few weaknesses.
Leech Seed is amazing on this set, both for durability and as a support tool for bulky offense teams.

This set check the majority of the most dangerous sweepers in the meta from both side of the spectrum : Mega-Salamence, Rayquaza, Arceus-normal, Xerneas, Deoxys-attack, Mewtwo, Kartana, Lunala, Solgaleo, etc...

So yeah, Primal-Groudon and Ho-oh (especially if no SR) can come in freely, but Leech Seed on the switch will slowly hurt Primal-Groudon and will make Ho-oh much easier to handle.

Team options :
Fully physically defensive Arceus-Water is an amazing partner for Celesteela, as it can easily check both Primal-Groudon and Ho-oh quite easily, especially when Leech Seed is on.
Primal-Groudon is a good partner too, for electric immunity, fire resistance, SR support for Ho-oh and because it loves Leech Seed support.

 

[oversway]

I've used Celesteela a bit and it having no reliable recovery outside of Leftovers really hurts it. Mega Salamence sets up on Celesteela all day and Rayquaza murks it with V-Create. The only things I could see it dealing with are Xerneas and possibly Mewtwo if not carrying Fire Blast. In order to make it more effective Protect should be replaced with Toxic which at least allows you to put setup sweepers on a timer. Here are some calcs for reference:

252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 489-577 (122.8 - 144.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Solgaleo Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 176-208 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO (this is before any boosts from items)
+2 0 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 187-221 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO (without any attack investment or boosts from items)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 161-191 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (if it has recover you click x)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 195-231 (48.9 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

 

[PShine]

I haven't been playing Ubers, but the Tapus must be quite helpful, right? I can think of, say, Koko+Zekrom+Kyogre, Bulu+Primal Groudon, Lele+Deoxys-A...

 

[Annabeth]

I've used Celesteela a bit and it having no reliable recovery outside of Leftovers really hurts it. Mega Salamence sets up on Celesteela all day and Rayquaza murks it with V-Create. The only things I could see it dealing with are Xerneas and possibly Mewtwo if not carrying Fire Blast. In order to make it more effective Protect should be replaced with Toxic which at least allows you to put setup sweepers on a timer. Here are some calcs for reference:

252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 489-577 (122.8 - 144.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Solgaleo Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 176-208 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO (this is before any boosts from items)
+2 0 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 187-221 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO (without any attack investment or boosts from items)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 161-191 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (if it has recover you click x)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Celesteela: 195-231 (48.9 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

40% or 50% after setup when you can take back 37,5% every two turns with Leech Seed/Protect is not a problem.
In my previous games, Mega-Salamence couldn't really set up as Heavy Slam + Leech Seed is doing about 40/45% and I generally got the kill with a crit. I think it's about the same with Arceus-normal if it has Recover.
Anyway, Toxik is definitely an option over Protect or Fire Blast and you can run more defense if you want.

I don't know if Mewtwo can bruteforce this Celesteela even with Fire Blast. Need to do more calcs and testing probably.

 

[oversway]

252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Celesteela: 281-333 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So you're reasoning is just "it doesn't beat it 1v1 because I can crit it" which is not only faulty but goes against the defintion of a check.

 

[Annabeth]

252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Celesteela: 281-333 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So you're reasoning is just "it doesn't beat it 1v1 because I can crit it" which is not only faulty but goes against the defintion of a check.

You're right, I'm changing my set :
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability : Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Nature: Relaxed
- Leech Seed
- Toxik
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast

This way I can check Ekiller, Mega-Mence, Solgaleo, Kartana more effectively.
This is not a reliable check for Xerneas anymore however, even if it can help in emergency. Toxik is also bad for most of its switch-ins so it's nice to have.

I'm trying to guess if an offensive set could work in ubers.

 

[Transcendent God Champion]

The Great Pokémon Master's Heavenly Sun-Eating Lion

SolgaLeomon (Solgaleo) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Sunsteel Strike
- Wild Charge

To make a statement of fairness, Solgaleo is overall an extremely underwhelming Pokémon in my opinion. However, I do believe that its Choice Scarf set has a very small niche in specific stall teams, due to its possession of the following qualities:

1. It can revenge-kill Mega Lucario, a Pokémon which completely decimates almost any stall team without Zygarde-Complete, Will-O-Wisp Giratina or Arceus-Ground, the last of which being extremely hard to justify using in a stall team, since such teams almost always need Arceus-Dark in order to handle Lunala.
2. It prevents a stall team from being swept by a Geomancy + Rest Xerneas if it is the opponent's last Pokémon.
3. It outruns Mega Gengar, which is always nice for a stall team. Since not many people expect Solgaleo, especially one used in a stall team to hold a Choice Scarf, it can even surprise-kill the opponent's Mega Gengar early on in a battle, as can be seen in this replay. This gives the stall team a much easier time for the rest of the battle, as its user can freely utilize their Clefable and other Pokémon which are otherwise easily trapped and eliminated by the Shadow Pokémon.
4. It can knock out Ho-Oh and Primal Kyogre with Wild Charge after they have taken some damage, which can be nice as these two Pokémon threaten stall somewhat.
5. It can revenge-kill fast Pokémon which normally give stall trouble, such as Deoxys-A and weakened Mewtwo, which is great especially if they have Taunt.

 

[mags]

Xurkitree @ Psychium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Tail Glow
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot

Another xurkitree set I've been using. Zmove hypno sleeps a target and will raise xurkitree's speed. If hypno hits you will be able to tailglow and then hopefully sweep. After tailglow the spa will be so high and tbolt/gknot is good enough coverage with such a high spa. Since this raises speed it's a set that works without webs
Replay vs zane showcasing how dangerous this can be
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankubers-482060073

Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Thunder
- Recover

Arceus ice is still a promising cm arc in sumo but the only problem is you kind of want fireblast for solg and thunder for pogre who are both common checks. I've seen a lot of ygod/zygarde and a decent amount of mmence running around so it's always nice to have a stong ice stab. The reason why I tried building around this is because in the ubers room a few people were saying kyurem white got better from sumo

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thousand Arrows

Between all of the friendly matches I've had, stall is being used a lot more than offense. After 1 dd zygarde will not be sweeping but this thing is so bulky if you remove fairies and bulky waters this thing can pretty much setup on almost the whole tier. Rest and sleeptalk so you can continue to setup and attack while sleeping. Mgar is nice with this so you can remove fairyceus/xern/waterceus.

 

[Freeroamer]

Arceus @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance

Not exactly reinventing the metagame here, but it brings up an interesting point. This gen, the Swords Dance Arceus(Normal, Ghost and Ground) really have a toss up to whether they run a z crystal compared to their usual items, especially Ground and Ghost. For those Arceus formes they have to consider whether they'd like the smaller boost from the plate consistently or the enormous power boost from the crystal when breaking. In practice on Groundceus I've found I prefer the crystal boost when coming up vs things like Arc-Water balances because it just gives it the little bit of initiative it sometimes needs to start breaking these teams, and most importantly of all it can allow it to straight up blow past these mons without taking a hit or status in the process.

+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- Adjusted for EQ Z move power, removed Earth Plate.

+2 252 Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 244-288 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock <- standard SD Groundceus

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 102-121 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 123-145 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock <- Difference in damage is definitely noticeable without the plate so that's where calcing vs relevant targets and assessing tradeoff comes in

 

[skies]

Arceus can only hold Z Crystals as a Normal-type unless I'm mistaken, as it requires the plate to become a different type (unless Z Crystals also work for that now).

 

[oversway]

Oranguru @ Assault Vest
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

beats gar and psychic spam what more do you need

 

[Jibaku]

Arceus can only hold Z Crystals as a Normal-type unless I'm mistaken, as it requires the plate to become a different type (unless Z Crystals also work for that now).

Z-crystals change Arceus's forme (but not judgment)


Also Muk whacks Psychic spam and Gar better than oranguru, especially since it gets Pursuit